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Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
TheFanatic
Footballguy
For those that saw the end of the game (sadly my oldest is in Kindergarten now and I don't get to stay up and finish watching games anymore), did they keep passing at the end? It was a blow out. Or did they hand off a ton? I haven't dug through the play by play yet...
Shutout
Footballguy
I think most of us knew going into last night that this morning's news was going to be like this: THe Broncos were going to get up big and so we were going to see a lot of carries amongst the backs late in the game and that would lead to specualtion from people looking at the stats and thinking suddenly "hey, they gave Hillman a chance,etc". THat is really not the case. This was simply a case of "Don't need 'em. let's give some guys some garbage run." I am only disappointed that CJ Anderson wasn't active. I would have loved to have seen him get 8-10 4th quarter carries.
IMO, nothing has changed. THe way the game unfolded dictated what we saw but in a competitive game, Moreno is clearly the play. Once again, he was key in picking up the blocks on a few of the TD plays. They start him, they play him, they have him out there when its crunch time...what is there really to argue here aside from optimistic Ball and Hillman owners? Let's be realistic.
With that being said, I'm not sure having Moreno is as much a benefit as we would like. Unless he scores a TD, he's at a pretty big risk of being fairly uneventful to your fantasy team. There are just too many mouths to feed and no team seems to be able to take away the passing game from Manning. The addition of Welker and J. Thomas literally have doubled Manning's effectiveness and opportunities.
This is beginning to remind me of the old adage that "if you say you have two QBs, you have none." The broncos have three RBs so they effectively have none for fantasy. Just like somewhere Decker or Thomas or Welker will have a disappointing day by the standards we have quickly grown to expect, the Rbs will too. One gets a cheap TD. One gets a chunk of yardage, one gets a few passes. None get it all to end up with a nice fat statline.
IMO, nothing has changed. THe way the game unfolded dictated what we saw but in a competitive game, Moreno is clearly the play. Once again, he was key in picking up the blocks on a few of the TD plays. They start him, they play him, they have him out there when its crunch time...what is there really to argue here aside from optimistic Ball and Hillman owners? Let's be realistic.
With that being said, I'm not sure having Moreno is as much a benefit as we would like. Unless he scores a TD, he's at a pretty big risk of being fairly uneventful to your fantasy team. There are just too many mouths to feed and no team seems to be able to take away the passing game from Manning. The addition of Welker and J. Thomas literally have doubled Manning's effectiveness and opportunities.
This is beginning to remind me of the old adage that "if you say you have two QBs, you have none." The broncos have three RBs so they effectively have none for fantasy. Just like somewhere Decker or Thomas or Welker will have a disappointing day by the standards we have quickly grown to expect, the Rbs will too. One gets a cheap TD. One gets a chunk of yardage, one gets a few passes. None get it all to end up with a nice fat statline.
I posted this in the game thread ... There was definitely something going on with Moreno. Look at the replay of the JT TD ... Moreno is limping as he is running and he jumps up to congratulate JT and lands gingerly ...you could see something was bothering him. Also noticed between a couple of plays he was away from the huddle looking towards the sideline and something appeared to be bothering him. He pulled himself from the game at one point and I don't think he carried much after that.
It is a bit funny how much we're driven by the recency effect.
Week 1: Moreno gets the most snaps/touches, but none of the backs distinguish themselves. Moreno owners assume he's the guy to own, but not necessarily start.
Week 2: Ball fumbles a goal-line touch. Hillman does nothing. Moreno busts off two long TDs and gets 100+ YFS. So now we all assume he's a legit RB2 (someone in one of my leagues snagged AJ Green for him yesterday afternoon, a few hours before kickoff).
Week 3: Moreno, who may or may not have gotten hurt, does very little. Hillman and Ball have a much higher YPC, but Hillman gets to punch in a TD and Ball fumbles again. Total touches are about even. So now we're back to writing off the backfield as an unstartable mess.
I'm not saying any of those theories are wrong. It's just funny how certain everyone seems to be that their most recent impression is correct, even if it contradicts what we believed two days ago.
(For the record, I still think Moreno is the guy to own, but I grabbed Hillman just in case, and will probably be sitting both of them for Bernard until there's more clarity.)
Week 1: Moreno gets the most snaps/touches, but none of the backs distinguish themselves. Moreno owners assume he's the guy to own, but not necessarily start.
Week 2: Ball fumbles a goal-line touch. Hillman does nothing. Moreno busts off two long TDs and gets 100+ YFS. So now we all assume he's a legit RB2 (someone in one of my leagues snagged AJ Green for him yesterday afternoon, a few hours before kickoff).
Week 3: Moreno, who may or may not have gotten hurt, does very little. Hillman and Ball have a much higher YPC, but Hillman gets to punch in a TD and Ball fumbles again. Total touches are about even. So now we're back to writing off the backfield as an unstartable mess.
