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BROWNS THREAD 2009 4 GAME WIN STREAK! (1 Viewer)

Below is an army of 'if scenarios'

I hope one of but not both Curry and Crabtree are taken before us so we can take the other one, if both fall us being the Browns will choose the wrong one. If we take Curry I think we take a Robiskie type at pick 36 and hope we trade DA for a 3rd rounder and take Jarrett Dillard there.

If we take Orakpo (hopefully because Crabtree and Curry are unavailable and we were unable to trade down, otherwise I'll be pissed) or are able to trade down, I think we take the same route at WR as we would if we took Curry.
i keep reading how great Curry is, but doesn't he boil down to basically an inside LB in the 3-4? not that he wouldn't be useful, but is that a spot that they should spend a 1.5 pick and top five money? doesn't taking a WR at that spot scare you at all?

i can't wait till this draft is over, it's making my head hurt. i think i'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that they can trade down for more picks.
I think Curry would play on the outside, not inside.I think Curry and Crabtree are the two best players in this draft, I'd rather us spend top 5 money on the best players than on positions that are considered more premium positions.

I'm not much of a believer in the theory that taking a first round WR is risky. It can be risky if you're reckless and take a guy like Ginn, Williamson, Matt Jones, etc. that's selected there more for what they can be rather than what they are. However, if you take a guy for what they are and what they can be (Calvin, Fitz, Andre Johnson, etc.) I am not concerned about them. I'm not saying Crabtree will be like those three, but he certainly can be, and I believe his floor is quite high too.

 
3 Anderson, Derek QB 6-6 230 06/15/1983 4 Oregon State 13 Bartel, Richard QB 6-3 233 02/03/1983 1 Tarleton State 10 Quinn, Brady QB 6-3 235 10/27/1984 2 Notre Dame
so this is what their site is showing at QB right now.suppose they trade DA or Quinn. now what? who is left on the FA scrap heap?are they seriously considering Sanchez? and a serious question here, why has he been rising up the draft boards over the last two weeks?
I don't think they're seriously considering Sanchez, at least I hope not. I don't think he's rising up boards, I think it's posturizing from teams trying to play with his true value. Where he's taken on draft day may not even answer that question - that's where he could have been valued...or a team may have been duped.
good answer. that's the other part that's really confusing, is when all these GMs try to get into each other's heads. that's why i've resisted so long in trying to figure out what the Browns are going to do, but it's just so close now and they really can go in a lot of different diretions this year.two years ago was relatively boring, with the two main options Thomas and Quinn, but this year it could be any of 3-5 different guys.
 
maybe it's just Braylon backlash, but one thing i've always liked reading on WR scouting reports is that they can catch the football. so at least Crabtree seems to have that going for him if they take him.

 
If we were one player away (i.e. the Giants), then by all means grab Crabtree. But taking a receiver at the #5 spot for this team is laughable. How many times per game does a receiver even touch the ball? 5 on average? 10-12 on the very high end? They have the chance to grab Orakpo, Raji, Curry, or one of the top 2 OT's for the right side, who could all be impact players. Taking a receiver here puts us in the same spot in 4 years when his rookie deal is expiring.

 
If we were one player away (i.e. the Giants), then by all means grab Crabtree. But taking a receiver at the #5 spot for this team is laughable. How many times per game does a receiver even touch the ball? 5 on average? 10-12 on the very high end? They have the chance to grab Orakpo, Raji, Curry, or one of the top 2 OT's for the right side, who could all be impact players. Taking a receiver here puts us in the same spot in 4 years when his rookie deal is expiring.
:thumbup: Agree all around. Seriously, what's the point of Crabtree if the D won't be able to make a decent run @ the playoffs anytime soon. Then in 4 years (ala Brayon), the dude walks or commands franchise tag $. I guess I can see it IF he's essentially a lock to evolve into a AJ, Fitz, Wayne type of guy - but I would really prefer the spend most if not all picks on the D side of the ball - w/ a solid RB prospect and maybe someone like Robiske mixed in.My 'out of the box' idea is scrap the 3-4, take Raji, pair him up w/ Rodgers in the middle - and build from the up-front inside out. They could be like the Williams' in MN. A solid D line makes the rest of the D look A LOT better when they're controlling the LoS. I know it's not going to happen, but whoever the take better not bust - or we can add a few years to this rebuild.
 
