Brett Favre vs Vince Young...very similar situations (1 Viewer)

[FavreCo]

at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone.

I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.

A-FREAKING-Men!!

Biggest NFL QB turd in history: Carr because he fooled a franchise longer than Harrington, Couch, Young, and every other worthless over-rated so-called QB has.

This analogy doesn't just have holes....it's the titanic of comparisons.

 

[Tau837]

I think, sadly, the reason fans tolerate things like Favre's addiction is that it's perceived as "TOUGH." Favre was taking pills to stay on the field and "play hurt." So fans project that as a positive trait in their players. Whereas Young's personal demons appear to be keeping him from wanting to play; which is anathema for fans.

I don't understand the premise. In what way did fans "tolerate" Favre's addiction? Are you saying that because Favre was cheered and loved by the fans both before and after that came out? I'd submit that he was cheered and loved by fans because of his play on the field. It had nothing to do with supporting (or not) his addiction.Are you saying that because Favre is a beloved player, and was largely cheered and fawned over even when he played poorly? I'd submit that happened later in his career after he had already established himself as a great QB and done so much good for Green Bay that he had built up goodwill that carried him through his down seasons.

I just cannot see any comparison between the Favre and Young situations. I don't see people saying they don't want Young to get the help he needs. Just as people presumably wanted Favre to get the help he needed. But people are justifiably down on Young's play as an NFL QB. If it turns out part of the reason for his disappointing play is clinical depression, that is very unfortunate. But IMO the majority of fans differentiate between how they judge a player's performance and judge a player on a personal level. I doubt anyone would say they don't want Young to get the help he needs on a personal level. But I also don't understand why some expect that to mean that it is inappropriate to criticize Young's play, which has been generally poor.

Now, if the question becomes about toughness, I'd agree that Favre would be viewed as "tough" for going through what he did, whereas Young would not be viewed that way for going through clinical depression. But I don't see people complaining that Vince isn't tough. I see people complaining that he hasn't been a better QB. There is a difference.

ETA: And I don't see where race figures into this at all, if that's supposed to be the underlying point of this thread. MOP tried to suggest race is a factor by comparing the Favre and Young situations, but they are not comparable situations, so the premise is flawed. As others have rightly pointed out, other white QBs who played far below expectations have been criticized just as much as Young has been. And Kerry Collins is a closer comparison to Young in terms of their off field issues IMO, and he was treated similarly to Young. If race is a factor here, it hasn't been demonstrated so far.

 

[Jason Wood]

I think, sadly, the reason fans tolerate things like Favre's addiction is that it's perceived as "TOUGH." Favre was taking pills to stay on the field and "play hurt." So fans project that as a positive trait in their players. Whereas Young's personal demons appear to be keeping him from wanting to play; which is anathema for fans.

I don't understand the premise. In what way did fans "tolerate" Favre's addiction? Are you saying that because Favre was cheered and loved by the fans both before and after that came out? I'd submit that he was cheered and loved by fans because of his play on the field. It had nothing to do with supporting (or not) his addiction.Are you saying that because Favre is a beloved player, and was largely cheered and fawned over even when he played poorly? I'd submit that happened later in his career after he had already established himself as a great QB and done so much good for Green Bay that he had built up goodwill that carried him through his down seasons.

I just cannot see any comparison between the Favre and Young situations. I don't see people saying they don't want Young to get the help he needs. Just as people presumably wanted Favre to get the help he needed. But people are justifiably down on Young's play as an NFL QB. If it turns out part of the reason for his disappointing play is clinical depression, that is very unfortunate. But IMO the majority of fans differentiate between how they judge a player's performance and judge a player on a personal level. I doubt anyone would say they don't want Young to get the help he needs on a personal level. But I also don't understand why some expect that to mean that it is inappropriate to criticize Young's play, which has been generally poor.

Now, if the question becomes about toughness, I'd agree that Favre would be viewed as "tough" for going through what he did, whereas Young would not be viewed that way for going through clinical depression. But I don't see people complaining that Vince isn't tough. I see people complaining that he hasn't been a better QB. There is a difference.

ETA: And I don't see where race figures into this at all, if that's supposed to be the underlying point of this thread. MOP tried to suggest race is a factor by comparing the Favre and Young situations, but they are not comparable situations, so the premise is flawed. As others have rightly pointed out, other white QBs who played far below expectations have been criticized just as much as Young has been. And Kerry Collins is a closer comparison to Young in terms of their off field issues IMO, and he was treated similarly to Young. If race is a factor here, it hasn't been demonstrated so far.

