daveR
Footballguy
You're right. We do things differently. You're also right that I prefer to take things at face value rather than concoct conspiracy theories without concrete evidence. So, yeah, you're right.
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Browns Next Head Coach - How Will They Do? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
MAC_32
Footballguy
Never mind - I've been wrong about stating you need verifiable facts to support an opinion. After going through the team thread I forgot that you blamed the front office for everything that went wrong before 2018. Your heels aren't dug in the quicksand because of the need for facts. They're dug in because You Jackson was blameless for everything that went wrong in 2016 and 2017. You're gonna enjoy his trip through the BSPN circus today.
Conan Troutman
Footballguy
Hard to tell how good Dorsey is at finding coaches sind his track record is rather short (albeit good), so picking a number feels really arbitrary. But since we're already at it, have an 8. The Browns should be a very attractive job with all that young talent and Dorsey now has a head start in the coaching search on everybody else. That said, the reported candidates look promising, but are without NFL HC experience and therefore impossible to grade with a 9 or 10 on a confidence scale. I guess we'll see if another big name like Reid will come up (McCarthy would make all the sense in the world if he gets the boot in Green Bay), but for now there are no surefire names attached to the Browns coaching search.
daveR
Footballguy
I was agreeing with you, not arguing. On the other hand, we know that Haley ran the offense autonomously, and GW ran the defense, and Sashi ran the draft. Draw your own conclusions...
Peak
Footballguy
You're mixing regimes there bud....but let's go with it. If what have listed above is accurate, what did Hue do?
MAC_32
Footballguy
daveR
Footballguy
I think I said, in the other thread, that I am not a supporter of the coach, per se. IIRC, I said the thing I liked about him was his devotion to working hard. Beyond that, I don't remember anything. I have never been awestruck or "impressed" (which I WOULD like to be). Neither have I seen anything that makes me despise him, but I DO think it's disingenuous to blame him (or anybody else) for things over which he had no control. The structure that kept his hands off the offense seems like a poor decision by Haslam, though I remember lots of people clamoring for it.
Anyways, back to the question at hand. Yes, I agree with you that my style of evaluation hinges on verifiable facts and accountability. And, no, I'm not a HJ fan.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't think there is any possible way you can connect those two comments, but go ahead and try.
steelers1080
Footballguy
If they manage to hire Lincoln or Jim Harbaugh, they have a shot to be very good for 3-4 years. Not sure that they can sustain greatness (see Harbaugh/49ers) but I think with the current talent on the team and the large cap room, they could have a very good team for a handful of years.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Can we give negative numbers?ffldrew said:
Peak
Footballguy
I can also find you multiple quotes by HJ saying he was going to watch the film. It doesn't mean he did anything about what he saw, if he even watched anything.
Hue talked about doing a lot of things, but there was no substantial proof anywhere. If he believed in hard work, then he would also have to believe in discipline, right? You can't work hard unless you are disciplined, you have a routine and you work to master said routine. These things can't be done flippantly. So if hard work = discipline, how do you explain all of the penalties this team accumulated under Hue's regime? Penalties are due to undisciplined players constantly making mistakes. The Browns are one of the most penalized teams in the NFL. If Hue had his team working hard, because he believed in doing just that, why was his team consistently penalized? We're talking Holds, False Starts, Pass Interference, Unsportsmanlike Conduct...all of these have been called on this team consistently during Hue's term. What does that tell you about Hue's belief in working hard? And don't get me started on Hue giving his good performers days off during Training Camp. I think Haley and Landry said it best on Hard Knocks. How are you supposed to learn and master your craft if you're not on the field?
Peak
Footballguy
But Hue just told the world via MKC and ESPN that he hired Haley. Why would Haley have to go to Dorsey to confirm complete control? If Hue hired Haley, why wouldn't he be able to fire him by himself? I'm flabbergasted!
trader jake
Footballguy
Mike McCarthy - Like Andy Reid in Philly, it's just time for a new voice in Green Bay. Wouldn't be surprised at all if he's let go by the Packers and eventually ends up with the Browns. Or even traded to Cleveland for a pick (considering the close relationships of late between the two franchises).
Connection to GM Dorsey and other from the office members from time in Green Bay.
Not cheap, but Haslem knows he can't go cheap with the next hire.
