Braces for kids - paging Dentist. (1 Viewer)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Girls are 8 & 10.

Orthodontists are suggesting spacers and then braces. They say by going it now they will "likely" not need them later. They say this method "may" eliminate unnecessary extractions.

What's the FBG theory? Is this the new and improved way of doing things or the new and yet unproven method?

Will answer yours.

 

[James Daulton]

Braces are a scam invented by orthodontist.

Please for the love of god tell me WTF cost $6,000+ for a set of braces. I'd love to understand.

 

[matuski]

At 8 have you even lost all your teeth? My 8 year old hasn't.

 

[Fennis]

Shouldn't you be paging Orthodontist?

 

[trogg78]

My daughter needs a spacer because she has two spaces where adult teeth aren't there behind the baby teeth. She is 8. $1500

 

[shadyridr]

I had braces, a spacer, and retainer for five years. The spacer was ####### torture. I still have an overbite today.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Our insurance is impeccable so the $$$ isn't an issue others then it only covers braces for our children once per LIFETIME.

In other words... If they need braces later on, they won't be covered. Now I've never heard of someone getting braces twice as a child. I get that they may decide to get things straightened out much further down the road but they would conceivably have their own insurance by then.

 

[shadyridr]

Never heard of someone getting braces twice

 

[Clown Car]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

 

[James Daulton]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

Yeah I really can't wait to hear from Dentist on this one, because it sounds exactly like you describe it.

The money aspect is one thing, but putting your kids through double the dental work, taking them out of school earlier and more often, not to mention the aggravation/pain from it all.

I want to do whatever is best for my kids, hence this thread.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Consider yourself lucky steady....ive never seen an insurance company that covers braces even once.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

Yeah I really can't wait to hear from Dentist on this one, because it sounds exactly like you describe it.

The money aspect is one thing, but putting your kids through double the dental work, taking them out of school earlier and more often, not to mention the aggravation/pain from it all.

I want to do whatever is best for my kids, hence this thread.

My son got them early, probably around 8-9 years old. He's 14 now and his teeth are near perfect, but they said he could use to have a second round of braces. They said it was up to us as it would only be cosmetic to make them "perfect". I am definitely in the camp of being suspicious of the double-dip here, but at least in his case, the early round of braces seemed to do the job, or good enough.

I also have a daughter who is 11 and just got braces for the first, and I'm sure only, time. So, I guess its case-by-case? At least it doesn't appear they are trying to double-dip on every kid as a rule.

 

[Dentist]

An upstanding orthodontist will only brace up a kid early on if it's a particularly horrible case whereby without some earlier intervention it's going to become a nightmare case later on in life.

I'm sure there are orthodontists cash grabbing people.

There are also parents that "over-care" about their child's appearance at an early age and demand that little Johnny/Suzie has some straight teeth early in life.. Almost as if early braces are some type of status symbol... so orthodontists have had to respond to and offer those types of services that people wanted.

I'm seeing about 1/10-15 kids I send in for an early consult due to early issues I see end up getting some type of retainer or braces... so I figure that's probably the correct ratio for an upstanding orthodontist.

 

[Dentist]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

 

[James Daulton]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

 

[Courtjester]

Our insurance is impeccable so the $$$ isn't an issue others then it only covers braces for our children once per LIFETIME.

In other words... If they need braces later on, they won't be covered. Now I've never heard of someone getting braces twice as a child. I get that they may decide to get things straightened out much further down the road but they would conceivably have their own insurance by then.

You story is word for word what happened to our daughter. Did the spacer/braces when she was 9 even though she still had baby teeth. Flash forward, braces come off. She has two final adult top teeth come in and they come in off. So now they want braces back on for this one section of her mouth that two teeth are off--which off course I have to pay the full cost for because my insurance, like yours, only covers it once.

Early braces are a scam as far as I am concerned. Baby teeth need to fall out first then you worry about getting the adult teeth straight IMO.

 

[Dentist]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

wouldn't you charge what the market would bear for your services? How can you know what price is or isn't justified without knowing all the costs associated with running the business? You think the price is just the wires and brackets? what about the facility, the employees, the sterilization equipment, the x-ray equipment, the taxes, the cost of acquiring that education in the first place.

