Broncos RB. (1 Viewer)

[Coeur de Lion]

Anderson is a rookie, and probably has the same issues as does Ball -- being able to keep up with Manning at the LOS as far as blitz pickup responsibilities.

The vast majority of people continue to completely miss the point here -- it just flat out doesn't matter who is or isn't the best runner. It isn't even about physicality or willingness to mix it up as a blocker. It's pretty much 100% about knowing the playbook inside and out, to the point that the guy in question knows immediately where to go when Manning audibles and changes the play two or three times in five seconds at the LOS based on the shifts in the defensive front during that same five second span. That takes time -- it's a huge amount of information to master, and until the young guys have it down cold, they won't be on the field as much.

 

[monk]

I listened to the Audible Waiver Wire show today and Bloom and Lammey were in agreement that CJ Anderson was the guy to target in this backfield. they said they would rather have him than Knowshon Moreno right now. does this sound like possibly some of the worst fantasy advice given by Bloom ever or am I just crazy? picking up an UDFA rookie who is having problems cutting without pain as he returns from a knee injury and isn't known as a good pass blocker over the starting Denver RB?

I have heaps of respect for these guys, and they have led me right far more often than they have steered me wrong. Cecil and Bloom have a habit of unearthing hidden gems long before most of the fantasy community, so when they make these types of comments, I listen. Yet, to me, Anderson looks like a plodder. He does many things well, but I don't see any special qualities that particularly stand out to me. Anderson was a part-time back for Cal, and predicting he will be anything more than that for the Broncos who have a logjam at the position already seems like a bit of a reach.

Now, with all of that said, consider this, especially if you play in a dynasty league: Is Knowshon going to help you win your championship? It seems highly unlikely that Knowshon will ever be more than just a spoke in the Denver RBBC wheel. If Cecil and Lammey are right, they are suggesting Anderson could be more than that. Food for thought.

He helped a lot of of people (including myself) win championships last season

 

[mphtrilogy]

moreno is the most trusted guy, until he gets hurt, the others will fill in as required...

cecil has never liked him, like he never liked flacco, but the coaches like him and thats what matters here

trust

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Anderson is a rookie, and probably has the same issues as does Ball -- being able to keep up with Manning at the LOS as far as blitz pickup responsibilities.

The vast majority of people continue to completely miss the point here -- it just flat out doesn't matter who is or isn't the best runner. It isn't even about physicality or willingness to mix it up as a blocker. It's pretty much 100% about knowing the playbook inside and out, to the point that the guy in question knows immediately where to go when Manning audibles and changes the play two or three times in five seconds at the LOS based on the shifts in the defensive front during that same five second span. That takes time -- it's a huge amount of information to master, and until the young guys have it down cold, they won't be on the field as much.

Just to be clear... totally agree with this. And I'm looking at this from dynasty perspective so I don't care very much about if Anderson does that this year (possible, but not probable), or next year (still no certainty). It's just my opinion that he's dedicated and pretty good, which usually wins out over dedicated and not very good sooner or later.

 

[socrates]

I listened to the Audible Waiver Wire show today and Bloom and Lammey were in agreement that CJ Anderson was the guy to target in this backfield. they said they would rather have him than Knowshon Moreno right now. does this sound like possibly some of the worst fantasy advice given by Bloom ever or am I just crazy? picking up an UDFA rookie who is having problems cutting without pain as he returns from a knee injury and isn't known as a good pass blocker over the starting Denver RB?

I have heaps of respect for these guys, and they have led me right far more often than they have steered me wrong. Cecil and Bloom have a habit of unearthing hidden gems long before most of the fantasy community, so when they make these types of comments, I listen. Yet, to me, Anderson looks like a plodder. He does many things well, but I don't see any special qualities that particularly stand out to me. Anderson was a part-time back for Cal, and predicting he will be anything more than that for the Broncos who have a logjam at the position already seems like a bit of a reach.

