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Black lives matter (3 Viewers)

I appreciate BRs posts - it helps provide a different point of view. He has had different experiences than I have and seems to be much more alert to attacks on the traditional white male power structure than I am.  I don’t agree often, but he has made me Google some things for more info. 
@BladeRunner is a good dude and most of the time makes excellent, thoughtful arguments (most of them I disagree with but that’s besides the point.) 

The only times I get annoyed with him is when he gets lazy by offering “whataboutisms” rather than actual rebuttals: “Now do BLM!” “where were you on Brett Kavanaugh?” etc. That gets tiresome. 

 
It’s unfortunate that there appears to be corruption, and extremism, at the top rungs of the Black Lives Matter movement. As @Sandstated, it’s not surprising. 

Even so, the positive aspects of this movement overwhelm the negatives. By a creating a slogan that nearly every American could relate to, especially young people, BLM has managed to draw attention to police mistreatment of blacks people in a way that the civil rights leaders of old could never have achieved, despite their decades long attempts to bring attention to this issue. Because of this, Black Lives Matter will be viewed by history as an important and positive step forward in our society. 

 
It’s unfortunate that there appears to be corruption, and extremism, at the top rungs of the Black Lives Matter movement. As @Sandstated, it’s not surprising. 

Even so, the positive aspects of this movement overwhelm the negatives. By a creating a slogan that nearly every American could relate to, especially young people, BLM has managed to draw attention to police mistreatment of blacks people in a way that the civil rights leaders of old could never have achieved, despite their decades long attempts to bring attention to this issue. Because of this, Black Lives Matter will be viewed by history as an important and positive step forward in our society. 
How many black public schools has BLM improved?

I disagree it will be remembered as a devisive org. that was built on grift.

 
It’s unfortunate that there appears to be corruption, and extremism, at the top rungs of the Black Lives Matter movement. As @Sandstated, it’s not surprising. 

Even so, the positive aspects of this movement overwhelm the negatives. By a creating a slogan that nearly every American could relate to, especially young people, BLM has managed to draw attention to police mistreatment of blacks people in a way that the civil rights leaders of old could never have achieved, despite their decades long attempts to bring attention to this issue. Because of this, Black Lives Matter will be viewed by history as an important and positive step forward in our society. 
I would just clarify, i wouldnt say there is corruption in the "movement" but the organization is obviously doing some shady stuff which is shameful and frustrating as it only sets the movement back.  Even so, im still quite satisfied with the accomplishments from the movement thus far. 

 
I would just clarify, i wouldnt say there is corruption in the "movement" but the organization is obviously doing some shady stuff which is shameful and frustrating as it only sets the movement back.  Even so, im still quite satisfied with the accomplishments from the movement thus far. 


Yep.  We needed new buildings in a lot of these cities.  We can thank BLM for destroying the existing ones.  Who cares if some people died in the name of infrastructure improvements.  :thumbup:

 
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@BladeRunner is a good dude and most of the time makes excellent, thoughtful arguments (most of them I disagree with but that’s besides the point.) 

The only times I get annoyed with him is when he gets lazy by offering “whataboutisms” rather than actual rebuttals: “Now do BLM!” “where were you on Brett Kavanaugh?” etc. That gets tiresome. 


It does, I agree.  I'm trying to up my game if that makes you feel any better.  I've been working with a couple of excellent forum professionals to rebrand myself.  :thumbup:

 
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Nobody wants BLM or the bull#### Democratic response to BLM in their area. 
I'm reasonably sure that this is an 'opinion' not shared by many in this country.

Maybe amending 'Nobody' ....to "lots of people who have similar world views to myself" may be a little more accurate.

 
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I'm reasonably sure that this is an 'opinion' not shared by many.
I'll bet everywhere they stayed and camped out either votes in a more moderate Dem or flips red. That's probably easy to verify. Have fun verifying it for me, because I don't care enough. 

It's a bull#### organization with bull#### tactics; drags vandalism, looting, and arson into tow; and has succeeded solely because of a cowed media response to it and its wake. 

