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Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (2 Viewers)

I feel like there's enough support at 9k to get in now.  Not expecting more than a 10% dip if it does, and it could just as easy go up 20%.

I don't know exactly how LIBRA is going to even work, I think we're supposed to find out today.  I am very bullish on LIBRA, but it's much riskier as well.  I need to know more about it before I get too much behind it.
Read the whitepaper and all related docs. It is 100% not an ICO as far as I can tell. They are going to mint the stable coin backed by a pool of (####ty) assets, then put it out there (not sure how that's going to work).

By design, LIBRA isn't going to be for speculators imo.

(but, it's going to be HUGE for BTC short and long term).

 
Kind of just skimming the news, I'm not sure what makes Libra a cryptocurrency. I mean, it just seems more like a currency. There's not much crypto involved. There's no privacy, you have to attach your name to it, they take a cut of every transaction "for security purposes"... where's the "crypto"?
It's essentially crytpto / blockchain-lite. They are using Byzantine Fault Tolerant (BFT) instead of Proof of Work (PoW). Based on the whitepaper, they aren't filling blocks. Rather, they appear to be using the nodes / validators to store the entire history of transactions. The only way to change the chain is to add a transaction. It's pseduonymous so you can hold more than one address that is not linked to your real world ID. 

Here's the technical paper. Haven't digested all of if but those are the main things I caught from an initial look.

 
The :nerd:  stuff:

The Libra Blockchain is a cryptographically authenticated database maintained using the Libra protocol. The database stores a ledger of programmable resources, such as Libra coins. A resource adheres to custom rules specified by its declaring module, which is also stored in the database. A resource is owned by an account that is authenticated using public key cryptography. An account could represent direct end users of the system as well as entities, such as custodial wallets, that act on behalf of their users. An account’s owner can sign transactions that operate on the resources held within the account.

Validators maintain the database and process transactions submitted by clients for inclusion in the database. The validators use a distributed consensus protocol to agree on an ever-growing list of transactions that have been committed to the database as well as the results of executing those transactions. This consensus protocol must be reliable even in the presence of malicious or erroneous behavior by a minority of validators. Validators take turns driving the process of accepting transact tions. When a validator acts as a leader, it proposes transactions, both those directly submitted to it by clients and those indirectly submitted through other validators, to the other validators (All validators execute the transactions  and form an authenticated data structure that contains the new ledger history. The validators vote on the authenticator for this data structure as part of the consensus protocol. As part of committing a transaction at the consensus protocol outputs a signature on the full state of the database at version — including its entire history — to authenticate responses to queries from clients.

Clients can issue queries to a validator to read data from the database. Since the database is authenticated, clients can be assured of the accuracy of the response to their query. As part of the response to a read query, a validator returns a signed authenticator for the latest version of the database known to the validator.

In addition, a client can optionally create a replica of the entire database by synchronizing the transaction history from the validators. While creating a replica, a client can verify that validators executed transactions correctly, which increases accountability and transparency in the system. Other clients can read from a client that holds a replica in the same way they would read from a validator to verify the authenticity of the response. For the sake of simplicity, the rest of this paper assumes that clients query a validator directly rather than a replica
 
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JerseyToughGuys said:
It's essentially crytpto / blockchain-lite. They are using Byzantine Fault Tolerant (BFT) instead of Proof of Work (PoW). Based on the whitepaper, they aren't filling blocks. Rather, they appear to be using the nodes / validators to store the entire history of transactions. The only way to change the chain is to add a transaction. It's pseduonymous so you can hold more than one address that is not linked to your real world ID. 

Here's the technical paper. Haven't digested all of if but those are the main things I caught from an initial look.
Reading more, Libra code / setup is more like ETH than BTC. No true blockchain however.

 
Congrats, that's awesome.

Have you sold enough to stay retired in case it crashes?
I won't boast numbers, but if you go back in my post history, I've been touting it since $17 and I also recommended bailing when it hit 19k the first time.  I had a number in my head when I left college on what I needed to "retire" and I wasn't too greedy with what I set it.  Used half of it to ladder some lifetime deferred/and immediate annuities which would create enough which will also be covering my whole life premiums.  My son has a trust set up where the money will have stipulations until he's 35.

Retired for me means never having to take orders from anyone, so by that definition I should be set for life.  The annuity payments i'm already receiving pretty much cover my cost of living, turned me into a huge proponent of creating as many income streams as possible for one's self.

I used to work for an insurance agency, now I own one.  I'm on the board of directors or a partner in 20 some different corporations and growing.  Life's been good to me.  

So good, I wish I had an explanation for ranting on the internet at 4am

:bowtie:

 
Somebody who owns an insurance agency thinks massive growth in bitcoin is a sure bet?  The world will never cease to amaze me.