Hey JWB, give the blog post a read. I don't think race plays into this AT ALL; but I do think there's a huge discrepancy between the way fans (and the world at large) handle mental illness and physical illness. I'm not even sure that's what Vince Young is dealing with, but he's certainly not being given the benefit of the doubt. Ironic when you consider the perception of him coming out of UT.

 

[HoTnickZ]

at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone. I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.

He asked a question? That's an accusation? People need to get over themselves. We are flawed, to respond so strongly that it is not possible something like this could be prevalent in people's subconscious stream of thinking is a joke. I don't mind dismissing it, but no need to be overly sensitive about these things. Race should be an open issue in this day and age.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP....this is THE worst thread you have ever started. You're an idiot and deserve that based on your premise of this thread. Wake up, son. I have no problem getting a TO for his. I thought you had some knowledge of football.

quality stuff here. I simply wanted to know why VY is being thrown under the bus, guess it was the unpopular POV, so now I get the same treatment that VY is getting.

I don't think I name called, not sure why you would want to go that route, but hey if that is all you can come up, more power to you.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.

MOP, I don't recall hearing about depression when Favre was hooked on Vicodin. And as far as I am concerned, Vince Young the person is the most important thing to get well. Whether he plays football again or not really isn't that important. But I do think race is rearing its ugly head here to some extent. Whether people want to admit it or not. Vince needs support, unfortunately many people are simpyl too shallow to realize this. Good luck Vince.

I wonder if most of the people railing because I simply brought up race...I wonder if they are Black or White...there are pockets of the country unfortunately where people don't believe race factors into anything...my experience is that it does. Maybe the Favre comparison was a bit much but I was simply stating that he had some issues in his apst, we all stood behind him...why don't we stand behind Vince Young and offer encouragement for him to get well? I could care less if he ever picks up a football again, I just am a little surprised by how few posters think race is not an issue here at all. maybe it's not but I felt it needed to be tlaked about. This was not a white guy trying to put a guilt trip on folks...I was not trying to do that. And to anyone that thinks this thread is terrible, props out, good for you, we'll try harder next time. I simply wanted to ask the SP for feedback...why are people/posters going on the attack in this thread? i jusut don't get it and the name calling is pretty bottom feeder when I certainly didn't single anyone out.You notice even when FC and I got a little heated that i took the high road. You see that I even apologize for not making clear what I wanted to say in the OP...not sure what else I can do, and the reality is you can't please everyone.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.

Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.

Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.

MOP -- while I think your specific analogy has a few holes, the spirit of what you're saying has a lot of merit.As to Favre, you're right that he came out publicly with an addiction to Vicodin and spent time in rehab prior to the 96 season. The same season when he won his 2nd of 3 MVPs and the Super Bowl. But he was hardly an unproven prospect at that time, having already won the league's MVP award.

I think, sadly, the reason fans tolerate things like Favre's addiction is that it's perceived as "TOUGH." Favre was taking pills to stay on the field and "play hurt." So fans project that as a positive trait in their players. Whereas Young's personal demons appear to be keeping him from wanting to play; which is anathema for fans.

I blogged about this very issue yesterday, if you're interested:

http://blog.footballguys.com/2008/09/10/is...really-helping/

Let’s be honest, the NFL is a game built around toughness. Whether it’s fair or not isn’t in question, it’s the reality of the game we all love to watch and participate in via our fantasy leagues. Players are expected to play through pain. Iron men like Brett Favre spend years taking heavy pain medication to gut out games, and when he comes clean about it, we salute him for his courage and toughness. Peyton Manning has knee surgery and less than two months later is back leading his team. Shawne Merriman disregarded the medical opinions of some of the country’s best doctors in order to suit up for San Diego last week; and it only helped to increase fandom’s opinion of him.

But what about mental pain? Are we as quick to applaud players when they’re dealing with psychological issues? The world saluted Terrell Owens for playing in the Super Bowl after suffering a bone break; but were they as supportive of him when news came out about a potential depression that resulted in an accidental overdose? Were Philadelphia Eagles fans praising Shawn Andrews to “get healthy” when he missed training camp with clinical depression? Not so much.

Now we have the Vince Young situation to deal with. By now you’ve read the reports. Vince Young was distraught during the Week One game against the Jaguars (a game the Titans won by the way), and that night Titans officials involved the police in a search for Young after they couldn’t reach him via cellphone.