Now, with all of that said, consider this, especially if you play in a dynasty league: Is Knowshon going to help you win your championship? It seems highly unlikely that Knowshon will ever be more than just a spoke in the Denver RBBC wheel. If Cecil and Lammey are right, they are suggesting Anderson could be more than that. Food for thought.

He helped a lot of of people (including myself) win championships last season

Fair point, and even as a platoon back, Moreno does have value.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

The way I see it, Anderson has to have a lot of things break his way in order to be fantasy relevant this season. (1) he has to get healthy (which will take several more weeks, at least), (2) he has to get some carries in an already-crowded backfield, (3) he has to really turn some heads with the limited carries he'll get, (4) he'll have to hope some of the guys ahead of him stink up the joint and get taken out of the rotation. How long will all that take? At least 4 weeks, right (another week or two to get healthy, and another week or two after that with an undefined role while he tries to impress coaches enough to move up)? And are you willing to keep devoting a roster spot to a longshot for that long while waiting to see how it shakes out?
Anyway, if all of that breaks his way, then and only then will C.J. Anderson be a crappy flex play. From there, it'll take at least one, possibly two injuries to get any decent fantasy value. That's a lot of things that have to break right. It's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Denver once had SEVEN running backs suffer season-ending injuries. Injuries and obscene amounts of suck once led to Denver's fullback leading them in rushing yards. Still, that's a lot of ifs and ands, several of which are outside of Anderson's control, and I feel like in all but the deepest of redraft leagues there are probably players with much better odds somewhere else that you could burn that roster spot on.

Pretty good framework here. Where I disagree with you is:

1) he may be healthy as soon as next week

4) the other guys will continue to stink up the joint because they aren't any good

2/3) Anderson is better than the other guys who stink, possibly a lot better, and I'm guessing the coaches have already figured that out. They saw him all camp, he had a strong preseason game, was running with the 2s immediately following the 1st preseason game, and made the active roster as an injured UDFA.

And if he gets an opportunity I expect him to shine given that the situation is so RB friendly. We're not talking about Moreno/Ball/Hillman flailing helpless behind Pittsburgh's line here. This is as awesome a RB situation as it gets. McGahee.

Do I think the above is probable in 2013? No. But it's possible -- far more likely than you're crediting. And regardless, I'd rather be holding the guy who might have RB 1/2 value than holding the guys who will only ever have RB 3/4 value.

This statement isn't nearly as absolute as you're making it out to be.

I'm holding only one Bronco RB in one league - Ball, as my RB3 in a 14-teamer. He's one freak injury to AlMo or Murray away from seeing my starting lineup. There are likely a lot of folks in the SP who don't think much of him - like me - who drafted him as an RB3 or flex play simply because of situation and the value he presented where he fell to.

Which do I think is likely to happen earlier this season - Anderson becoming fantasy-relevant or Murray pulling up lame? (It's a rhetorical question.)

Now, if we're talking about a guy who was a consensus 12th- or 13th-round pick like Moreno, then yeah, he'd be my RB5 and I'd be more interested in upside and breakout potential, even if I have to wait a half-season for it. But a plodder like Moreno isn't someone I would have taken as an RB5 anyway, for precisely that reason.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'd rather be holding the guy who might have RB 1/2 value than holding the guys who will only ever have RB 3/4 value.

This statement isn't nearly as absolute as you're making it out to be.

You're right. I thought before the season that things would like they do today so I'm overly willing to take the current situation as proof I was right. But it's way too early to be that black and white.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

moreno is the most trusted guy, until he gets hurt, the others will fill in as required...

cecil has never liked him, like he never liked flacco, but the coaches like him and thats what matters here

trust

you're right about the trust part, you're wrong about the "never liked Moreno part"

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09spotlight-MoreKn00.php

http://footballguys.com/cdcheck/90.pdf

Both of these were written after Moreno was drafted and before the start of training camp. I once had high hopes for Moreno (as you can read in the above pieces). Those hopes were quickly dashed by injuries and ineffectiveness. He's failed to be the player that many (including myself) thought he would be. I remember watching him early in camp thinking that he was nowhere near the same player in college. The slipping, the losing the shoes, the wasted motion...it all plagued his game early on. Now he's a more mature runner but really lacks juice now after multiple injuries.