It's garbage.  

 
The term "Nobody' is all encompassing.  It's incorrect. Sure, you can have your opinions, but the statement is speculation that can't be verified.  Amend it to 'people who think/feel like I do' and you'll have a 'reasonable' opinion. 

Heck, even 'Lots of people don't want ' is more accurate.  Saying ....'Nobody' is incorrect. And you know it.

 
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The term "Nobody' is all encompassing.  It's incorrect. Sure, you can have your opinions, but the statement is speculation that can't be verified.  Amend it to 'people who think/feel like I do' and you'll have a 'reasonable' opinion. 

Heck, even 'Lots' i is more accurate.  Saying ....'Nobody' is incorrect. And you know it.
I think quibbling over the hyperbolic use of "nobody" vs. "the majority of people" is silly and a waste of time. You know what the general point is. Make the most of it. 

 
So, an indicator that you "won" a debate is if the guy criticizing you starts getting into the minutiae of what the word "nobody" REALLY means and how you didn't use it correctly so that means your entire argument is wrong from this day forward.

Of course, context, nuance and language norms all go out the window in this type of attack.  But, hey, you won so there really is no need to go any further.

Let him criticize away.

 
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https://newspub.live/midwest/kenosha-county-ravaged-by-blm-riots-flips-red-after-decades-of-dem-leadership/

Kenosha County ravaged by BLM riots flips red after decades of Dem leadership

I think its been asked before ties between BLM and riots
I normally don't do this but...did a child write that article? What the hell? I honestly can't figure out what they are trying to say in most of that piece. 

And also, the county voted for Trump in 2016

Wisconsin’s Kenosha County government flipped purple for the primary time in a long time after town gained widespread consideration amid damaging riots and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial

It's the first time a girl will serve within the place and the primary time since a minimum of 1998 {that a} Republican has been elected

– The mom of a black man shot repeatedly within the again by Wisconsin police referred to as August 25 for calm after two nights of violent protests, as her lawyer stated it might take a “miracle” for her son to stroll once more.

 
I normally don't do this but...did a child write that article? What the hell? I honestly can't figure out what they are trying to say in most of that piece. 

And also, the county voted for Trump in 2016

Wisconsin’s Kenosha County government flipped purple for the primary time in a long time after town gained widespread consideration amid damaging riots and the Kyle Rittenhouse trial

It's the first time a girl will serve within the place and the primary time since a minimum of 1998 {that a} Republican has been elected

– The mom of a black man shot repeatedly within the again by Wisconsin police referred to as August 25 for calm after two nights of violent protests, as her lawyer stated it might take a “miracle” for her son to stroll once more.
Every article is credited to "PressRoom" and it appears they are mostly poorly paraphrased copies of FoxNews.  The grammar is atrocious.  Maybe it's an ESL algorithm. 

 
This happened all over the country.

Philadelphia was terrible. Chicago. Milwaukee. Everywhere. 

That dumb 93% peaceful study that came out was pure propaganda. 

It was all umbrella man's fault. Or the two white girls in LA with a can of spray paint. Or the girl in Madison that kicked an already broken window. Or the bricks in Dallas. 

Lol. Man our media sucks. Media apologists are terrible too.
Did the study say 93% of protests were peaceful or 93% of protesters were peaceful?  Both of those seem like they could be accurate.  There were lots of small, uneventful protests.  Even in these videos showing destruction, I see mobs of people and only a small percentage are actively causing destruction.  However, it was well known from the start that the "peaceful protests" were the distraction that allowed for the looting and destruction so the peaceful protesters bear a share of the responsibility.  It was a party and social media photo shoot for many of them.  They weren't causing destruction but didn't care that others were.  Some people even rationalized the looting and destruction as a sort of justice. 

