Brandon Marshall diagnosed w/ borderline personality disorder (1 Viewer)

[cobalt_27]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

It's a fair question. Not sure about lazy, but the irresponsible, self-absorbed, impulsive descriptors you put out there are generally consistent with the diagnosis itself (e.g., pattern of affective instability, impulsivity, inappropriate anger/emotional reactivity, etc.). There's a lot of debate within the psychology/psychiatry fields as to what underlies all of this, but most folks generally agree that personality disorders are characterologic (as in being part of an individual's core personality), unlike problems associated with, say, major depression or a generalized anxiety disorder. In fact, BPD and all the other personality disorders (e.g., Narcissistic, Histrionic, Avoidant, etc.) are coded on a completely different scale (Axis II) than disorders like depression or anxiety (Axis I). The question is how to treat this. How do you treat someone's personality? Medications have been minimally effective, if not completely ineffective. It usually takes years of intensive therapy that attempts at strengthening the person's ability to regulate his/her emotions and developing skills to be more appropriate in interpersonal relationships. As you might guess, it's no walk in the park.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

Nobody wants to go there. It's easier if we can find something medically wrong with them. It's more politically correct.

Your ignorance is painful and stunning to watch. I like how you claim these medical treatments are mostly bs though you conveniently admit your granddaughter actually has ADHD because she was tested by professionals. Brandon Marshall was diagnosed by who exactly? Some guy at the bar?Who said folks with BPD are lazy?

Here's a link that goes over some basics of BPD: http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001931/

OK Dr Awesome but you must admit or maybe you don't that a lot of people are finding this and many other types of mental disorders or borderline mental disorders and using them as a crutch for either bad behavior, laziness(not being as excellent as they could be), or anger mgmt issues. It's just too easy when the medical community in psychology has a pretty blanket disorder that almost anyone can be diagnosed with if they try hard eough.I would like to hear more from Cobalt if possible. I would like to hear what his overall impression of BPD is if he can do it in this format which could be difficult.

 

[a_troll00]

Here's a couple of links of what BPD can be like. Mind you, they're not for dealing with BPD, but for dealing with someone WHO HAS BPD:

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/how-to-deal-borderline-personality-woman/

http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/the-emotionally-abusive-personality-is-she-a-borderline-or-a-narcissist/

 

[Ministry of Pain]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

It's a fair question. Not sure about lazy, but the irresponsible, self-absorbed, impulsive descriptors you put out there are generally consistent with the diagnosis itself (e.g., pattern of affective instability, impulsivity, inappropriate anger/emotional reactivity, etc.). There's a lot of debate within the psychology/psychiatry fields as to what underlies all of this, but most folks generally agree that personality disorders are characterologic (as in being part of an individual's core personality), unlike problems associated with, say, major depression or a generalized anxiety disorder. In fact, BPD and all the other personality disorders (e.g., Narcissistic, Histrionic, Avoidant, etc.) are coded on a completely different scale (Axis II) than disorders like depression or anxiety (Axis I). The question is how to treat this. How do you treat someone's personality? Medications have been minimally effective, if not completely ineffective. It usually takes years of intensive therapy that attempts at strengthening the person's ability to regulate his/her emotions and developing skills to be more appropriate in interpersonal relationships. As you might guess, it's no walk in the park.

Again, excellent post and a lot of it echos what I heard from the professors. I like the fact you pointed out medication is not very effective. Have you explored a more wholistic approach or are you open to those types of treatments? Do you ever get a patient and start encouraging them to perhaps go on a walk? I say that not as a joke but so many folks just roll out of bed, work, come home, take care of kids/cook, off to bed, wash rinse repeat...that cycle can be really depressing after a while.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

It's a fair question. Not sure about lazy, but the irresponsible, self-absorbed, impulsive descriptors you put out there are generally consistent with the diagnosis itself (e.g., pattern of affective instability, impulsivity, inappropriate anger/emotional reactivity, etc.). There's a lot of debate within the psychology/psychiatry fields as to what underlies all of this, but most folks generally agree that personality disorders are characterologic (as in being part of an individual's core personality), unlike problems associated with, say, major depression or a generalized anxiety disorder. In fact, BPD and all the other personality disorders (e.g., Narcissistic, Histrionic, Avoidant, etc.) are coded on a completely different scale (Axis II) than disorders like depression or anxiety (Axis I). The question is how to treat this. How do you treat someone's personality? Medications have been minimally effective, if not completely ineffective. It usually takes years of intensive therapy that attempts at strengthening the person's ability to regulate his/her emotions and developing skills to be more appropriate in interpersonal relationships. As you might guess, it's no walk in the park.