CJ Anderson is going to get a shot sometime this year but his problem is the same as Montee Ball's -- he struggles in pass protection. Anderson has more burst than Ball and is the most powerful back on the roster. He's swift and has a little bit of wiggle to his game. In training camp he didn't show well in backs on backers. However, he did look better than Montee in those drills.

Hillman is still a staff favorite and the most explosive back on the roster. Adam Gase is constantly talking about explosive plays from the ground game. We saw in Week 1 how Hillman can eat up yards quickly on a reception in the open field. NONE OF THAT MATTERS if he can't hold onto the rock. He's a wild card at this point.

Moreno is the most trusted, Ball is the red zone guy they HOPE can be more, Hillman is the explosive guy, Anderson is the long shot.

Even Shanahan looks at this situation and thinks "what a mess!"

 

[TheFanatic]

I don't get the explosiveness with Hillman. I thought he looked weak in the playoffs last year and this year I'm not seeing anything all that impressive.... Maybe that's just me...

 

[ShaHBucks]

I listened to the Audible Waiver Wire show today and Bloom and Lammey were in agreement that CJ Anderson was the guy to target in this backfield. they said they would rather have him than Knowshon Moreno right now. does this sound like possibly some of the worst fantasy advice given by Bloom ever or am I just crazy? picking up an UDFA rookie who is having problems cutting without pain as he returns from a knee injury and isn't known as a good pass blocker over the starting Denver RB?

I have heaps of respect for these guys, and they have led me right far more often than they have steered me wrong. Cecil and Bloom have a habit of unearthing hidden gems long before most of the fantasy community, so when they make these types of comments, I listen. Yet, to me, Anderson looks like a plodder. He does many things well, but I don't see any special qualities that particularly stand out to me. Anderson was a part-time back for Cal, and predicting he will be anything more than that for the Broncos who have a logjam at the position already seems like a bit of a reach.

Now, with all of that said, consider this, especially if you play in a dynasty league: Is Knowshon going to help you win your championship? It seems highly unlikely that Knowshon will ever be more than just a spoke in the Denver RBBC wheel. If Cecil and Lammey are right, they are suggesting Anderson could be more than that. Food for thought.

He helped a lot of of people (including myself) win championships last season

Ditto

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Moreno is average

Ball is below average at every facet of the game

Hillman is a scat back

No clue about CJ Anderson, but right now it looks like a mess.

 

[JFS171]

I've rostered CJ in a dynasty league as a pseudo handcuff to my Moreno. I've said for a while now that Moreno can put up PPR value in this role, and when your league is deep enough (16 teams with 2 flex spots per team) he's useful.

If everyone was so on board the Montee Ball train back in July and early August even if he "only got goalline carries" and we think CJ Anderson is the most powerful back on the roster... well then, connect the dots. This team's going to move the ball. They're going to be ahead in a LOT of games, and a lot of times they're going to want to burn the clock. As previously pointed out, those situations can lead to opportunities for a guy like Anderson.

Wouldn't shock me if he impressed when he does get his chance. Ball just doesn't impress me, and Hillman looks like the JV kid called up to varsity because they needed bodies.

C.J. Anderson ‏@CjAndersonRB9 9 Sep

I am getting close I'm ready 2 play almost there did alot of cutting and pass routes getting back in shape lets go

 

[tdhartis]

Moreno is average

Ball is below average at every facet of the game

Hillman is a scat back

I don't necessarily disagree, but think that last season may have exaggerated that perception. By the team and his own account he was unable to maintain his weight and dropped to 175-180lbs last season. All sources show that he was dedicated to this issue over the offseason and is now in the 195-200lbs range depending on source.

While that may not be prototypical starting RB measurables in the NFL, it doesn't eliminate him from the running of being the clear #1 on the Broncos. Daryl Richardson has nearly identical physical and speed measurables, and his are also very close to Jamaal Charles' as well. His situation is different in that the RB's ability to pass protect is weighted more heavily in Denver than probably anywhere else in the league, and that may be his most limiting factor. I think he looks the most promising in other aspects of his game and is certainly the most explosive of the three runners.