 
Did the study say 93% of protests were peaceful or 93% of protesters were peaceful?  Both of those seem like they could be accurate.  There were lots of small, uneventful protests.  Even in these videos showing destruction, I see mobs of people and only a small percentage are actively causing destruction.  However, it was well known from the start that the "peaceful protests" were the distraction that allowed for the looting and destruction so the peaceful protesters bear a share of the responsibility.  It was a party and social media photo shoot for many of them.  They weren't causing destruction but didn't care that others were.  Some people even rationalized the looting and destruction as a sort of justice. 
Every protest where i live or that i attended was peaceful.   :shrug:   But hey I’ll let the folks who never went to a protest tell it.  

 
Every protest where i live or that i attended was peaceful.   :shrug:   But hey I’ll let the folks who never went to a protest tell it.  
True, I'm making judgments based upon what I read or saw in videos.  Were your protests in small towns or large cities?  My understanding is that the looting and destruction happened in the large cities, whereas smaller towns didn't usually experience those problems.

 
This smacks of the “ I went to the farmers market in Portland this morning and didn’t see any problems , so you all are full of #### “ nonsense that we read here before 
It’s no different than those saying they say a riot on tv so all protests were violent.   :shrug:   i posted studies up thread saying they mostly weren’t.  But again I’ll leave it to you tv watchers to call it.  
 

im curious though.  Every sports parade that occurs do you refer to those as riots also? 

 
It’s no different than those saying they say a riot on tv so all protests were violent.   :shrug:   i posted studies up thread saying they mostly weren’t.  But again I’ll leave it to you tv watchers to call it.  
 

im curious though.  Every sports parade that occurs do you refer to those as riots also? 
🙄
 

sure, except no one has said all protests were violent 

 
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It’s no different than those saying they say a riot on tv so all protests were violent.   :shrug:   i posted studies up thread saying they mostly weren’t.  But again I’ll leave it to you tv watchers to call it.  
 

im curious though.  Every sports parade that occurs do you refer to those as riots also? 
I'm confident in saying that the majority of protesters and protests in and around the three weeks of Chaz/Chop were peaceful.  Purely playing a numbers game.  But lets look at the results:

Positive(not really):  The major thing that the protesters wanted that they got was a reduction of Seattle's police force.  It went from 1200 officers to 900.  The current mayor is doing every thing he can to increase police numbers to combat skyrocketing crime.

Negative: Three young black teenagers dead.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage.

So instead of repeating over and over "mostly peaceful" let's concede that point and start asking ourselves is it worth it?

 
I'm confident in saying that the majority of protesters and protests in and around the three weeks of Chaz/Chop were peaceful.  Purely playing a numbers game.  But lets look at the results:

Positive(not really):  The major thing that the protesters wanted that they got was a reduction of Seattle's police force.  It went from 1200 officers to 900.  The current mayor is doing every thing he can to increase police numbers to combat skyrocketing crime.

Negative: Three young black teenagers dead.  Hundreds of thousands of dollars of damage.

So instead of repeating over and over "mostly peaceful" let's concede that point and start asking ourselves is it worth it?


Maybe just Portland, but Minneapolis/St. Paul suffered 500 MILLION in damage alone, so the havoc caused by BLM/Antifa is well into the billions.

 
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I think quibbling over the hyperbolic use of "nobody" vs. "the majority of people" is silly and a waste of time. You know what the general point is. Make the most of it. 


So, an indicator that you "won" a debate is if the guy criticizing you starts getting into the minutiae of what the word "nobody" REALLY means and how you didn't use it correctly so that means your entire argument is wrong from this day forward.

Of course, context, nuance and language norms all go out the window in this type of attack.  But, hey, you won so there really is no need to go any further.

Let him criticize away.
Who knew rock and BR were descendants of Nostradamus?  

🙄
 

sure, except no one has said all protests were violent 


Literally,  not one person in this thread has said ALL protests were violent. 

 
To rioting and looting, to arson.
I know lots of people who marched in the protests in 2020, including my own two daughters. I continue to have lots of friends, business acquaintances, tenants, involved with the Black Lives Matter movement. A couple of my tenants very proudly have the BLM sign on their retail windows. 