Would bring stability and respect to the Factory of Sadness routine.
Track record with quarterbacks.
Connection to GM Dorsey and other from the office members from time in Green Bay.
Not cheap, but Haslem knows he can't go cheap with the next hire.
Would bring stability and respect to the Factory of Sadness routine.
Track record with quarterbacks.
amnesiac
beer is good
i think i’m on board with this if they can make it happen.
i don’t want a college coach.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Peak
Footballguy
I disagree with this statement. I think the time is ripe for a change in the AFC North. Pittsburgh is on a decline, and there is no QB on the roster wants Ben retires. Balt has a solid defense, but the offense has been lacking quite a bit as of recent. The Bengals are very bi-polar. One week they look like world-beaters, the next they look like thy forgot how to play the game. I don't think they sustain the winning path they are on, simply because they are not used to it. Put all that together with the opportunity to lead a young, up and coming team that already has a solid foundation (EDGE, CB, and QB), and it is a very appealing position. The AFC North is out there for the taking, if the right HC can come in and seize it.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Does anyone have names of potential coaches who will be available to the Browns to hire for next season?
The rumors here in Oklahoma were Bob Stoops and Lincoln Riley. Stoops has lost some steam. Riley is still full bore. Even though he said he was not interested, it is still a huge rumor.
The Dallas Morning News ran with it, Baker spoke of how he'd succeed in the NFL, Barry Switzer even came out with his opinion. USAToday wrote a piece on it, so...for a supposed non-true rumor, there is a whole lotta meat to the bone.
The Dallas Morning News ran with it, Baker spoke of how he'd succeed in the NFL, Barry Switzer even came out with his opinion. USAToday wrote a piece on it, so...for a supposed non-true rumor, there is a whole lotta meat to the bone.
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Looks to be a very attractive position. Presumably, the ownership has passed the torch to Dorsey, by (reportedly) giving him final say in the Hue/Haley firing. Assuming that holds through the hiring process, I'll say 7-8. If it's not in Dorsey's hands that number drops significantly for me.
jtp1982
Footballguy
I think the lack of healthy boundaries and clearly defined roles between owner-GM-HC is the real issue in Cleveland moving forward. Unless they get a real dominant personality in there that suggests they are willing to actually give a guy the reigns doesn’t matter who the coach is.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Who wants to work for the Browns' organization and owner who is higher than a 3 or a 4? Their problem is that their owner has shown his hand enough that good coaches with good judgment are not interested in working there...
I understand some people think that but I'd answer that question with another question. Where would you rate John Dorsey on the scale of 1-10 for NFL Executives?
Football Jones
Footballguy
Riley would be the top hire (by a long shot), IMO. Riley's offense will work in the NFL & he's so smart & even-keeled. Really impressive guy & he's only 37.
Some nice potential hires this offseason. More than there typically is.
Some nice potential hires this offseason. More than there typically is.
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kittenmittens
Footballguy
Tecumseh
Footballguy
Bruce Arians says the Browns are the only team he would come out of retirement to coach. They need to sign him yesterday. Keep Kitchens (IIRC, he's from the Arians coaching tree) and put GW back to DC. The only other move they need to make is to launch the Special Teams coach into the sun.
Peak
Footballguy
While I like the idea, I'm not sure he's the long-term solution. He would become the oldest active NFL coach if he took on that mantle. Baker is just starting his career. How long would Arians be able to work with him? 4 years maybe, until he retires for good? I also read the interview transcript, and it sounds more like he'd rather take on an OC role if Pagano was the HC. That to me is something I don't want.
I would rather see a younger HC that can grow with Baker and be the foundation for at least a decade. I'm tired of the coaching carousel in CLE. I'd look at John Harbaugh or Flip.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
The new coach will win more than Hue Jackson because it would be almost impossible not to.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm open minded with Arians with one giant caveat - a coach-in-waiting is paired with him. Not saying it has to be Kitchens, but he'd be a natural fit. It isn't Pagano though. Wouldn't be up-in-arms about him as a DC, but he showed more than enough in Indy that he's not HC material.
Main question with Harbaugh is who's the OC to come with him. An interesting one and that's a good hire. If not though...
Flip's no different than the pile of other young guys we'll hear about over the next 2 months. An exciting name and reason for optimism, but a total unknown wrt expectations. HC is just a different ball game.
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