Maik Jeaunz
Footballguy
Bryan Cranston is freaking fantastic. that video confession was money.
No, just Christo.Premier said:Jesus Christ.Christo said:Okay, but Hank's seizure of the book still seems to go beyond what that article says is permissible: A seizure is lawful under the plain view doctrine where the officer was in a place he or she had a right to be at the time the evidence was discovered and it is immediately apparent that the items observed are evidence of a crime. State v. Bone, 354 N.C.C. 1, 550 S.E.2d 482 (2001); State v. Mickey, 347 N.C. 508, 495 S.E.2d 669 (1998); State v. Harper, 158 N.C. App. 595, 582 S.E.2d 62 (2003). In the plain view context, the phrase immediately apparent is satisfied only where the police have probable cause to believe that what they have come upon is evidence of a crime. State v. Graves, 135 N.C. App. 216, 519 S.E.2d 779 (1999).The book was in a stack of books & magazines and had to be opened and read before it became apparent to Hank that it was actually evidence.Maurile Tremblay said:This article seems pretty good, and says that, "[o]riginally, the plain view doctrine applied only to contraband but has been extended to evidence generally."Christo said:It's my understanding that the police can only seize "contraband" that is in plain sight--such as drugs.
Turns out Gus Fring's death was really.... suicideWow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
Hank and Gus always made sure the only place they were together was at DEA/police functions. Marie was their go-between on all important matters.Wow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
I think Gomez suspects Hank is the mole that is why he has been acting all pissy towards him.Wow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
ice cold monAnd how much more of a sociopath can Walt get? A vending machine that dispenses handguns?
Cap, check your PMs please.Premier said:Jesus Christ.Christo said:Okay, but Hank's seizure of the book still seems to go beyond what that article says is permissible: A seizure is lawful under the plain view doctrine where the officer was in a place he or she had a right to be at the time the evidence was discovered and it is immediately apparent that the items observed are evidence of a crime. State v. Bone, 354 N.C.C. 1, 550 S.E.2d 482 (2001); State v. Mickey, 347 N.C. 508, 495 S.E.2d 669 (1998); State v. Harper, 158 N.C. App. 595, 582 S.E.2d 62 (2003). In the plain view context, the phrase immediately apparent is satisfied only where the police have probable cause to believe that what they have come upon is evidence of a crime. State v. Graves, 135 N.C. App. 216, 519 S.E.2d 779 (1999).The book was in a stack of books & magazines and had to be opened and read before it became apparent to Hank that it was actually evidence.Maurile Tremblay said:This article seems pretty good, and says that, "[o]riginally, the plain view doctrine applied only to contraband but has been extended to evidence generally."Christo said:It's my understanding that the police can only seize "contraband" that is in plain sight--such as drugs.
the man like the feel of cold steel.And how much more of a sociopath can Walt get? A vending machine that dispenses handguns?
Christo said:You're going to have to provide a citation for that. It's my understanding that the police can only seize "contraband" that is in plain sight--such as drugs.It was neither an illegal search, nor an illegal seizure. If one is warranted, so is the other. They aren't mutually exclusive of each other. By being an invited guest, it's all warranted.Search and seizure. While it may have been in plain sight, he still needed a warrant to seize it.Did you miss the discussion around episode 1? No warrant needed for plain sight.Leaves of Grass is inadmissible. Hank took it without a warrant.
Not to be rude, but other boards can go F themselves.I wonder what other message boards' Breaking Bad threads are like.
The one question I've had since season 1 is what the hell happens if Hank figures out Walt = Heisenberg? Hank's career has to be over. He will either look totally complicit or totally inept when it is discovered that his brother-in-law was the guy he was looking for all along.
Ain't no half steppin'Sometimes "half measures" make a lot of sense.
This episode was Cranston at his best. That scene, the one with Walt Jr. and Jesse were all brilliant. I loved how he played Junior. Complete and total mind f and got exactly the reaction he anticipated.Bryan Cranston is freaking fantastic. that video confession was money.
