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Best Coordinator (1 Viewer)

Koya

Koya

Footballguy
Back when all Martz had to do was gameplan, strategize and build tactics to score, guy was a genius. He designed an offense that was amongst the best to ever grace the NFL - and he did it with Kurt Warner at QB... not exactly Dan Marino back there, except for his years with the Rams in Martz' offense.Fast foward to Martz being head coach, and his many many weaknesses FAR overcame his schematic (sp?) genius. Far too much ego. Loss of brain in play calling. Just awful game management (time management and time outs for example) overall. Not a coach to rally the players either, Martz went from Genius to fool while going from OC to HC.Can anyone else think of a similar situation elsewhere? Back with the Browns, Belichick would have been a candidate for this, but wow, has he shown himself to be HC capable since then. What coaches were great coordinators, but those skills simply did not translate to HC for them?

 
Wade PhillipsHerm EdwardsPhil BengstonI would have added Ray Rhodes until I saw the idiotic things he did as DC here in DEN.

 
Greg Williams, though he may still pan out, jury is out.Butch Davis, great DC, good college coach, failed miserably in ClevelandMike Shanahan is similar to Belichick in that he failed in his first HC attempt in Oakland.Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.Pete Carroll, don't laugh. He was a highly regarded assistant before getting HC job with the Jets, where he failed. Another candidate who looks like he could still be a very good NFL head coach, but we may not know for a while.Possibly Mike Mularkey, too.There are others, those just come to mind immediately.

 
Les Steckel failed miserably as HC for the Vikes, but is/was regarded as a great OC.

 
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When Andy Reid is beating up on the dreck of the NFC with All-Pro laden teams, he's very good. When he needs to actually coach in a game, he seems to get his rather large rear end handed to him by the opposing coach.Personally I think he is the most over-rated coach in the NFL. He's a very good talent evaluator, he surrounds himself with top coordinators...but when it comes to coaching...forget it.

 
Back when all Martz had to do was gameplan, strategize and build tactics to score, guy was a genius. He designed an offense that was amongst the best to ever grace the NFL - and he did it with Kurt Warner at QB... not exactly Dan Marino back there, except for his years with the Rams in Martz' offense.

Fast foward to Martz being head coach, and his many many weaknesses FAR overcame his schematic (sp?) genius. Far too much ego. Loss of brain in play calling. Just awful game management (time management and time outs for example) overall. Not a coach to rally the players either, Martz went from Genius to fool while going from OC to HC.

Can anyone else think of a similar situation elsewhere? Back with the Browns, Belichick would have been a candidate for this, but wow, has he shown himself to be HC capable since then.

What coaches were great coordinators, but those skills simply did not translate to HC for them?
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:rolleyes: Reading this, youd think the Rams hadnt gone to the playoffs multiple times under Martz,let alone a Super Bowl.

Martz has his downside, but hes still one of the best HEAD COACHes in the league.

 
Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.
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I think he's the winner.
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Agreed; I thought the thread was going to be about Norv.wandstadt might be in his league; highly regarded DC, failed 2x as HC.

 
Koya, still trying to defend your decision to draft Martz as your OC in the FFA all-time draft?Just kidding. I agree. I think much of the criticism is a little overboard.

 
Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.
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I think he's the winner.
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I have to disagree. I think he's still living off of his dozen-year rep as the savior of the Cowboys offense and the mentor to Troy Aikman. As time has gone on, he's failed both at a combined 9 seasons as head coach, and 2 additional stints as offensive coordinator at both San Diego and Miami. As a result I'm even wondering whether the success in Dallas was due to him, or simply due to having overwhelmingly good talent, particularly o nthe line. Where exactly are his credentials for being a "very good OC?"
 
Richie Petitbon :yes:
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:goodposting: Gibbs, like many other successful head coaches, has had a good number of guys go on to coach elsewhere. None have succeeded. Petitibone is one, but he also had Dan Henning and Joe Bugel.

Was Rich Kotite ever a coordinator?

How about Ray Handley?

 
Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.
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I think he's the winner.
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I have to disagree. I think he's still living off of his dozen-year rep as the savior of the Cowboys offense and the mentor to Troy Aikman. As time has gone on, he's failed both at a combined 9 seasons as head coach, and 2 additional stints as offensive coordinator at both San Diego and Miami. As a result I'm even wondering whether the success in Dallas was due to him, or simply due to having overwhelmingly good talent, particularly o nthe line. Where exactly are his credentials for being a "very good OC?"
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Well his offenses (when OC) tend to be the among the best in rushing.
 
Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.
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I think he's the winner.
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I have to disagree. I think he's still living off of his dozen-year rep as the savior of the Cowboys offense and the mentor to Troy Aikman. As time has gone on, he's failed both at a combined 9 seasons as head coach, and 2 additional stints as offensive coordinator at both San Diego and Miami. As a result I'm even wondering whether the success in Dallas was due to him, or simply due to having overwhelmingly good talent, particularly o nthe line. Where exactly are his credentials for being a "very good OC?"
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Well his offenses (when OC) tend to be the among the best in rushing.
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True, but of course his offenses also tend to have the most rushing attempts. The irony is that he's known as being a creative offensive mind, and yet he's not developed a single QB under him since Aikman (and I for one think Aikman would have been good without him), and his passing offenses have been hit or miss.