Interesting. I think it's 'waters down' some of the credibility/ notion of a 'disorder' (like schizo/bipolar/paranoia/mania etc) when you call the others 'personality disorders',which really seem just a list of character flaws, but not necessarily disorders/sickness etc. At least that's how I see it. Otherwise there is a HUGE segment of the population with 3/4 personality disorders (using this board as a nonrandom sample)

 

[cobalt_27]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

It's a fair question. Not sure about lazy, but the irresponsible, self-absorbed, impulsive descriptors you put out there are generally consistent with the diagnosis itself (e.g., pattern of affective instability, impulsivity, inappropriate anger/emotional reactivity, etc.). There's a lot of debate within the psychology/psychiatry fields as to what underlies all of this, but most folks generally agree that personality disorders are characterologic (as in being part of an individual's core personality), unlike problems associated with, say, major depression or a generalized anxiety disorder. In fact, BPD and all the other personality disorders (e.g., Narcissistic, Histrionic, Avoidant, etc.) are coded on a completely different scale (Axis II) than disorders like depression or anxiety (Axis I). The question is how to treat this. How do you treat someone's personality? Medications have been minimally effective, if not completely ineffective. It usually takes years of intensive therapy that attempts at strengthening the person's ability to regulate his/her emotions and developing skills to be more appropriate in interpersonal relationships. As you might guess, it's no walk in the park.

Again, excellent post and a lot of it echos what I heard from the professors. I like the fact you pointed out medication is not very effective. Have you explored a more wholistic approach or are you open to those types of treatments? Do you ever get a patient and start encouraging them to perhaps go on a walk? I say that not as a joke but so many folks just roll out of bed, work, come home, take care of kids/cook, off to bed, wash rinse repeat...that cycle can be really depressing after a while.

I don't treat any patients with BPD now. My background is as a neuropsychologist, so I do cognitive assessments with patients who have had head injuries, stroke, seizure, dementia, ADHD, etc. That's more my game than therapy. In graduate training and internship, though, I did "treat" a few patients with BPD, and they were tough. I put treat in quotations because, like a lot of trainees, I was completely ineffective. Raw trainees can be fantastic when helping folks with depression or anxiety disorders, but personality disorders are so complex and usually beyond the level obtained by younger clinicians to foster much improvement. The major centers that deal with BPD in Boston and Seattle (among a few others across the country), really emphasize rigorous therapeutic interventions with seasoned psychologists/psychiatrists. Such treatments very well may include a holistic approach, taking walks in the park or engaging in other physical activity. But, all of this would be done in the broader context of intensive interpersonal skill development and identification/retraining on how to deal with negative emotions. This is not my line of work, and I to those who do it. Specifically, I will refer patients I suspect as having BPD to an established treatment center that specializes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). First, because of its theoretical foundation. Second, because of training that's required of the psychologists and psychiatrists to use DBT techniques. And, third, because of its superior success rate as documented in the peer-reviewed literature relative to other forms of treatment(s).

 

[cobalt_27]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

It's a fair question. Not sure about lazy, but the irresponsible, self-absorbed, impulsive descriptors you put out there are generally consistent with the diagnosis itself (e.g., pattern of affective instability, impulsivity, inappropriate anger/emotional reactivity, etc.). There's a lot of debate within the psychology/psychiatry fields as to what underlies all of this, but most folks generally agree that personality disorders are characterologic (as in being part of an individual's core personality), unlike problems associated with, say, major depression or a generalized anxiety disorder. In fact, BPD and all the other personality disorders (e.g., Narcissistic, Histrionic, Avoidant, etc.) are coded on a completely different scale (Axis II) than disorders like depression or anxiety (Axis I). The question is how to treat this. How do you treat someone's personality? Medications have been minimally effective, if not completely ineffective. It usually takes years of intensive therapy that attempts at strengthening the person's ability to regulate his/her emotions and developing skills to be more appropriate in interpersonal relationships. As you might guess, it's no walk in the park.

Interesting. I think it's 'waters down' some of the notion of a 'disorder' (like schizo/bipolar/paranoia etc) when you call the others 'personality disorders',which really seem just a list of character flaws, but not necessarily disorders/sickness etc. At least that's how I see it.Otherwise there is a HUGE segment of the population with 3/4 personality disorders (using this board as a nonrandom sample)

I totally understand this point of view. I come at it from a different angle and assume that every psychological disorder is an expression of some form of brain dysfunction/dysregulation/disturbance that requires different approaches that, if effective, can ameliorate, remedy, or at least facilitate compensatory strategies that will hopefully reduce the level of disturbance it causes (to themselves and others). But, that's our job as psychologists and psychiatrists, not yours. And, I suspect you are in the majority with that POV.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

Nobody wants to go there. It's easier if we can find something medically wrong with them. It's more politically correct.

Your ignorance is painful and stunning to watch. I like how you claim these medical treatments are mostly bs though you conveniently admit your granddaughter actually has ADHD because she was tested by professionals. Brandon Marshall was diagnosed by who exactly? Some guy at the bar?Who said folks with BPD are lazy?

Here's a link that goes over some basics of BPD: http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001931/

OK Dr Awesome but you must admit or maybe you don't that a lot of people are finding this and many other types of mental disorders or borderline mental disorders and using them as a crutch for either bad behavior, laziness(not being as excellent as they could be), or anger mgmt issues. It's just too easy when the medical community in psychology has a pretty blanket disorder that almost anyone can be diagnosed with if they try hard eough.I would like to hear more from Cobalt if possible. I would like to hear what his overall impression of BPD is if he can do it in this format which could be difficult.

