Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (5 Viewers)

[Captain Cranks]

I bring my shame to this thread today, in hopes of helping others.  But you guys aren't morons like me.

I screwed up...I "attempted" to move a chunk of my XLM from coinbase to Kucoin I wanted to buy more Berpo at these sweet discounted rates (down over 40% in 30 days).  

I've never moved XLM from one exchange to the other.  So I'm sitting at my office, have it all mapped out and I guess I just spaced out for a minute...phones was ringing and people were in my office and what not.  Anyways, when moving XLM between exchanged you have a Memo number.  I got 2 different pop ups acknowledging that I had to put my memo number along with the wallet address.  

I saw it, read it, acknowledged it...then I wrote "bepro" in the memo section.  I've filled out that memo section a hundred times moving BTC or ETH various places...its never mattered what you put in the memo section.  IT DOES WITH XLM.  

Anyways...its gone.  Reached out to Kucoin and I'm obviously not the first one to do this.  They make it sound like they can recover it.  We'll see.  They sent me a long email and asked to send 30 USDT for their efforts.  I did that and I haven't heard a word in 24 hours.  

I'm still a little befuddled as to where this stuff actually goes in these situations?  You can check the stellar blockchain and it says it was successful.  

Speaking of making it right, did Kucoin ever track down your XLM, jb?

 

[jb1020]

Speaking of making it right, did Kucoin ever track down your XLM, jb?

Nothing....at least nothing yet.

I never got a time line, but I've sent them everything they've requested.  They followed up on 10/3 needing some info and I got it to them. 

I followed up yesterday.  But if It comes back...its going to come back up about 15%!  haha.  All I can do is laugh at myself right now.  

 

[KGB]

Small update.

Planned on cashing out 241974 HEX When it went up back to worth $110K.

Got greedy and didnt take 105k.

Current value of unstaked HEX $85K :(  

HODLING

 

[KGB]

Just moved $5475 into ETH2 via coinbase.   4.5% APR supposedly.  dont know much else.

 

[KGB]

Hex down 10% today.  

Added a grip to it.  Only 10 day stake

 

[Chaos Commish]

Update

Gas issues are almost a thing of the past. Can't wait. Bullish on eth. I dumped several alts to add to my eth. I'm not staking. I want to be nft ready when fees become normalized.

I just bought 750 billion saitama. $10k. Swapped my link on uni. Link has a dumping issue suppressing the price. Lots of twitter and telegram whining. Project members just point to the white paper and explain this was the plan. 3-4 more years of dumping before link has a chance to skyrocket. Great real world crypto project maybe in heavier use than anything but btc and eth, but it is what it is. 

Saitama? Similar homerun swing as FEG was, but guess what? My FEG is up! haha 53%. Glad I was too lazy to sell it all. Saitama is worth a look. It gives me a warm fuzzy. 

Metahero has flipped everything in my portfolio but btc. Up 2350% and I bought alot on presale. 

I haven't made my trip yet because chains were required. Road's clear so I'm gone.

 

[Chaos Commish]

Saitama up 10% in a little over an hour. 

 

[urbanhack]

OH...and BTC is over $57k...pushing 60.

 

[Captain Cranks]

OH...and BTC is over $57k...pushing 60.

No doubt although I think a lot of us are waiting for this explosive end of year altcoin season we keep hearing about.  

 

[urbanhack]

Polkadot =

Could this run like SOL?

 

[Captain Cranks]

Polkadot =

Could this run like SOL?

It could although I think this is more about parachain auctions and less about network activity like SOL and AVAX were.  You'll see DOT and KSM pump as people buy up and stake the tokens to bid in the auctions.

All of these Layer 1s take turns pumping, so I've been building a portfolio of 12 of them and will take profits on those that have their runs.  XTZ and ONE had awesome runs a couple weeks ago, but have since pulled back.  Now it's DOT's and FTM's week.

 

[jb1020]

OH...and BTC is over $57k...pushing 60.

If BTC can hit that $62ish and consolidate for a minute I think we'll see that Alts returning to jump we saw this time last year.  