It's just like the argument that there is no way a beer should cost $5-6 at a bar when you can get a six pack for that much.. you're not paying really for the beer... it's the facility, employees, their overhead etc.

You act like these people are predatory for an elective service

 

[Dentist]

Our insurance is impeccable so the $$$ isn't an issue others then it only covers braces for our children once per LIFETIME.

In other words... If they need braces later on, they won't be covered. Now I've never heard of someone getting braces twice as a child. I get that they may decide to get things straightened out much further down the road but they would conceivably have their own insurance by then.

You story is word for word what happened to our daughter. Did the spacer/braces when she was 9 even though she still had baby teeth. Flash forward, braces come off. She has two final adult top teeth come in and they come in off. So now they want braces back on for this one section of her mouth that two teeth are off--which off course I have to pay the full cost for because my insurance, like yours, only covers it once.

Early braces are a scam as far as I am concerned. Baby teeth need to fall out first then you worry about getting the adult teeth straight IMO.

How did you feel you were scammed on the case... like the person duped you into doing it?

 

[James Daulton]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

wouldn't you charge what the market would bear for your services? How can you know what price is or isn't justified without knowing all the costs associated with running the business? You think the price is just the wires and brackets? what about the facility, the employees, the sterilization equipment, the x-ray equipment, the taxes, the cost of acquiring that education in the first place.

It's just like the argument that there is no way a beer should cost $5-6 at a bar when you can get a six pack for that much.. you're not paying really for the beer... it's the facility, employees, their overhead etc.

You act like these people are predatory for an elective service

lol, like I said, I work with tons of doctors so I have a very good idea about how much all that stuff cost.

And I do think they are predatory because the service is hardly elective when it largely is geared to kids. You're obviously to close to be objective.

Let me give you a comparison, braces cost roughly the same as a set of breast implants. The implants are put in by a surgeon who's had more education than the orthodontist, the implants themselves cost around $2k. The surgeon has to have an office, operating room, and skilled support staff to do surgery on the patient. However, implants are not done on children so adults have to make real world decisions without the emotional impact of their impending kid's future hanging over them.

Yes, braces are significantly overprices.

 

[Cjw_55106]

Over priced? Probably. Hardly elective? Not a chance.

If they are going to be runied for life without them, the kids can get them for themselves when they are older.

 

[Dentist]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

wouldn't you charge what the market would bear for your services? How can you know what price is or isn't justified without knowing all the costs associated with running the business? You think the price is just the wires and brackets? what about the facility, the employees, the sterilization equipment, the x-ray equipment, the taxes, the cost of acquiring that education in the first place.

It's just like the argument that there is no way a beer should cost $5-6 at a bar when you can get a six pack for that much.. you're not paying really for the beer... it's the facility, employees, their overhead etc.

You act like these people are predatory for an elective service

lol, like I said, I work with tons of doctors so I have a very good idea about how much all that stuff cost.

And I do think they are predatory because the service is hardly elective when it largely is geared to kids. You're obviously to close to be objective.

Let me give you a comparison, braces cost roughly the same as a set of breast implants. The implants are put in by a surgeon who's had more education than the orthodontist, the implants themselves cost around $2k. The surgeon has to have an office, operating room, and skilled support staff to do surgery on the patient. However, implants are not done on children so adults have to make real world decisions without the emotional impact of their impending kid's future hanging over them.

Yes, braces are significantly overprices.

I haven't made one dollar off of braces in my entire life.

But I don't feel like elective services can be overpriced... my issue is with the idea of it being a scam or predatory.

That would be like saying porcelain veneers or dental whitening are over-priced... well fine no one has to have them.. don't get it if you don't like the price.

Orthodontists have 4 years college, 4 years dental school, 3 years ortho training.. how much more is a plastics guy? maybe a year? 2?

 

[pantagrapher]

Never heard of someone getting braces twice

I have them now for the second time.

Wear your retainers, kids.

 

[James Daulton]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

wouldn't you charge what the market would bear for your services? How can you know what price is or isn't justified without knowing all the costs associated with running the business? You think the price is just the wires and brackets? what about the facility, the employees, the sterilization equipment, the x-ray equipment, the taxes, the cost of acquiring that education in the first place.