I think Ball is the least likely to emerge as the clear #1 on the team this year due to his NFL experience and with pass protection, although I could see him carving out the goal-line role. I actually like Hillman's odds the most of actually taking any semblence of a "lead" role in this backfield. If he becomes sufficient in pass-pro I could see him receiving the bulk of the carries somewhere down the line, with Moreno being relegated to a 3rd down role. However, I think the most likely outcome is that barring injury the Broncos stick with Moreno as the 'lead' of the RBBC since they appear to be shifting towards a 2011-12 Green Bay offense that see the rushing game as a mere afterthought. If that becomes the case then their priorities are (a) pass pro (b) ability to receive out of the backfield - two things Moreno excels at.

TLDR; If Denver cares to have any semblence of a running game, I like Hillman. If not, Moreno (esp. in PPR)

 

[monk]

I don't get the explosiveness with Hillman. I thought he looked weak in the playoffs last year and this year I'm not seeing anything all that impressive.... Maybe that's just me...

Yep explosive is a bad word for Hillman ... quick would be more appropriate.

Explosive gives you the impression that he is quick and powerful ... Powerful he is not.

 

[RushHour]

I don't get the CJ Anderson hype at all, other than wanting to be ahead of the curve on the off chance he hits. This backfield is already a mess for fantasy and to me, all the addition of Anderson does is make it messier.

The issue here is the same as it's been all offseason - there is no doubt that a feature back in this offense would be very valuable, but a feature back simply isn't going to emerge. Anderson may be slightly better than Ball, Hillman and Moreno at some things, and he may be the most well-rounded back they have, but not by so much that those other guys are suddenly going to get negligible touches just because he's healthy. I just don't see how Anderson is going to come in here and grab this job to the point that he's fantasy relevant. Best case seems like he gets a few touches, the other guys get theirs too and it continues to be a fantasy wasteland. Again, if there was a true feature back in this offense, that player would be valuable. But, as it is, we have a bunch of good complimentary type backs in a high octane passing offense. It's still a situation to avoid IMO.

 

[monk]

Moreno is awesome ... you Denver fans aught to be ashamed of yourselves trying to run this guy out of town.

One of the best all-around backs in the NFL (Runs Hard (great Short Yardage guy), Blocks Fantastic (Not just pass blocking) , Catches passes, clutch smart heads up player)

 

[hines]

I listened to the Audible Waiver Wire show today and Bloom and Lammey were in agreement that CJ Anderson was the guy to target in this backfield. they said they would rather have him than Knowshon Moreno right now. does this sound like possibly some of the worst fantasy advice given by Bloom ever or am I just crazy? picking up an UDFA rookie who is having problems cutting without pain as he returns from a knee injury and isn't known as a good pass blocker over the starting Denver RB?

this was absolute fantasy malpractice by those guys to say that CJ Anderson had more value than Moreno, it was absurd at the time and looks bad now. sometimes I think taping the 6 or 7 podcasts per week encourages them to talk and gut-react too much and not analyze enough.

 

[OG_GF]

Woot!

 

[Nucker101]

Moreno is awesome ... you Denver fans aught to be ashamed of yourselves trying to run this guy out of town.

One of the best all-around backs in the NFL (Runs Hard (great Short Yardage guy), Blocks Fantastic (Not just pass blocking) , Catches passes, clutch smart heads up player)

Yup, he seems pretty solid at everything. I know he's playing beside a guy named Peyton Manning, but he really has no obvious weaknesses like Ball/Hillman. Just lacks the wow factor I guess.

