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Big Ben's early success leaves some concerned? (1 Viewer)

Family Matters

Footballguy
I read thsi and thought no way. Why would anyone assume that because he's had early success that it would be problematic? This is appears to be a case of "looking too hard" to find something wrong. The guy is good and they need to accept that for what he is. Clearly he's a cut above the others and he's proven that on the field. I think the last line explains the report as good as any:

Steelers | Some are concerned about Roethlisberger's early success

Sun, 19 Feb 2006 09:33:26 -0800

Bill Williamson, of the Denver Post, reports Pittsburgh Steelers QB Ben Roethlisberger's early success has some concerned that it might affect his work ethic. Many scouts believe he has several aspects of his game to improve before he becomes an elite quarterback, including accuracy and consistency. He is the youngest quarterback to win a Super Bowl and he raised some eyebrows when he turned down a Pro Bowl invite to go to the Grammy Awards.
Sounds to me like someone or some folks are a little jealous of what he's accomplished. Is there something more to this story than meets the eye? Are they sending Ben a message about how he's handles himself so far?
 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none. Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.

 

-OZ-

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Pro Football Talk was big on this theme last offseason. They believed Ben would come into 2005 with a big head and suffer the consequences. After a poor preseason many believed Roethlisberger was going to have the sophomore slump. Well as we know now, that didn't happen. Roethlisberger improved his game from 2004 and led the Steelers to a Super Bowl title.

This kid is a competitor and thrives on competition. The proof is his 27-4 career record as a starter, after only 2 NFL seasons. That drive isn't going to suddenly disappear.

 

GregR_2

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none. Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.

 

Biabreakable

Footballguy
I think Ben skipping the pro bowl (a meaningless game) because of his injured hand has a lot more to do with it than his "lack of work ethic" or desire to play the game.

Why risk it when he is still healing?

 

GregR_2

Footballguy
I think Ben skipping the pro bowl (a meaningless game) because of his injured hand has a lot more to do with it than his "lack of work ethic" or desire to play the game.

Why risk it when he is still healing?
If that is why he didn't go, it is indeed a lot better than the reason the article says.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
I think Ben skipping the pro bowl (a meaningless game) because of his injured hand has a lot more to do with it than his "lack of work ethic" or desire to play the game.

Why risk it when he is still healing?
If that is why he didn't go, it is indeed a lot better than the reason the article says.
I guess people will tend to believe what they read in the papers versus finding out the true reason. This why I get upset the "rumor mill" because people take it too seriously. Whoever the idiot was in the organization that thought it was a good idea to let a reporter in on their thinking, in what should be a private matter, makes one wonder what is the real reason behind this. There has to be way more to this story then we know at this point.
 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
 

Family Matters

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Here is the actual blurb. Pretty vague about who said what. Typical offseason bs...

Pittsburgh

There's concern about Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's attitude. Some are worried his early success could affect his work ethic.

Roethlisberger, 23, is the youngest quarterback to win a Super Bowl. League insiders wonder if Steelers coach Bill Cowher will be able to get him to realize he still must improve despite the adulation he's received after winning the title.

Many scouts believe Roethlisberger needs to work on several aspects of his game before he can be considered an elite quarterback.

He needs to work on accuracy and consistency. Rarely has he taken over games, and he struggled much of the Super Bowl. But will he be willing to work to get better after winning a championship so soon?

Roethlisberger raised eyebrows when he turned down a chance to replace Broncos quarterback Jake Plummer in the Pro Bowl and went to the Grammy Awards instead. Roethlisberger is enjoying himself, but it will be up to Cowher to show him he still has plenty of work to do.

Bill Williamson can be reached at 303-820-5450 or at bwilliamson@denverpost.com.

 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
Where in the blurb does it even say anything about ANYONE in the Steelers organization? They reference "league insiders" and that Roethlisberger "raised eyebrows." That's it. For all I know, the reporter himself could be the "league insider" he references, and the "raised eyebrows" could be his.This is standard offseason sensationalism with no grounding in reality. I'm not looking at it through "Steelers coated lenses" - I just know the nature of media well-enough to know if something has legs or not. On the contrary, I would suggest that you see a story here because you WANT to see it.

 

DrJ

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
The reporter would only be risking credibility if anyone actually held him accountable for what he printed. As if that's going to happen any time soon.
 

