First of all, it wasn't two hours later it was overnight. Secondly, the answer to your question otherwise is "yes" unless the hospital staff is observing on its own that he's engaging in behavior suggesting that he might harm himself. You're arguing this as if every attempted suicide results in involuntary commitment - it doesn't. Think how hard it is in terms of the hoops that law enforcement has to jump through to get a criminal suspect into custody, and then think how hard it must be for a health care facility to take custody of a non-criminal.you're telling me that someone comes into the hospital that the cops say has attempted suicide. there's evidence of it (pills in his system). two hours later he says it was a mistake, the hospital is not allowed to keep him there for his own safety?You're not getting it. If he doesn't want to be there they can't keep him unless they seek a court order to do so.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image.
What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
I've been mentioned as one of the better Cowboys posters. I was just trying to share what Cowboy fans thought.Please stop acting as though you speak for everyone. It's not your business to tell others they can't post things like what he posted. He did or said nothing out of line, even if you personally don't think it's worth anything. I'm really sick of people feeling they have the right to rip others whenever they feel like it. It didn't used to be allowed, but now it's become the norm.Attempt #3 - No, nobody cares what a group of Cowboys fans with the same or less information then the rest of the world has thinks about this subject. If you have MORE information then has been posted on this thread so far that would support your position then please enlighten us. If not, then you and all the other Cowboy fan poll participants are speculating just like the rest of us.Is that clear enough for you?

Would someone please update us on the board? Unfortunately I can't get audio at work.
and what i'm saying is that position is much more easy to defend even though it's a potential civil rights violation vs. releasing someone who isn't stable, having him walk outside the lobby and assault someone. obviously that's extreme, but weighing liability here, having a doctor fudge his medical opinion for 24 hours to make sure there's no danger seems like a no brainerFirst of all, it wasn't two hours later it was overnight. Secondly, the answer to your question otherwise is "yes" unless the hospital staff is observing on its own that he's engaging in behavior suggesting that he might harm himself.you're telling me that someone comes into the hospital that the cops say has attempted suicide. there's evidence of it (pills in his system). two hours later he says it was a mistake, the hospital is not allowed to keep him there for his own safety?You're not getting it. If he doesn't want to be there they can't keep him unless they seek a court order to do so.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image.
What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
You *are* one of the better Cowboys posters. They're my favorite team, too. I thought your sharing of the poll was helpful (thanks!) and don't get why the self-appointed Board Police had an issue with it.I've been mentioned as one of the better Cowboys posters. I was just trying to share what Cowboy fans thought.Please stop acting as though you speak for everyone. It's not your business to tell others they can't post things like what he posted. He did or said nothing out of line, even if you personally don't think it's worth anything. I'm really sick of people feeling they have the right to rip others whenever they feel like it. It didn't used to be allowed, but now it's become the norm.Attempt #3 - No, nobody cares what a group of Cowboys fans with the same or less information then the rest of the world has thinks about this subject. If you have MORE information then has been posted on this thread so far that would support your position then please enlighten us. If not, then you and all the other Cowboy fan poll participants are speculating just like the rest of us.Is that clear enough for you?![]()
How is this enforced, in practice, with a recalcitrant patient? What would keep the patient from hopping out of bed and walking out of the door? Would an attempted-suicide have a police detail just outside their room?If someone turns up in my emergency room as a suspected suicide attempt and I clear him medically, I am medically and legally bound to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are no ifs ands or buts here. If the psychiatrist has any inkling that he may be a danger to himself or others, he is medically and legally bound to place the patient under involuntary hold.
At least in California, where I practice, yes he MUST stay until the psychiatrist evaluates him. I can hold him against his will. California law is very clear on this. This is what I said page 13 or 14 of this thread, there is no credible evidence that he attempted suicide, because the facts as we know them just don't read like a suicide attempt.Think of it the other way, I let him go. He takes an overdose and dies - my insurance company will be settling with the family very quickly and even worse suppose he takes an OD and gets in a car and kills someone else. MD up the creek, possibly even losing his license.Thanks for the insight WD,When you say have him evaluated by a psychiatrist, do you mean right then? In other words, he stays there at the hospital until he is evaluated?JThis I can answer for fact. If someone turns up in my emergency room as a suspected suicide attempt and I clear him medically, I am medically and legally bound to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are no ifs ands or buts here. If the psychiatrist has any inkling that he may be a danger to himself or others, he is medically and legally bound to place the patient under involuntary hold. If the patients lawyer wants to get him released he must go to court to do that. The lawyer can't keep the psychiatrist or other authorized medical personal from instituting the hold, he must go to court.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image. What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
Will vouch for Bankerguy being a great source of news and opinion on the Dallas Cowboys also add Ridgelake to that listI've been mentioned as one of the better Cowboys posters. I was just trying to share what Cowboy fans thought.Please stop acting as though you speak for everyone. It's not your business to tell others they can't post things like what he posted. He did or said nothing out of line, even if you personally don't think it's worth anything. I'm really sick of people feeling they have the right to rip others whenever they feel like it. It didn't used to be allowed, but now it's become the norm.Attempt #3 - No, nobody cares what a group of Cowboys fans with the same or less information then the rest of the world has thinks about this subject. If you have MORE information then has been posted on this thread so far that would support your position then please enlighten us. If not, then you and all the other Cowboy fan poll participants are speculating just like the rest of us.Is that clear enough for you?![]()
Our hospital has private security. they would be posted outside his room. He can be tied to a bed with restraints. Occiaisonally if it a risk of harm to others handcuffs and police.How is this enforced, in practice, with a recalcitrant patient? What would keep the patient from hopping out of bed and walking out of the door? Would an attempted-suicide have a police detail just outside their room?If someone turns up in my emergency room as a suspected suicide attempt and I clear him medically, I am medically and legally bound to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are no ifs ands or buts here. If the psychiatrist has any inkling that he may be a danger to himself or others, he is medically and legally bound to place the patient under involuntary hold.
