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Brett Favre -- 16 Seasons in GB, One Super Bowl Championship (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Moe Green
- Start date
Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Or start by asking the other 3 teams in the North and go from there.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
*** 1 SB Title
*** Another SB Appearance
*** 13 winning seasons
*** Only ONE losing season
*** 11 playoff appearances
*** 3-time MVP
*** 7 All Pros
I wouldn't be surprised if Favre, the competitor that he was, is disappointed at only getting one ring, but objectively his career was a resounding success both personally and from a team perspective.
*** Another SB Appearance
*** 13 winning seasons
*** Only ONE losing season
*** 11 playoff appearances
*** 3-time MVP
*** 7 All Pros
I wouldn't be surprised if Favre, the competitor that he was, is disappointed at only getting one ring, but objectively his career was a resounding success both personally and from a team perspective.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Sure, I wish he could have gotten another ring. But it is true that its a damn hard thing to do.Even the near perfect Pats could not do it this year.But any "disappointment" is easily put down by that jersey I bought in 1993 and have worn nearly every fall and winter sunday since then. Watching the same guy line up for nearly every snap for 16 years and do it quite well.He was a HUGE reason that GB is relevant again in the NFL. Thanks to what Ron Wolf did and the changes in the NFL (cap and revenue sharing) that aided a bit. Favre, Reggie (even with going to carolina and his faults and the speech), Wolf, Holmgren. Those guys are Packer legends forever. Gives me something to talk about with my kids and hopefully my grandkids someday. The way my mom and grandparents told me about Starr and Lombardi and Nitschke and Hornung....my wife and I can both tell my son about how we were there in the snow in 1998 as Reggie took a lap around Lambeau for his last regular season game as a Packer. And him coming there was largely because of Favre.After living 30 minutes from Green Bay and going to games as early as 1980 to 1990 when I moved to Tennessee (then back to games every year or so since then)....living through some bad teams up there....I got to watch a legend play in a legendary place. People get sick of hearing it...but its true.We got to watch one of the greatest play the game.
H.K.
Footballguy
Slinger said:
Whenever any fool tries to blame Marino's failure to win a title on anyone other than himself, give them the following history lesson:The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC. In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Fixed it for you.It was not all Favre.Slinger said:
The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC.
In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.
Ron Wolf Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
Wolf bringing in Favre, White, and Holmgren made them champions.
H.K.
Footballguy
Fixed it for you this time.Fixed it for you.It was not all Favre.Slinger said:
The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC.
In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.
Ron Wolf Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
Wolf bringing in Favre, White, and Holmgren made them champions.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?Fixed it for you this time.Fixed it for you.It was not all Favre.Slinger said:Whenever any fool tries to blame Marino's failure to win a title on anyone other than himself, give them the following history lesson:
The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC.
In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.
Ron Wolf Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
Wolf bringing in Favre, White, and Holmgren made them champions.
Should I just file this with one of your other worthless posts?
H.K.
Footballguy
I wouldn't say that Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it, but they were spokes on the wheel (important spokes, too) but Favre made the whole wheel go 'round....and you know this even if you won't admit it here.Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?
Should I just file this with one of your other worthless posts?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Favre was certainly the most important part of it....but I don't think he wins it without the other 2 mentioned.I wouldn't say that Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it, but they were spokes on the wheel (important spokes, too) but Favre made the whole wheel go 'round....and you know this even if you won't admit it here.Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?
Should I just file this with one of your other worthless posts?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Not disappointing. All-time greats like Marino, Fouts, Tarkenton, etc. never even won one.
Plus, Favre's Packers had unfortunate timing when they peaked, otherwise he easily could have won two more. They ran into the Dallas dynasty in '95, and then ran into a team on a mission (Denver Broncos) in '97. I know I am playing the coulda, woulda, shoulda game, but it is not like Favre's teams won one Super Bowl and then did little else. His team was one of the three or four best teams in the league probably four or five times; over a 16-year career, that is pretty darn good.
Plus, Favre's Packers had unfortunate timing when they peaked, otherwise he easily could have won two more. They ran into the Dallas dynasty in '95, and then ran into a team on a mission (Denver Broncos) in '97. I know I am playing the coulda, woulda, shoulda game, but it is not like Favre's teams won one Super Bowl and then did little else. His team was one of the three or four best teams in the league probably four or five times; over a 16-year career, that is pretty darn good.