Odogs

Footballguy
The reason he didn't go to the Pro Bowl was because he already had all of these things planned because they won the Super Bowl. If he didn't already have plans because of the Super Bowl and his hand wasn't injured, I'm sure he would have went. Also, I agree that this guy is just looking to stir something up because there isn't much else going on right now.

 

Black&Gold

Footballguy
I think that he would have been at the Pro Bowl if he would have been originally selected. But being 5th or 6th choice, and having other commitments already made, he skipped it. What more does this guy have to do. I, in fact, like how the Steelers are being looked at as having the Super Bowl given to them by the refs. More reason to kick some tail next year. Going for 6!!!!!

 

kevinray

Footballguy
Listen as Steeler fans we know Rothlisberger is cocky. It was even in his draft reports saying he was cocky but in a good way. Lots of reports came out from after he was drafted and through this season that he rubed certain players the worng way, one of them being Bettis. The Steelers keep things in house and aren't going to openly bash their teamates so thats why its a tuff story to confirm but there has been enough writen about it to give credience to it. The fact is though that Roth has proven himself on the feild and we can rest assured that the other players aren't going to be bothered by his personality if he lives up to it.

Theres gonna be alot more written in the offseason because Rothlisberger didn't workout hard last season so he might not do it again. He spent alot more time then he should of clubing, golfing and being with the tennis girlfreind, and came into camp out of shape. He might do it again, might not, he will be ready on gameday.

As for the pro bowl if anyone in the organization cared I'd be stunned. I think thats the authors assumption. Roth was last min. addition, had already made plans, hes hurt, no problems.

 

Family Matters

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
Where in the blurb does it even say anything about ANYONE in the Steelers organization? They reference "league insiders" and that Roethlisberger "raised eyebrows." That's it. For all I know, the reporter himself could be the "league insider" he references, and the "raised eyebrows" could be his.This is standard offseason sensationalism with no grounding in reality. I'm not looking at it through "Steelers coated lenses" - I just know the nature of media well-enough to know if something has legs or not. On the contrary, I would suggest that you see a story here because you WANT to see it.
Evil, I'm not hoping for a story. On the contrary I like the guy and wish him well, excpet when he plays Cinn. But being from Ohio I'm a fan of his. As for the story, I do not know it's merits. But this is either the reporter going overboard or someone is feeding him. I really do not think anyone outside the Steelers organization really matters much so they can take a flying leap for all I care. But if someone inside the org is passing this story along then that could lead to some issues down the line. My whole point is someone is trying to make him look bad and I don't like it. Regardless of the source of the information I think it's being handled poorly and at Ben's expense.

 

Boston

Footballguy
Big Ben is becoming a celebrity and this type of stuff comes with the turf. He is no longer part of the crowd, he is now a star that stands out. Brady went through the same thing. What this means is there will be more distractions like this type of rumor and there will be people who take shots at him because he's now the man. Also, he'll get invited to all the celebrity BS stuff, he'll be asked to do commercials, TV specials and whatever he does will show up in the gossip columns the next day. If he's mature and grounded like Brady he'll be just fine. If not he can get swallowed up quickly because the bright lights can be very enticing and unforgiving. So far everything I have seen points to him being able to handle this stuff so he should be fine even though he's still a youngster. In the end rumors and gossip will always be around but his play on the field will speak for itself. Always has and always will.

 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
Where in the blurb does it even say anything about ANYONE in the Steelers organization? They reference "league insiders" and that Roethlisberger "raised eyebrows." That's it. For all I know, the reporter himself could be the "league insider" he references, and the "raised eyebrows" could be his.This is standard offseason sensationalism with no grounding in reality. I'm not looking at it through "Steelers coated lenses" - I just know the nature of media well-enough to know if something has legs or not. On the contrary, I would suggest that you see a story here because you WANT to see it.
Evil, I'm not hoping for a story. On the contrary I like the guy and wish him well, excpet when he plays Cinn. But being from Ohio I'm a fan of his. As for the story, I do not know it's merits. But this is either the reporter going overboard or someone is feeding him. I really do not think anyone outside the Steelers organization really matters much so they can take a flying leap for all I care. But if someone inside the org is passing this story along then that could lead to some issues down the line. My whole point is someone is trying to make him look bad and I don't like it. Regardless of the source of the information I think it's being handled poorly and at Ben's expense.
I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were anti-Ben or anything like that - it just smacks of speculation to me, similar to what went on last off-season. The reporter is citing some faceless source that is obviously either trying to disparage Roethlisberger or is inventing his own concerns, and I lend no credence to any of it. I don't think that's homerism - if this story were regarding any other player, Steeler or not, I'd say the same.
 