Rumors have swirled over the last 48 hours about his mental state, his passion for the game, and his future with the Titans.

According to several reports, including ESPN:

Young was the subject of a four-hour search Monday night by Nashville police, who were called by Titans coach Jeff Fisher after Young’s family members expressed concern about Young’s “emotional well-being,” according to police.

Major Adams, Young’s agent, went on the defensive and denied any depression-related issues:

Vince Young’s agent, Major Adams, told ESPN reporter George Smith that he didn’t know why the story has taken on a life of its own.

Adams said he called Young’s friend’s house after hearing that Young was missing. Adams said the quarterback was upbeat and watching the Monday night games, and confirmed that Young was without his cell phone.

As for reports about depression or Young’s fragile emotional state, Adams told Smith they’re “unfounded.”

“It’s the first time I’ve heard that. I know he’s not battling depression,” Adams said. “He’s fine mentally. I think it’s a misunderstanding and misinformation.”

Which brings us to Vince Young’s mother…

Felicia Young and her son are close; that’s a well established fact. Like many athletes, Young has gone out of his way to credit his mother’s influence on his life. It’s only natural that a loving mother would have strong opinions about the well-being of her child. But should she air those concerns in the media?

From the Tennessean newspaper:

* “Vince has gone through a whole lot as a young person,” Felicia Young said. “And I think he has done pretty well up to this point. But it is hard, all he is going through right now. He’s hurting inside and out.”

* “What would you think, if you were tired of being ridiculed and persecuted and talked about and not being treated very well, what would you do? What kind of decision would you make?” Felicia Young said. “He may not want to deal with it (all), but you have to get to that point before you make that decision first.”

Shouldn’t Felicia understand that acknowledging his emotional state actually serves as a disservice to her son? Again, I’m NOT saying it should be that way, but at what point do you have to accept the reality of your given situation? In the NFL, you can get arrested and not lose your job; whereas I would be given my walking papers most likely. That’s MY given situation. On the flip side, if I had some kind of physical or mental illness, I’m betting my employers would be pretty understanding as I dealt through the process. In the NFL, where you have to be TOUGH (whatever that means), it’s sadly difficult if not impossible to brush off reports of depression or lack of passion easily.

So what do you think? Are you concerned about Vince Young’s football future? Do you think this situation should’ve been treated differently by the Titans, his agent, his mother, his friends? Let’s hear your thoughts.

Thanks Jason

 

[HoTnickZ]

I think, sadly, the reason fans tolerate things like Favre's addiction is that it's perceived as "TOUGH." Favre was taking pills to stay on the field and "play hurt." So fans project that as a positive trait in their players. Whereas Young's personal demons appear to be keeping him from wanting to play; which is anathema for fans.

I don't understand the premise. In what way did fans "tolerate" Favre's addiction? Are you saying that because Favre was cheered and loved by the fans both before and after that came out? I'd submit that he was cheered and loved by fans because of his play on the field. It had nothing to do with supporting (or not) his addiction.Are you saying that because Favre is a beloved player, and was largely cheered and fawned over even when he played poorly? I'd submit that happened later in his career after he had already established himself as a great QB and done so much good for Green Bay that he had built up goodwill that carried him through his down seasons.

I just cannot see any comparison between the Favre and Young situations. I don't see people saying they don't want Young to get the help he needs. Just as people presumably wanted Favre to get the help he needed. But people are justifiably down on Young's play as an NFL QB. If it turns out part of the reason for his disappointing play is clinical depression, that is very unfortunate. But IMO the majority of fans differentiate between how they judge a player's performance and judge a player on a personal level. I doubt anyone would say they don't want Young to get the help he needs on a personal level. But I also don't understand why some expect that to mean that it is inappropriate to criticize Young's play, which has been generally poor.

Now, if the question becomes about toughness, I'd agree that Favre would be viewed as "tough" for going through what he did, whereas Young would not be viewed that way for going through clinical depression. But I don't see people complaining that Vince isn't tough. I see people complaining that he hasn't been a better QB. There is a difference.

ETA: And I don't see where race figures into this at all, if that's supposed to be the underlying point of this thread. MOP tried to suggest race is a factor by comparing the Favre and Young situations, but they are not comparable situations, so the premise is flawed. As others have rightly pointed out, other white QBs who played far below expectations have been criticized just as much as Young has been. And Kerry Collins is a closer comparison to Young in terms of their off field issues IMO, and he was treated similarly to Young. If race is a factor here, it hasn't been demonstrated so far.