Moe Green
Footballguy
Would you say it's a major disappointment for those all-time greats?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Probably. I am sure if you asked those players, they would say how happy they are with the careers they had, but would consider their lack of championships as being disappointments. But Favre did win a Super Bowl, and even though it was the only one, he did win one. Not every player is going to be in the right situation to win multiple championships. Heck, there are only, what, five or six QBs who have EVER won multiple Super Bowls, so I don't see how Favre failing to win a second is a disappointment.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Football is a team sport and you won't win a championship with a poor defense, or little help from your offense. People overrate titles for QB's IMO. They will conveniently use it to say so and so is better than the other guy, but then when you show that Bradshaw won 4 titles they say well, no, Bradshaw was not as good as all those QB's.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
My opinion is that if Marino were on better teams he would be thought of by others as the best QB to ever play the game. My opinion does not change because he didn't have the talent as other great QB's he is compared to. I think he was the best I ever saw (I am 41). he had GREAT pocket presence, he had great quickness to move within the pocket. he had the fastest release, a strong and accurate arm and he was very tough. Defensive coordinators only focused on stopping him and he was still amazingly successful with no help from the running attack and very little help from his defenses. the couple years he had good defenses, they got killed in the playoffs allowing 38-35 and 38 points to knock the Dolphins out. No other QB ever had to overcome their defense stinking so badly.
Eric Stratton
Footballguy
Disappointing? How can anyone think that? He played in a way that most players should play the game. He had fun, loved to play, and most agree we will never see another player like Favre.
I'd say that is quite an accomplishment in addition to everything else he did.
I'd say that is quite an accomplishment in addition to everything else he did.
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I'm a Packer fan and I think it was mildly disappointing that there was only one SB win during Favre's tenure. When the first Super Bowl was won, I think he was only 27 years old and we looked like the team to beat in the NFC going forward with Dallas and the 49ers getting hit hard with free agency and their stars getting older. Don't get me wrong..it was a blast watching Favre play and the team was always a contender with him, but after Favre's first Super Bowl win, I was definitely thinking with Favre being as young as he was and with the team around him, he could bring another one or two more SBs to the Pack.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
This thread blows. 
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
I was going to say, ask Dan Marino.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Think about it, there's 32 teams in the NFL now. On average, a team should win a Super Bowl once every 32 years. He won one in 16, when the odds were 50/50 that he would. Not disapointing.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
White came because of Favre...Holmgren probably wouldn't have been considered anything even remotely close to special without Favre...Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?Fixed it for you this time.Fixed it for you.It was not all Favre.Slinger said:
The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC.
In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.
Ron Wolf Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
Wolf bringing in Favre, White, and Holmgren made them champions.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
bro1ncos said:
Playing so many in a row really is a great accomplishment; more importantly playing at a high level and being healthy is what is more impressive. I do think he is behind some of the top few QB's though because of all his picks and some of the poorest decisions you will ever see from a QB who is being mentioned as one of the best ever. Those decisions did cost them some big games, but he also made some plays.I get the feeling that if you look at stats alone, his legacy will grow as people forget the boneheaded plays. His stats will look better as time goes on.Bottom line is that he had a great career. Where you rank him is opinion.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Of course he needed those two as well as the many other players. It is incredibly naive for anyone to think that you can win with only a few players. Football is the ultimate team sport and you need all 22 players AND the special teams to come through to win. Anyone who argues it is only because of one player simply doesn't understand the game of football.Roethlisberger won a title by going 9-21 fro only 123 yards and throwing 2 picks with no TD's. He was AWFUL with a 22.6 rating. They won because Randal El threw a 43 yard TD, the team ran for almost 200 yards and the defense allowed only 10 points...TEAM GAME.Favre was certainly the most important part of it....but I don't think he wins it without the other 2 mentioned.I wouldn't say that Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it, but they were spokes on the wheel (important spokes, too) but Favre made the whole wheel go 'round....and you know this even if you won't admit it here.Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?
Should I just file this with one of your other worthless posts?
As for Favre, no I don't think it is a disappointment, however as a GB fan posted prior, when you have a great QB, you hope your TEAM can win a few titles because the QB is the most important SINGLE component and you want to take advantage of that while you have it. Favre did have some very good teams around him and as a GB fan one would have though they could have won another title. Elway, earlier in his career had some average teams around him and wasn't able to win a title, but when they got the number 1 rushing attacks, they were able to win 2. The Dolphins should have been able to give Marino more help, but all their failed attempts at getting a running attack and failing to get some defensive support showed up by them allowing so many points in the playoffs. Guys like Fran Tarkenton and even Archie Manning never had enough talent around them.
For the record Terry Bradshaw won 4 playoffs games in a row - 2 of which were SB wins- where his TOTALS were 40-70 for 509 yards (127ypg), 3 TD's and 6 picks!!!!
Next time someone says so and so never won a title so I can't rate them higher than "Terry Bradshaw" just shake your head and walk away knowing that that person doesn't have a clue. The same can be said when overating QB's with titles. The Giants win this year is just another example of how important the entire team is to winning.