 

[identikit]

I listened to the Audible Waiver Wire show today and Bloom and Lammey were in agreement that CJ Anderson was the guy to target in this backfield. they said they would rather have him than Knowshon Moreno right now. does this sound like possibly some of the worst fantasy advice given by Bloom ever or am I just crazy? picking up an UDFA rookie who is having problems cutting without pain as he returns from a knee injury and isn't known as a good pass blocker over the starting Denver RB?

this was absolute fantasy malpractice by those guys to say that CJ Anderson had more value than Moreno, it was absurd at the time and looks bad now. sometimes I think taping the 6 or 7 podcasts per week encourages them to talk and gut-react too much and not analyze enough.

Love the bolded phrase.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Moreno looks like the best Broncos running back, BY FAR.

 

[duaneok66]

Is Hillman playing today??

 

[purestrength]

I hope Knowshon can hold off his annual injury til after the season is over. He looks awesome.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Knowshon doing the robot on the G-Men

 

[monk]

Knowshon doing the robot on the G-Men

You mean Battlebot ... Programmed to catch, run, block and destroy!!!!!!!!

 

[ShaHBucks]

Knowshon doing the robot on the G-Men

You mean Battlebot ... Programmed to catch, run, block and destroy!!!!!!!!

Greg Cosell weighed in on the Denver RB situation, today:

Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno is a mechanical and robotic runner. Rookie Montee Ball will beat him out as soon as he becomes a better pass protector.

FWIW.

 

[duaneok66]

well, is this RB battle over?

 

[Eviloutsider]

Ball getting the end of the game carries.

 

[Buffaloes]

I think you could give every one of Knowshon Moreno's carries to, say, Lance Ball and you'd get the exact same result.

not today, dude.

 

[OG_GF]

Ball getting the end of the game carries.

Why risk injury to their stud RB?

 

[I Love Your Fantasy Team]

But he's just a guy!!!!

 

[monk]

Ball getting the end of the game carries.

He did alot with them 12 for 16 avg 1.3

 

[RushHour]

Moreno is fine for what they are trying to do. He isn't dynamic but he doesn't have to be in this offense - they are still putting up 40+ a game without much emphasis on the run.

The CJ Anderson stuff is completely ridiculous and I hope Bloom/Lammey own up to it.

 

[tsarc888]

1. Moreno

2. Ball

3. Hillman

4. Anderson

 

[rascal]

Moreno is fine for what they are trying to do. He isn't dynamic but he doesn't have to be in this offense - they are still putting up 40+ a game without much emphasis on the run.

The CJ Anderson stuff is completely ridiculous and I hope Bloom/Lammey own up to it.

Yeah, there is no way Moreno is losing that job barring injury.

Lammey is always at least one season early with predicting bronco breakouts.

 

[charlatan]

I've got a question, and this is because I honestly don't know much about the Giants D...

Was Moreno's performance today just a case of him going into beast mode, or is the Giants D bad? I was impressed, but I don't know if I should be.

 

[weebs]

I'm sorry but beast mode and Moreno should never be in the same sentence. He did have a good game but giants defense is missing people to injury and not that great imo.

 

[Short Corner]

Moreno is fine for what they are trying to do. He isn't dynamic but he doesn't have to be in this offense - they are still putting up 40+ a game without much emphasis on the run.

The CJ Anderson stuff is completely ridiculous and I hope Bloom/Lammey own up to it.

They will probably whine that Moreno is bringing Fox the best donuts this week.

 

[charlatan]

I'm sorry but beast mode and Moreno should never be in the same sentence. He did have a good game but giants defense is missing people to injury and not that great imo.

Fair enough. I used beast mode because, in games past, Moreno seemed to go down with the slightest brush with a defensive player. Today was very different. He ran more like a power runner.

 

[Raiderfan32904]

Moreno sell high?

 

[Rove!]

I've got a question, and this is because I honestly don't know much about the Giants D...

Was Moreno's performance today just a case of him going into beast mode, or is the Giants D bad? I was impressed, but I don't know if I should be.

How do you keep DThomas and Decker and Welker and JThomas and Moreno in check?

too many weapons for any defense. Peyton will take what they give and today it was Moreno.

 

[N Zone]

Even with the production, still people in this thread criticize Moreno. Unbelievable. You guys should get your eyes checked and look up some stats.