Hey JWB, give the blog post a read. I don't think race plays into this AT ALL; but I do think there's a huge discrepancy between the way fans (and the world at large) handle mental illness and physical illness. I'm not even sure that's what Vince Young is dealing with, but he's certainly not being given the benefit of the doubt. Ironic when you consider the perception of him coming out of UT.

 

[T Bell]

Favre was already putting up pro-bowl numbers when he got hooked on the junk.

Didn't Vince Young make the Pro Bowl as a rookie?

Yeah, it was pretty funny too. Gus Frerotte made it once as well.

 

[PatrickT]

:( at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone.

I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.

He asked a question? That's an accusation? People need to get over themselves. We are flawed, to respond so strongly that it is not possible something like this could be prevalent in people's subconscious stream of thinking is a joke. I don't mind dismissing it, but no need to be overly sensitive about these things. Race should be an open issue in this day and age.

And that's the fundamental disagreement for me. Race should be NO issue. But it will continue to be as long we have people manufacturing racial issues where none exist.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Cause he didn't quit on his team. In the middle of a game.Cause he got booed.ETA, I don't see these situations as even remotely similar.

speaking of quitting on your team, who's the VY's backup again?

Not sure what your point is. Last I checked, Kerry Collins isn't heralded around the league as the model of QB proficiency...he's a backup to a 3rd year talent who has yet to justify his draft position. Kerry Collins took a lot of crap for his early antics and has never reached his potential because of it. I'd not say he got a pass. He may actually be a pretty good picture of VY years from now if VY can get his head back in the game. If VY can't, take a picture of Ryan Leaf.I'd also like to know how we fantasy footballers are "giving VY the shaft" anyway. There are some who don't believe he suffers from real depression. So what? Have any of his supporters seen a clinical diagnosis? There are some who think he just lacks the tools to be a good NFL QB. So what? We're being mean and unfair just because we don't think the guy's good enough? I'm not sure how having a different opinion on a guy's talent somehow implicates one as a racist.If the guy really has clinical depression, I think you'll find that 99.9% of the posters on this BB, even his detractors, wish him the best and hope he recovers. The same will be true of TN fans. No one is sticking pins in VY voodoo dolls or wishing him ill as far as I know.But to claim he's somehow being treated unfairly because people think he's not that good and that his emotional issues just seal the deal is pure BS. He's not owed anything by TN, the fans or members of the SP. If he can produce on the field, he'll keep his job. If he can't, he won't. In the NFL, those who can do, those who can't end up getting cut. The system pretty much polices itself. The free agency pool is full of guys who lacked the talent and tools to make it in the NFL. To argue that he should be free from criticism or accountability because he might have a mental illness is silly. If VY lacks the emotional/mental makeup to be a successful NFL caliber QB, why should the TN fans want to keep him as their QB?Why does Favre get a pass? Because he came back and was successful. He earned it. His deal was also made public AFTER he was in recovery...which tells how different his and VY's situations are. Favre was able to keep his issue pretty quiet. I don't remember him ever leaving the field and refusing to go back in. That kinda thing tends to attract attention. VY will get a pass if he comes back and is successful, the same as Favre did. But to argue that he's entitled to a pass BEFORE he earns it is rather odd.

 

[JamesTheScot]

Hey JWB, give the blog post a read. I don't think race plays into this AT ALL; but I do think there's a huge discrepancy between the way fans (and the world at large) handle mental illness and physical illness. I'm not even sure that's what Vince Young is dealing with, but he's certainly not being given the benefit of the doubt. Ironic when you consider the perception of him coming out of UT.

That's the issue in and of itself. A broken bone shows up on an X-ray. A torn ACL shows up on an MRI. There's no faking it. There's no question an injury is there.What's the objective test for depression? How do we differentiate between a person who is depressed due to physiological factors or a spoiled immature person who simply can't take criticism or handle pressure? We can't objectively prove that. Therefore subjective evaluation is the rule of the say when it comes to mental illness. The fact that you aren't even sure that's what VY is dealing with is evidence of this.

Try this out for comparison...