 

[Captain Cranks]

If BTC can hit that $62ish and consolidate for a minute I think we'll see that Alts returning to jump we saw this time last year.  

ETH needs to step its game up.  I can't explain why it's lagged so much these past few weeks.  NFT activity is crazy high and supposedly all the gas burning and on-chain metrics have been bullish.  Raoul Pal is still calling for '$15K by end of year and $40K in early 2022'.  We'll see.

 

[Capella]

ETH needs to step its game up.  I can't explain why it's lagged so much these past few weeks.  NFT activity is crazy high and supposedly all the gas burning and on-chain metrics have been bullish.  Raoul Pal is still calling for '$15K by end of year and $40K in early 2022'.  We'll see.

15k for eth? That doesn’t even seem slightly possible. What’s going to happen to cause that all of a sudden. I could see 4500 or maybe even 5. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

15k for eth? That doesn’t even seem slightly possible. What’s going to happen to cause that all of a sudden. I could see 4500 or maybe even 5. 

Well, he's overly bullish and you're overly bearish.  If we continue bull, it'll likely end up somewhere in the middle.

 

[Capella]

Well, he's overly bullish and you're overly bearish.  If we continue bull, it'll likely end up somewhere in the middle.

5k is overly bearish? That’s over 40% higher than the current price lol

 

[Captain Cranks]

5k is overly bearish? That’s over 40% higher than the current price lol

If you think 40% over 2.5 months is a big move in the crypto space, then not sure what to tell ya.

Take your lol back to the stock thread where 40% is actually something to get excited about.

 

[Capella]

If you think 40% over 2.5 months is a big move in the crypto space, then not sure what to tell ya.

Take your lol back to the stock thread where 40% is actually something to get excited about.

 

 

[jb1020]

5k is overly bearish? That’s over 40% higher than the current price lol

Eth is up 900% over the last 12 months.  I think most experts consider the first leg up in this run...with run up #2 just beginning.  

$10k Eth is inevitable.  

 

[Capella]

Eth is up 900% over the last 12 months.  I think most experts consider the first leg up in this run...with run up #2 just beginning.  

$10k Eth is inevitable.  

I’ll be thrilled. I have plenty of it. By the end of the year doesn’t seem likely to me but we’ll see. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

 

Yes.  You bringing a stock market mindset into the crypto space is loony.  You'll learn.

 

[KGB]

Saitama up 10% in a little over an hour. 

What did you use to buy this?

 

[Chaos Commish]

What did you use to buy this?

https://saitamatoken.com/

Scroll down or better yet read until you get to step by step instructions. It's just an eth swap on Uni using Saita contract address. 

 

[KGB]

https://saitamatoken.com/

Scroll down or better yet read until you get to step by step instructions. It's just an eth swap on Uni using Saita contract address. 

on a 10 day stake right now.  might jump in on a dip after 

 

[KGB]

Eth is up 900% over the last 12 months.  I think most experts consider the first leg up in this run...with run up #2 just beginning.  

$10k Eth is inevitable.  

I also think we will see 10K ETH sooner than later. :cheers:

 

[Capella]

Yes.  You bringing a stock market mindset into the crypto space is loony.  You'll learn.

You’re the only person constantly mentioning stocks in here. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. 

 

[Captain Cranks]

You’re the only person constantly mentioning stocks in here. I don’t even know what you’re talking about. 

Have you ever stopped to consider why you have "plenty" of something that has a history of losing 70-80% of its value in a short amount of time if you think it will only gain 40% under a bullish scenario?  Doesn't seem like a good risk/reward profile to me.   

 

[[icon]]

Have you ever stopped to consider why you have "plenty" of something that has a history of losing 70-80% of its value in a short amount of time if you think it will only gain 40% under a bullish scenario?  Doesn't seem like a good risk/reward profile to me.   

Huh? 

 

[Captain Cranks]

Huh? 

For those that might not follow the crypto space closely, it's widely anticipated by the more prominent prognosticators that the industry is going to have an amazing end to the year.  I cited Raoul Pal, an Ethereum bull, as forecasting ETH to finish the year at 15K before moving onto 40K in early 2022.  Capella was flabbergasted by such figures and threw out a 40% move.  If, and it's a big if, we do experience the type of market that some are forecasting, 40% upside is child's play.  Hell, ETH is up more than that in just the last month under a somewhat slow, grinding uptrend.