NONE of these people had or have anything to do with rioting, looting, or arson. I find it offensive that you and others continue to paint this false picture. It would be the same if I accused every Trump supporter of having participated in the January 6 riots. That would be wrong and this is wrong as well. 
 

It is also highly offensive to keep using the term “BLM/Antifa” as if they were one and the same. It would be no different if I were to use the term “MAGA/white supremacist”- I would never use that phrase because it would be both false and highly offensive. I am politely, respectfully asking everyone here to stop using the phrase “BLM/Antifa”. Thank you. 

 
I know lots of people who marched in the protests in 2020, including my own two daughters. I continue to have lots of friends, business acquaintances, tenants, involved with the


Black


Lives Matter movement. A couple of my tenants very proudly have the BLM sign on their retail windows. 

NONE of these people had or have anything to do with rioting, looting, or arson. I find it offensive that you and others continue to paint this false picture. It would be the same if I accused every Trump supporter of having participated in the January 6 riots. That would be wrong and this is wrong as well. 
 

It is also highly offensive to keep using the term “BLM/Antifa” as if they were one and the same. It would be no different if I were to use the term “MAGA/white supremacist”- I would never use that phrase because it would be both false and highly offensive. I am politely, respectfully asking everyone here to stop using the phrase “BLM/Antifa”. Thank you. 


They kind of almost are one in the same. 

They're associated with BLM because they banded together to wreak havoc on cities across the US.  Wherever BLM is, Antifa isn't far behind and neither is violence and destruction.  They're also both steeped in Marxist/Communist principles. 

Antifa are the modern day Sturmabteilung of the left, so wherever left-wing movements are you'll find Antifa. 

 
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They kind of almost are one in the same. 

Wherever BLM is, Antifa isn't far behind.  They're both steeped in Marxist/Communist principles.  Antifa are the modern day Sturmabteilung of the left, so wherever left-wing movements are you'll find Antifa.  They're associated with BLM because they banded together to wreak havoc on cities across the US.
I’m sorry Blade but almost everything in this post is false:

1. Antifa is steeped, not in Marxist or Communist principles, but in anarchy, which is 180 degrees different. The key to Communism is a powerful centralized government. The key to anarchy is no government at all. 

2. While some of the leaders of BLM are leftist and some are indeed Marxist, the BLM movement has no political philosophy. Their sole issue is that police and the justice system treat black people with dignity and respect. That is not a left or right issue. They are also not anarchists and have no connection with Antifa. 

3. Your analogy to the Stormtroopers is absurd. At the time that Hitler took power the SA numbered over 3 million men. They were well organized and under the command of a single man, Ernst Roehm. There are perhaps 500 members of Antifa in the country. They are not organized and have no leaders. They also have no connection with “left wing movements”.
 

4. BLM and Antifa have never “banded together” in any meaningful way. 

5. As I have pointed out to you numerous times, all evidence suggests that the vast majority of rioting, looting, arson after the George Floyd murder was performed not by BLM OR Antifa but by random street thugs unaffiliated with either group. The sole exceptions were in Seattle and Portland, both of which had a more organized takeover of certain areas. But what I just wrote is largely true of every other major city. 
 

If you care to challenge any aspect of what I wrote above please do so. I can back everything up with facts if you’d like. 

 
I think quibbling over the hyperbolic use of "nobody" vs. "the majority of people" is silly and a waste of time. You know what the general point is. Make the most of it. 
YOU said 'nobody'.  I merely pointed out that that wasn't accurate-it's also not remotely verifiable..  I didn't get into any minutiae of anything @BladeRunner.

@rockaction 's comments about bull#### organizations, etc  are opinions I specifically didn't comment on, as I steer clear of engaging with folks who comment in this thread as you do.  I didn't attempt to 'win' anything.  Just pointing out an obvious error.  And 'nobody' vs 'majority of people'  is definitely not a quibble.  They are different, period.  The world is a big place.  Not everyone thinks like you.