It's just like the argument that there is no way a beer should cost $5-6 at a bar when you can get a six pack for that much.. you're not paying really for the beer... it's the facility, employees, their overhead etc.

You act like these people are predatory for an elective service

lol, like I said, I work with tons of doctors so I have a very good idea about how much all that stuff cost.

And I do think they are predatory because the service is hardly elective when it largely is geared to kids. You're obviously to close to be objective.

Let me give you a comparison, braces cost roughly the same as a set of breast implants. The implants are put in by a surgeon who's had more education than the orthodontist, the implants themselves cost around $2k. The surgeon has to have an office, operating room, and skilled support staff to do surgery on the patient. However, implants are not done on children so adults have to make real world decisions without the emotional impact of their impending kid's future hanging over them.

Yes, braces are significantly overprices.

I haven't made one dollar off of braces in my entire life.

But I don't feel like elective services can be overpriced... my issue is with the idea of it being a scam or predatory.

That would be like saying porcelain veneers or dental whitening are over-priced... well fine no one has to have them.. don't get it if you don't like the price.

Orthodontists have 4 years college, 4 years dental school, 3 years ortho training.. how much more is a plastics guy? maybe a year? 2?

My comment wasn't that you made money from braces. Just that you're in the profession peripherally so you're close to it. Notice I haven't said that dental procedures like bridges, crowns, etc are overpriced even though these are very expensive.

And you don't think elective procedures geared to children can be overprices? The emotional aspect when it comes to kids is huge and drives much of the decision. I gave you a very good comparison for a completely elective procedure, one done by a more educated and skilled medical professional, but not geared toward kids.

Plastic surgeons have at the minimum 5 years of residency once they've finished medical school (that's 13 years), then most have a 2 year fellowship before they're ready to practice. That's 15 years.

Plus, we're talking about medical doctors who deal with human lives, not teeth.

I respect the dental profession completely, it's just this segment of it that gets under my skin. Mind you I've had a wife who's had braces twice (once as a teen), a daughter who's had them twice, and a son who's had them once. So I'm about $20k deep into this.

 

[Dentist]

My comment wasn't that you made money from braces. Just that you're in the profession peripherally so you're close to it. Notice I haven't said that dental procedures like bridges, crowns, etc are overpriced even though these are very expensive.

And you don't think elective procedures geared to children can be overprices? The emotional aspect when it comes to kids is huge and drives much of the decision. I gave you a very good comparison for a completely elective procedure, one done by a more educated and skilled medical professional, but not geared toward kids.

Plastic surgeons have at the minimum 5 years of residency once they've finished medical school (that's 13 years), then most have a 2 year fellowship before they're ready to practice. That's 15 years.

Plus, we're talking about medical doctors who deal with human lives, not teeth.

I respect the dental profession completely, it's just this segment of it that gets under my skin. Mind you I've had a wife who's had braces twice (once as a teen), a daughter who's had them twice, and a son who's had them once. So I'm about $20k deep into this.

I don't think anything elective can be over-priced. That would be like me complaining about the prices of homes being too high in my area or the prices of new cars being too high. I can biologically survive with a crappy apartment or an older used car just like Suzie can biologically survive with crooked teeth.

The market drives the price. If collectively everyone took a stand against the price of braces and stopped buying, the price would come down most likely.

Same with the breast implants you speak of. That's the market price in your area, most likely driven by supply/demand. If the doctor in question could get away with charging 10-12K for those same implants he would do so.

I just don't agree with the premise from a market driven cost perspective. It wouldn't matter if we were talking about braces or hip replacement. If the hip replacement is too high, opt for the wheelchair/scooter.

 

[James Daulton]

My comment wasn't that you made money from braces. Just that you're in the profession peripherally so you're close to it. Notice I haven't said that dental procedures like bridges, crowns, etc are overpriced even though these are very expensive.

And you don't think elective procedures geared to children can be overprices? The emotional aspect when it comes to kids is huge and drives much of the decision. I gave you a very good comparison for a completely elective procedure, one done by a more educated and skilled medical professional, but not geared toward kids.

Plastic surgeons have at the minimum 5 years of residency once they've finished medical school (that's 13 years), then most have a 2 year fellowship before they're ready to practice. That's 15 years.

Plus, we're talking about medical doctors who deal with human lives, not teeth.