I don't disagree that many persons are diagnosed incorrectly. And I have little doubt some people use their label as a crutch. It seems you're using this to start a personal crusade against something that is unrelated to this thread. Brandon Marshall has been diagnosed by professionals as having BPD. Might he not really have it? Might he be cured if he would get his butt out of bed and start exercising? Both are possible. But I highly doubt Marshall was diagnosed by some fresh out of school graduate.

 

[cobalt_27]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

Nobody wants to go there. It's easier if we can find something medically wrong with them. It's more politically correct.

Your ignorance is painful and stunning to watch. I like how you claim these medical treatments are mostly bs though you conveniently admit your granddaughter actually has ADHD because she was tested by professionals. Brandon Marshall was diagnosed by who exactly? Some guy at the bar?Who said folks with BPD are lazy?

Here's a link that goes over some basics of BPD: http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001931/

OK Dr Awesome but you must admit or maybe you don't that a lot of people are finding this and many other types of mental disorders or borderline mental disorders and using them as a crutch for either bad behavior, laziness(not being as excellent as they could be), or anger mgmt issues. It's just too easy when the medical community in psychology has a pretty blanket disorder that almost anyone can be diagnosed with if they try hard eough.I would like to hear more from Cobalt if possible. I would like to hear what his overall impression of BPD is if he can do it in this format which could be difficult.

I don't disagree that many persons are diagnosed incorrectly. And I have little doubt some people use their label as a crutch. It seems you're using this to start a personal crusade against something that is unrelated to this thread. Brandon Marshall has been diagnosed by professionals as having BPD. Might he not really have it? Might he be cured if he would get his butt out of bed and start exercising? Both are possible. But I highly doubt Marshall was diagnosed by some fresh out of school graduate.

Agree with all this. If he received assessment and treatment at McLean Hospital, that's serious ####. Treatment providers there are among the very best in the profession.I don't know what to do about the "crutch" argument. I know it exists, but I certainly don't view psychiatric disorders of any kind through the lens of, "Oh well, that explains it, go on your merry way, then." If anything, I take the view similar to how I would if one had heart disease, cancer, or an infectious disease. That is to say, that if it is causing dysfunction, the person has to be proactive about getting treatment. Bottom line is that psychiatric disorders are disruptive in a lot of ways and, beyond the individual, can exact a huge societal cost. I don't personally see them as an excuse for anything. But, I do feel it's important to understand what the hell is going on that is causing them to function in maladaptive ways and propose targeted treatments that can help improve their symptoms.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

Nobody wants to go there. It's easier if we can find something medically wrong with them. It's more politically correct.

Your ignorance is painful and stunning to watch. I like how you claim these medical treatments are mostly bs though you conveniently admit your granddaughter actually has ADHD because she was tested by professionals. Brandon Marshall was diagnosed by who exactly? Some guy at the bar?Who said folks with BPD are lazy?

Here's a link that goes over some basics of BPD: http://www.ncbi.nlm....lth/PMH0001931/

OK Dr Awesome but you must admit or maybe you don't that a lot of people are finding this and many other types of mental disorders or borderline mental disorders and using them as a crutch for either bad behavior, laziness(not being as excellent as they could be), or anger mgmt issues. It's just too easy when the medical community in psychology has a pretty blanket disorder that almost anyone can be diagnosed with if they try hard eough.I would like to hear more from Cobalt if possible. I would like to hear what his overall impression of BPD is if he can do it in this format which could be difficult.

I don't disagree that many persons are diagnosed incorrectly. And I have little doubt some people use their label as a crutch. It seems you're using this to start a personal crusade against something that is unrelated to this thread. Brandon Marshall has been diagnosed by professionals as having BPD. Might he not really have it? Might he be cured if he would get his butt out of bed and start exercising? Both are possible. But I highly doubt Marshall was diagnosed by some fresh out of school graduate.

To stay on topic (for once) This diatribe/angle seems misapplied here. If BM had say been the aggressor in his recent case with his wife (which he was not), or committed some pending crimes, one could see how this was beingused to excuse something. In this case he actually risks more public (and intra-game) ridicule by speaking out on this. Plus it sounds like at least as far as he thinks, he is doing much better in thereapy. Might be time to consider aquirring BM on the heel of a mediocre year, as at least one large source of inner turmoil has been removed from his life... or we could just pick names out of a hat...

 

[FantasyMan]

It's like being a borderline diabetic as far as I'm concerned. He has borderline personality disorder....

That statement is complete nonsense. Borderline isn't a descriptor of it being "kinda" or "on the fence" of having a personality disorder.