Conversely, as I'm sure you know, the crypto space is highly volatile in both directions with swift 50-80% corrections in a matter of days/weeks.  So, from a risk/reward perspective, if you're willing to take on the risk of a position that can and has lost 50-80% of its value in a short amount of time, you better be trying to achieve something better than 40% upside in bullish market conditions.   

 

[Captain Cranks]

Bitcorn about to make ATHs.  Then it needs to rest and let everyone else have fun.   

 

[tonydead]

5k is overly bearish? That’s over 40% higher than the current price lol

It's up 40% higher than the price it was 3 weeks ago.  

 

[Angry Beavers]

just checking back in here - 

I resisted Shibu for a long time - eff it - I have bought dumber things

38M Shibu please for 1k - why not? 

 

[KGB]

Hex update....

Last month $755K

Today $482K.



HODLIGN!

 

[TheDirtyWord]

In terms of real world use case, yesterday I initiated a $45K loan using my BTC as collateral.  This AM, the $ was in my fiat bank account.  That’s a tremendous real world use case.  Try getting a loan that fast from your bank.  Literally took me 10 minutes.  Why, because everything was verifiable via the blockchain.

I understand that the first impulse is to look at BTC and crypto in general much like we look at stocks.  We’re programmed to especially when we measure ‘market cap’.  But what you are buying is not shares in a centralized entity, but rather a monetary network that has the potential to service humanity in a much more efficient and verifiable way that the fiat rails that exist today.

Food for thought.

Haven't posted much in this thread.  This space moves so fast and where I thought I was ahead of the game just 12 months ago...watching the activity just in this thread alone, shows you how far and fast the space has come in so short a time.

I did though want to provide an update on something I did about 5 months ago which was to take out a loan using my BTC as collateral.  For me, I took out a $45K loan.  At the time, BTC was about $37K.  I took the loan out thru BlockFi so I needed to put up collateral equal to 2.44 BTC to secure the loan.

So say I wanted $45K back in May.  Instead of selling BTC 1.22 BTC, I secure that amount by anticipating price appreciation...that's the risk I take.  The rate is fairly shyte by credit standards we se in TradFi, I think it's 8-9% so my interest payment is about $370/month.  So my loan term was 12 months which means my 'cost' will wind up being (in USD) about $41.5K come May 2022.

However with BTC at $60K, let's say I wanted to pay back the loan right now.  What I would need to pay back would still be $45K in USD terms.  But in BTC terms, instead of cashing out 1.22 BTC, now it would be in the .75 BTC.

So BlockFi wins because they've earned 8-9% in the BTC I collateralized with them.  And I win because I've saved almost .5 BTC (almost $30K) by loaning out my BTC instead of cashing out for USD.

Given how much press and activity you see in the crypto space, real world use cases are still in the 'handful' stage IMO.  But this is one as people start to opt-out of fiat economies that has incredible value.

 

[Captain Cranks]

Haven't posted much in this thread.  This space moves so fast and where I thought I was ahead of the game just 12 months ago...watching the activity just in this thread alone, shows you how far and fast the space has come in so short a time.

I did though want to provide an update on something I did about 5 months ago which was to take out a loan using my BTC as collateral.  For me, I took out a $45K loan.  At the time, BTC was about $37K.  I took the loan out thru BlockFi so I needed to put up collateral equal to 2.44 BTC to secure the loan.

So say I wanted $45K back in May.  Instead of selling BTC 1.22 BTC, I secure that amount by anticipating price appreciation...that's the risk I take.  The rate is fairly shyte by credit standards we se in TradFi, I think it's 8-9% so my interest payment is about $370/month.  So my loan term was 12 months which means my 'cost' will wind up being (in USD) about $41.5K come May 2022.

However with BTC at $60K, let's say I wanted to pay back the loan right now.  What I would need to pay back would still be $45K in USD terms.  But in BTC terms, instead of cashing out 1.22 BTC, now it would be in the .75 BTC.