FOOTBALL IS THE ULTIMATE TEAM SPORT!!!!!
djcolts
Footballguy
This never gets enough play. It is FREAKING HARD to win a Super Bowl. Not disappointing.FUBAR said:bro1ncos said:Think about it, there's 32 teams in the NFL now. On average, a team should win a Super Bowl once every 32 years.
He won one in 16, when the odds were 50/50 that he would. Not disapointing.
H.K.
Footballguy
Interesting that it's only the ultimate team sport when you try to excuse Marino's failure to win a championship. It fails to be the ultimate team sport when you give Marino sole credit for his passing stats and not the other members of the team who helped him compile them. Again:The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to Marino's arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC title. Marino was supposed to be the final piece to a puzzle to put an already championship caliber team over the top for a coach that was one of the all-time greats. He failed to win a championship with teams that were certainly capable of it. He also played poorly in the playoffs, which was a primary reason for the Dolphins lack of post-season success in his tenure.In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.In the ultimate team sport, certain positions and players have a far greater impact than others. What was the one common thread in Dan Marino's career every year he did not win a Super Bowl? He was the QB. No revisionist history on your part will change that fact.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Wow, you really are obsessed with bashing Dan Marino whenever possible, aren't you? Are you Ray Finkle? /not a Marino fan
sho nuff
Footballguy
And Favre may have seen the bench early if another coach was in there rather than Holmgren.They both were great for each other. (ask either of them...they have said it many times)larry_boy_44 said:White came because of Favre...Holmgren probably wouldn't have been considered anything even remotely close to special without Favre...Yeah...Holmgren and White had nothing to do with it?Fixed it for you this time.Fixed it for you.It was not all Favre.
The five years prior to Marino being the Dolphins QB, Miami made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons and had a .652 winning percentage. Coach Shula had won several Super Bowls prior to his arrival, and Marino joined a team that had just won the AFC.
In stark contrast, the five years prior to Favre starting, Green Bay had zero playoff trips and a .371 winning percentage. Holmgren was in his first year ever as an HC, and Favre inherited a 4-12 team.
Ron Wolf Favre made the Packers champions. Marino's losing playoff record speaks for itself.
Wolf bringing in Favre, White, and Holmgren made them champions.
White did come because of Favre...but who brought both of them in?
All I said was that it was not all Favre.
I don't think GB wins a SB if you take one of those 3 from the equation (White, Holmgren, and Favre)
Black
Footballguy
My thoughts exactly...that guy gets reminded of the 0 rings about once/week on air.
H.K.
Footballguy
Nope. Obsessed with truth.Saying Marino didn't win a Super Bowl because his team wasn't good enough is a lie. His team was good enough to go to a Super Bowl right before he got there, and it was good enough to get there in his second season. However, Marino's play was never good enough to elevate the team to champion status.Losers point fingers and blame others.Winners get it done.If Marino were good enough to win a ring, he'd have played better when it mattered and he'd have one. He didn't, so he doesn't.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
I won't go down this same road with you as you are blinded by hate of Marino. You say things that are half truths just to prove your point. You don't even have a hint of objectivity in anything you post. I have already shown you in other threads how ludicrous your comments were/are and you still have never commented about the years where Miami was supposed to do well but their defense got torched for 35-44 points??? Those are the facts no matter how much you want to blame Marino.I also never said Marino accomplished the records all by himself so I would appreciate you stop making things up. What is true is that he had less talent around him than every single QB he is compared to. When you take a supporting role of RB, receiving threats and most importantly team defense, Marino clearly had MUCH less around him compared to the other great QB's that have won. Please tell me a QB he is compared to as the best ever who had less talent around him and won a title? You simply can't and if you don't think that matters than I might as well be talking to me 4 year old son. Brady is a great example of what he could do when he was surrounded by talent on offense. In the past his defense and special teams helped him a ton (and he is a great QB)
Some teams can win by getting hot, the Giants are a good example of that, but it was a TEAM effort
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H.K.
Footballguy
Already have. You might try reading the post you quoted. Remove your bias and seek the truth. How many times did Marino throw incompletions instead of moving the chains and keeping his defense rested? How many points did the Dolphins give up because of Marino's playoff interceptions? You conveniently play the "team" card when it suits you, yet omit it where it matters most.
Keep typing though, maybe the NFL will read your stuff and give Marino a ring because he could have won one if his team were better.
H.K.