 
What on earth other than hope makes you think it will touch 20k?
The charts indicate a high probability we are going to start climbing higher basically now. I also think we almost double in price by year end. We have been in the new bull run for a few months now. A new bull run will always start slow and steady from a macro perspective. Within two years BTC will probably surpass $100k at minimum.   This summer was a wonderful time to buy bitcoin under 10k and was probably the last opportunity to buy bitcoin under 10k .

I know a lot of people like to knock technical analysis but there is legit information to be gleaned from the charts. I promise you that. The charts right now are showing a lot of positive, bullish signals for the next couple of years. 

 
What’s so funny?  It seems like you’re laughing because you think it’s b.s. which is fine. Those of us who have been on the bitcoin bandwagon will most certainly have the last laugh. But the thing is I don’t want to laugh at anyone I want to help people jump on board.

I’ve been urging everyone I know to buy bitcoin for the last couple years. In fact, this past weekend at my longtime fantasy football live draft I urged everyone (again) to buy bitcoin while it was still under 10 K. My exact quote was “you have at most 2 weeks left to buy BTC under $10k”.  Those guys are used to me pimping bitcoin and I’m pretty sure none of them took my advice.

I don’t know how anyone can view the economy of the world today and think that Fiat cash will be around much longer. I’m not saying to dump your life savings into bitcoin but you should have some amount invested. BTC isn’t going away, that’s a certainty. 

 
What’s so funny?  It seems like you’re laughing because you think it’s b.s. which is fine. Those of us who have been on the bitcoin bandwagon will most certainly have the last laugh. But the thing is I don’t want to laugh at anyone I want to help people jump on board.

I’ve been urging everyone I know to buy bitcoin for the last couple years. In fact, this past weekend at my longtime fantasy football live draft I urged everyone (again) to buy bitcoin while it was still under 10 K. My exact quote was “you have at most 2 weeks left to buy BTC under $10k”.  Those guys are used to me pimping bitcoin and I’m pretty sure none of them took my advice.

I don’t know how anyone can view the economy of the world today and think that Fiat cash will be around much longer. I’m not saying to dump your life savings into bitcoin but you should have some amount invested. BTC isn’t going away, that’s a certainty. 
I'm not sure if I agree with the "pie in the sky" meteoric values that some people are claiming that bitcoin will reach in a year or two--but I definitely am starting to believe that there is the potential for upside.  I've mentioned in the past (in some stock forums) that I believe that gold and silver had lots of room to go up in value--and I've been buying precious metals for years. I've also invested in stocks/mutual funds since I was a child--and about 8-9 years ago--I added some real estate rental properties to my portfolio.  Over the past 10 years of really diversifying my investment portfolio--I've come to realize that while liquidity is comfortable and important---that "over liquidity" is a massive negative.  Government issued currency is massively losing value over time--and if people sit on too much of it--eventually their wealth will get eroded away.   This is why super wealthy people are always looking for asset accumulation--buying stocks, paying top dollar for prime real estate, buying companies, buying collector cars/artwork/jewelry/artwork that historically hold and increase in value.  Bitcoin and other established crypto's (there are some pretty garbage novelty ones out there--and I'm not speaking of those). are basically another asset class---and they seem to be gaining traction in regards to the market taking them seriously.    While I might not agree with some of the price outlooks of some of the super bullish crypto investors--I do agree that in a world where asset accumulation is a path to gain wealth--that some responsible investment in bitcoin is not a bad idea.  

 
What’s so funny?  It seems like you’re laughing because you think it’s b.s. which is fine. Those of us who have been on the bitcoin bandwagon will most certainly have the last laugh. But the thing is I don’t want to laugh at anyone I want to help people jump on board.

I’ve been urging everyone I know to buy bitcoin for the last couple years. In fact, this past weekend at my longtime fantasy football live draft I urged everyone (again) to buy bitcoin while it was still under 10 K. My exact quote was “you have at most 2 weeks left to buy BTC under $10k”.  Those guys are used to me pimping bitcoin and I’m pretty sure none of them took my advice.

I don’t know how anyone can view the economy of the world today and think that Fiat cash will be around much longer. I’m not saying to dump your life savings into bitcoin but you should have some amount invested. BTC isn’t going away, that’s a certainty. 
I own some BTC so I very mildly have some growth belief but expecting it to get to a 100k in two years is just ridiculous. There is nothing that supports that. Just an unreasonable hope. 

 
I own some BTC so I very mildly have some growth belief but expecting it to get to a 100k in two years is just ridiculous. There is nothing that supports that. Just an unreasonable hope. 
It’s not unreasonable hope though. Have you ever used technical analysis? 

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
It’s not unreasonable hope though. Have you ever used technical analysis? 
I think that if you are a bullish bitcoin believer for long term investment--you wouldn't want it to go up in value 10x in a 2 year period.  A meteoric rise like that would incentivize fraud, hacking, massive profit taking,  price instability, and numerous other negative things that would come with a rise like that.   It woud be much healthier for it to go up moderately or even substantially--(but not at the massive rate that you are hoping for).  Nothing would be better for bitcoin prices than a stable but moderate pattern of it increasing in value.  That's just my two cents. 

 
I think that if you are a bullish bitcoin believer for long term investment--you wouldn't want it to go up in value 10x in a 2 year period.  A meteoric rise like that would incentivize fraud, hacking, massive profit taking,  price instability, and numerous other negative things that would come with a rise like that.   It woud be much healthier for it to go up moderately or even substantially--(but not at the massive rate that you are hoping for).  Nothing would be better for bitcoin prices than a stable but moderate pattern of it increasing in value.  That's just my two cents. 
I appreciate your posts. Have you been following BTC since the beginning? The price pattern for BTC since its inception is that of extreme/parabolic moves up followed by an 80-90% correction. So what you’re describing is not really how BTC has performed throughout its entire existence. 

I believe BTC will stabilize in price eventually but that will only happen once mass adoption occurs and once BTC is close to a world reserve currency. 

I truly believe BTC is the future global reserve currency and therefore the price in dollar terms is really not important for the long term but it helps people understand the financial importance of it. Just my $.02

 
I really would like to urge everyone to get SOME amount of BTC. Do it now though because you won’t see $10k BTC ever again once we take off. Just saying...

 
I appreciate your posts. Have you been following BTC since the beginning? The price pattern for BTC since its inception is that of extreme/parabolic moves up followed by an 80-90% correction. So what you’re describing is not really how BTC has performed throughout its entire existence. 

I believe BTC will stabilize in price eventually but that will only happen once mass adoption occurs and once BTC is close to a world reserve currency. 

I truly believe BTC is the future global reserve currency and therefore the price in dollar terms is really not important for the long term but it helps people understand the financial importance of it. Just my $.02
I have followed bitcoin for a while--but not as long as you. I ended up purchasing 2 bitcoin when they were $800 each because of strong pressure from a crypto believer buddy of mine. I paid him the money and he stored my coins for me in his wallet. When bitcoin was in the $17500 range--I told him that I'd like to sell 1.5 of them and he actaully agreed with me and sold some of his own coins as well.  He paid me in cash--I tipped him handsomely for pressuring me to buy--and I still had 0.5 coin left.  Since then--I purchased one more coin at the $7600 range--just because I wanted some exposure and my previous profits left me playing with the house's money.  

Yes--historically you are right when it comes to bitcoins patterns--but that history is what is stopping the masses from really adopting it or taking it seriously.   If you want the price to hit $100k--the masses have to believe that it is worth that risk--and 80-90% price corrections will inhibit that from happening.  Its far better for the long term health of bitcoin to see a moderate but sustained increase in value with far more palletable price corrections.   If bitcoin were to hit $100k in 2 years--the profit taking that would result would inherently result in pretty massive price swings and corrections.   This is why I think that kind of price growth in 2 years would actually be detrimental to the long term adoption of bitcoin by the masses. 

 
Thank you, JV for your thoughts and civility. It seems most on here would rather argue than discuss. I appreciate you taking the discussion route.

 
believe BTC will stabilize in price eventually but that will only happen once mass adoption occurs and once BTC is close to a world reserve currency.
  But why would mass adoption occur if the price isn’t stable?  Even most people with BTC aren’t using it as a currency...to pay for pizza and the like.  They are viewing it as some type of investment.

 
I would argue that those that don't believe BTC has 6 figure potential the next couple years would be well served to learn more on the actual mining process and the cost and resources blockchain requires to maintain itself.  Most bitcoin miners have been spending more than market value on the resources needed to buy bitcoin for years.  It requires more resources and therefore cost..  Every minute that passes increases the size of the blockclain and requires more computing power to award coin.  

BTC is going to fractionalize in a hurry and when that should lead to the stabilization of the currency. as it does so.

Pretty sure instead of a calling it a bitcoin we will have a word for .001 of a bitcoin, followed .0001 and so on and so for.

 
I have followed bitcoin for a while--but not as long as you. I ended up purchasing 2 bitcoin when they were $800 each because of strong pressure from a crypto believer buddy of mine. I paid him the money and he stored my coins for me in his wallet. When bitcoin was in the $17500 range--I told him that I'd like to sell 1.5 of them and he actaully agreed with me and sold some of his own coins as well.  He paid me in cash--I tipped him handsomely for pressuring me to buy--and I still had 0.5 coin left.  Since then--I purchased one more coin at the $7600 range--just because I wanted some exposure and my previous profits left me playing with the house's money.  