statement from the EMT or cops about TO's answers to their questions isn't significant?there is no credible evidence that he attempted suicide, because the facts as we know them just don't read like a suicide attempt.
Security guards, restraints, and if necessary, the police.How is this enforced, in practice, with a recalcitrant patient? What would keep the patient from hopping out of bed and walking out of the door? Would an attempted-suicide have a police detail just outside their room?If someone turns up in my emergency room as a suspected suicide attempt and I clear him medically, I am medically and legally bound to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are no ifs ands or buts here. If the psychiatrist has any inkling that he may be a danger to himself or others, he is medically and legally bound to place the patient under involuntary hold.
I can somewhat vouch for what Redman is saying. Unfortunately, experience has taught me that in MD, a person cannot be held against their will in a hospital unless 2 doctors confirm, indpendently, that they are a danger to themselves and others. There is actually a hearing in the hospital if the patient, or someone on their behalf, contests this finding. Being a "danger to themselves or others" is also evaluated frequently. Sometimes as often as asking the patient hourly "do you still feel like harming yourself?" If the answer is negative, the burden is then on the doctor to provide other valid reasons for determining the patient is dangerous to self or others.You're not getting it. If he doesn't want to be there they can't keep him unless they seek a court order to do so.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image.
What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
In my state, when there is an attempt to harm oneself, law enforcement is immediately involved and would be involved until a judge ruled whether they should be held for the 72 hour period or not. So yes, in Iowa, law enforcement officials would remain in the hospital until a ruling is made. I've done it many, many times.How is this enforced, in practice, with a recalcitrant patient? What would keep the patient from hopping out of bed and walking out of the door? Would an attempted-suicide have a police detail just outside their room?If someone turns up in my emergency room as a suspected suicide attempt and I clear him medically, I am medically and legally bound to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist. There are no ifs ands or buts here. If the psychiatrist has any inkling that he may be a danger to himself or others, he is medically and legally bound to place the patient under involuntary hold.
agreed Mojo. That was my point, that this was only the observations and reports made to the 1st responder and that the whole police screwed up and are backing away line of reasoning is baseless...of course I went away for 30 minutes and am now 4 pages behind, so things may have changed.Its the way it should be. PD was first reponder, will have to make an entry regarding their response, and if determined it is not a police matter, they may not even file a more formal report. I see it all the time. I try to track down a report and discover that the only record in existence is the response report. If there are no criminal charges to be filed, there is no reason for further.The report I read only contains statement given to the responding officers by the reporting party (unclear if the RP is the woman or the EMT). One area is unclear regarding whether the statements were made by the reporting party or the complainant (TO). Regardless, they are a record of what was said to the responding officer. There is no interpretation of the facts listed in the narrative. They reported what they were told at the scene. No more, no less. The police position is likely stating the obvious, that this is not a police matter so don't ask us about any of this mess because we just came to the scene like we were asked to do and wrote some stuff down like we are required to do...nothing more, nothing less. Translation: Regardless of what happened, this is a medical issue and not a police issue, ask the medical folks.Translation: our inexperienced responding officer misinterpreted the situation, filed a report that needlessly contained severe inaccuracies instead of just stating the KNOWN facts as such reports are supposed to do (that's why they have detectives who follow up), touched off a media firestorm, has enormous legal implications, and now we are backing away as fast as our legs will carry us.More facts.....RECAP: Dallas Police Briefing... ::EDITED:: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Police PCHow this information got out, we don't know.The official statement is that we WILL NOT have any further investigation on this matter. Anything more you need to know, will have to be obtained from Mr. Owens or the medical staff.We are not confirming or denying anything.I will not speculate on what happened.If you want the 911 tape you will have to make the request to the Fire Department. They are the keeper of the tapes.We are not persuing this as a criminal offense.I will not comment on the validity of the document (police report) you have.That's all.