So BlockFi wins because they've earned 8-9% in the BTC I collateralized with them.  And I win because I've saved almost .5 BTC (almost $30K) by loaning out my BTC instead of cashing out for USD.

Given how much press and activity you see in the crypto space, real world use cases are still in the 'handful' stage IMO.  But this is one as people start to opt-out of fiat economies that has incredible value.

I had a conversation with my brother in law this weekend where he compared crypto to the tulip bubble. Your story is just one of many ways that crypto is changing the world yet people like him are still completely naïve to.    

 

[TheDirtyWord]

For those that might not follow the crypto space closely, it's widely anticipated by the more prominent prognosticators that the industry is going to have an amazing end to the year.  I cited Raoul Pal, an Ethereum bull, as forecasting ETH to finish the year at 15K before moving onto 40K in early 2022.  Capella was flabbergasted by such figures and threw out a 40% move.  If, and it's a big if, we do experience the type of market that some are forecasting, 40% upside is child's play.  Hell, ETH is up more than that in just the last month under a somewhat slow, grinding uptrend.

Conversely, as I'm sure you know, the crypto space is highly volatile in both directions with swift 50-80% corrections in a matter of days/weeks.  So, from a risk/reward perspective, if you're willing to take on the risk of a position that can and has lost 50-80% of its value in a short amount of time, you better be trying to achieve something better than 40% upside in bullish market conditions.   

I like Raoul myself - he's become a North Star of sorts for me to always pay attention to.  However, his price targets on both BTC and ETH have almost doubled over the past 6-8 months.  I know his preference has shifted almost entirely to ETH.  I think I heard him say he's 5% BTC, 70% ETH, 25% other alts and his entire macro thesis is now based on network effect.  His BTC target at the end of this cycle is now $400K.  So BTC is a 6-7x pump, but ETH is closer to 11x.  It explains why his portfolio has shifted.

That said, I don't think he's great at communicating downside.  What I mean by that is you can tell how curious he is about all of this innovation.  That's another reason I think he's shifted his portfolio, there is simply way more happening innovation wise with ETH/SOL and those protocols than BTC.  But he treats those huge drops that crypto invariably has with more of a shoulder shrug because he's a log chart guy.  To date, he's been right as the crypto market is at or near ATH's in terms of overall market cap.  But with those outsized price targets, as we head into 2022...I'm going to proceed with more caution since his original targets for the 'blow off top' were more in the $250K (BTC)/$20K (ETH) range.  IMO, I'll be paying attention to pace...how fast are we seeing these gains?  Even back earlier this year, steep gains were accompanied by 20% drops in short periods of time...and that was before BTC lost almost 50% in a matter of 2 weeks in May.

Overall, I'm looking forward to remainder of the year because I do think we're at the precipice of new ATH's by pretty decent margins.  But I am significantly more focused on my exit plan now than I was even 3 months ago.

 

[Captain Cranks]

I like Raoul myself - he's become a North Star of sorts for me to always pay attention to.  However, his price targets on both BTC and ETH have almost doubled over the past 6-8 months.  I know his preference has shifted almost entirely to ETH.  I think I heard him say he's 5% BTC, 70% ETH, 25% other alts and his entire macro thesis is now based on network effect.  His BTC target at the end of this cycle is now $400K.  So BTC is a 6-7x pump, but ETH is closer to 11x.  It explains why his portfolio has shifted.

That said, I don't think he's great at communicating downside.  What I mean by that is you can tell how curious he is about all of this innovation.  That's another reason I think he's shifted his portfolio, there is simply way more happening innovation wise with ETH/SOL and those protocols than BTC.  But he treats those huge drops that crypto invariably has with more of a shoulder shrug because he's a log chart guy.  To date, he's been right as the crypto market is at or near ATH's in terms of overall market cap.  But with those outsized price targets, as we head into 2022...I'm going to proceed with more caution since his original targets for the 'blow off top' were more in the $250K (BTC)/$20K (ETH) range.  IMO, I'll be paying attention to pace...how fast are we seeing these gains?  Even back earlier this year, steep gains were accompanied by 20% drops in short periods of time...and that was before BTC lost almost 50% in a matter of 2 weeks in May.