Hi Gian,With respect to your post I am gettng tired of people saying things are nonsense. I just finished up a psychology dual major at the Univ of Miami and I posted the definition along wth ID Kit too and you can see that it clearly is "Unknown"...the cause, the definition, the entire idea is very diffiult to pin down to anything so it's not nonsense, it's my interpretation of the "Known" facts. Not mad Gian, just tired of people providing no meat but making huge blanket statements on my posts. If you have better facts bring 'em, if you are a Psyciatrist with a practice please share, otherwise it's mostly opinion and interpretation, that's all I'm trying to post back at you with. I respect most folks POV even if I needle for deeper opinions from some. Thanks

I wish they'd just change the name of this disorder already, it seems that it's even confusing to the psych student.BPD isn't borderline ANYTHING, it's a terrible affliction that can cause major problems for the afflicted and their loved ones.

 

[gianmarco]

It's like being a borderline diabetic as far as I'm concerned. He has borderline personality disorder....

That statement is complete nonsense. Borderline isn't a descriptor of it being "kinda" or "on the fence" of having a personality disorder.

Hi Gian,With respect to your post I am gettng tired of people saying things are nonsense. I just finished up a psychology dual major at the Univ of Miami and I posted the definition along wth ID Kit too and you can see that it clearly is "Unknown"...the cause, the definition, the entire idea is very diffiult to pin down to anything so it's not nonsense, it's my interpretation of the "Known" facts. Not mad Gian, just tired of people providing no meat but making huge blanket statements on my posts. If you have better facts bring 'em, if you are a Psyciatrist with a practice please share, otherwise it's mostly opinion and interpretation, that's all I'm trying to post back at you with. I respect most folks POV even if I needle for deeper opinions from some. Thanks

I wish they'd just change the name of this disorder already, it seems that it's even confusing to the psych student.BPD isn't borderline ANYTHING, it's a terrible affliction that can cause major problems for the afflicted and their loved ones.

 

[destro]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

 

[cobalt_27]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

Yup. I'm not particularly bullish on the idea that his fantasy stock goes up or down with treatment. But, nonetheless, good for him that he's speaking out about this. The mere fact that we are having a discussion about this and that he's raised awareness to the disorder (which is not commonly diagnosed in males) is a good thing. I hope he improves with treatment. 85/1150/8

 

[Hoosier16]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

Yup. I'm not particularly bullish on the idea that his fantasy stock goes up or down with treatment. But, nonetheless, good for him that he's speaking out about this. The mere fact that we are having a discussion about this and that he's raised awareness to the disorder (which is not commonly diagnosed in males) is a good thing. I hope he improves with treatment. 85/1150/8

Judging from what you have said about the disease, it would seem to me that he should not be bumped up. It seems like it would take much more dedication to treatment than a once a week visit to a therapist. It's great that Marshall is looking for help, but it seems like a professional football career will likely get in the way.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

All technical psychobabble aside the media down here in Miami is not buying this hook line and sinker. Some may not be aware but there are some pending issues with his new wife who by all police reports stabbed Marshall but Marshall denies it and has not changed his stance. Whether he is doing this publicly to protect his wife and shield her I cannot say but it is worth exploring and at least being aware of the situation.

For anyone that is making projections within this thread I would caution you especially with Miami not getting an impact RB to stablize the ground game. They have a very unheralded rookie and Reggie Bush right now. The WRs are led by a guy who is battling mental disorders as we speak, and the rest is a real mish mash although I understand the Bess love by fans, he is one of my favorites too. Nothing special at TE and the OL is pretty good in spots but not sure the unit as a whole is anything close to top10 right now. Even with Pouncey, O'Hara possibly coming here, and i think they signed another vet OLineman who's name eludes me at the moment.

I don't think you can project Marshall for 16 games either, I would lower that to perhaps 12.

 

[cobalt_27]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

Yup. I'm not particularly bullish on the idea that his fantasy stock goes up or down with treatment. But, nonetheless, good for him that he's speaking out about this. The mere fact that we are having a discussion about this and that he's raised awareness to the disorder (which is not commonly diagnosed in males) is a good thing. I hope he improves with treatment. 85/1150/8

Judging from what you have said about the disease, it would seem to me that he should not be bumped up. It seems like it would take much more dedication to treatment than a once a week visit to a therapist. It's great that Marshall is looking for help, but it seems like a professional football career will likely get in the way.

My understanding is that he went through 3 months of intensive treatment (possibly day treatment or inpatient treatment) at McLean Hospital in Boston during the offseason. Correct me, though, if I'm wrong here. Assuming that's the case, I don't see why he couldn't function now in a reasonable capacity with weekly outpatient therapy. That being said, I think it's fair to raise the concern, as you did, that he could decompensate at any point. It's also worth considering, as MoP pointed out, that there may be some ulterior motives going on that are of unknown consequence at this time. I'll just take what I've heard at face value and hope for the best for him. I just don't think any of this changes things radically from what we know before (either positively or negatively in FF terms). He has a crap offense built around him that's arguably better or worse than it was last year, and that's going to be, imo, the deciding factor over the 16 week regular season...less to do with his psychiatric status (improved or worse compared to a year ago).