Tecumseh said:
If we were one player away (i.e. the Giants), then by all means grab Crabtree. But taking a receiver at the #5 spot for this team is laughable. How many times per game does a receiver even touch the ball? 5 on average? 10-12 on the very high end? They have the chance to grab Orakpo, Raji, Curry, or one of the top 2 OT's for the right side, who could all be impact players. Taking a receiver here puts us in the same spot in 4 years when his rookie deal is expiring.
If you want a quality tackle for the right side Jamon Meredith waits in round 2, I have a feeling we're going to take some run blocking OL sometime in round 2, whether it be Meredith, Duke, or Wood. Jason Smith and Monroe are more pass blockers than run blockers, I don't like the idea of taking either of them.I've come full circle on us drafting Crabtree, basically because I believe he will be an elite level WR. I'd be incredibly torn if we could have Curry too, but if Curry's gone and Crabtree's still there I think he'd be a better pick than Raji or Orakpo.
 
All i can say is thank God...

Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns passing on Michael Crabtree

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter

Wednesday April 22, 2009, 10:41 AM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns have all but crossed off Michael Crabtree as a candidate for the No. 5 overall pick, said a source.

The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia.

* No, Derek Anderson did not have surgery on his left knee in the offseason. So why wouldn't Browns GM George Kokinis just admit it in his pre-draft press conference this week? It's a mandate from Mangini to not even acknowledge questions about surgeries. Mangini jumped all over Kokinis when Kokinis let it slip in an interview prior to the NFL combine in February that running back Jamal Lewis had routine arthroscopic surgery to "clean up" an ankle. Mangini does not even intend to speak the letters MRI if a player, in fact, has had the routine exam.

* Crabtree might not even be the first receiver taken in the draft. Seattle (fourth) and Cincinnati (sixth) are expected to fill greater needs on the offensive line. Oakland (seventh) is enamored with the speed of Missouri's Jeremy Maclin. Jacksonville (eighth) has been burned so many times by first-round receivers, they are gunshy to take another. It's quite possible that Alabama tackle Andre Smith, who turned off so many coaches at the NFL combine, will be taken ahead of Crabtree.

* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.

* New Orleans sees Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety and is expected to take him at No. 14.

* The first USC linebacker will go to Houston at No. 15. But which one? Either Brian Cushing or Clay Matthews, but not Rey Maualuga.
Link
 
All i can say is thank God...

Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns passing on Michael Crabtree

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter

Wednesday April 22, 2009, 10:41 AM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns have all but crossed off Michael Crabtree as a candidate for the No. 5 overall pick, said a source.

The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia.

* No, Derek Anderson did not have surgery on his left knee in the offseason. So why wouldn't Browns GM George Kokinis just admit it in his pre-draft press conference this week? It's a mandate from Mangini to not even acknowledge questions about surgeries. Mangini jumped all over Kokinis when Kokinis let it slip in an interview prior to the NFL combine in February that running back Jamal Lewis had routine arthroscopic surgery to "clean up" an ankle. Mangini does not even intend to speak the letters MRI if a player, in fact, has had the routine exam.

* Crabtree might not even be the first receiver taken in the draft. Seattle (fourth) and Cincinnati (sixth) are expected to fill greater needs on the offensive line. Oakland (seventh) is enamored with the speed of Missouri's Jeremy Maclin. Jacksonville (eighth) has been burned so many times by first-round receivers, they are gunshy to take another. It's quite possible that Alabama tackle Andre Smith, who turned off so many coaches at the NFL combine, will be taken ahead of Crabtree.

* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.

* New Orleans sees Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety and is expected to take him at No. 14.

* The first USC linebacker will go to Houston at No. 15. But which one? Either Brian Cushing or Clay Matthews, but not Rey Maualuga.
Link
You don't believe this do ya? Mangini's notoriously tightlipped, now all of a sudden we have a detailed report of Crab's visit. I'm throwing the BS flag on this. Somebody's a horrible liar, they couldn't come up with something better than "not nice"
 
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thecardiackid said:
My 'out of the box' idea is scrap the 3-4, take Raji, pair him up w/ Rodgers in the middle - and build from the up-front inside out. They could be like the Williams' in MN. A solid D line makes the rest of the D look A LOT better when they're controlling the LoS. I know it's not going to happen, but whoever the take better not bust - or we can add a few years to this rebuild.
* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.
oh, i'm digging this idea.wouldn't Corey Williams theoretically be more effective going back to a 4-3 as well?

regardless, i'm all for them taking the best defensive player available.

 
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All i can say is thank God...

Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns passing on Michael Crabtree

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter

Wednesday April 22, 2009, 10:41 AM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns have all but crossed off Michael Crabtree as a candidate for the No. 5 overall pick, said a source.

The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia.