I respect the dental profession completely, it's just this segment of it that gets under my skin. Mind you I've had a wife who's had braces twice (once as a teen), a daughter who's had them twice, and a son who's had them once. So I'm about $20k deep into this.

I don't think anything elective can be over-priced. That would be like me complaining about the prices of homes being too high in my area or the prices of new cars being too high. I can biologically survive with a crappy apartment or an older used car just like Suzie can biologically survive with crooked teeth.

The market drives the price. If collectively everyone took a stand against the price of braces and stopped buying, the price would come down most likely.

Same with the breast implants you speak of. That's the market price in your area, most likely driven by supply/demand. If the doctor in question could get away with charging 10-12K for those same implants he would do so.

I just don't agree with the premise from a market driven cost perspective. It wouldn't matter if we were talking about braces or hip replacement. If the hip replacement is too high, opt for the wheelchair/scooter.

That's cool, I get where you're coming from. I think though the example I have given you shows very clearly that the market is not driven by cost near as much when children are involved. Orthodontists taking advantage of this = jackasses imho. Plus you have the whole, "well it looks like braces are needed again" angle.

But I get that you don't agree. As I said, it's only my opinion.

I'll give you a story. My daughter had braces from roughly 10 until 13. Less than a year later, she was going for a post-braces follow up and the orthodontist was like "her teeth have shifted, she needs braces again." The wife was there and says, ok, since you took the braces off just recently, we don't have to pay for the new set do we? The orthodontist, says of course we do. Wife is hysterical at home, I suggest she talk to our dentist whom my wife has a good relationship with. The dentist is appalled, calls the orthodontist, and lo and behold, the orthodontist calls and agrees to put the braces back on for free. What would have cost us $6k plus (mind you I've noted how much I've spent with the orthodontist earlier) is now being done free so the orthodontist doesn't jeopardize a referral source.

Greedy greedy jackasses.

 

[TenTimes]

Twice is the new normal. They get them around 8 for a while then again at 12. I opted not to do that with my girls. One was 14, the other two were 13.

Yup, and why is this? So orthodonist get paid twice. I'm not usually a cynical guy about what medical professionals get paid, but with these these dudes I most definitely am.

People are generally skeptical about anyone making a lot of money.. they always think scam first these days sadly.. I get that, it's part of what we signed up for in the medical profession.

But I'm not sure why that is... everyone has a choice every single time. No one is ever holding anyone down to do a procedure. You can always decline, choose another provider, get a second opinion, etc.

If you don't want the 2 rounds of braces, don't do it.. it's really that easy... there's no reason to get cynical over it.

I work with tons of medical professional who make tons of money, that's not the issue. My issue is specifically with orthodontist and braces. Even without the double dipping, they know they have the parents by the short hairs when it comes to the parents kids and future appearance. To compound that, they charge an ungodly amount of money for material that can't possibly be that expensive plus a series of office visits. No way no how is $6k+ justified. They charge it because they have a client who would likely do anything possible for their children.

I get what you're saying, but imo the companies selling cell phone accessories and HDMI cables are much worse than orthodontists when it comes to this, just a much smaller scale. Phone chargers are about 80-90% margain.

 

[Dentist]

My comment wasn't that you made money from braces. Just that you're in the profession peripherally so you're close to it. Notice I haven't said that dental procedures like bridges, crowns, etc are overpriced even though these are very expensive.

And you don't think elective procedures geared to children can be overprices? The emotional aspect when it comes to kids is huge and drives much of the decision. I gave you a very good comparison for a completely elective procedure, one done by a more educated and skilled medical professional, but not geared toward kids.

Plastic surgeons have at the minimum 5 years of residency once they've finished medical school (that's 13 years), then most have a 2 year fellowship before they're ready to practice. That's 15 years.

Plus, we're talking about medical doctors who deal with human lives, not teeth.

I respect the dental profession completely, it's just this segment of it that gets under my skin. Mind you I've had a wife who's had braces twice (once as a teen), a daughter who's had them twice, and a son who's had them once. So I'm about $20k deep into this.

I don't think anything elective can be over-priced. That would be like me complaining about the prices of homes being too high in my area or the prices of new cars being too high. I can biologically survive with a crappy apartment or an older used car just like Suzie can biologically survive with crooked teeth.