Slinger

Footballguy
Oh god.

This again?

Gotta love the offseason.
We don't want to offend the Steelers fan. ;) I see no problem with him skipping the Pro-Bowl game. It's extremely meaningless and the risk of getting injured is still there.

 

Family Matters

Footballguy
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
Where in the blurb does it even say anything about ANYONE in the Steelers organization? They reference "league insiders" and that Roethlisberger "raised eyebrows." That's it. For all I know, the reporter himself could be the "league insider" he references, and the "raised eyebrows" could be his.This is standard offseason sensationalism with no grounding in reality. I'm not looking at it through "Steelers coated lenses" - I just know the nature of media well-enough to know if something has legs or not. On the contrary, I would suggest that you see a story here because you WANT to see it.
Evil, I'm not hoping for a story. On the contrary I like the guy and wish him well, excpet when he plays Cinn. But being from Ohio I'm a fan of his. As for the story, I do not know it's merits. But this is either the reporter going overboard or someone is feeding him. I really do not think anyone outside the Steelers organization really matters much so they can take a flying leap for all I care. But if someone inside the org is passing this story along then that could lead to some issues down the line. My whole point is someone is trying to make him look bad and I don't like it. Regardless of the source of the information I think it's being handled poorly and at Ben's expense.
I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were anti-Ben or anything like that - it just smacks of speculation to me, similar to what went on last off-season. The reporter is citing some faceless source that is obviously either trying to disparage Roethlisberger or is inventing his own concerns, and I lend no credence to any of it. I don't think that's homerism - if this story were regarding any other player, Steeler or not, I'd say the same.
Hey Evil-I don't take exception with you. I too wonder about the authenticity of the story. That's one of things that makes our discussion more interesting. ;)
 

stbugs

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?Yes, he has a stellar W-L record so far, but he has "helped" his team, not driven his team like the folks above.

Some folks bash him too much, but just as many hype him too much.

Both David Carr and Michael Vick had more passing yards than Big Ben in 2005. Kyle Orton was the only QB with more starts than Big Ben that had fewer yards passing. I think that says enough about comparing him to 4 HOFers.

 

fred_1_15301

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.

 

fred_1_15301

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.
Well that is a different debate that has been pounded to death in other threads but I think the point is, nobody is comparing Ben to any of the guys listed above. Even if you believe that Ben hasn't had a "hot" start to his career, surely you would at least say his start has been respectable (unlike Leaf, Calico, etc.). The original poster was just listing examples of guys who started off hot and continued to have success and guys who started off cold and never attained success.
 

fred_1_15301

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.
One other thing--A guy can be a good "leader" without putting up the flashy numbers. Anyone who follows the Steelers knows that Ben has earned a tremendous amount of respect and trust from his teammates. The reason he has earned this is because he has made the plays when he needed to--plain and simple. Sure he has his bad streaks but when put in a situation to have to make a play or lead the team, more times than not he has succeeded. Of course it is so early in his career that the jury is still out.
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
FWIW Roethlisberger vs. Marino after their first two NFL seasons... Keeping in mind Marino's 2nd year was the best of his career.

Roethlisberger

Reg Season

W-L: 21-3 (.875 Win %)

QB Rating: 98.3

Comp %: 64.6%

YPA: 8.9

TD% : 6%

INT %: 3.5%

TD/INT: 34/20

Rushing: 2.4 YPC, 4 TD

Marino

Reg Season

W-L: 23-4 (.852 Win %)

QB Rating: 104.5

Comp %: 62.2%

YPA: 8.5

TD%: 7.9%

INT%: 2.7%

TD/INT: 68/23

Rushing: 0.7 YPC, 2 TD

Roethlisberger

Playoffs

W-L: 5-1 (including a Super Bowl win)

QB Rating: 86.8

Comp %: 60.5%

YPA: 8.2

TD%: 6.8%

INT%: 5.4%

TD/INT: 10/8

Rushing: 4.0 YPC, 2 TD

Marino

Playoffs

W-L: 2-2 (including a Super Bowl loss)