* No, Derek Anderson did not have surgery on his left knee in the offseason. So why wouldn't Browns GM George Kokinis just admit it in his pre-draft press conference this week? It's a mandate from Mangini to not even acknowledge questions about surgeries. Mangini jumped all over Kokinis when Kokinis let it slip in an interview prior to the NFL combine in February that running back Jamal Lewis had routine arthroscopic surgery to "clean up" an ankle. Mangini does not even intend to speak the letters MRI if a player, in fact, has had the routine exam.

* Crabtree might not even be the first receiver taken in the draft. Seattle (fourth) and Cincinnati (sixth) are expected to fill greater needs on the offensive line. Oakland (seventh) is enamored with the speed of Missouri's Jeremy Maclin. Jacksonville (eighth) has been burned so many times by first-round receivers, they are gunshy to take another. It's quite possible that Alabama tackle Andre Smith, who turned off so many coaches at the NFL combine, will be taken ahead of Crabtree.

* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.

* New Orleans sees Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety and is expected to take him at No. 14.

* The first USC linebacker will go to Houston at No. 15. But which one? Either Brian Cushing or Clay Matthews, but not Rey Maualuga.
Link
You don't believe this do ya? Mangini's notoriously tightlipped, now all of a sudden we have a detailed report of Crab's visit. I'm throwing the BS flag on this. Somebody's a horrible liar, they couldn't come up with something better than "not nice"
I've never believed for a second the Browns had/have any interest in taking Crabtree. I might jump off a bridge if they take him and hold on to him.
 
thecardiackid said:
My 'out of the box' idea is scrap the 3-4, take Raji, pair him up w/ Rodgers in the middle - and build from the up-front inside out. They could be like the Williams' in MN. A solid D line makes the rest of the D look A LOT better when they're controlling the LoS. I know it's not going to happen, but whoever the take better not bust - or we can add a few years to this rebuild.
* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.
oh, i'm digging this idea.wouldn't Corey Williams theoretically be more effective going back to a 4-3 as well?

regardless, i'm all for them taking the best defensive player available.
:shrug: sign me up for this idea as well. Could you imagine the different possable defensive line fronts the browns would be able to throw at the oppostion. As the old saying goes the games are won in the trenches.
 
thecardiackid said:
My 'out of the box' idea is scrap the 3-4, take Raji, pair him up w/ Rodgers in the middle - and build from the up-front inside out. They could be like the Williams' in MN. A solid D line makes the rest of the D look A LOT better when they're controlling the LoS. I know it's not going to happen, but whoever the take better not bust - or we can add a few years to this rebuild.
* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.
oh, i'm digging this idea.wouldn't Corey Williams theoretically be more effective going back to a 4-3 as well?

regardless, i'm all for them taking the best defensive player available.
:confused: sign me up for this idea as well. Could you imagine the different possable defensive line fronts the browns would be able to throw at the oppostion. As the old saying goes the games are won in the trenches.
Maybe it's not that :crazy:

:shrug: :mellow: :banned:

Glad to hear his negative piss test was a false report.

 
thecardiackid said:
My 'out of the box' idea is scrap the 3-4, take Raji, pair him up w/ Rodgers in the middle - and build from the up-front inside out. They could be like the Williams' in MN. A solid D line makes the rest of the D look A LOT better when they're controlling the LoS. I know it's not going to happen, but whoever the take better not bust - or we can add a few years to this rebuild.
* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.
oh, i'm digging this idea.wouldn't Corey Williams theoretically be more effective going back to a 4-3 as well?

regardless, i'm all for them taking the best defensive player available.
:shrug: sign me up for this idea as well. Could you imagine the different possable defensive line fronts the browns would be able to throw at the oppostion. As the old saying goes the games are won in the trenches.
I agree Raji is a beast and with both him and Rogers on the line I think that would have more of an impact than Crabtree. I think I would still take Curry if he dropped though.Need some D if you’re gona win in the AFCN.

 
Now this I think is complete :goodposting: ...

USC quarterback Mark Sanchez part of Cleveland Browns' draft mystery

by Mary Kay Cabot/Plain Dealer Reporter

Wednesday April 22, 2009, 11:38 PM

The Browns didn't invite USC quarterback Mark Sanchez to Cleveland for a pre-draft visit and they didn't send a contingent to Los Angeles to work him out privately.

But that doesn't mean they won't draft him if he's still there at No. 5 during Saturday's NFL draft. In fact, some teams purposely don't invite their coveted player to town to throw other teams off.

Besides, Browns coach Eric Mangini interviewed Sanchez at the NFL combine in February, attended his Pro Day at USC and spent plenty of time picking the brains of USC coach Pete Carroll -- the former Patriots head coach -- about him.