Ligaments and connective tissue can be permanently damaged without being torn or severed. This is true in many "whiplash" cases. Unfortunately, there is no objective measure or diagnostic test to assist us in determining whether someone who is still complaining of neck pain two years after an auto accident is truly permanently injured or just trying to make a big payday by faking it for a jury.

Who gets the benefit of the doubt in those cases? I can tell you. Almost no one. Public perception is that anyone wearng a neck brace or claiming whiplash is faking it. Why is that?

 

[HoTnickZ]

at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone.

I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.

He asked a question? That's an accusation? People need to get over themselves. We are flawed, to respond so strongly that it is not possible something like this could be prevalent in people's subconscious stream of thinking is a joke. I don't mind dismissing it, but no need to be overly sensitive about these things. Race should be an open issue in this day and age.

And that's the fundamental disagreement for me. Race should be NO issue. But it will continue to be as long we have people manufacturing racial issues where none exist.

I agree. It should.

 

[Jason Wood]

Hey JWB, give the blog post a read. I don't think race plays into this AT ALL; but I do think there's a huge discrepancy between the way fans (and the world at large) handle mental illness and physical illness. I'm not even sure that's what Vince Young is dealing with, but he's certainly not being given the benefit of the doubt. Ironic when you consider the perception of him coming out of UT.

That's the issue in and of itself. A broken bone shows up on an X-ray. A torn ACL shows up on an MRI. There's no faking it. There's no question an injury is there.What's the objective test for depression? How do we differentiate between a person who is depressed due to physiological factors or a spoiled immature person who simply can't take criticism or handle pressure? We can't objectively prove that. Therefore subjective evaluation is the rule of the say when it comes to mental illness. The fact that you aren't even sure that's what VY is dealing with is evidence of this.

Try this out for comparison...

Ligaments and connective tissue can be permanently damaged without being torn or severed. This is true in many "whiplash" cases. Unfortunately, there is no objective measure or diagnostic test to assist us in determining whether someone who is still complaining of neck pain two years after an auto accident is truly permanently injured or just trying to make a big payday by faking it for a jury.

Who gets the benefit of the doubt in those cases? I can tell you. Almost no one. Public perception is that anyone wearng a neck brace or claiming whiplash is faking it. Why is that?

Again I think it comes down to the default reaction. In football, the default reaction to a physical injury is to take it as legitimate unless the player has a history of behavior or problems that makes us worry he might be sandbagging it. When it comes to mental illness, the default is to assume it's invalid. That's a shame.

 

[mdog1967]

Dude, it's because he sucks...and should be lining up at WR along with most of the other scrambling QB's that can't throw.

Young has gone 18-11, and helped take the Titans to the playoffs when they weren't all that great to begin with. Does he have a WR1 that would start for any other team?Can you expand on it besides "He suxor"...so why again doesn't Young get the same treatment Favre got?

The Titans were 18-11 in spite of VY not because of him, so lets lay off that point if contention. I prayed like hell that the Texans were going to draft him ahead of Williams and Reggie Bush, I am really glad at this point that it didn't happen. I dont know what the Heck Race has got to do with it and I sure get tired of that sorry excuse being brought up.VY "apparently" has issues that need a professional to help him sort out. Those issues are also pointedly made by his refusal to work with Norm Chow, his alleged refusal to go back out and play this last week, and highlighted by the fact his family was concerned enough to call the coaching staff.VY will always be a college sports hero for knocking the mighty Trojans out in the championship. Vince just "may" have no desire to put himself through the grind of the NFL, if he decides to hang it up god bless him and good luck.

 

[bcr8f]

It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And(Vicodin-stronger than codeine) we all gave it to him(not Vikings fans ) ...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.

Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.

Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.

He is being given a chance isn't he? Favre got started when he got hurt and after healthy kept taking more and more of them.

 

[PatrickT]

at the venom spewed towards MOP and VY.. like they murdered someone.

I guess that's what happens when people are not comfortable or secure about race relations. So he threw out a theory, he mentioned race, big deal.

I'm glad you threw the laughing icon out there, cause that must be a joke. Didn't sound like a theory to me, sounded like an accusation. And he still hasn't answered my response of "Young quit on his team, and Favre didn't", while answering other posts where he could drive home the race theory.Perhaps we're not the ones uncomfortable with race relations, rather, it's the people who continually have to bring it up and try to make a federal case out of every perceived slight to a black person.

Nothing, I repeat, nothing has been "spewed" at VY that wasn't spewed at Carr, Couch, Harrington and dozens of other QBs who didn't live up to expectations, and I wish people would stop trying to inject race into every damn conversation.