Yes--historically you are right when it comes to bitcoins patterns--but that history is what is stopping the masses from really adopting it or taking it seriously.   If you want the price to hit $100k--the masses have to believe that it is worth that risk--and 80-90% price corrections will inhibit that from happening.  Its far better for the long term health of bitcoin to see a moderate but sustained increase in value with far more palletable price corrections.   If bitcoin were to hit $100k in 2 years--the profit taking that would result would inherently result in pretty massive price swings and corrections.   This is why I think that kind of price growth in 2 years would actually be detrimental to the long term adoption of bitcoin by the masses. 


i think we have far different perspectives as what we perceive as a bitcoin.  This normality of basing everything off the price of one bitcoin is going to go away in the very near future.  I won't be long for .0000001 of BTC to be a relative is equivalent  to a $1 

 
I think that if you are a bullish bitcoin believer for long term investment--you wouldn't want it to go up in value 10x in a 2 year period.  A meteoric rise like that would incentivize fraud, hacking, massive profit taking,  price instability, and numerous other negative things that would come with a rise like that.   It woud be much healthier for it to go up moderately or even substantially--(but not at the massive rate that you are hoping for).  Nothing would be better for bitcoin prices than a stable but moderate pattern of it increasing in value.  That's just my two cents. 
The whole point of blockchain is that it can't be manipulated.  The entire ledge is always available and constantly verified.  Blockchain keeps order infinitely more than current US Banking standards;   Because of the design of the mining system, if price does drive up that much more people would invest in more powerful equiptment and keep things balanced.

 
Before I invested in bitcoin, I worked for an agency instead and that sucked.  

What kind of buffoon with a financial education and a high level understanding of risk management would have any idea about this kind of stuff?  Am I right?   :P

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I'm not sure if I agree with the "pie in the sky" meteoric values that some people are claiming that bitcoin will reach in a year or two--but I definitely am starting to believe that there is the potential for upside.  I've mentioned in the past (in some stock forums) that I believe that gold and silver had lots of room to go up in value--and I've been buying precious metals for years. I've also invested in stocks/mutual funds since I was a child--and about 8-9 years ago--I added some real estate rental properties to my portfolio.  Over the past 10 years of really diversifying my investment portfolio--I've come to realize that while liquidity is comfortable and important---that "over liquidity" is a massive negative.  Government issued currency is massively losing value over time--and if people sit on too much of it--eventually their wealth will get eroded away.   This is why super wealthy people are always looking for asset accumulation--buying stocks, paying top dollar for prime real estate, buying companies, buying collector cars/artwork/jewelry/artwork that historically hold and increase in value.  Bitcoin and other established crypto's (there are some pretty garbage novelty ones out there--and I'm not speaking of those). are basically another asset class---and they seem to be gaining traction in regards to the market taking them seriously.    While I might not agree with some of the price outlooks of some of the super bullish crypto investors--I do agree that in a world where asset accumulation is a path to gain wealth--that some responsible investment in bitcoin is not a bad idea.  
Really regret not ponying up on silver around, what was it, $12 or $13?  Gold/silver looking real clean going forward.  Do you buy the physical metal or do you go through a PM vendor with vaults like goldmoney etc.?  

 
Really regret not ponying up on silver around, what was it, $12 or $13?  Gold/silver looking real clean going forward.  Do you buy the physical metal or do you go through a PM vendor with vaults like goldmoney etc.?  
I predominately purchase the physical metal and store it myself.   I do own some mining stocks--but I prefer to own the hard asset as opposed to trusting an entire company to be completely void of fraud/indiscretion that could damage that stocks value.  

 
I would argue that those that don't believe BTC has 6 figure potential the next couple years would be well served to learn more on the actual mining process and the cost and resources blockchain requires to maintain itself.  Most bitcoin miners have been spending more than market value on the resources needed to buy bitcoin for years.  It requires more resources and therefore cost..  Every minute that passes increases the size of the blockclain and requires more computing power to award coin.  

BTC is going to fractionalize in a hurry and when that should lead to the stabilization of the currency. as it does so.

Pretty sure instead of a calling it a bitcoin we will have a word for .001 of a bitcoin, followed .0001 and so on and so for.
I think that our visions are aligned in that we are both bullish on bitcoin.  I do want to make that clear.   With that said--I'm not sure that fractionalization will automatically lead to stabilization.   It's not smaller denominations of currencies play a massive role in stabilizing the actual currency.  Yes--perhaps the fractionalization of it will make it "more like" a currency--which will possibly lead to more people adopting it---but a currency whose value is not stable is not something that is appealing to the masses.  Massive inflation and massive deflation are both unhealthy--and if bitcoin were to go up 10X in value in two years-make no mistake---the profit taking, the hacking, and the fraud that will follow will destabilize things.  With that said---I do agree with you that there is massive long term upside.  I just disagree that a meteoric two year rise is a trouble free and perfect avenue for it to really get adopted.   

 

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