Overall, I'm looking forward to remainder of the year because I do think we're at the precipice of new ATH's by pretty decent margins.  But I am significantly more focused on my exit plan now than I was even 3 months ago.

Agreed.  I think he's a little too married to "network effects" and what's happened historically.  You may have caught him on Crypto Banter last week where he matched the current ETH chart to the 2017 BTC chart and matched the SOL chart to the 2017 ETH chart.  To me, that's more coincidence than showcase of what's about to happen.  As far as network effect, and to your point about not communicating downside, he seems to ignore that things can change.  People don't use Myspace.  People don't use Netscape.  Just because ETH is the dominant network now doesn't mean it's on a sure path to dominance in the future.  

Ultimately, I hope he's right because I have so much effectively pegged to ETH in the form of NFTs.  However, I'm way more diversified with the other Layer 1s in case he's wrong.   

 

[jb1020]

Speaking of making it right, did Kucoin ever track down your XLM, jb?

I got an email Friday saying my XLM was returned to the sending account.  I got so excited, went to my account...nothing.  

I obviously sent another follow up, but no response.  I think its a lost cause at this point.  

Dear Valued KuCoin User,

Thank you for contacting KuCoin customer support.

Sorry for the delay, this transaction has been returned to the sending address shown in the blockchain, here is the return TXID:
https://stellarchain.io/tx/0253340e92cec246f81d11155833a8ce3e7494dbf23bf236da6b95ce10691e00

We hope this information guides you in the right direction.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this process, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Kind regards,




Any ideas?  Or just let it go?  

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Agreed.  I think he's a little too married to "network effects" and what's happened historically.  You may have caught him on Crypto Banter last week where he matched the current ETH chart to the 2017 BTC chart and matched the SOL chart to the 2017 ETH chart.  To me, that's more coincidence than showcase of what's about to happen.  As far as network effect, and to your point about not communicating downside, he seems to ignore that things can change.  People don't use Myspace.  People don't use Netscape.  Just because ETH is the dominant network now doesn't mean it's on a sure path to dominance in the future.  

Ultimately, I hope he's right because I have so much effectively pegged to ETH in the form of NFTs.  However, I'm way more diversified with the other Layer 1s in case he's wrong.   

Yeah, he's been matching ETH to the BTC chart for awhile now.  And that's part of my concern actually.  While SOL to ETH is new, he's been comparing the network effects of ETH to BTC circa 2017 for quite some time.  So why the price prediction change from $20K (the approximate 2017 BTC high) to $40K?

 

[Captain Cranks]

I got an email Friday saying my XLM was returned to the sending account.  I got so excited, went to my account...nothing.  

I obviously sent another follow up, but no response.  I think its a lost cause at this point.  

Dear Valued KuCoin User,

Thank you for contacting KuCoin customer support.

Sorry for the delay, this transaction has been returned to the sending address shown in the blockchain, here is the return TXID:
https://stellarchain.io/tx/0253340e92cec246f81d11155833a8ce3e7494dbf23bf236da6b95ce10691e00

We hope this information guides you in the right direction.

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this process, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Kind regards,




Any ideas?  Or just let it go?  

It's gotta be somewhere and is likely still returnable.  Unfortunately I don't know the ins and outs of running down this type of mess.  I know there was someone on here who testified to a similar mishap a few months ago who can chime in with some guidance.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

So BlockFi wins because they've earned 8-9% in the BTC I collateralized with them.  And I win because I've saved almost .5 BTC (almost $30K) by loaning out my BTC instead of cashing out for USD.

Isn't this kind of a false dichotomy though?  I mean, you could've just taken out a personal loan that had nothing to do with crypto.  You still would have accumulated gains on your BTC and would probably have paid comparable interest on a traditional loan.  I guess I'm missing what makes this so awesome. 