He asked a question? That's an accusation? People need to get over themselves. We are flawed, to respond so strongly that it is not possible something like this could be prevalent in people's subconscious stream of thinking is a joke. I don't mind dismissing it, but no need to be overly sensitive about these things. Race should be an open issue in this day and age.

And that's the fundamental disagreement for me. Race should be NO issue. But it will continue to be as long we have people manufacturing racial issues where none exist.

I agree. It should.

Granted, there's reality and what should be, but injecting it into every conversation doesn't help. It's far too often used as a shield to fend off criticism. "Hey, there's nothing really wrong with me/my ideas/my performance, people only hate me because I'm black". It's a far too common cop out.

 

[Tau837]

Hey JWB, give the blog post a read. I don't think race plays into this AT ALL; but I do think there's a huge discrepancy between the way fans (and the world at large) handle mental illness and physical illness. I'm not even sure that's what Vince Young is dealing with, but he's certainly not being given the benefit of the doubt. Ironic when you consider the perception of him coming out of UT.

That's the issue in and of itself. A broken bone shows up on an X-ray. A torn ACL shows up on an MRI. There's no faking it. There's no question an injury is there.What's the objective test for depression? How do we differentiate between a person who is depressed due to physiological factors or a spoiled immature person who simply can't take criticism or handle pressure? We can't objectively prove that. Therefore subjective evaluation is the rule of the say when it comes to mental illness. The fact that you aren't even sure that's what VY is dealing with is evidence of this.

Try this out for comparison...

Ligaments and connective tissue can be permanently damaged without being torn or severed. This is true in many "whiplash" cases. Unfortunately, there is no objective measure or diagnostic test to assist us in determining whether someone who is still complaining of neck pain two years after an auto accident is truly permanently injured or just trying to make a big payday by faking it for a jury.

Who gets the benefit of the doubt in those cases? I can tell you. Almost no one. Public perception is that anyone wearng a neck brace or claiming whiplash is faking it. Why is that?

Again I think it comes down to the default reaction. In football, the default reaction to a physical injury is to take it as legitimate unless the player has a history of behavior or problems that makes us worry he might be sandbagging it. When it comes to mental illness, the default is to assume it's invalid. That's a shame.

I don't assume it's invalid. If he broke his leg and was out for several weeks, I'd still be criticizing his play as a QB. That doesn't mean I hope his leg doesn't heal up and he can get back on the field and improve. Same situation here. I am critical of his play as a QB. I hope he can get his issue treated and get back on the field and improve at some point.However, there is a difference that causes people to view Young's situation differently. First, we don't know that he has a mental illness. If he does, and that news is made public, I suspect that would soften the reaction about his play. But that hasn't happened. Second, the possibility that he's ready to quit on his team has been raised multiple times - in last week's game and previous to that when he supposedly said he was considering retirement.

A player quitting on his team, especially a key player like a starting QB and especially in the wake of poor play, is never going to be viewed favorably, unless it is known that the player had legitimate reasons to do so. But unless and until some specifics are revealed about Young having a mental illness or some other "legitimate" reason for his poor play and actions, he will receive plenty of criticism.

 

[bbuster]

It dawned on me that some of you don't even know that Brett Favre at one time, early in his career, came out and admitted that he was addicted to painkillers...codeine I believe. He asked the Packers for help, asked for the forgiveness of the fans, and asked for forgiveness from the league. And we all gave it to him...and I think he won the SB later that year IIRC.Favre said that the painkillers after awhile took away some of his depression as well, although it all caught up to him.Now we find out that Vince Young may be perhaps suffering from depression. Why won't we give him a chance? Why do we want to throw him under the bus? Is it a race thing? Be honest, and if this has to be moved to the FFA, I understand but I sure would like to know why one gets a pass and the other is being piled on.

I may have missed it, but so far I haven't seen VY come out and ask for help/forgiveness. Favre came out and admitted he had a problem and got the help he needed...and it certainly didn't hurt that he followed it with great success(SB) I think that people here have been quite supportive here of VY the man, maybe not so much the football player. I also think that if VY came out and said "hey, I'm having some issues with depression and I need to get some help" and admitted that his reaction to being booed was unacceptable, but related to his depression, that people might be more sympathetic. Instead, so far we've only heard from his mom. Not really the same situation...and definitely not a race issue. That's just plain silly.