interesting, good discussion btw. sounds like the fact that he was released so soon isn't necessarily indicative that it wasn't some type of a suicide attempt.I can somewhat vouch for what Redman is saying. Unfortunately, experience has taught me that in MD, a person cannot be held against their will in a hospital unless 2 doctors confirm, indpendently, that they are a danger to themselves and others. There is actually a hearing in the hospital if the patient, or someone on their behalf, contests this finding. Being a "danger to themselves or others" is also evaluated frequently. Sometimes as often as asking the patient hourly "do you still feel like harming yourself?" If the answer is negative, the burden is then on the doctor to provide other valid reasons for determining the patient is dangerous to self or others.You're not getting it. If he doesn't want to be there they can't keep him unless they seek a court order to do so.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image.
What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
it's actually Kipper, and kipper has Terler on his team.I'm pretty sure this is what Studs N' Duds always talks about playing with his friend moobers.We have a thread in here for bashing reporters for ruining fantast football and then comments like this make fantast football look bad. This guy may have tried to end his life and wether we like him or not it is a life. So now you hvae people running and trying to benefit their fantast team off this bad situation. Happened the other day with Simms too. People like this should be ashamed and maybe we should be bashing them and not the media.I just got T.O and Culpepper (dynasty league) for Santana Moss and Mike Turner. The guy didnt even think for 5 minutes......
Just to give you all what his value is right now at this second.
I would agree with this. There's just too much liability in letting him out if he made a serious attempt to hurt himself..interesting, good discussion btw. sounds like the fact that he was released so soon isn't necessarily indicative that it wasn't some type of a suicide attempt.I can somewhat vouch for what Redman is saying. Unfortunately, experience has taught me that in MD, a person cannot be held against their will in a hospital unless 2 doctors confirm, indpendently, that they are a danger to themselves and others. There is actually a hearing in the hospital if the patient, or someone on their behalf, contests this finding. Being a "danger to themselves or others" is also evaluated frequently. Sometimes as often as asking the patient hourly "do you still feel like harming yourself?" If the answer is negative, the burden is then on the doctor to provide other valid reasons for determining the patient is dangerous to self or others.You're not getting it. If he doesn't want to be there they can't keep him unless they seek a court order to do so.again, they didn't even keep him 24 hours, let alone 72and i think they would have no problem defending a decision to keep him a little while to make sure he's not a danger rather than risk releasing someone who's unstable, regardless of his celebrity status. they're going to take the word of someone they think attempted suicide less than 12 hours ago? doesn't make sense to me.For example, let's assume the initial reports of attempting to harm himself were true, but he turned up at the hospital, had his stomach pumped and is otherwise out of physical danger, and is now denying that he was attempting to hurt himself - perhaps by saying that he didn't know what he was saying. Moreover, his agent or attorney is also there and threatening to sue if he's not released because of the negative effect that this would have on his reputation and public image.
What do you think the hospital realistically will do given that situation? Go to court and seek injunctive relief that enables them to keep him involuntarily in their care for 72 (or whatever number of) hours for observation, or release him to the care of someone in his entourage who is insisting no doubt that they'll monitor him?![]()
Sooo, if this was all one big rush to judgement by the police and media and TO didn't attempt suicide......HE'S a jerk??Well, if it was all misinterpreted and he didn't attempt suicide, I hate him even more. Today I started feeling sorry for him, and praying he would be ok. I just heard he is laughing it off, saying the suicide report is totally false.
What a jerk.
At work here - can't listen to the press conference. Please update info (as if I had to ask)3:32PM ET...:tapsfoot:

Will try...have to leave for work in 11-16 minutes to get there on time...he's sitting down right nowAt work here - can't listen to the press conference. Please update info (as if I had to ask)3:32PM ET...:tapsfoot:![]()
Spears and James said TO was on the field right now running routes
this slipped by ... how crazy.Will Drew Rosenhaus be there?3:32PM ET...:tapsfoot:
From friend:"Lemme see what i can find, that was from the local dallas affiliate's sports guy, who was on CNN a few mins ago.....He is holding a press conference now......."Lifetime friend works for CNN (and more specifically, Nancy Grace (sorry)) and sent me an e-mail stating this:"Well folks, here comes the spin-TO's publicist says the medication mixed with nutritional supplements, and him being very "tired" was the reason he said he was trying to hurt himself....."I'm asking him for some sort of link or confirmation now since this thread demonstrated how important this verification is....
Exactly, that made no sense.It's obvious the media is spinning this thing. ESPN started this trend IMO. Sportscenter is nothing more than the "60 Minutes" of the sports world now and I refuse to watch, it makes me sick. It's ridiculous.Sooo, if this was all one big rush to judgement by the police and media and TO didn't attempt suicide......HE'S a jerk??Well, if it was all misinterpreted and he didn't attempt suicide, I hate him even more. Today I started feeling sorry for him, and praying he would be ok. I just heard he is laughing it off, saying the suicide report is totally false.
What a jerk.![]()