British 10 year old girl will be youngest Chess grandmaster ever; just defeated world champion (3 Viewers)

[timschochet]

Simply amazing.

https://www.financialexpress.com/world-news/who-is-bodhana-sivanandan-10-year-old-indian-origin-chess-prodigy-becomes-youngest-player-to-beat-a-world-champion/4016896/lite/

 

[Scoresman]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

 

[timschochet]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

It’s a fair question. I think it also applies to billiards and perhaps bowling? But certainly to chess.

The answer is cultural: because chess has traditionally been a man’s contest the pool of women who have competed at high levels is very small. Back when I used to go to open chess tournaments around 30 years ago there were women there but the ratio was something like 20-1 men. But this is changing.

 

[SWC]

i could totally win against her take that to the bank brohans

 

[Jayrod]

I was also surprised that the peak for a chess player is similar to that of a professional athlete and once they hit their 40's they start to decline and are past their prime.

 

[SWC]

I was also surprised that the peak for a chess player is similar to that of a professional athlete and once they hit their 40's they start to decline and are past their prime.

except me brohan i am aging like a fine wine the older i get the better i get and that includes looking take that to the bank brochacho

 

[tri-man 47]

I was also surprised that the peak for a chess player is similar to that of a professional athlete and once they hit their 40's they start to decline and are past their prime.

@Sand , @Psychopav - take note. This will be new excuse as I keep losing to both of you in our ongoing games.

 

[timschochet]

I was also surprised that the peak for a chess player is similar to that of a professional athlete and once they hit their 40's they start to decline and are past their prime.

It’s the amount of time you put into it. Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying. At some point you want to do other things.

 

[Kanil]

There's a zero percent chance she could stop me.*


















*From flipping the table 4 moves in

 

[msudaisy26]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

It’s a fair question. I think it also applies to billiards and perhaps bowling? But certainly to chess.

The answer is cultural: because chess has traditionally been a man’s contest the pool of women who have competed at high levels is very small. Back when I used to go to open chess tournaments around 30 years ago there were women there but the ratio was something like 20-1 men. But this is changing.

I don't know about chess or billiards, but it applies in bowling and it needs to. The women would be dominated in bowling much like golf.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

It’s a fair question. I think it also applies to billiards and perhaps bowling? But certainly to chess.

The answer is cultural: because chess has traditionally been a man’s contest the pool of women who have competed at high levels is very small. Back when I used to go to open chess tournaments around 30 years ago there were women there but the ratio was something like 20-1 men. But this is changing.

I don't know about chess or billiards, but it applies in bowling and it needs to. The women would be dominated in bowling much like golf.

Yeah, there is a physical component to bowling. Weight of the ball, how hard you can throw it etc.

 

[Jayrod]

On a related note, a friend of mine who's son is a competitive shooter (got into the Air Force Academy on their rifle team) said that girls are believed to be better shooters than men. He said that the open divisions are dominated by the women and that they split into men/women to give the men a better chance against one another.

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

 

[Sand]

Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying.

Since a week only has 168 hours, I guess they get access to the time dilation machines?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

I think its because men are superior intellectually to women.

 

[fruity pebbles]

On a related note, a friend of mine who's son is a competitive shooter (got into the Air Force Academy on their rifle team) said that girls are believed to be better shooters than men. He said that the open divisions are dominated by the women and that they split into men/women to give the men a better chance against one another.

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

I could see that. I went into the Marines never shooting a rifle. Did fantastic on the range. A lot of the kids who had the most problems were the Kentucky windage crew. They pretty much tell you to forget everything you know going in.

 

[Zow]

i could totally win against her take that to the bank brohans

You'd have a better chance to beat her at the limbo.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

Interesting. I wouldn’t rule out some physiological difference either. Most elite marathon runners are 5’9” and below, and the theory I’ve seen is that the way weight and surface area scale with height gives a shorter person a slight advantage. Minor differences that are in the noise for the average individual can matter when you’re way out on the Bell curve of billions of people.

 

[Nick Vermeil]

On a related note, a friend of mine who's son is a competitive shooter (got into the Air Force Academy on their rifle team) said that girls are believed to be better shooters than men. He said that the open divisions are dominated by the women and that they split into men/women to give the men a better chance against one another.

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

It’s also their cold blooded will to kill. Probably.