 

[destro]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

Yup. I'm not particularly bullish on the idea that his fantasy stock goes up or down with treatment. But, nonetheless, good for him that he's speaking out about this. The mere fact that we are having a discussion about this and that he's raised awareness to the disorder (which is not commonly diagnosed in males) is a good thing. I hope he improves with treatment. 85/1150/8

Judging from what you have said about the disease, it would seem to me that he should not be bumped up. It seems like it would take much more dedication to treatment than a once a week visit to a therapist. It's great that Marshall is looking for help, but it seems like a professional football career will likely get in the way.

Well, I get your concern, but he did say that this was diagnosed early this year and that he's spent $60k on treatment so far. He's receiving treatment from a professor at Harvard and doctors from NIMH. That's already a tremendous amount of high quality treatment that most people would not have access to. If he continues this going forward, I don't see how he wouldn't see at least some improvement, if he hasn't already. He also mentioned specifically that he appreciates football more, and claims it "saved his life."This all looks good to me.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

BPD isn't something that suddenly creeps in. If he has it, he's had it for years. And he's had fantasy success with it. I see no reason to bump him up or down based on this news.

MoP - why do you think we should not predict him for 16 games?

 

[Hoosier16]

There are some weird personal agendas/crusades coming out in this thread. Bizarre.

If you read the articles out there about this, it's really hard not to come away from it feeling like Marshall is moving in a positive direction. I think this article has more details than the others posted so far.

"There comes a time in a guy like myself's life, with everything that I've been through, that you become bulletproof to the critics and to what the world thinks of you," Marshall said. "Right now, today, I am vulnerable. I am making myself vulnerable. And I want it to be clear that this is the opposite of damage control. The only reason why I'm standing here today is to use my story to help others who may suffer from what I suffer from."

I mean, c'mon? The guy is seeing a therapist weekly, and has no plans to stop. Regardless of whether or not you have some weird old-school notion that these types of disorders are crutches or not, the guy is clearly trying to correct his problems however he can.Long story short: bump Marshall.

Yup. I'm not particularly bullish on the idea that his fantasy stock goes up or down with treatment. But, nonetheless, good for him that he's speaking out about this. The mere fact that we are having a discussion about this and that he's raised awareness to the disorder (which is not commonly diagnosed in males) is a good thing. I hope he improves with treatment. 85/1150/8

Judging from what you have said about the disease, it would seem to me that he should not be bumped up. It seems like it would take much more dedication to treatment than a once a week visit to a therapist. It's great that Marshall is looking for help, but it seems like a professional football career will likely get in the way.

My understanding is that he went through 3 months of intensive treatment (possibly day treatment or inpatient treatment) at McLean Hospital in Boston during the offseason. Correct me, though, if I'm wrong here. Assuming that's the case, I don't see why he couldn't function now in a reasonable capacity with weekly outpatient therapy. That being said, I think it's fair to raise the concern, as you did, that he could decompensate at any point. It's also worth considering, as MoP pointed out, that there may be some ulterior motives going on that are of unknown consequence at this time. I'll just take what I've heard at face value and hope for the best for him. I just don't think any of this changes things radically from what we know before (either positively or negatively in FF terms). He has a crap offense built around him that's arguably better or worse than it was last year, and that's going to be, imo, the deciding factor over the 16 week regular season...less to do with his psychiatric status (improved or worse compared to a year ago).

That's along the lines of what I was thinking. Many people do well with inpatient treatment while they are at a facility. Their behavior can be strictly controlled. It's when they leave and return to their regular life that they tend to return to their old ways and habits. The return to the stress and time demands of football seems like it will interfere with his progression in his treatment.

 

[az_prof]

On a personal level, I am happy for Marshall that he has identified his inner demon and is seeking help.

On a fantasy level, I don't think this helps or hurts in the short term, but it might bode well long term in terms of him avoiding further suspensions and trouble. Too early to tell if that's true, but I think there is hope. You can't solve a problem if you don't understand you have one.

 

[destro]

On a personal level, I am happy for Marshall that he has identified his inner demon and is seeking help.On a fantasy level, I don't think this helps or hurts in the short term, but it might bode well long term in terms of him avoiding further suspensions and trouble. Too early to tell if that's true, but I think there is hope. You can't solve a problem if you don't understand you have one.

Agreed. I've been saying bump Marshall, but I'm really thinking more dynasty purposes than anything else. His performance next year may not improve much based solely on this information, but I think the longterm outlook for him is much better than it was last week.

 

[Couch Potato]

? for the psychs in here. What's the difference between being BPD and just being a lazy, irresponsible, self absorbed and impulsive #######? I am being serious.

Well, for one, I don't have BPD...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

BPD isn't something that suddenly creeps in. If he has it, he's had it for years. And he's had fantasy success with it. I see no reason to bump him up or down based on this news. MoP - why do you think we should not predict him for 16 games?