Wow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
I'd be shocked if a court claimed that Walt had given Hank consent to search. Not only is Hank a social guest, he's a licensee as Walt's brother-in-law. He was off duty and there is zero indication he was granted permission to be there as a law enforcement officer.I don't do criminal law, but I've read a few things about the exclusionary rule on the Internet.
It's true that consent to a search (or, in this case, consent to simply being on the property and acting like a normal houseguest) doesn't automatically include consent to seize any evidence found during the search. Whether a warrant is required to seize such evidence will depend on the totality of the circumstances -- how easy is it for the property to be destroyed while waiting for a warrant, etc. I don't think the answer is completely clear cut in this case.
I also think the plain view exception is relevant. A warrant is not needed to seize evidence in plain view. For an item to be considered "in plain view," an officer can't move stuff around during a search to reveal it. But in this case, magazines were moved around and the book was revealed not when an officer was conducting a search, but when a houseguest was taking a dump. Once the book was revealed -- incident to a dump, not to a search -- it was then in plain view. If the houseguest had been a non-cop rather than an off-duty cop, and he inadvertently revealed the evidence in front of a cop so that it was then in plain view, I think the cop could seize it without a warrant (provided that the cop was on the premises legally -- e.g., with consent). The water is muddied here because the houseguest and the cop are the same person; but I wouldn't give up that fight if I were the prosecutor.
I don't think Hank took Leaves of Grass with the idea that it would be admissible. Even if it's admissible, it's pretty weak as evidence that Walt is Heisenberg. So I don't think its admissibility matters very much. But as for whether it really would be admissible, I don't think it's completely black and white. I think it's an interesting enough question that it could appear on a crim pro exam.
Hank forced him to do it. Didn't you watch the last episode?So at this point does anyone buy family as Walt's motivation? Seems like he's completely ego driven.
He didn't do a search. But he had consent to do exactly what he did* -- to read magazines while taking a dump.I'd be shocked if a court claimed that Walt had given Hank consent to search. Not only is Hank a social guest, he's a licensee as Walt's brother-in-law. He was off duty and there is zero indication he was granted permission to be there as a law enforcement officer.I don't do criminal law, but I've read a few things about the exclusionary rule on the Internet.
It's true that consent to a search (or, in this case, consent to simply being on the property and acting like a normal houseguest) doesn't automatically include consent to seize any evidence found during the search. Whether a warrant is required to seize such evidence will depend on the totality of the circumstances -- how easy is it for the property to be destroyed while waiting for a warrant, etc. I don't think the answer is completely clear cut in this case.
I also think the plain view exception is relevant. A warrant is not needed to seize evidence in plain view. For an item to be considered "in plain view," an officer can't move stuff around during a search to reveal it. But in this case, magazines were moved around and the book was revealed not when an officer was conducting a search, but when a houseguest was taking a dump. Once the book was revealed -- incident to a dump, not to a search -- it was then in plain view. If the houseguest had been a non-cop rather than an off-duty cop, and he inadvertently revealed the evidence in front of a cop so that it was then in plain view, I think the cop could seize it without a warrant (provided that the cop was on the premises legally -- e.g., with consent). The water is muddied here because the houseguest and the cop are the same person; but I wouldn't give up that fight if I were the prosecutor.
I don't think Hank took Leaves of Grass with the idea that it would be admissible. Even if it's admissible, it's pretty weak as evidence that Walt is Heisenberg. So I don't think its admissibility matters very much. But as for whether it really would be admissible, I don't think it's completely black and white. I think it's an interesting enough question that it could appear on a crim pro exam.
He may have grunted and clinched a couple of times but I wouldn't call it a seizure.He didn't do a search. But he had consent to do exactly what he did* -- to read magazines while taking a dump.I'd be shocked if a court claimed that Walt had given Hank consent to search. Not only is Hank a social guest, he's a licensee as Walt's brother-in-law. He was off duty and there is zero indication he was granted permission to be there as a law enforcement officer.I don't do criminal law, but I've read a few things about the exclusionary rule on the Internet.
It's true that consent to a search (or, in this case, consent to simply being on the property and acting like a normal houseguest) doesn't automatically include consent to seize any evidence found during the search. Whether a warrant is required to seize such evidence will depend on the totality of the circumstances -- how easy is it for the property to be destroyed while waiting for a warrant, etc. I don't think the answer is completely clear cut in this case.