 

[Zow]

I was also surprised that the peak for a chess player is similar to that of a professional athlete and once they hit their 40's they start to decline and are past their prime.

It’s the amount of time you put into it. Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying. At some point you want to do other things.

I'm not sure about hundreds of hours per week* but, yeah, they're doing chess all the time and the brain, which is a muscle, just gets tired. Bein Feingold talks about it all the time.

*Certainly dozens of hours per week and hundreds per year. I could see 2k per year for somebody like Magnus.

 

[massraider]

It’s the amount of time you put into it. Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying. At some point you want to do other things.

You believe the reason players decline as they get older is because they lose interest?

I'm gonna go ahead and wildly guess that brains stop working as well as people age. I have a lot of evidence, none of it chess-based however

 

[kcahnabru]

just defeated the WOMEN's world champion​

please update the title, she did not beat Gukesh

 

[-fish-]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

I seem to remember a scandal involving a male grandmaster posing as a woman for a tournament or tournaments.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

Part of it relates to discrimination. Women were pretty much excluded for tornaments. If the size of your johnson depends on not losing to a woman, I guess it matters.

 

[Jayrod]

The Netflix show, The Queen's Gambit, covers some of this genders in chess stuff as well.

I know people like to act like the US is some sexist/racist country but most of the world is far moreso. I was reading up on the woman that the girl beat in the article (30 yr old Ukranian who was Women's World Champ in 2015-16). She didn't compete in the 2017 World Championships because it was in Iran and they were making all the women wear a hijab.

Chess is an international game (very big in Central Asia/Eastern Europe) and many of those countries simply do not consider women to be equal to men.

 

[Zow]

The Netflix show, The Queen's Gambit, covers some of this genders in chess stuff as well.

I know people like to act like the US is some sexist/racist country but most of the world is far moreso. I was reading up on the woman that the girl beat in the article (30 yr old Ukranian who was Women's World Champ in 2015-16). She didn't compete in the 2017 World Championships because it was in Iran and they were making all the women wear a hijab.

Chess is an international game (very big in Central Asia/Eastern Europe) and many of those countries simply do not consider women to be equal to men.

Yep. This is all my understanding as well. Otherwise, this is a sport/game whereby gender shouldn't matter at all.

 

[Zow]

Today I learned that there are apparently women's and men's champions in chess. Why on earth does chess need to be split by gender?

I seem to remember a scandal involving a male grandmaster posing as a woman for a tournament or tournaments.

Was her name Hansica Niemann?

 

[msudaisy26]

On a related note, a friend of mine who's son is a competitive shooter (got into the Air Force Academy on their rifle team) said that girls are believed to be better shooters than men. He said that the open divisions are dominated by the women and that they split into men/women to give the men a better chance against one another.

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

It’s also their cold blooded will to kill. Probably.

Damn right!

 

[msudaisy26]

It’s the amount of time you put into it. Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying. At some point you want to do other things.

You believe the reason players decline as they get older is because they lose interest?

I'm gonna go ahead and wildly guess that brains stop working as well as people age. I have a lot of evidence, none of it chess-based however

I think this is most of the reason, but the boredom could be a small part of it. I forget where I saw it, but since Steph Curry was at Davidson he has averaged about 500 three point shots a day. That is rough 3.5 million 3's in practice to make roughly 6000 3's in games during college and his NBA career.

There has to be burnout factor with that much repetition to a craft. No matter how much you love it.

 

[Zow]

It’s the amount of time you put into it. Top chess players, like top athletes are spending literally hundreds of hours a week training and studying. At some point you want to do other things.

You believe the reason players decline as they get older is because they lose interest?

I'm gonna go ahead and wildly guess that brains stop working as well as people age. I have a lot of evidence, none of it chess-based however

I think this is most of the reason, but the boredom could be a small part of it. I forget where I saw it, but since Steph Curry was at Davidson he has averaged about 500 three point shots a day. That is rough 3.5 million 3's in practice to make roughly 6000 3's in games during college and his NBA career.

There has to be burnout factor with that much repetition to a craft. No matter how much you love it.

Right. I work in a profession where intense, long-hours are the norm for the most successful in the profession. Burnout is therefore a real thing. At 42, I feel like my brain and my performance is at its peak - which is why I am working the hours I am and taking the intense, high-stakes cases that I am - but I cannot imagine working this hard and this intently after 50 or I am likely putting significantly risk towards my personal health. In my profession, the window for peak performance is probably between 30 and 50 (most of us in our 20s aren't quite work focused yet because we are still dating, involved in other hobbies, etc. and haven't yet settled into a stable family life - ie when life's distractions are reduced and work becomes the primary focus).