QB Rating: 91.1

Comp %: 61%

YPA: 8.5

TD%: 7.1%

INT%: 5%

TD/INT: 10/7

Rushing: 0 YPC, 0 TD

 

stbugs

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.
Well that is a different debate that has been pounded to death in other threads but I think the point is, nobody is comparing Ben to any of the guys listed above. Even if you believe that Ben hasn't had a "hot" start to his career, surely you would at least say his start has been respectable (unlike Leaf, Calico, etc.). The original poster was just listing examples of guys who started off hot and continued to have success and guys who started off cold and never attained success.
Actually, the post I replied to was comparing Ben to the top guys and contrasting him to the bad guys.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.
One other thing--A guy can be a good "leader" without putting up the flashy numbers. Anyone who follows the Steelers knows that Ben has earned a tremendous amount of respect and trust from his teammates. The reason he has earned this is because he has made the plays when he needed to--plain and simple. Sure he has his bad streaks but when put in a situation to have to make a play or lead the team, more times than not he has succeeded. Of course it is so early in his career that the jury is still out.
My "leading" was not being a team leader, but more saying that Ben was a part of the offense, not the leading offensive weapon. Again, he has done very well for a young QB, but while his team has been "red hot" the last two years, he has not carried the offense like the guys above. That is all I am trying to say and I hope that makes sense.
 

fred_1_15301

Footballguy
I'm concerned that LT, Barry Sanders, Dan Marino, and Jerry Rice had early success too.

I so much prefer my players to follow the career paths of Ryan Leaf, Tyrone Calico and KiJana Carter.
Holy cow, are you even pretending to put Big Ben in the company of LT/Sanders/Marino and Rice?
Actually I don't see how he was trying to do that at all. He was simply showing an example of some great players who started off hot early in their career. It didn't look to me that he was inferring that Ben is any of their leagues.
I understand that, but to be honest is 2600+ passing yards in 2004 and 2385 passing yards in 2005 starting off your career hot?He has dropped into a phenomenal situation and done very well record wise, but he is not setting offensive records like the guys listed above were. That was my point, he is hot teamwise/recordwise, but not individually in my mind.

Anyway, no disrespect to Big Ben, he has done well, but I think there is a difference between "leading" the team and "helping" the team.
Well that is a different debate that has been pounded to death in other threads but I think the point is, nobody is comparing Ben to any of the guys listed above. Even if you believe that Ben hasn't had a "hot" start to his career, surely you would at least say his start has been respectable (unlike Leaf, Calico, etc.). The original poster was just listing examples of guys who started off hot and continued to have success and guys who started off cold and never attained success.
Actually, the post I replied to was comparing Ben to the top guys and contrasting him to the bad guys.
I understand that but my point is that I don't think the original poster was attempting to actually compare Ben to the aforementioned players. He simply stated that these guys had success early and went on to have great careers. He then said that Ben has had early success. Thats it. I may be wrong but it didn't seem like he was trying to make some sort of leap by placing Ben in their categories. It's obviously way too early to do that. I think his point is simply that the possibility exists that Ben could continue on and have a great career.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
FWIW Roethlisberger vs. Marino after their first two NFL seasons... Keeping in mind Marino's 2nd year was the best of his career.

Roethlisberger

Reg Season

W-L: 21-3 (.875 Win %)

QB Rating: 98.3

Comp %: 64.6%

YPA: 8.9

TD% : 6%

INT %: 3.5%

TD/INT: 34/20

Rushing: 2.4 YPC, 4 TD

Marino

Reg Season

W-L: 23-4 (.852 Win %)

QB Rating: 104.5

Comp %: 62.2%

YPA: 8.5

TD%: 7.9%

INT%: 2.7%

TD/INT: 68/23

Rushing: 0.7 YPC, 2 TD

Roethlisberger

Playoffs

W-L: 5-1 (including a Super Bowl win)

QB Rating: 86.8

Comp %: 60.5%

YPA: 8.2

TD%: 6.8%

INT%: 5.4%

TD/INT: 10/8

Rushing: 4.0 YPC, 2 TD

Marino

Playoffs

W-L: 2-2 (including a Super Bowl loss)

QB Rating: 91.1

Comp %: 61%

YPA: 8.5

TD%: 7.1%

INT%: 5%

TD/INT: 10/7

Rushing: 0 YPC, 0 TD
While these stats may be interesting, they don't show the whole story.In Marino's second year he had more passing yards (5084) than Ben had in his first two years. He also had 14 more TDs than Ben had in his first two years.