The market drives the price. If collectively everyone took a stand against the price of braces and stopped buying, the price would come down most likely.

Same with the breast implants you speak of. That's the market price in your area, most likely driven by supply/demand. If the doctor in question could get away with charging 10-12K for those same implants he would do so.

I just don't agree with the premise from a market driven cost perspective. It wouldn't matter if we were talking about braces or hip replacement. If the hip replacement is too high, opt for the wheelchair/scooter.

That's cool, I get where you're coming from. I think though the example I have given you shows very clearly that the market is not driven by cost near as much when children are involved. Orthodontists taking advantage of this = jackasses imho. Plus you have the whole, "well it looks like braces are needed again" angle.

But I get that you don't agree. As I said, it's only my opinion.

I'll give you a story. My daughter had braces from roughly 10 until 13. Less than a year later, she was going for a post-braces follow up and the orthodontist was like "her teeth have shifted, she needs braces again." The wife was there and says, ok, since you took the braces off just recently, we don't have to pay for the new set do we? The orthodontist, says of course we do. Wife is hysterical at home, I suggest she talk to our dentist whom my wife has a good relationship with. The dentist is appalled, calls the orthodontist, and lo and behold, the orthodontist calls and agrees to put the braces back on for free. What would have cost us $6k plus (mind you I've noted how much I've spent with the orthodontist earlier) is now being done free so the orthodontist doesn't jeopardize a referral source.

Greedy greedy jackasses.

i remember that thread. And I can understand your frustration with that process. In that particular case I agree that was some jackassery.

Certainly not all orthodontists are legitimate people... i know a real basspole in my area that isn't just unethical.. calling him a crook would be unkind to petty thieves.

I do feel like the profession as a whole is mostly full of great and ethical people... but most certainly the crooks make it hard to trust everyone as a whole. Unethical doctors deserve a hot place in hell.

What's crazy though is that EVERY single doctor/dentist in America, even the ones worthy of sainthood, have someone (and in many case a few someone's) that went to their office and for some reason they were shady/greedy/basspole

 

[DA RAIDERS]

.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Our insurance is impeccable so the $$$ isn't an issue others then it only covers braces for our children once per LIFETIME.

In other words... If they need braces later on, they won't be covered. Now I've never heard of someone getting braces twice as a child. I get that they may decide to get things straightened out much further down the road but they would conceivably have their own insurance by then.

You story is word for word what happened to our daughter. Did the spacer/braces when she was 9 even though she still had baby teeth. Flash forward, braces come off. She has two final adult top teeth come in and they come in off. So now they want braces back on for this one section of her mouth that two teeth are off--which off course I have to pay the full cost for because my insurance, like yours, only covers it once.

Early braces are a scam as far as I am concerned. Baby teeth need to fall out first then you worry about getting the adult teeth straight IMO.

How did you feel you were scammed on the case... like the person duped you into doing it?

Won't answer for him, but I would think a lot of people go see medical, legal (etc) professionals (briefly, people who require advanced schooling to be able to do what they do) as someone you should be able to trust. I don't have several years of specialized training to determine if my child needs braces. I expect the dentist/orthodontist to give me a good recomendation. I don't have the knowledge to make my own educated decision, so the choice is to go with the educated person, or go with your gut.

I actually got into a yelling match with my orthodontist when I refused to put braces on my second child, and accused him of outlandish billing for the consultation. In that "conversation" he said something very telling to me. He said that in all his years of doing this (he's about to retire, so that's been a long time) he's only had two people turn down his recomendation for braces. That tells me that a lot of people just trust what their dentist is telling them to do. Maybe that is a problem with the customer being too gullible, but on the flip side, if most dentists (for the sake of arguement) recomend braces just to line their pocketbooks, what's the value of a second opinion?

 

[Dentist]

Our insurance is impeccable so the $$$ isn't an issue others then it only covers braces for our children once per LIFETIME.

In other words... If they need braces later on, they won't be covered. Now I've never heard of someone getting braces twice as a child. I get that they may decide to get things straightened out much further down the road but they would conceivably have their own insurance by then.