He missed a couple games last year. He might feel pressure as one of the only weapons on offense like he did last year to try and play over his abilities. Henne might hang him out to dry like the kid in AZ did to Fitz last season. I am just not sold that he can complete 16 games with the team in his position at the moment. he gets no help from the QB position, none. I would split the difference though with ya Dr.A and maybe accept 14 games. I could see him needing a mental health week along the way too. When Sporano and Miami are out of the playoffs all bets are off as to what happens. While the fan base is somewhat still cheery down here right now, I have a feeling I am ahead of the curve and once they are 3-7, 4-6...fans are going to suddenly brighten up and want changes and that could even spill over to them turning on decent players like Marshall. Brandon did not come to the rescue of his HC when his head was on the chopblock last year too. I don't think the relationship is really tight.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

BPD isn't something that suddenly creeps in. If he has it, he's had it for years. And he's had fantasy success with it. I see no reason to bump him up or down based on this news. MoP - why do you think we should not predict him for 16 games?

He missed a couple games last year. He might feel pressure as one of the only weapons on offense like he did last year to try and play over his abilities. Henne might hang him out to dry like the kid in AZ did to Fitz last season. I am just not sold that he can complete 16 games with the team in his position at the moment. he gets no help from the QB position, none. I would split the difference though with ya Dr.A and maybe accept 14 games. I could see him needing a mental health week along the way too. When Sporano and Miami are out of the playoffs all bets are off as to what happens. While the fan base is somewhat still cheery down here right now, I have a feeling I am ahead of the curve and once they are 3-7, 4-6...fans are going to suddenly brighten up and want changes and that could even spill over to them turning on decent players like Marshall. Brandon did not come to the rescue of his HC when his head was on the chopblock last year too. I don't think the relationship is really tight.

I agree the Dolphins aren't likely to win their division. I'm curious - are you predicting all wr's with crappy qb's to miss a game or two? Not saying it's a bad strategy as there is something to be said about having to lay yourself out for every catch vs. having Peyton dropping it between the numbers but it is a style I haven't seen in any predictions before this.Or do you feel he'll miss games because of his mental problems?He has missed at least 1 game in 4 of his 5 years. But Calvin Johnson, Hines Ward, Greg Jennings, Roddy White have had similar injury histories. Are you predicting them to miss time as well?

 

[cr8f]

Ricky worked his psychological problems pretty well and it sounds like Marshall wants to as well.

I hope he succeeds and hope the NFL helps.

Ricky checked himself in for a couple of months before the season-it's a little late for Marshall to do that now.

 

[faux_bear]

Not to beat a dead horse but, but as a Dolphins fan and practicing psychotherapist, I wanted to chime in on this issue a little bit. The field of psychiatry and behavioral medicine is incredibly complex and always evolving. Our diagnoses are merely organized descriptions of behaviors. They are constructs that we use to help communicate with each other about the behaviors that we see, but they are not always "REAL" things. This is one of the challenges in behavioral medicine compared to traditional disciplines. You break your arm, and an orthopod puts on a cast. You get stabbed, a surgeon might suture you up. I say that so and so has major depression, or a histrionic personality disorder, or Pica (look it up) and this does not tell you a) what caused it, or b) how to fix it. Additionally, 10 doctors will look at an x ray and mostly see the same thing. In psychiatry, 10 psychiatrists will meet with a patient and all 10 might see something different. Personality disorder, particularly, are harder to diagnose, and often require having met with a patient several times to get a good understanding of their behavioral patterns across various situations.

I guess what I'm getting at is, this diagnosis may help Brandon Marshall by helping him understand that there are a lot of people out there that have similar experiences and feelings and behaviors as him, and some treatments that are known to be somewhat effective (I am guessing he is getting Dialectical Behavior Therapy since it the most empirically supported treatment out there). It probably is reassuring to him in some way that his pattern of behavior has been given a name, and this might help lead to some acceptance.

But, this is not something new. He has "had this" probably all his life, and there is no cure. This is not a "thing" that he suddenly developed, nor is this "thing" really even a "thing" the way that diabetes, cancer, and broken bones are "things". But, it can kill him, ruin his life, career, relationships, and everything, and I'm just glad that he is getting help.

 

[Jewell]

On a personal level, I am happy for Marshall that he has identified his inner demon and is seeking help.

Are you sure that's the only demon?As someone who's dealt with his own mental issues and has been around other people with mental issues, I believe that how someone's mental issues manifest themselves (minus delusions) is often a byproduct of other aspects of their personality. For instance, during my bouts I never dreamed of hurting another person. I would get real down on myself, but it never manifested itslef in fights, lashing out at constructive criticsm, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, you see people like the Virgina Tech killer from a few years ago who's mental issues manifested themselves in a killing spree. From all accounts and testimony he was an angry person aside from his mental issues.

I think we see that divide in the above Ricky Williams-Brandon Marshall comparison. Ricky may have let his teammates down, but he never intionally physically hurt someone or intentionally disrespected coaches. That's because, minus his mental issues, deep down Ricky is a good person. I'm not sure I can say the same about Brandon Marshall, and that's why I don't think this diagnosis, even properly treated, will be the end of some of the problems Marshall has evidenced in life.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

On a personal level, I am happy for Marshall that he has identified his inner demon and is seeking help.