Look at the offensive breakdowns. In both 2004 and 2005, Pittsburgh was #1 in rushing attempts and #32 in passing attempts. You can't tell me that Roethlisberger carried the offense like Sanders or LT or Marino did. Ben's QB rating and YPA benefit quite a bit from the fact that opponents will guess run far more often than pass. The playoffs proved that. Cowher surprised everyone by going pass heavy in the 1st 3 games and it paid off.

Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.

 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
We are getting sidetracked from the initial thread but two points to be made here:

Interesting that the 1983 Dolphins were 7-2 (strike season) and coming off a 27-17 Super Bowl loss to Washington when they selected Dan Marino in the 1984 NFL Draft. Conversely the Steelers were 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. Hard to argue that Roethlisberger was placed in a better situation than Marino.

Roethlisberger will never post the cumulative passing stats that Marino did, few QBs outside of Peyton Manning will. But on a per pass basis they are in the same ballpark through 2 seasons. Roethlisberger is still developing and has ability outside of the pocket that Marino never had. Will he be as good or better than Marino? Nobody can answer that yet, but he certainly displays the potential. We saw it in 3 of the 4 playoff games.

 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
We heard this last offseason too.... Cowher was concerned that Roethlisberger's head was getting too big, etc... etc...

People looking to find a story where there is none.  Publicly, at the very least, Roethlisberger says all the right things, he's respectful, and well-spoken.
The sky isn't exactly falling because your QB would rather go check out Beyonce's butt than he would be recognized for his football achievements.But at the same time it should cause a diligent front office to have a little concern and watchfulness if there seems to be a pattern developing of choosing other things over football... especially if those other things (celebrity awards shows, motorcycles, etc) seem a bit frivilous in comparison. Such a pattern doesn't mean he absolutely will develop a poor work ethic, but it's not exactly a glowing endorsement that he's got the motivation to have a good one over a long period of time.
Your point is well taken but I find more than a little curious that this was "leaked" to the media. Makes you wonder why it's a story and not an in house matter.
Because it's likely fabricated. The author doesn't even mention who is concerned - last year we heard specifically that Cowher was concerned about where Ben's head was, and the entire thing was garbage. I certainly wouldn't lend any credence to this - why would anyone in the Steelers organization be upset about Ben choosing not to play in the Pro Bowl? Why risk exacerbating his current injury, or possibly exposing himself to a new one, in a meaningless game? I'd think they'd be thrilled he decided not to attend.
So your theory is that a reporter made it up? You mean the reporter is willing to risk his/her credibility to make up a story that isn't even a good one? I'm not sure I agree. I know you want to see this through your Steeler coated lenses but I can't help but wonder if there's more to it than a reporter making up a story. No I think someone in the organization has something to do with this.OTH-if you're right then I have another reason to hate on the media. I thought I had enough already but I can always make more room. :hot:
Where in the blurb does it even say anything about ANYONE in the Steelers organization? They reference "league insiders" and that Roethlisberger "raised eyebrows." That's it. For all I know, the reporter himself could be the "league insider" he references, and the "raised eyebrows" could be his.This is standard offseason sensationalism with no grounding in reality. I'm not looking at it through "Steelers coated lenses" - I just know the nature of media well-enough to know if something has legs or not. On the contrary, I would suggest that you see a story here because you WANT to see it.
Evil, I'm not hoping for a story. On the contrary I like the guy and wish him well, excpet when he plays Cinn. But being from Ohio I'm a fan of his. As for the story, I do not know it's merits. But this is either the reporter going overboard or someone is feeding him. I really do not think anyone outside the Steelers organization really matters much so they can take a flying leap for all I care. But if someone inside the org is passing this story along then that could lead to some issues down the line. My whole point is someone is trying to make him look bad and I don't like it. Regardless of the source of the information I think it's being handled poorly and at Ben's expense.
I wasn't trying to insinuate that you were anti-Ben or anything like that - it just smacks of speculation to me, similar to what went on last off-season. The reporter is citing some faceless source that is obviously either trying to disparage Roethlisberger or is inventing his own concerns, and I lend no credence to any of it. I don't think that's homerism - if this story were regarding any other player, Steeler or not, I'd say the same.
Hey Evil-I don't take exception with you. I too wonder about the authenticity of the story. That's one of things that makes our discussion more interesting. ;)
:hifive:
 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.