I'm not saying any of those theories are wrong. It's just funny how certain everyone seems to be that their most recent impression is correct, even if it contradicts what we believed two days ago.
(For the record, I still think Moreno is the guy to own, but I grabbed Hillman just in case, and will probably be sitting both of them for Bernard until there's more clarity.)
Mistabishi
Footballguy
Fun stuff on rock, paper, scissors. I'm glad Hillman schooled those two on it last night.
Still funny to me how Cecil sensed some tool was in here talking crap about him last night. I can picture Cecil in front of the tube when RH scored thinking "let me guess, some tool is calling me out right now about my connections" then sure enough he checks in and they had. Sorry Cecil, 99% of us love you.
Still funny to me how Cecil sensed some tool was in here talking crap about him last night. I can picture Cecil in front of the tube when RH scored thinking "let me guess, some tool is calling me out right now about my connections" then sure enough he checks in and they had. Sorry Cecil, 99% of us love you.
Moreno had his typical very good all around game
Hillman did well in garbage time
As did Ball until he fumbled
Mistabishi
Footballguy
Moreno's only mistake I recall was that dropped screen pass early on but his blocking was solid and he hit the holes that were in front of him just fine.
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
how do you play rock, paper, scissors with 3 dudes?
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You're surprised posters on a football forum are analyzing a football situation?RushHour said:
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
I believe in last week's podcast cecil was emphatic in saying DROP HILLMAN!
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Ronnie Hillman said he got the Broncos fourth-quarter goal-line carry on Monday night because he won a game of rock, paper, scissors.
Early in the final frame, Hillman broke off a 19-yard run to the 1-yard line. The Broncos proceeded to take a timeout. During that break in the action, Hillman says he took on Knowshon Moreno and Montee Ball in rock, paper, scissors to see who would get the touchdown. Hillman chose rock, while Ball and Moreno went with scissors. "We were just messing around on the sideline," Hillman said. "Just something to do. Have fun. ... Luckily I won, so it all worked out."
LOL
Early in the final frame, Hillman broke off a 19-yard run to the 1-yard line. The Broncos proceeded to take a timeout. During that break in the action, Hillman says he took on Knowshon Moreno and Montee Ball in rock, paper, scissors to see who would get the touchdown. Hillman chose rock, while Ball and Moreno went with scissors. "We were just messing around on the sideline," Hillman said. "Just something to do. Have fun. ... Luckily I won, so it all worked out."
LOL
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
They are probably playing Rock-paper-scissors-Lizard-Spock.
It's very simple.
Scissors cuts paper,
paper covers rock,
rock crushes lizard,
lizard poisons Spock,
Spock smashes scissors,
scissors decapitates lizard,
lizard eats paper,
paper disproves Spock,
Spock vaporizes rock,
and—as it always has—rock crushes scissors
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ShaHBucks
Footballguy
Big Bang Theory quote?
Rove!
Footballguy
r p s tieCan't wrap your head around this one?
r p p dual
r p r 2
r r s dual
r r p 3
r r r tie
r s s 1
r s p tie
r s r dual
etc
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unckeyherb
Footballguy
no.ponchsox said:
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Just got done with Fox press conference. He said Ronnie was going back into the game after he got it to the 1-yard line. Said it had nothing to do with rock, paper, scissors.
vesihiisi
Footballguy
The football analogy of "carrying the rock" does make a lot of sense. Moreno's the vet on the squad, and he's probably no stranger to the subtle intricacies of high level RPS strategy. I'd speculate that he thought it was too obvious of a pun to toss rock, so he was likely two steps ahead of the curve. If there's one thing you want to avoid when the RPS matters most* it's thinking two steps ahead.
You choose scissor (the most aggressive and phallic of the three objects) if you're trying too hard to overcompensate for inner weakness, insecurity, or an Oedipal complex.
Paper, of course, is the ultimate power move, a sign of true confidence. If you know your oppenents well enough, though, you have to modify this approach.
There's certainly no shame in being a Rock Thrower, especially if the situation arises. Ronnie has been hanging out with these guys a long time, he knew what he was doing.
*source: I was my company''s 2010 and 2012 RPS champion. Do not ask me about 2011.
Shutout
Footballguy
They say alzheimer's affects short-term memory. Get checked. It was just 8 days ago that Moreno busted 2 TDs and Hillman did what? Yeah...
Its a fluid situaiton until an injury occurs and no measure of rookie lust or "want to" by the people still mad about picking Hillman last year is going to change that in real life. It just simply is not going to come to be that Hillman is in over Moreno in real life until something changes.
This thread really needs shut down. Its like the shell game. OOH, I see it. No, wait..It moved! Hey, how'd you do that??
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Did you or anyone hit him with a follow up question why there are publish reports to the indicating otherwise? Hillman make this up?
socrates
Footballguy
Cecil Lammey
Footballguy
Most that I talked to, including Lindsay Jones from USA Today, believe Hillman was just messing around with this comment. It's like they were messing around between themselves on the sidelines.