 
What? No mention of Mike Tice? I figured he'd be the hands down winner. He was an O-line coach and the brass figured he's make a damn good head coach for some reason. He inturn turned that franchise into an embarrassment. With that said, I'd like to also mention Jack Del Rio. Let me preface by saying I am a Jag fan. The guy was a good D-Coordinator (or was it just a LB coach?). He doesn't strike me as the kinda guy that has the smarts to take his team to the next level. His teams seem to play to the level of their competition (barely beating the 49'ers and Texans?!?!). They have been a disappointment the last few years. I don't think he can get his players up for big games. I fully expect the Jags to get booted out of the first round by the Pats who are a much better coached team. When you think about it, the talent level is fairly equal, but the game this Saturday will come down to coaching and Del Rio will get out coached again. Frustrating.

 
What? No mention of Mike Tice? I figured he'd be the hands down winner. He was an O-line coach and the brass figured he's make a damn good head coach for some reason. He inturn turned that franchise into an embarrassment.

With that said, I'd like to also mention Jack Del Rio. Let me preface by saying I am a Jag fan. The guy was a good D-Coordinator (or was it just a LB coach?). He doesn't strike me as the kinda guy that has the smarts to take his team to the next level. His teams seem to play to the level of their competition (barely beating the 49'ers and Texans?!?!). They have been a disappointment the last few years. I don't think he can get his players up for big games. I fully expect the Jags to get booted out of the first round by the Pats who are a much better coached team. When you think about it, the talent level is fairly equal, but the game this Saturday will come down to coaching and Del Rio will get out coached again. Frustrating.
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Getting his team to the divisional game last year and then almost making the playoffs despite losing their QB doesnt impress you?Hes not a great HC, but saying he's made them an embarrassment is a bit of an overstatement.

 
Greg Williams, though he may still pan out, jury is out.

Butch Davis, great DC, good college coach, failed miserably in Cleveland

Mike Shanahan is similar to Belichick in that he failed in his first HC attempt in Oakland.

Norv Turner, a case can be made for him. I think he's a very good OC, but he's proven to be a poor HC in two different stints.

Pete Carroll, don't laugh. He was a highly regarded assistant before getting HC job with the Jets, where he failed. Another candidate who looks like he could still be a very good NFL head coach, but we may not know for a while.

Possibly Mike Mularkey, too.

There are others, those just come to mind immediately.
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You guys did say they had to be at least "good" coordinators. If that's the case then, no, not Mularkey. The guy was all gimmicks at Pittsburgh. Mediocre at best.My pick would be for someone like Ryan, or Capers, or LeBeau, or Norv Turner, or Wandstat.

 
Herm Edwards

I would have added Ray Rhodes until I saw the idiotic things he did as DC here in DEN.
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Don't agree on Edwards. Bad game manager, sure... he did lead the Jets to 3 playoff appearances. Not many Jet's HCs have been able to do that.
 
Herm Edwards

I would have added Ray Rhodes until I saw the idiotic things he did as DC here in DEN.
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Don't agree on Edwards. Bad game manager, sure... he did lead the Jets to 3 playoff appearances. Not many Jet's HCs have been able to do that.
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Agreed. Herm's a better HC than DC (not that he ever was one) because he's much better at motivating the players than drawing up X's and O's.
 
Bill Arnsparger, Gilbride, Erhardt(sp?), Lebeau, Infante, Mornhinweg, Shula's son, Palmer...my fave Ray Perkins

 
Koya, still trying to defend your decision to draft Martz as your OC in the FFA all-time draft?

Just kidding. I agree. I think much of the criticism is a little overboard.
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:lmao: I am not sure what made me think of it. Just how much this year proves he sucks, and how it is demonstrated that good as Vermeil is, he would probably have zero championships without Martz.

But the guy is a putz of a HC.

 
Herm Edwards

I would have added Ray Rhodes until I saw the idiotic things he did as DC here in DEN.
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Don't agree on Edwards. Bad game manager, sure... he did lead the Jets to 3 playoff appearances. Not many Jet's HCs have been able to do that.
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Agreed. Herm's a better HC than DC (not that he ever was one) because he's much better at motivating the players than drawing up X's and O's.
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Unfortunately, he has trouble telling time.
 
Butch Davis in a landslide......Great personnel decisions too. Took his homer guys from the U and Florida but passed on C.Portis and E.Reed. Nice job. Hell of a coach too.He's a joke.

 
Butch Davis in a landslide......Great personnel decisions too. Took his homer guys from the U and Florida but passed on C.Portis and E.Reed. Nice job. Hell of a coach too.

He's a joke.
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I don't get the Butch Davis choice at all.He took over a Browns team that was complete garbage. They were ranked near the bottom of the NFL in almost every major category. In TWO years, WITHOUT a major upgrade in talent (because the drafts stunk), he took that team and put it in the playoffs at 9-7. Same crap OL, WRs, RBs, DL, secondary. 9-7!

After that season, the team was devastated with injuries in 2003 and 2004 until he finally resigned.

What we learned was that:

1. Given a talentless squad that can stay healthy, Butch Davis can push them to overachieve and get a winning record.

2. Given a talentless team devastated by injuries, Butch Davis will have a losing record.

If I were a GM, I'd be buying low with this guy. We know he's not good at selecting talent, so don't bring him in to do that. Bring him in to coach. Give him players. Let's see what he can do with a talented team. Given his track record, he'd probably push them to overachieve as well.

 
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Capers, hands down in my mind. People forget how good a DC he was, speaking of which, read in the local paper today that if Lewis gets a head coaching gig, Capers might have a reunion with Coughlin next season.

 
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