 

BlueOnion

Footballguy
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.
Then why are the Steelers only going to pay him $655,500 this coming season? ;)
 
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Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.
Then why are the Steelers only going to pay him $655,500 this coming season? ;)
His contract is heavily incentive-laden anyway - he's getting upwards of $2,000,000 in bonuses this year alone.
 

Frenchy Fuqua

Footballguy
Parcells called it last year...

Bill Parcells: Newest member of the Big Ben fan club

Thursday, October 14, 2004

Link

By Shelly Anderson, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

There is the standard puffery between teams leading up to games.

Then, there is the praise Bill Parcells heaped on Steelers rookie quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

"He's the best prospect I've seen in 10 or 15 years," Parcells, coach of the Dallas Cowboys, said yesterday during a teleconference with local reporters in advance of the teams' game Sunday at Texas Stadium.

"I haven't seen anybody come into the league like that. The only guy in my coaching [career] that I can say came in the first year and started playing like he is playing is Dan Marino."

Marino undoubtedly is headed for the Pro Football Hall of Fame next year after a stellar career as a quarterback for the Miami Dolphins. He holds more than 20 NFL passing records.

As a rookie in 1983, Marino completed 58.4 percent of his passes for 2,210 yards and 20 touchdowns with six interceptions. He became the youngest quarterback named to the Pro Bowl.

That's quite a mountain Parcells set in front of Roethlisberger, who was the 11th overall pick in the April draft out of Miami, Ohio. Marino was the 27th pick of the 1983 draft.

Bringing the connection closer to home, Marino grew up in Oakland not far from the Steelers' South Side headquarters and played for Central Catholic High School and Pitt.

Roethlisberger has played in the past four games and started the past three after an elbow injury shelved Tommy Maddox. He has led the Steelers to three wins in a row.

He has completed 57 of 88 pass attempts for 744 yards and five touchdowns with four interceptions and four sacks. He scored his first rushing touchdown Sunday against Cleveland. He has been touted for his poise and precision under pressure.

Although he has deflected most questions about his popularity and the increased attention he is drawing, Roethlisberger found Parcells' words gratifying.

"That's quite a compliment, especially coming from someone like him," he said. "They say he's the best evaluator of talent there is. If I could be half as good as Marino or some of those guys, I'd be extremely happy. It's quite a compliment, but it doesn't mean anything unless you go out and win football games."

Parcells is in his 16th season as an NFL head coach, dating to 1983 because he has taken time off from coaching twice. He is with his fourth team and has an overall record of 161-115-1 with nine playoff appearances and two Super Bowl wins, both with the New York Giants (1986, '90.

Tuesday, Steelers coach Bill Cowher gave a shout out to Parcells, saying he respected Parcells, has learned from him and looks up to him as much as anyone. Perhaps Parcells was returning the favor.

Asked about making such a bold comparison between Roethlisberger and Marino, Parcells said, "Well, he has done a great job, and they have done a good job with him."

To Parcells' eye, Roethlisberger is well-rounded and has the opportunity to continue to prosper.

"It looks like to me he can do about what he wants out there," Parcells said. "He's out of the pocket throwing 50-yard passes right on the money. It's not going to be without some growing pains, but I think he's in an ideal situation. They have good balance on offense. They're running the ball well. They've got a good receiving corps. And they're protecting him pretty well. He's done a good job.

"I'm telling you -- I'm very, very impressed, and it's not just because he's the opponent."

Roethlisberger is the opponent, though, and Cowher expects the Cowboys to go after the rookie with a lot of blitzes.

Asked if that might be the case, Parcells suddenly ran out of words for Roethlisberger.

"Well ..." he said, not willing to divulge his plan.

 
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BlueOnion

Footballguy
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.
Then why are the Steelers only going to pay him $655,500 this coming season? ;)
His contract is heavily incentive-laden anyway - he's getting upwards of $2,000,000 in bonuses this year alone.
$655,500 and 1.5 million in incentives? That is no way to pay a pro-bowl quarterback of Ben Roethlisberger's ability. He deserves upwards of 20 million in upfront guaranteed money.
 