I also think the plain view exception is relevant. A warrant is not needed to seize evidence in plain view. For an item to be considered "in plain view," an officer can't move stuff around during a search to reveal it. But in this case, magazines were moved around and the book was revealed not when an officer was conducting a search, but when a houseguest was taking a dump. Once the book was revealed -- incident to a dump, not to a search -- it was then in plain view. If the houseguest had been a non-cop rather than an off-duty cop, and he inadvertently revealed the evidence in front of a cop so that it was then in plain view, I think the cop could seize it without a warrant (provided that the cop was on the premises legally -- e.g., with consent). The water is muddied here because the houseguest and the cop are the same person; but I wouldn't give up that fight if I were the prosecutor.
I don't think Hank took Leaves of Grass with the idea that it would be admissible. Even if it's admissible, it's pretty weak as evidence that Walt is Heisenberg. So I don't think its admissibility matters very much. But as for whether it really would be admissible, I don't think it's completely black and white. I think it's an interesting enough question that it could appear on a crim pro exam.
_____
*At least up until the point of the seizure.
I thought I had - it was the one where Huell planted Lily of the Valley on Jesse before he was about to relocate to Hawaii, right?Hank forced him to do it. Didn't you watch the last episode?So at this point does anyone buy family as Walt's motivation? Seems like he's completely ego driven.
A total curveball would be tanner posting something funny.Wow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
Really? I thought the speech on the floor was telling. He's ego driven until the cancer returned and he seemed to remember why he started this. The two aren't mutually exclusive.So at this point does anyone buy family as Walt's motivation? Seems like he's completely ego driven. He's had no problem turning on Hank, he'll probably have no problem turning on Jesse - and these are people he'd actually attempted to protect in the past. I wonder how much Skyler really means to him at this point. His kids might be the only thing he values more than his ego gratification - and I wonder about that too.
Look at this freaking guy.A total curveball would be tanner posting something funny.Wow. Last episode was amazing.
Total curveball that Hank was really behind all of it. I didn't see that coming. Do you think they'll show a bunch of flashbacks of Hank and Gus working together to fill in the gaps?
He did attend Haaaaaavahd. At least, Dean Norris did.Would Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
It was either that or Cosmopolitan.Would Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
I don't buy, for a second, that he picks Leaves of Grass over Cosmo.It was either that or Cosmopolitan.Would Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
Remember that the name "Walt Whitman" is already in the back of Hank's head thanks to Walt explaining the "W.W." in Gayle's 6th grade girl note to Walt. He very well could have picked up "Leaves of Grass" and said "Huh, 'by Walt Whitman'. That's what that fruit-loop Gayle was writing about".I don't buy, for a second, that he picks Leaves of Grass over Cosmo.It was either that or Cosmopolitan.Would Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
I doubt that was one of the choices anyway. I don't think Sklyer was excited to read a "51 ways to give your man the best orgasm of his life" article.
*cough* flysack *cough*Who puts actual literature in the ####ter?
sitting on the ####ter forces people to thumb throw anything they can get their hands on. I once read the back of a tampax boxWould Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
You're right - at least the top magazine looks like some kind of cooking/better living kind of magazine.I don't buy, for a second, that he picks Leaves of Grass over Cosmo.It was either that or Cosmopolitan.Would Hank really ever thumb through Leaves of Grass?
I doubt that was one of the choices anyway. I don't think Sklyer was excited to read a "51 ways to give your man the best orgasm of his life" article.
Hank brought it up in the episode, how his boss, whose job Hank has now, was fired for socially knowing Gus Fring and not realizing he was a drug kingpin.Never really bought into the notion that if Hank turned Walt in it would automatically make him an inept DEA officer and ruin his career. Not like it's been 10 years running. Taking down the biggest meth dealer in about a year is no small feat. Hank gunned down during this time and his BIL was able to use his proximity to Hank to even further thwart him. Yet Hank still cracked the case.
He brought down the biggest drug kingpin in the Southwest in a year and didn't hesitate to turn in his own BIL. Wouldn't imagine people would be mocking him.