Are you sure that's the only demon?As someone who's dealt with his own mental issues and has been around other people with mental issues, I believe that how someone's mental issues manifest themselves (minus delusions) is often a byproduct of other aspects of their personality. For instance, during my bouts I never dreamed of hurting another person. I would get real down on myself, but it never manifested itslef in fights, lashing out at constructive criticsm, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, you see people like the Virgina Tech killer from a few years ago who's mental issues manifested themselves in a killing spree. From all accounts and testimony he was an angry person aside from his mental issues.

I think we see that divide in the above Ricky Williams-Brandon Marshall comparison. Ricky may have let his teammates down, but he never intionally physically hurt someone or intentionally disrespected coaches. That's because, minus his mental issues, deep down Ricky is a good person. I'm not sure I can say the same about Brandon Marshall, and that's why I don't think this diagnosis, even properly treated, will be the end of some of the problems Marshall has evidenced in life.

What makes you think Brandon Marshall is a bad person deep down?

 

[Jewell]

On a personal level, I am happy for Marshall that he has identified his inner demon and is seeking help.

Are you sure that's the only demon?As someone who's dealt with his own mental issues and has been around other people with mental issues, I believe that how someone's mental issues manifest themselves (minus delusions) is often a byproduct of other aspects of their personality. For instance, during my bouts I never dreamed of hurting another person. I would get real down on myself, but it never manifested itslef in fights, lashing out at constructive criticsm, etc. On the other end of the spectrum, you see people like the Virgina Tech killer from a few years ago who's mental issues manifested themselves in a killing spree. From all accounts and testimony he was an angry person aside from his mental issues.

I think we see that divide in the above Ricky Williams-Brandon Marshall comparison. Ricky may have let his teammates down, but he never intionally physically hurt someone or intentionally disrespected coaches. That's because, minus his mental issues, deep down Ricky is a good person. I'm not sure I can say the same about Brandon Marshall, and that's why I don't think this diagnosis, even properly treated, will be the end of some of the problems Marshall has evidenced in life.

What makes you think Brandon Marshall is a bad person deep down?

This link pretty much says it all...http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=4216417

And this is where people point out Marshall may have been brought up in poverty, and then I point out that I've known many poor people who didn't have their upbringing manifest itself in those ways.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

In graduate training and internship, though, I did "treat" a few patients with BPD, and they were tough. I put treat in quotations because, like a lot of trainees, I was completely ineffective. Raw trainees can be fantastic when helping folks with depression or anxiety disorders, but personality disorders are so complex and usually beyond the level obtained by younger clinicians to foster much improvement. The major centers that deal with BPD in Boston and Seattle (among a few others across the country), really emphasize rigorous therapeutic interventions with seasoned psychologists/psychiatrists. Such treatments very well may include a holistic approach, taking walks in the park or engaging in other physical activity. But, all of this would be done in the broader context of intensive interpersonal skill development and identification/retraining on how to deal with negative emotions. This is not my line of work, and I to those who do it. Specifically, I will refer patients I suspect as having BPD to an established treatment center that specializes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). First, because of its theoretical foundation. Second, because of training that's required of the psychologists and psychiatrists to use DBT techniques. And, third, because of its superior success rate as documented in the peer-reviewed literature relative to other forms of treatment(s).

So if it can be treated with behavioral therapy...then it doesn't seem like a huge leap to suggest that this type of condition can be exacerbated by poor parenting. No?

 

[destro]

Man, this thread just keeps getting weirder...

 

[AmosMoses]

Can one of you experts tell me the difference between this and just being plain old crazy?

 

[cobalt_27]

In graduate training and internship, though, I did "treat" a few patients with BPD, and they were tough. I put treat in quotations because, like a lot of trainees, I was completely ineffective. Raw trainees can be fantastic when helping folks with depression or anxiety disorders, but personality disorders are so complex and usually beyond the level obtained by younger clinicians to foster much improvement. The major centers that deal with BPD in Boston and Seattle (among a few others across the country), really emphasize rigorous therapeutic interventions with seasoned psychologists/psychiatrists. Such treatments very well may include a holistic approach, taking walks in the park or engaging in other physical activity. But, all of this would be done in the broader context of intensive interpersonal skill development and identification/retraining on how to deal with negative emotions. This is not my line of work, and I to those who do it. Specifically, I will refer patients I suspect as having BPD to an established treatment center that specializes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). First, because of its theoretical foundation. Second, because of training that's required of the psychologists and psychiatrists to use DBT techniques. And, third, because of its superior success rate as documented in the peer-reviewed literature relative to other forms of treatment(s).

So if it can be treated with behavioral therapy...then it doesn't seem like a huge leap to suggest that this type of condition can be exacerbated by poor parenting. No?