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Isn't this kind of a false dichotomy though?  I mean, you could've just taken out a personal loan that had nothing to do with crypto.  You still would have accumulated gains on your BTC and would probably have paid comparable interest on a traditional loan.  I guess I'm missing what makes this so awesome. 

This certainly works as well, Michael Saylor has been taking out loans to buy BTC for the last 12-18 months.  But he’s ultra-rich.  A couple of things I would say make/made this process significantly better for both lender/lendee:

1). The money was in my account within 24 hours.  The application process was nothing. When you say ‘I could have just…’, would a bank or online lender have been able to turn the request around that quickly?  And would the application process have taken barely any time?  And probably most significantly, would a traditional bank/lender allow you to use BTC as collateral?

2) From a collateral perspective, BlockFi is assured of being paid back because I have to put the collateral of BTC up to secure the loan.  How many traditional loans are defaulted on because they’ll take out a loan (car, house, small business, etc) and wind up not being able to repay that loan?  If the price of BTC did go down to a point where the value of the collateral was less than the loan I took out, I would need to add additional BTC or else, BlockFi simply now owns my BTC and are repaid in full.  So defaults are off the table.

 

[beef]

It could although I think this is more about parachain auctions and less about network activity like SOL and AVAX were.  You'll see DOT and KSM pump as people buy up and stake the tokens to bid in the auctions.

All of these Layer 1s take turns pumping, so I've been building a portfolio of 12 of them and will take profits on those that have their runs.  XTZ and ONE had awesome runs a couple weeks ago, but have since pulled back.  Now it's DOT's and FTM's week.

Which ones do you have that that haven't run yet?  Or haven't run in a while? 

TIA 

 

[Captain Cranks]

Which ones do you have that that haven't run yet?  Or haven't run in a while? 

TIA 

Current Layer 1 portfolio:

SOL - 23%

ADA and ATOM  - 11%

ETH, DOT, ONE - 9%

EGLD, XTZ, ALGO, AVAX - 6%

MATIC, FTM, LUNA, BNB - 2%

Out of those, from a technical analysis perspective, I like ALGO, ONE, and AVAX the best since they've pulled back slightly from their September highs but are resting nicely on support.  

 

[stbugs]

This certainly works as well, Michael Saylor has been taking out loans to buy BTC for the last 12-18 months.  But he’s ultra-rich.  A couple of things I would say make/made this process significantly better for both lender/lendee:

1). The money was in my account within 24 hours.  The application process was nothing. When you say ‘I could have just…’, would a bank or online lender have been able to turn the request around that quickly?  And would the application process have taken barely any time?  And probably most significantly, would a traditional bank/lender allow you to use BTC as collateral?

2) From a collateral perspective, BlockFi is assured of being paid back because I have to put the collateral of BTC up to secure the loan.  How many traditional loans are defaulted on because they’ll take out a loan (car, house, small business, etc) and wind up not being able to repay that loan?  If the price of BTC did go down to a point where the value of the collateral was less than the loan I took out, I would need to add additional BTC or else, BlockFi simply now owns my BTC and are repaid in full.  So defaults are off the table.

So BlockFi will go under if BTC hits a big downturn and they made a lot of loans?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So BlockFi will go under if BTC hits a big downturn and they made a lot of loans?

BTC is just the collateral so I'd think their only risk is if bitcoin hits a big downturn AND a ton of people simultaneously default on their loans.  BTC's value decreasing on its own shouldn't do much.

Similar to the way a mortgage lender would hypothetically be at risk if real estate values tanked AND a majority of the people they held mortgages for simultaneously defaulted on their mortgages.  The value of their collateral decreases but that only matters if they have to default to that collateral.

 

[jb1020]

So BlockFi will go under if BTC hits a big downturn and they made a lot of loans?

I have all of my BTC on blockfi and most of my Eth.  Drawing the interest has been nice, but I think I'm going to move it back to Coinbase or another exchange just for the easy on and off ramps for when this parabolic move comes.  I'm ready.  

 

[stbugs]

BTC is just the collateral so I'd think their only risk is if bitcoin hits a big downturn AND a ton of people simultaneously default on their loans.  BTC's value decreasing on its own shouldn't do much.