Since intense chess study probably starts for the best in the early teens, and since we probably have ~20 years to dedicate the intense hours towards a craft to become one of the best in the world, burnout (which includes boredom) probably happens to the best chess players in their 30s.

 

[Zow]

Also, with the boredom, I think that's a real thing when somebody has hit the peaks in their profession, achieves financial security and there becomes a sense that they can't excel any higher. Tom Brady is frankly a unicorn to me because he didn't need to go to Tampa and win to become the GOAT as he arguably already was - though my theory on Brady is that he was a late bloomer in the sense that it didn't "click" for him (and he didn't put in the hours and significant effort to be the best) until after college and Bledsoe went down.

This issue is very timely and interesting for me because I was having a discussion with my co-counsel (in his 50s) on a significant matter recently where, after we spent a bunch of effort finalizing an important case document, and we were BS'ing for a few minutes, he says to me, "[Woz], why are we working so hard on this? What else is there for us to do?" To put this in perspective, my co-counsel has won major cases, has been on/in the local and national news a bunch of times, is highly regarded, etc. with the lone difference from me that he's financially stable with a beautiful home in a ritzy gated community and he's put most of his kids through college whereas I'm not there yet. After pointing out to him that I am still driven by financial gain, we basically concluded that he either needed to continue to love doing this (which may mean loving to win as an underdog) or become a judge - which is like the equivalent of a pro athlete going to work in a broadcasting booth or becoming a coach.

 

[Jayrod]

Also, with the boredom, I think that's a real thing when somebody has hit the peaks in their profession, achieves financial security and there becomes a sense that they can't excel any higher. Tom Brady is frankly a unicorn to me because he didn't need to go to Tampa and win to become the GOAT as he arguably already was - though my theory on Brady is that he was a late bloomer in the sense that it didn't "click" for him (and he didn't put in the hours and significant effort to be the best) until after college and Bledsoe went down.

This issue is very timely and interesting for me because I was having a discussion with my co-counsel (in his 50s) on a significant matter recently where, after we spent a bunch of effort finalizing an important case document, and we were BS'ing for a few minutes, he says to me, "[Woz], why are we working so hard on this? What else is there for us to do?" To put this in perspective, my co-counsel has won major cases, has been on/in the local and national news a bunch of time, is highly regarded, etc. with the lone difference from me that he's financially stable with a beautiful home in a ritzy gated community and he's put most of his kids through college whereas I'm not there yet. After pointing out to him that I am still driven by financial gain, we basically concluded that he either needed to continue to love doing this (which may mean loving to win as an underdog) or become a judge - which is like the equivalent of a pro athlete going to work in a broadcasting booth or becoming a coach.

That's some cool insight into the profession.

 

[Zow]

Also, with the boredom, I think that's a real thing when somebody has hit the peaks in their profession, achieves financial security and there becomes a sense that they can't excel any higher. Tom Brady is frankly a unicorn to me because he didn't need to go to Tampa and win to become the GOAT as he arguably already was - though my theory on Brady is that he was a late bloomer in the sense that it didn't "click" for him (and he didn't put in the hours and significant effort to be the best) until after college and Bledsoe went down.

This issue is very timely and interesting for me because I was having a discussion with my co-counsel (in his 50s) on a significant matter recently where, after we spent a bunch of effort finalizing an important case document, and we were BS'ing for a few minutes, he says to me, "[Woz], why are we working so hard on this? What else is there for us to do?" To put this in perspective, my co-counsel has won major cases, has been on/in the local and national news a bunch of time, is highly regarded, etc. with the lone difference from me that he's financially stable with a beautiful home in a ritzy gated community and he's put most of his kids through college whereas I'm not there yet. After pointing out to him that I am still driven by financial gain, we basically concluded that he either needed to continue to love doing this (which may mean loving to win as an underdog) or become a judge - which is like the equivalent of a pro athlete going to work in a broadcasting booth or becoming a coach.

That's some cool insight into the profession.

Probably the better practical analogy for a judge is like being a referee. But, in terms of career paths for the more financially successful ones, it's sort of the equivalent to becoming an analyst or coach or something (as it is usually less hours, less pay, less stress).