You story is word for word what happened to our daughter. Did the spacer/braces when she was 9 even though she still had baby teeth. Flash forward, braces come off. She has two final adult top teeth come in and they come in off. So now they want braces back on for this one section of her mouth that two teeth are off--which off course I have to pay the full cost for because my insurance, like yours, only covers it once.

Early braces are a scam as far as I am concerned. Baby teeth need to fall out first then you worry about getting the adult teeth straight IMO.

How did you feel you were scammed on the case... like the person duped you into doing it?

Won't answer for him, but I would think a lot of people go see medical, legal (etc) professionals (briefly, people who require advanced schooling to be able to do what they do) as someone you should be able to trust. I don't have several years of specialized training to determine if my child needs braces. I expect the dentist/orthodontist to give me a good recomendation. I don't have the knowledge to make my own educated decision, so the choice is to go with the educated person, or go with your gut.

I actually got into a yelling match with my orthodontist when I refused to put braces on my second child, and accused him of outlandish billing for the consultation. In that "conversation" he said something very telling to me. He said that in all his years of doing this (he's about to retire, so that's been a long time) he's only had two people turn down his recomendation for braces. That tells me that a lot of people just trust what their dentist is telling them to do. Maybe that is a problem with the customer being too gullible, but on the flip side, if most dentists (for the sake of arguement) recomend braces just to line their pocketbooks, what's the value of a second opinion?

He fed you a MASSIVE line of garbage.

I have a good friend who lives far away from him (so we don't do referral business or anything) who says the average case acceptance rate when he goes to sell a case is between 50-60% TOPS... and that his percentage is in line with what his consultants tell him national averages are... and in line with the numbers when he compares case acceptance with friends/colleagues.

So people are hearing what orthodontists say... and turning them down a LOT.

My buddy estimates that some of the time those people probably end up using another provider, but a lot of the time they are probably just passing on braces as a whole.

So I'd say there's a lot of people hearing an educated opinion and still deciding against it.

 

[odin33]

Just took my 7 yo daughter in for a cleaning. I was told she has a small mouth and doesn't have the typical overbite you'd like to see from someone who has only lost one tooth to date. (Her baby teeth came in very late but perfect which I'm guessing is an issue with the larger adult ones.) Re-evaluate at the next visit.

I see J. Daulton quoting $6k. Is that the norm these days? I know location and requirements change the number greatly, just trying to get a range.

Need to know how much of the money I'm hiding needs to be found.

TIA

 

[JaxBill]

I have two teenage boys. The younger one got his badly needed braces around 13. His situation was worse than my older son who just got his braces to straighten out some teeth right before senior year.

Both times they were around 5k and my dental insurance picked up half. Considering that the orthodontist is spacing out the payments over18 months and the number of checkups involved, I don't think that's unreasonable. My younger son must have had a dozen follow-ups.

As far as orthodontists trying to sell you a bill of goods, I'd worry more about your dentist. We didn't set foot in an orthodontist's office until our regular dentist suggested it.

 

[James Daulton]

Just took my 7 yo daughter in for a cleaning. I was told she has a small mouth and doesn't have the typical overbite you'd like to see from someone who has only lost one tooth to date. (Her baby teeth came in very late but perfect which I'm guessing is an issue with the larger adult ones.) Re-evaluate at the next visit.

I see J. Daulton quoting $6k. Is that the norm these days? I know location and requirements change the number greatly, just trying to get a range.

Need to know how much of the money I'm hiding needs to be found.

TIA

That's how much I paid. I live in Maryland so maybe that's more on the high end. I will say that you should take advantage of a flex spending plan if your work offers one.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I'm also in MD and signed up both girls for braces, $2,900 each.

 

[James Daulton]

I'm also in MD and signed up both girls for braces, $2,900 each.

Those have to be some kind of partial braces. I've never heard of anyone getting them that cheaply before.

 

[BroadwayG]

JD did you order your braces from an unmarked white van with no windows?

 

[James Daulton]

JD did you order your braces from an unmarked white van with no windows?

Nope, went to the dentist-recommended braces factory.

In hindsight, the white van option would have likely been a better choice.

 

[Kanil]

Mrs. Kanil recently got braces for TMD. She started with invisalign but it was causing her to constantly clench her jaw when she slept which was making the TMD worse. Our ortho suggested going to regular braces, at which point all I heard was his cash register filling up. When we asked him how much it would be to go to normal braces he said no charge, we paid to have TMD fixed and he would fix it for that price. Total cost is $4500 but work covered 3k of it.

Just wanted to throw out a good ortho story since all you ever hear are the bad ones.

 

[The Big Guy]

Invisalign vs Clear Correct?  Is there a difference other than pricing or does any of that matter in this case and it is just like Coke vs Pepsi?  @Dentist any thoughts for assistance here please.

 

[Dentist]

Invisalign vs Clear Correct?  Is there a difference other than pricing or does any of that matter in this case and it is just like Coke vs Pepsi?  @Dentist any thoughts for assistance here please.

i think invisalign owns them both.   So it's like if Coke bought Pepsi

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Was just quoted $6,300 for my 12 year old this morning. fml

 

[Dentist]

Was just quoted $6,300 for my 12 year old this morning. fml

That's about right... area dependent of course..  but that's just a few ticks higher than the usual rate here

 

[Cjw_55106]

That's about right... area dependent of course..  but that's just a few ticks higher than the usual rate here

Does that usually include all of the costs? Monthly tightening, follow-up visits, etc? 

 

[Dentist]

Does that usually include all of the costs? Monthly tightening, follow-up visits, etc? 

usually orthodontists quote all-inclusive fees,  but you should ask if it includes a retainer,  fixed retainer for the lower teeth,  includes positioning of the second molars.

These are the areas where orthodontists who like to quote a low fee seem to take away to be able to quote that fee.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

usually orthodontists quote all-inclusive fees,  but you should ask if it includes a retainer,  fixed retainer for the lower teeth,  includes positioning of the second molars.

These are the areas where orthodontists who like to quote a low fee seem to take away to be able to quote that fee.

In my case, this fee quote is supposedly "all-in", but I've got essentially nothing in writing from the ortho on that. I don't want to get lawyerly on it with him, but I need to have a clear understanding of what is covered by this fee and where the gaps might be. My wife specifically asked what happens if he bashes his mouth playing sports and the braces get wrecked, was told that's all covered.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

In my case, this fee quote is supposedly "all-in", but I've got essentially nothing in writing from the ortho on that. I don't want to get lawyerly on it with him, but I need to have a clear understanding of what is covered by this fee and where the gaps might be. My wife specifically asked what happens if he bashes his mouth playing sports and the braces get wrecked, was told that's all covered.

 Everything was covered on ours except for cost to replace the retainers my daughter lost. 

 Speaking of which, stay on top of your kid when it comes to their retainer.  My daughter lost one in a napkin that the dog got to and another one we lost on Super Bowl Sunday when she stuffed it in in a napkin and apparently the retainer got thrown away. ( I think my daughter actually lost it prior to that because I checked over 16 trash bags and went through them with rubber gloves and a maskon piece by piece, chicken wing by chicken wing.)

those retainers were $300 each.

 

[glvsav37]

following:

My 12 year old is going in for hers Thursday (next week). Her teeth are a wreck.

@Dentist Side question: My daughter has had Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis since 3 and the meds she is on is not good for the enamel on her teeth, so they are starting to discolor and spot. What can we/should we do about it? I'm gonna pay for these braces straighten them out, but I want them to be nice when we are done.
 
 

 

[Dentist]

following:

My 12 year old is going in for hers Thursday (next week). Her teeth are a wreck.

@Dentist Side question: My daughter has had Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis since 3 and the meds she is on is not good for the enamel on her teeth, so they are starting to discolor and spot. What can we/should we do about it? I'm gonna pay for these braces straighten them out, but I want them to be nice when we are done.
 
 

I don't know much about that condition.   Have any pics?  This is definitely something I'd ask the ortho and your Generalist about prior to beginning

 

[sbonomo]

 Everything was covered on ours except for cost to replace the retainers my daughter lost. 

 Speaking of which, stay on top of your kid when it comes to their retainer.  My daughter lost one in a napkin that the dog got to and another one we lost on Super Bowl Sunday when she stuffed it in in a napkin and apparently the retainer got thrown away. ( I think my daughter actually lost it prior to that because I checked over 16 trash bags and went through them with rubber gloves and a maskon piece by piece, chicken wing by chicken wing.)

those retainers were $300 each.

why would you do this and not her?