Evilgrin 72

Distributor of Pain
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.
Then why are the Steelers only going to pay him $655,500 this coming season? ;)
His contract is heavily incentive-laden anyway - he's getting upwards of $2,000,000 in bonuses this year alone.
$655,500 and 1.5 million in incentives? That is no way to pay a pro-bowl quarterback of Ben Roethlisberger's ability. He deserves upwards of 20 million in upfront guaranteed money.
No, I believe he made over $2m in bonuses, plus his base salary.Bottom line is, the Steelers paid him something like $10-12 million in upfront money, which was well beyond what his draft slot (#11) dictated, because Steinberg successfully argued that Roethlisberger was a potential franchise QB, and as such warranted more money up front than another player drafted in his slot. The Steelers reluctantly paid it, as well as putting a lot of winning-based incentives in his contract, which he is now earning. Between his base salary, signing bonus, and incentives, I believe he's made somewhere in the vicinity of $15 million over the course of his first two seasons, which is not bad at all, and is the reason why Steinberg hasn't pushed for a new contract yet. Eventually, they're going to want to renegotiate a long-term deal, and when they do, I am sure the Steelers will try to find a way to create a cap-friendly multi-year contract. However, I highly doubt this will take place until well after the CBA garbage is squared away.

 
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stbugs

Footballguy
Again, congrats to Ben for his Super Bowl win, lots of guys go careers without a ring, but he could not have picked a better spot to land in the 2004 draft.
See, this is where I think some people go wrong. They look at the Steelers' success the last two years and assume Roethlisberger landed in a great spot. What goes unnoticed is that he is one of the biggest reasons for that success.This is a team that was 6-10 the year before Roethlisberger was drafted. This is a team that is 4-3 over the last two seasons when Roethlisberger is on the bench, and 27-4 when he plays.

Fact is, without Roethlisberger, this is close to a team that goes 9-7 or 8-8 each of the last two years rather than winning 15 games a year ago and the Super Bowl this year. He didn't exactly drop into the Patriots starting lineup, he has been an enormous reason for their success.
According to the Steelers official web site:
Another year of high expectations welcomed the Steelers to the 2003 season. But it wouldn't be the case as they finished the season 6-10 and missed the playoffs.
In 2000, the Steelers were 9-7 and just missed the playoffs. In 2001 they hosted the AFC Championship after a 13-3 season and lost to the Super Bowl Champions. In 2002 they went 10-5-1 after starting 1-3 and lost in OT in the second round of the playoffs. If Nick Harper doesn't run right into Big Ben, then 2005 would have ended at the same point as 2002.2003 was an aberration for the 2001-2005 years, so you can't cherry pick that year when Pittsburgh was one OT FG away from being in the AFC Championship back to back in 2001 and 2002.

I honestly think that Ben landed in the best position of all of the 1st round QBs selected in the past few years. Compared to say Carson Palmer, I would say that Palmer has done a lot more by himself to turn the Bengals into a playoff team. Ben has done well but Pittsburgh was a good playoff team in 2001/2002.

While I think he will mature, I still can't say that the QB on a team that is dead last in passing attempts over the past 2 seasons has had a "hot" start compared to a QB like Marino (which was the original post I replied to), other than his record. They scored more points in 2002 with Maddox than they did in 2005 with Ben. They also scored only 20 points less in 2001 with Stewart as QB than they did in 2004. Oh well, I am done having fun. ;)

 
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Godsbrother

Footballguy
They scored more points in 2002 with Maddox than they did in 2005 with Ben. They also scored only 20 points less in 2001 with Stewart as QB than they did in 2004. Oh well, I am done having fun. ;)
In 2002 the Steelers scored 390 points verses 389 in 2005 and Ben missed 4 games.
 

stbugs

Footballguy
They scored more points in 2002 with Maddox than they did in 2005 with Ben. They also scored only 20 points less in 2001 with Stewart as QB than they did in 2004. Oh well, I am done having fun. ;)
In 2002 the Steelers scored 390 points verses 389 in 2005 and Ben missed 4 games.
I know, and in 2002, the Steelers switched QB starters in the 4th game because Kordell was playing so badly. By the way, the Steelers averaged 21 ppg without Ben in 2005, which was 3 ppg below their season 24 ppg average. In 2002, with Kordell starting, they averaged just under 16 ppg, which was 8 ppg less than their similar 24 ppg average.Seems like both 2002 and 2005 had 3-4 games with ineffective starting QBs, but they actually scored less in 2002 without Maddox than they did without Ben in 2005.

Actually, 2002 and 2005 seem like very similar years, slow starts, but 2005 had a 3 point win in the second round of the playoffs after a wild card win and 2002 had a 3 point OT loss in the second round of the playoffs after a wild card win. The main difference was that in 2002 the Steelers passed more than they ran (edit to add) and of course the Super Bowl win. ;)

 
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