The public misperception is that becoming a judge is somehow a promotion. Now, getting appointed to the courts of appeals or a federal judgeship is certainly a high honor and could have some significant overall impact, but for most judges they're really just spending their days processing plea agreements, conducting monotonous procedural hearings, and "refereeing "a trial - not the most thought-provoking tasks.

 

[timschochet]

Also, with the boredom, I think that's a real thing when somebody has hit the peaks in their profession, achieves financial security and there becomes a sense that they can't excel any higher. Tom Brady is frankly a unicorn to me because he didn't need to go to Tampa and win to become the GOAT as he arguably already was - though my theory on Brady is that he was a late bloomer in the sense that it didn't "click" for him (and he didn't put in the hours and significant effort to be the best) until after college and Bledsoe went down.

This issue is very timely and interesting for me because I was having a discussion with my co-counsel (in his 50s) on a significant matter recently where, after we spent a bunch of effort finalizing an important case document, and we were BS'ing for a few minutes, he says to me, "[Woz], why are we working so hard on this? What else is there for us to do?" To put this in perspective, my co-counsel has won major cases, has been on/in the local and national news a bunch of times, is highly regarded, etc. with the lone difference from me that he's financially stable with a beautiful home in a ritzy gated community and he's put most of his kids through college whereas I'm not there yet. After pointing out to him that I am still driven by financial gain, we basically concluded that he either needed to continue to love doing this (which may mean loving to win as an underdog) or become a judge - which is like the equivalent of a pro athlete going to work in a broadcasting booth or becoming a coach.

I think when it comes to stardom professions there is also a glory factor, the adoration of the crowds, which a lot of people will never give up. I think that factored into Tom Brady, Muhammad Ali, and many others. Heck look at Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger, they have more money than God and yet they still tour. Why? Because they can’t get enough of the crowd cheering their name.

 

[Dezbelief]

On a related note, a friend of mine who's son is a competitive shooter (got into the Air Force Academy on their rifle team) said that girls are believed to be better shooters than men. He said that the open divisions are dominated by the women and that they split into men/women to give the men a better chance against one another.

I read up on it and there are a couple of theories as to why that is, but nothing scientifically proven as to why. One theory I'd buy into is that the average female competitive shooter is just more trainable/teachable than the males. That they don't grow up shooting and developing bad habits but are taught correct techniques from the beginning.

As a young child first learning to shoot in the boondocks I was taught women were better shots than men because they were better at staying steady. The old country boys thought women were better at controlling their breathing and heartbeat than men.

 

[Zow]

Also, with the boredom, I think that's a real thing when somebody has hit the peaks in their profession, achieves financial security and there becomes a sense that they can't excel any higher. Tom Brady is frankly a unicorn to me because he didn't need to go to Tampa and win to become the GOAT as he arguably already was - though my theory on Brady is that he was a late bloomer in the sense that it didn't "click" for him (and he didn't put in the hours and significant effort to be the best) until after college and Bledsoe went down.

This issue is very timely and interesting for me because I was having a discussion with my co-counsel (in his 50s) on a significant matter recently where, after we spent a bunch of effort finalizing an important case document, and we were BS'ing for a few minutes, he says to me, "[Woz], why are we working so hard on this? What else is there for us to do?" To put this in perspective, my co-counsel has won major cases, has been on/in the local and national news a bunch of times, is highly regarded, etc. with the lone difference from me that he's financially stable with a beautiful home in a ritzy gated community and he's put most of his kids through college whereas I'm not there yet. After pointing out to him that I am still driven by financial gain, we basically concluded that he either needed to continue to love doing this (which may mean loving to win as an underdog) or become a judge - which is like the equivalent of a pro athlete going to work in a broadcasting booth or becoming a coach.

I think when it comes to stardom professions there is also a glory factor, the adoration of the crowds, which a lot of people will never give up. I think that factored into Tom Brady, Muhammad Ali, and many others. Heck look at Paul McCartney and Mick Jagger, they have more money than God and yet they still tour. Why? Because they can’t get enough of the crowd cheering their name.

Good point.

 

[BLOCKED_PUNT]

I would think that a lot of the genderized sports/games comes from cultural norms/tradition but @Jayrod could very well be correct here that those countries see men as superior to women but chess is not like football or baseball or basketball or any other sport where physical difference matters.