 
Link to Antifa only having 500 members. TIA. 
That’s an educated guess based on the facts that (a) they only show up in big cities and (b) when they do show up it’s usually less than 10 people, never more than 20. We really don’t know what their numbers are; they don’t advertise. It is also extremely likely that some folks dress in in black clothing and masks and behave like Antifa but aren’t affiliated with any organization. There is no centralized organization (which makes sense because they’re anarchists!) 

 
That’s an educated guess based on the facts that (a) they only show up in big cities and (b) when they do show up it’s usually less than 10 people, never more than 20. We really don’t know what their numbers are; they don’t advertise. It is also extremely likely that some folks dress in in black clothing and masks and behave like Antifa but aren’t affiliated with any organization. There is no centralized organization (which makes sense because they’re anarchists!) 
A guess? So you can't backup everything you said with facts. Got it. 

 
A guess? So you can't backup everything you said with facts. Got it. 
An educated guess. But if you want me to admit that I can’t back that part up, fine. I don’t want to have this sort of ticky tack argument with you or anyone else, I don’t think it serves any purpose. If you disagree with anything I wrote, then please tell me the exact nature of your disagreement and reason for it. But let’s not try to catch each other out. It’s boring. 

 
An educated guess. But if you want me to admit that I can’t back that part up, fine. I don’t want to have this sort of ticky tack argument with you or anyone else, I don’t think it serves any purpose. If you disagree with anything I wrote, then please tell me the exact nature of your disagreement and reason for it. But let’s not try to catch each other out. It’s boring. 
I dont have any interest.  I just picked the most obvious and instead of facts you tried to explain how your thought process works. That's not backing things up with facts.  

 
July 2015, dozens of Black Lives Matter activists took over the stage at an event featuring Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders. Activists, including Black Lives Matter co-founder Patrisse Cullors, asked both candidates for specific policy proposals to address deaths in police custody. The protesters chanted several slogans, including "if I die in police custody, burn everything down" and "Shut this crap down". The expression "Shut it down" would go on to become a popular phrase in Black Lives Matter protests and on social media
A protest organized by co-founder Patrisse Cullors, after they took over Bernie Sanders stage, encouraged violence by shouting among other things "burn everything down".  

That is taken from Wiki where you can find footnote links, you know "facts", citing reports that documented that it actually happened.  

 
That’s an educated guess based on the facts that (a) they only show up in big cities and (b) when they do show up it’s usually less than 10 people, never more than 20. We really don’t know what their numbers are; they don’t advertise. It is also extremely likely that some folks dress in in black clothing and masks and behave like Antifa but aren’t affiliated with any organization. There is no centralized organization (which makes sense because they’re anarchists!) 


You said this:

If you care to challenge any aspect of what I wrote above please do so. I can back everything up with facts if you’d like. 

Than you post this...that is funny stuff.

 
A protest organized by co-founder Patrisse Cullors, after they took over Bernie Sanders stage, encouraged violence by shouting among other things "burn everything down".  

That is taken from Wiki where you can find footnote links, you know "facts", citing reports that documented that it actually happened.  
Tim doesn't want to talk facts.  He "just knows," but don't ask him to back it up.  He can back up EVERYTHING he says...until he can't.  :lol:  

Thanks for the comedy, Tim. You deliver every time. :yes:  

 
5. As I have pointed out to you numerous times, all evidence suggests that the vast majority of rioting, looting, arson after the George Floyd murder was performed not by BLM OR Antifa but by random street thugs unaffiliated with either group. The sole exceptions were in Seattle and Portland, both of which had a more organized takeover of certain areas. But what I just wrote is largely true of every other major city. 
So it's a statistical anomaly that in these cases it just so happens all these unaffiliated thugs show up?  It's not like there's a BLM membership card these guys carry around with them.  Just like Antifa, there's no membership roster.  So how many members there are, who they are, who is to say? 

It's simply not true that violence hasn't occurred in correlation with many BLM protests.  It is true MOST of the people protesting are not the ones perpetrating these crimes.  I don't think anyone here is saying that most people who were there or support the movement were involved in these criminal acts, but these aren't coincidental events, they are correlated.  

 

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