Fox's quote:
[SIZE=10.5pt]On the running backs playing Rock, Paper, Scissors[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]“Ronnie Hillman was going back in the game. That wasn’t official. Ronnie was running the ball. We decide that, not them.”[/SIZE]
socrates
Footballguy
That is easy for Fox to say now that he is not on the business end of a scissor-crushing rock.
Hillman said it was all for fun. Hillman earned the right to get that carry by bringing the team to the goalline. Kudos to Hillman for delivering when his number was called, but you cannot read much into this RBBC. Moreno will continue to get the most meaningful carries for the foreseeable future, Ball still needs to earn the coaching staff's confidence, and Hillman made a step in the right direction this week. Heck, next week it may be Montee Ball's week. I am staying away from this mess for now, but I still believe Hillman is the guy with the most exciting upside.
Moreno did a good job and he's contributing as required. This is a pass first offense and the Raiders have a decent defense.
Hillman did a good job as well, but I can't believe how small this guy is. He's listed at 5' 9" 200, but looked like a little kid standing next to Manning. I realize Manning is a monster, but Ball and Moreno look like huge dudes.
Ball fumbled again. When you've got the game won it doesn't hurt as much, but this is a trend. Before Edgerrin James the fantasy world would never draft a rookie RB, but James changed that. I think most rookie RB's need some time to develop and it's how I see Ball for the rest of the season... a WIP.
Bottom line is none of these RB's are consistent FF studs. They may be good flex plays sometimes, but it'll probably be a coin flip on any given Sunday. If you have to place your bets for the rest of the year, Moreno is the clear cut choice because he protects Manning the best.
purestrength
Footballguy
Still wondering if Moreno was dinged up or not. I've read that some saw him limping a little. Will be watching injury reports closely this week.
here is video of the rock paper scissors
http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap2000000250270/Rock-paper-scissors-winner-gets-TD
doesn't Hillman lose? 1st one out?
the rookie looks shaky and indecisive.. not looking good longterm for FF
http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap2000000250270/Rock-paper-scissors-winner-gets-TD
doesn't Hillman lose? 1st one out?
the rookie looks shaky and indecisive.. not looking good longterm for FF
Why would he have been participating in paper-rock-scissors for the goal line carry if he'd gotten hurt? I'm pretty sure he was just getting rested.
wormburner
Footballguy
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ahartig
Footballguy
Yup, Moreno throws down paper first and Hillman had rock.... the video makes it look like Moreno won out.... sounds like Fox was gonna play Hillman no matter what.here is video of the rock paper scissors
http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/0ap2000000250270/Rock-paper-scissors-winner-gets-TD
doesn't Hillman lose? 1st one out?
the rookie looks shaky and indecisive.. not looking good longterm for FF
Buffaloes
Footballguy
where are you getting this? haven't seen any indication that Moreno was injured or any mention of it outside of this thread since the game
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bostonfred
Footballguy
My take on this hasn't changed substantially. Ball hasn't gotten the touchdowns I expected for him, and the fumbles hurt, but he's shown week over week improvement, and the Broncos still seem to want him to be the guy. Moreno remains the front line guy in the committee for now, but has low upside. Hillman has some flier potential, but his upside is also lower than Ball's (although he did score on a goal line carry, which is encouraging for his stock). For right now, Moreno still seems to have starting rb value, but somewhere in the week 5-8 range, I think Ball has a great chance to take over and be a legit RB1 and a stud down the stretch. The window of opportunity to acquire him would be closing right now, but that fumble may have given you another week or two to pry him away from his owners.
No to the bolded. The only plays Denver ran after Ball's fumble were kneel downs. Ball was not on the field for them- IIRC, Moreno was.
With that said, Denver didn't hesitate to go back to Ball after his fumble against New York. Ball also has no history of fumbles in college (924 touches with just two fumbles in his college career), and he didn't really struggle with ball security during camps or preseason. I would suspect that Denver views the two fumbles as flukes more than meaningful predictors.
Edit: Just re-watched it. Hillman was on the field for the kneel downs. For whatever that's worth.
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Except...If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Protecting Peyton is going to remain the top priority.
John Fox has been kryptonite for young RBs.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Watch the J.Thomas 13 yard TD
Keep an eye on Moreno as he is running and we he jumps and lands during the TD celebration
http://www.nfl.com/scores/2013/REG3
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JFS171
Footballguy
Just looks like he lands weird to me - not like he got hurt. I think it was just a game they were comfortably in control of, so there was no reason to play Moreno when they're trying to develop the other two guys. It's a full-blown committee. While I'm a believer in Moreno having the most value, there will be games like this.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
Moreno with a rock, paper, scissors TD celebration dance. Awesome.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I'm wondering the same thing. He is really just not part of the plan at all right now and barring injury, I just don't see that changing.