Similar to the way a mortgage lender would hypothetically be at risk if real estate values tanked AND a majority of the people they held mortgages for simultaneously defaulted on their mortgages.  The value of their collateral decreases but that only matters if they have to default to that collateral.

Got it. I wonder if these loans are covered under your credit. Meaning, are people able to walk away and say you can keep my collateral and it never hits their credit report. If so, then I’d assume they would have a ton of defaults. If I have the cash and can go buy BTC way cheaper now and just walk away, why wouldn’t I do that? If these are “special” loans BlockFi may not have a lot of protection. BTC can go down way faster than real estate and if real estate tanks, you can rent it out till you break even/prices come back. If BTC goes down 50% and there’s no repercussions, all loan holders will likely walk away.

I get the concept but it sure seems like they could get murdered if they’re really successful in creating loans. I’m also assuming that they haven’t given out a ton of loans yet. If they have and there’s no credit risk to consumers, they have a lot of risk.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

A couple of things I would say make/made this process significantly better for both lender/lendee:

1). The money was in my account within 24 hours.  The application process was nothing. When you say ‘I could have just…’, would a bank or online lender have been able to turn the request around that quickly?  And would the application process have taken barely any time?  And probably most significantly, would a traditional bank/lender allow you to use BTC as collateral?

A traditional lender probably wouldn't ask me for collateral for a personal loan, that's the point. Pretty sure I can go get $45,000 from a bunch of different online lenders right now without having to give them anything. You had to give them your crypto and you're still paying 9% interest...?

2) From a collateral perspective, BlockFi is assured of being paid back because I have to put the collateral of BTC up to secure the loan.  How many traditional loans are defaulted on because they’ll take out a loan (car, house, small business, etc) and wind up not being able to repay that loan?  If the price of BTC did go down to a point where the value of the collateral was less than the loan I took out, I would need to add additional BTC or else, BlockFi simply now owns my BTC and are repaid in full.  So defaults are off the table.

I guess I fail to see how this is really any different than any other secured loan. Savings-secured loans exist. They haven't invented anything new and amazing here. 

Cool I guess that you can use BTC as collateral for a loan but this just sounds like traditional finance. You put up a risky asset as collateral, they gave you a crappy rate in return.   

Edit: My point is not to crap on the terms of your loan or whatever, I just don't see how this is an example of the amazing potential of crypto to completely disrupt the universe and whatnot. This is just a loan. Loans have existed forever. 

 

[TheDirtyWord]

A traditional lender probably wouldn't ask me for collateral for a personal loan, that's the point. Pretty sure I can go get $45,000 from a bunch of different online lenders right now without having to give them anything. You had to give them your crypto and you're still paying 9% interest...?

With the planet being $300T in debt, should that be a best practice?  The no collateral part?  For me, one of the reasons I was attracted to the space was the accountability aspect.  You can't default on a loan collateralized with BTC.  If the price of BTC drops, you either have to come up with more collateral or BlockFi simply takes formal custody of your original collateral.

I guess I fail to see how this is really any different than any other secured loan. Savings-secured loans exist. They haven't invented anything new and amazing here. 

Cool I guess that you can use BTC as collateral for a loan but this just sounds like traditional finance. You put up a risky asset as collateral, they gave you a crappy rate in return.   

Edit: My point is not to crap on the terms of your loan or whatever, I just don't see how this is an example of the amazing potential of crypto to completely disrupt the universe and whatnot. This is just a loan. Loans have existed forever. 

...I would think in terms of BTC.  When I took out a $45K loan, that equaled 1.22 BTC at the time.  The price of BTC today is $63K or .71 BTC.  So did I get a crappy rate of return, or did I make .5 BTC or $31.5K?  Is there a collateralized loan out there in traditional finance that could give me what amounts to a 70% rate of return in 3 months?  Maybe...haven't investigated.

One thing to note here.  BlockFi is a centralized entity.  So its function is close to that of what we've come to expect from the structure of TradFi.  But consider that there are lending protocols like Aave and Compound that allow for decentralized peer-to-peer lending, that remove the middleman where you can be the lender or the lendee.