 

[monk]

Even with the production, still people in this thread criticize Moreno. Unbelievable. You guys should get your eyes checked and look up some stats.

Stats dont tell you how good Moreno was today ... you wont see the blocks that he threw or his patience waiting for blocks, or how hard he ran in every short yardage situation or his heads up fumble recovery. His all around game was an A+ today

 

[ShaHBucks]

Moreno sell high?

OAK-PHI-DAL-JAC-IND-WAS coming up before the week 9 bye. Then 2 div games each with SD and KC after the bye. Ride the wave right now in redraft until you see reason to believe in Ball. He likely didn't cost you anything anyway.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Moreno is fine for what they are trying to do. He isn't dynamic but he doesn't have to be in this offense - they are still putting up 40+ a game without much emphasis on the run.

The CJ Anderson stuff is completely ridiculous and I hope Bloom/Lammey own up to it.

They will probably whine that Moreno is bringing Fox the best donuts this week.

I took over a rebuild early this year just for fun. 16 teams deep and made this trade with Bloom. He's already sitting on AP/TRich in a start 1-2 and his team is amazing considering the league structure, but I knew it wouldn't cost much to be wrong. I'm sure I couldn't get Qizz Rodgers for the same price. Year 2014 Round 4 Draft Pick;Year 2014 Round 5 Draft Pick

Bloom gave up Moreno, Knowshon DEN RB

Fri May 31 5:09:51 a.m. ET 2013

 

[Eminence]

Wow, Moreno and Orange Julius were great pickups for my Dynasty team this off season.

 

[hines]

he traded Moreno, who was a top 10 back down the stretch last year, for a 4th and 5th round pick in a dynasty league? I enjoy Bloom's enthusiasm but man that is pretty indefensible.

 

[ShaHBucks]

he traded Moreno, who was a top 10 back down the stretch last year, for a 4th and 5th round pick in a dynasty league? I enjoy Bloom's enthusiasm but man that is pretty indefensible.

I wouldn't say that. Den had just used a 2nd on a Ball. Hillman was the unquestioned starter, hell he is still #1 on the depth chart last I checked. I was just rolling the dice. And me knowing he isn't really a fan of his isn't fair either.

 

[Nucker101]

Moreno is fine for what they are trying to do. He isn't dynamic but he doesn't have to be in this offense - they are still putting up 40+ a game without much emphasis on the run.

The CJ Anderson stuff is completely ridiculous and I hope Bloom/Lammey own up to it.

They will probably whine that Moreno is bringing Fox the best donuts this week.

I took over a rebuild early this year just for fun. 16 teams deep and made this trade with Bloom. He's already sitting on AP/TRich in a start 1-2 and his team is amazing considering the league structure, but I knew it wouldn't cost much to be wrong. I'm sure I couldn't get Qizz Rodgers for the same price.Year 2014 Round 4 Draft Pick;Year 2014 Round 5 Draft Pick

Bloom gave up Moreno, Knowshon DEN RB

Fri May 31 5:09:51 a.m. ET 2013

Damn. Nice move.

I agree with the others in this thread that some of the FBG's sometimes get a little too caught up in their own hype about deep sleepers and such. I mean if it was true that they said that they'd rather own C.J. Anderson over Knowshon Moreno, that's pretty ridiculous.

 

[hines]

he traded Moreno, who was a top 10 back down the stretch last year, for a 4th and 5th round pick in a dynasty league? I enjoy Bloom's enthusiasm but man that is pretty indefensible.

I wouldn't say that. Den had just used a 2nd on a Ball. Hillman was the unquestioned starter, hell he is still #1 on the depth chart last I checked. I was just rolling the dice. And me knowing he isn't really a fan of his isn't fair either.

what kind of players get picked in the 4th/5th of your league? maybe I'm underrating what kind of talent gets there. Hillman was never the unquestioned starter, Moreno ended the year dominating the backfield that Hillman was a part of and never did anyone involved with Denver say anything about Moreno not getting the ball. all we heard was all 3 would get it