I would suspect BPD has a major environmental underpinning, yes. And inadequate parenting may be one of many factors related to its development. But, probably not sufficient (i.e., a lot of people come from bad parenting backgrounds and do not develop BPD). I wouldn't count out the contributions of genetics or some other brain developmental issue. We'll probably learn a lot more about this in the next few years/decades as our diagnostic/research techniques become more sophisticated. As with most things, it's likely an interaction between intrinsic (i.e., genetics) and extrinsic (i.e., environment) factors. Panic disorder, for example, is usually very responsive to behavioral therapy, and medications are virtually useless. Same for Autism Spectrum disorders. Yet, it does not follow that these disorders are thereby the result of bad parenting. I have seen nothing in my clinical experience or review of the literature that suggests anything of the sort. I would say, broadly-speaking, early developmental experiences, exposure to abuse, etc., likely do play a role. I just wouldn't discount other possible factors.

 

[ookook]

For the record, there is plenty of evidence from cognitive neuroscience that BPD folks have a range of brain abnormalities that help explain some of the difficulties with emotions and relationships.

As with all diagnoses, BPD people differ in how severe the symptoms are and how dysfunctional they are in everyday life.

I suspect that Marshall is fairly functional in the overall scheme of things and this should improve his prognosis.

Edited to add that sometimes heredity can predispose one to having a condition and early experiences impact the onset and severity.

 

[cobalt_27]

Can one of you experts tell me the difference between this and just being plain old crazy?

I think to a lot of people, the emotional dysregulation that comes with borderline disorder really does come across as "crazy." Same goes, though, with other disorders like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizotypal disorder, and so on. The clinical manifestation of each of these disorders is quite distinct and each responds differently to varying treatment modalities. Therefore, psychologists and psychiatrists try to conceptualize what's happening, what behaviors seem to gel with our diagnostic criteria for particular disorders, and treat accordingly. If we were to just call them "crazy" it wouldn't be very helpful.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

In graduate training and internship, though, I did "treat" a few patients with BPD, and they were tough. I put treat in quotations because, like a lot of trainees, I was completely ineffective. Raw trainees can be fantastic when helping folks with depression or anxiety disorders, but personality disorders are so complex and usually beyond the level obtained by younger clinicians to foster much improvement. The major centers that deal with BPD in Boston and Seattle (among a few others across the country), really emphasize rigorous therapeutic interventions with seasoned psychologists/psychiatrists. Such treatments very well may include a holistic approach, taking walks in the park or engaging in other physical activity. But, all of this would be done in the broader context of intensive interpersonal skill development and identification/retraining on how to deal with negative emotions. This is not my line of work, and I to those who do it. Specifically, I will refer patients I suspect as having BPD to an established treatment center that specializes in Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT). First, because of its theoretical foundation. Second, because of training that's required of the psychologists and psychiatrists to use DBT techniques. And, third, because of its superior success rate as documented in the peer-reviewed literature relative to other forms of treatment(s).

So if it can be treated with behavioral therapy...then it doesn't seem like a huge leap to suggest that this type of condition can be exacerbated by poor parenting. No?

I would suspect BPD has a major environmental underpinning, yes. And inadequate parenting may be one of many factors related to its development. But, probably not sufficient (i.e., a lot of people come from bad parenting backgrounds and do not develop BPD). I wouldn't count out the contributions of genetics or some other brain developmental issue. We'll probably learn a lot more about this in the next few years/decades as our diagnostic/research techniques become more sophisticated. As with most things, it's likely an interaction between intrinsic (i.e., genetics) and extrinsic (i.e., environment) factors. Panic disorder, for example, is usually very responsive to behavioral therapy, and medications are virtually useless. Same for Autism Spectrum disorders. Yet, it does not follow that these disorders are thereby the result of bad parenting. I have seen nothing in my clinical experience or review of the literature that suggests anything of the sort. I would say, broadly-speaking, early developmental experiences, exposure to abuse, etc., likely do play a role. I just wouldn't discount other possible factors.

Makes perfect sense. Appreciate all of your comments in this thread cobalt.Kudos to Marshall for getting treated. Despite my comments above, they are not meant to downplay the seriousness of this condition.

 

[stuckinthemuck]

Cobalt - You're the real Dr. Awesome here. Thank you for lending your expertise.

 

[dickey moe]

So if this is treatable what does it mean for his fantasy outlook?

 

[Dr. Awesome]

So if this is treatable what does it mean for his fantasy outlook?

This was touched on earlier. Likely to have zero short term impact. If he's getting help it's a possible small bump up for dynasty leagues. I really doubt this changes his fantasy outlook at all. But it's nice to see him come out with this. Hopefully it will help remove the stigma that some people hold and it will encourage others with BPD to come to terms with it/get the help they need.

 

[AmosMoses]

So if this is treatable what does it mean for his fantasy outlook?

If the dude is catching 100+ receptions with this disease, then I don't think Marshall owners would want him to change anything.

 

[Hoosier16]

So if this is treatable what does it mean for his fantasy outlook?

If the dude is catching 100+ receptions with this disease, then I don't think Marshall owners would want him to change anything.

It's not how it affects his on field performance that has people concerned.