Footballguy
Doesn't matter. He proved he could win it all by actually doing it. Marino never did, and he had plenty of chances.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
You are not obsessed with the truth in any way shape or form. Yes, the Dolphins did go to a SB right before (in a strike shortened year).In Marino's rookie year he did not start until the team was 3-2 (So this team was not as ready as you say). In Marino's first start the offense put up 35 points but lost 38-35. After starting 3-3 the team went 9-1 the rest of the way. They did get bounced 27-20 in his rookie year from the playoffs. But, this was the best record Miami had compiled since 1973...in his rookie year.In Marino's first full year as a starter they went 14-2 (most wins ever) and only got got back to the SB when the offense overcame 28 points allowed by their defense against Pittsburgh. Marino had a terrific game throwing for 421 yards and 4 TD's to help the team get to the SB. Unfortunately they ran into the juggernaut 49ers who put up 38 points on them in what was really a home game for them.From then on the team was not as strong except for around 1990, but the Bills were really tough all around then and Miami lost 44-34 in the divisional game against Buffalo. A trend was also evident that Miami did pretty well on their home games, but when they had to go on the road and rely on the run, they simply didn't have the ability to do that. From 1990 on, Miami was on the road in the playoffs for 7 games and only won one of those games...it was the game where Lamar Smith rushed for 200 yards (not a coincidence) and it was Marino's farewell year.Marino didn't miss many games, but for perspective, when Marino ruptured his achilles, Miami was 4-1. That year without Marino, the team lost their final 5 games of the year. The next year with Marino the team started out 7-2 and went to the playoffs. This can never be proven but it is my opinion that if Marino were given the talent around him compared to the QB's that people talk about being the greatest ever, Marino would be the clear choice. Even without it, most people claim him to be the greatest "thrower" ever.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Really? Please show me where in your post does it show that Favre won a ring with less talent? Obviously, you are not referring to the one ring that Favre got because that would be ludicrous considering that the championship year just happened to be the year that GB's defense was #1 in the league in points allowed AND #1 in yards allowed? Do you think just maybe there is a correlation between a #1 defense and winning?I am done discussing this with you as you bring NOTHING to the table
H.K.
Footballguy
Oh good lord!!! You know, in this ultimate team sport of football, you may have missed a few things thathappened in that game. There is no mention of the Miami offense getting shut out in the second half....No mention of the Dolphins failing to get in the end zone in the early going with FG's when they were in scoring range...No mention of Marino's 2 INT's...No mention of him getting sacked four times despite an OL that only gave up 13 that season and his uncanny ability to move around the pocket and use his quick release to avoid disaste...No mention of how many times the offense went three and out...Again, losers make excuses while winners get it done.You'll never admit that Marino did not play well enough for his team to win that game or many others in the playoffs, but thankfully reality does not have your bias.
H.K.
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I guess that means the 2007 version of Tom Brady was a loser, then. Got it.
Miami NEVER finished number 1 in total defense when Marino was there. They did finish 1st in points allowed twice: in '83, his rookie year, and '98, the year no one was stopping the Denver Broncos.And from '84-'97, the Dolphins finished in the bottom half of the league in total defense 12 times, while finishing in the upper half twice.
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H.K.
Footballguy
I guess that means the 2007 version of Tom Brady was a loser, then. Got it. Your words, not mine. Tom Brady has proved he is capable of being a champion. Marino never did.
Miami NEVER finished number 1 in total defense when Marino was there. They did finish 1st in points allowed twice: in '83, his rookie year, and '98, the year no one was stopping the Denver Broncos.Fact: Marino twice had a #1 Defense for points against.
And from '84-'97, the Dolphins finished in the bottom half of the league in total defense 12 times, while finishing in the upper half twice.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
H.K. said:Liquid Tension said:
It is obvious you have never played any sport at a high level because you simply have NO clue or the mental abilities to have a realistic conversation. Go live in your dream world and your always incorrect predictions on Brandon Jacobs being "an absolute failure" and how the Giants were going to stink this year and all the other sig bets you lose... This is just another example of how wrong you are at every turn.Chicago Hooligan
Footballguy
Brett Favre sure is awesome huh guys.
Liquid Tension
Footballguy
Not only that those "great" defenses for Marino got torched in the playoffs. how many times did GB allow 30 points with their defense? In fact, name another team to allow 35 points in the playoffs and win a SB or playoff game.He is only clinging to this just like his other arguments; don't waste your timeGhost Rider said:I guess that means the 2007 version of Tom Brady was a loser, then. Got it.H.K. said:Miami NEVER finished number 1 in total defense when Marino was there. They did finish 1st in points allowed twice: in '83, his rookie year, and '98, the year no one was stopping the Denver Broncos.And from '84-'97, the Dolphins finished in the bottom half of the league in total defense 12 times, while finishing in the upper half twice.H.K. said:Liquid Tension said:
