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Brady vs. Montana - who is greater all-time? (1 Viewer)

Who is the greater all-time QB?

  • Brady

    Votes: 99 39.3%

  • Montana

    Votes: 153 60.7%
  • Total voters
    252
Just Win Baby said:
bostonfred said:
12punch is exactly right on this. the defenders back then were allowed to hit qbs a lot more often. That's true. but his point is that the defenders today are bigger and stronger. That's also true. Shouldn't even be a controversial statement.
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Yes, defenders are bigger, stronger, and faster today. But:

- The difference is probably not significant. The best defenders in Montana's era (e.g., Lott, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Randy White, etc.) would all have been elite in Brady's era IMO.

- Offensive players, including those who protect the QB, are also bigger, stronger, and faster today.

- And rules protect QBs more today by a significant amount.

The net result is that it is easier in today's era to excel at QB than it was in Montana's era. This should not be a controversial statement.
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Don't forget these QB friendly rules are quite recent. Brady started in a different time, very similar to the league Montana played in. Where you could hit the QB. Where WRs could be covered. It has changed now, but Brady was still a good QB in that time.

 
Brady did have a huge impact on the game. The NFL changed the rules on hitting QBs after a combination of him getting hurt and screaming at officials.

 
When talking size of defenders, why are we comparing a defensive lineman to a speed LB? Completely different positions...LT is not a reasonable comp. to Mario. Maybe Reggie White is someone worth looking at - 6'5", 300 lbs.

Yeas, guys ate bigger these days, but, IMO, the difference is neglible. We aren't talking about the 60's here.

Its also not true that QB's were open game back then. Iirc, they started screwing around with 'in the grasp' in the late '80's.

 
The problem I have with these discussions is that we take a career's worth of accomplishments and overemphasize a handful of games (SBs).

Change the outcome of two SB games either way and this conversation is not even taking place. If Montana went 2-2. If Brady went 6-0. If Brady went 2-4. Even if we changed the outcome of one SB for each player and the entire discussion changes. That one game represents less than 1% of the games each guy played. And as already discussed, in Brady's case in particular, the outcomes of all the Pats' SBs could have been different and could have changed based on NE's defense or special teams.

 
Yes, 2 lucky circus catches (almost 3!) and a Welker drop... not even a doubt. SB results are hugely important because that's the goal of , well, everything. Making it to 6, which no other QB has ever accomplished, cannot be underestimated. Cream of the crop.

 
AngryPatriot said:
Yes, 2 lucky circus catches (almost 3!) and a Welker drop... not even a doubt. SB results are hugely important because that's the goal of , well, everything. Making it to 6, which no other QB has ever accomplished, cannot be underestimated. Cream of the crop.
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Absolutely no bias here.
 
are u kidding me? Like this was a close decision LOL, Montana is the best QB of all time and I put JU second. JU invented the 2 minute offense and I should have him first, but I have to put Montana first as much as it pains me.

 
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Remember that time when Montana was suspended for cheating and trying to gain an advantage by breaking the rules...

I don't remember that time either :shrug:

 
You can point to just W/L when taking about Brady but that's a stat and he will be in the record books for those. When you are talking greatest it goes beyond just how many TDs you threw.

People can point to all sorts of thing like stick-um on receivers hands and things like that but the difference is that the Patriots have been caught twice during his career for bending the rules so far that the NFL had no choice but to take action.

Back in the 80's was the NFL looking the other way on stick'em? Same with pine tar with pitchers in todays MLB. There is a difference between what is common place and what is over the line. Common place is teams just destroying the ball to break it in but what is not common place is submitting a football for inspection, sneaking back in to change air pressure, and then covering the whole thing up when someone blew the whistle on it.

Brady is the best QB ever to throw away his legacy. A lot of people over looked spy gate and still count the Super Bowl rings for Brady but after this latest scandal I feel this will stick with him forever as he just doesn't have enough career left to make it disappear and even if he succeeds you gotta ask what are they up to now.

PS - I changed my vote today when I saw this thread, wonder how many more will do so.

 
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TDorBust said:
You can point to just W/L when taking about Brady but that's a stat and he will be in the record books for those. When you are talking greatest it goes beyond just how many TDs you threw.

People can point to all sorts of thing like stick-um on receivers hands and things like that but the difference is that the Patriots have been caught twice during his career for bending the rules so far that the NFL had no choice but to take action.

Back in the 80's was the NFL looking the other way on stick'em? Same with pine tar with pitchers in todays MLB. There is a difference between what is common place and what is over the line. Common place is teams just destroying the ball to break it in but what is not common place is submitting a football for inspection, sneaking back in to change air pressure, and then covering the whole thing up when someone blew the whistle on it.

Brady is the best QB ever to throw away his legacy. A lot of people over looked spy gate and still count the Super Bowl rings for Brady but after this latest scandal I feel this will stick with him forever as he just doesn't have enough career left to make it disappear and even if he succeeds you gotta ask what are they up to now.

PS - I changed my vote today when I saw this thread, wonder how many more will do so.
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I think you, like many people, tremendously overestimate the weight your opinion carries

 
12punch said:
TDorBust said:
You can point to just W/L when taking about Brady but that's a stat and he will be in the record books for those. When you are talking greatest it goes beyond just how many TDs you threw.

People can point to all sorts of thing like stick-um on receivers hands and things like that but the difference is that the Patriots have been caught twice during his career for bending the rules so far that the NFL had no choice but to take action.

Back in the 80's was the NFL looking the other way on stick'em? Same with pine tar with pitchers in todays MLB. There is a difference between what is common place and what is over the line. Common place is teams just destroying the ball to break it in but what is not common place is submitting a football for inspection, sneaking back in to change air pressure, and then covering the whole thing up when someone blew the whistle on it.

Brady is the best QB ever to throw away his legacy. A lot of people over looked spy gate and still count the Super Bowl rings for Brady but after this latest scandal I feel this will stick with him forever as he just doesn't have enough career left to make it disappear and even if he succeeds you gotta ask what are they up to now.

PS - I changed my vote today when I saw this thread, wonder how many more will do so.
Click to expand...
I think you, like many people, tremendously overestimate the weight your opinion carries
Click to expand...
Pot this is kettlekettle this is pot

 
Are people seriously trying to make the PSI of a football a career defining issue? :lmao:

Some serious haterade there.

 
It's funny that such a banal, obvious point--teams have 53 players, and teams reach and win Super Bowls--basically destroys this whole discussion.

You'd need to get a bunch of scouts to pour over game film of any number of quarterbacks, and give you their consensus opinion, and who knows who might come out on top.

Ever heard of Bert Jones? Me neither, but a pretty significant authority on the matter thinks Bert Jones might be the greatest QB ever: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2008/02/02/Super-Bowl-Notebook-Belichick-lists-Bert-Jones-as-one-of-his-all-time-QBs/stories/200802020150

 
Jercules said:
It's funny that such a banal, obvious point--teams have 53 players, and teams reach and win Super Bowls--basically destroys this whole discussion.

You'd need to get a bunch of scouts to pour over game film of any number of quarterbacks, and give you their consensus opinion, and who knows who might come out on top.

Ever heard of Bert Jones? Me neither, but a pretty significant authority on the matter thinks Bert Jones might be the greatest QB ever: http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2008/02/02/Super-Bowl-Notebook-Belichick-lists-Bert-Jones-as-one-of-his-all-time-QBs/stories/200802020150
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Jones was great for a 3-5 year stretch in the mid 70s. The youngsters here won't remember him, but he was a league MVP and led BAL to three straight playoff appearances. On the surface, his passing numbers don't look great, but bear in mind that was an era where some teams ran the football 600-650 times a year and only passed 350-400 times in a season.

I remember he had a cannon for an arm, and had he not suffered multiple injuries, he may have been remembered as one of the best QBs to ever play the game. In his MVP season, he averaged 15 yards per completion with a 9.0 YPA. Only 3 QBs have had a season like that since then. From 1967-1983, he was one of 3 QBs to have a season with a 100+ passer rating.

Put another way, at the same rate of success, Jones' 1976 season would have yielded a 5964 yard, 46 TD season if he had as many passing attempts as Peyton Manning did in 2013.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The problem I have with these discussions is that we take a career's worth of accomplishments and overemphasize a handful of games (SBs).

Change the outcome of two SB games either way and this conversation is not even taking place. If Montana went 2-2. If Brady went 6-0. If Brady went 2-4. Even if we changed the outcome of one SB for each player and the entire discussion changes. That one game represents less than 1% of the games each guy played. And as already discussed, in Brady's case in particular, the outcomes of all the Pats' SBs could have been different and could have changed based on NE's defense or special teams.
Click to expand...
So do you have Manning and Marino ahead of them then?

 
17seconds said:
Anarchy99 said:
The problem I have with these discussions is that we take a career's worth of accomplishments and overemphasize a handful of games (SBs).

Change the outcome of two SB games either way and this conversation is not even taking place. If Montana went 2-2. If Brady went 6-0. If Brady went 2-4. Even if we changed the outcome of one SB for each player and the entire discussion changes. That one game represents less than 1% of the games each guy played. And as already discussed, in Brady's case in particular, the outcomes of all the Pats' SBs could have been different and could have changed based on NE's defense or special teams.
Click to expand...
So do you have Manning and Marino ahead of them then?
Click to expand...
I don't remember the context of this from several months ago, but in terms of pure passing skills I think both Manning and Marino were better. Leadership skills, winning games, playoff success, stepping up in the clutch are different attributes. But as far as on field technique and throwing the football, I would rate Manning and Marino higher.
 
I've always felt that Manning is a slightly better QB than Brady, but the personnel and coaching around Brady has afforded him more success. None of the guys in this discussion were bad in the clutch. It's a team game. At the highest levels of QB play, people often mistake team factors as a QB's ability (or lack of ability) in the clutch.

 
17seconds said:
I've always felt that Manning is a slightly better QB than Brady, but the personnel and coaching around Brady has afforded him more success. None of the guys in this discussion were bad in the clutch. It's a team game. At the highest levels of QB play, people often mistake team factors as a QB's ability (or lack of ability) in the clutch.
Click to expand...
Ummmmmmm.... Harrison, James, Addai, Clark, Wayne, Thomas, Thomas, Decker off the top of my head.

 
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fantasycurse42 said:
17seconds said:
I've always felt that Manning is a slightly better QB than Brady, but the personnel and coaching around Brady has afforded him more success. None of the guys in this discussion were bad in the clutch. It's a team game. At the highest levels of QB play, people often mistake team factors as a QB's ability (or lack of ability) in the clutch.
Click to expand...
Ummmmmmm.... Harrison, James, Addai, Clark, Wayne, Thomas, Thomas, Decker off the top of my head.
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Defense personnel counts too.

 
Lemmy said:
12punch said:
4-0 > 4-2

Nuff said
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So Brady is penalized for getting to 2 more SBs ?
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bro it's the same delusional argument Lebron James haters put up.. 2/5 and they penalize Lebron for going to the finals with inferior teams... Teams that would have been 1st, 2nd round exits with any other players in history taking his spot i.e (jordan,Kobe,shaq wilt etc) typical bone head logic. It's better to lose in the first, 2nd round then go to the finals and lose ................ :loco: :yawn: :whistle: :bs:

 
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Anarchy99 said:
fantasycurse42 said:
17seconds said:
I've always felt that Manning is a slightly better QB than Brady, but the personnel and coaching around Brady has afforded him more success. None of the guys in this discussion were bad in the clutch. It's a team game. At the highest levels of QB play, people often mistake team factors as a QB's ability (or lack of ability) in the clutch.
Click to expand...
Ummmmmmm.... Harrison, James, Addai, Clark, Wayne, Thomas, Thomas, Decker off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Defense personnel counts too.
Click to expand...
Sure it does, but Peyton has been surrounded by better players on the field with him during his career.

 
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