Of course, the Browns would need to have a deal in place for Brady Quinn if they're to tab Sanchez, but at least one draft analyst envisions that happening.

"I've talked to teams that have told me the Browns are actively shopping Quinn," said Rob Rang of nfldraftscout.com. "I've also heard that the Jets [No. 17 pick] are one of the teams that might be interested in trading for him."

One NFL source questioned why the Browns would trade Quinn and draft a quarterback who's started only 16 college games. Studies have shown that quarterbacks with fewer than 30 college starts struggle in the NFL.

"I'm still confident that Brady Quinn is going to be a successful NFL quarterback," said the source. "Right now, he's better than Sanchez because of being around the pro game for two seasons. It would be risky move."

Of course, the Browns' rumored interest in Sanchez could be a smokescreen to spur interest in the pick. Other teams interested are Denver at No. 12, Washington at No. 13 and the Jets. Sanchez also has been mentioned as high as No. 2 to the Rams and No. 4 to the Seahawks. "Some people are saying Detroit [at No. 1] but I don't know," Sanchez said on a conference call Wednesday. "I think [Georgia's Matt] Stafford's got that one locked down."

Meanwhile, Sanchez would be excited about the prospect of playing for the Browns.

"Oh, it would be great," he said. "I know they have a quarterback situation going on there, and hopefully it would be a good competition. Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson are great quarterbacks. [Anderson] was a counselor at the Elite 11 camp I went to my senior year in high school, so I know him pretty well. Brady Quinn I met at the Notre Dame-USC rivalry game. That would be great."

Sanchez said he had 15-minute interview with Mangini at the combine, "but other than that I haven't had much contact with them. Who knows in this whole process? But if Cleveland is my new hometown, that would be great."

Several draft experts, including NFL Network's Mike Mayock, have Sanchez ranked ahead of Stafford.

"I was at both pro days -- Georgia and USC -- and I've watched just about every throw each quarterback has made this year," Mayock said on a conference call. "And the bottom line for me at the quarterback position [is decision-making and accuracy]. I think Sanchez is the most accurate of the three [including Kansas State's Josh Freeman] and in the USC type of offense I can see him making every throw he needs to make at the NFL level.

"He might not have as much arm strength, and he might not be quite as exciting, but at the end of the day, if I've got a top 10 pick and my job's on the line at the quarterback position, I'm taking Sanchez."

Sanchez attributes his rapid climb over the past few weeks to strong interviewing.

"Once teams talk to me, I think they've liked me even more without the helmet on," he said.

What Sanchez lacks in starts, he makes up for in exposure to a pro-style offense. He cited former USC backup Matt Cassel, who excelled in New England last season and will start for the Chiefs.

"[Our offense] really transfers over and teams like to see that," he said. "I've also practiced against a pro-style defense with guys like [brian] Cushing, [Rey] Maualuga, and [Clay] Matthews -- guys who are going to be first-rounders and things like that."

NFL draft analyst Dave-Te' Thomas compares Sanchez to Ben Roethlisberger and writes, "[He] might lack the game experience or incredible arm strength of Matthew Stafford, but he does show a lot of moxie on the field, along with good patience and excellent timing and touch. He needs to be in a strong vertical attack, as he's best throwing downfield and does a great job of anticipating his receivers before they come out of their breaks."
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Giants' hopes of trading for Braylon Edwards are all but dead.

Barring a last-minute drop in the Cleveland Browns' asking price, the Giants do not expect to acquire the big receiver, according to a source familiar with the situation. Giants GM Jerry Reese has told the Browns he will not give up the Giants' first-round draft pick (29th overall) for Edwards, and the Browns apparently won't take less.

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.

The current stalemate puts the Giants and Browns about where they were in February when Reese and Browns GM George Kokinis first talked about an Edwards deal and didn't make much progress.

The Giants are also not expected to make a run at Arizona receiver Anquan Boldin, the source said. Instead, they will turn their attention toward drafting a receiver with the 29th pick, or possibly moving up in the first round.
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Giants' hopes of trading for Braylon Edwards are all but dead.

Barring a last-minute drop in the Cleveland Browns' asking price, the Giants do not expect to acquire the big receiver, according to a source familiar with the situation. Giants GM Jerry Reese has told the Browns he will not give up the Giants' first-round draft pick (29th overall) for Edwards, and the Browns apparently won't take less.

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.

The current stalemate puts the Giants and Browns about where they were in February when Reese and Browns GM George Kokinis first talked about an Edwards deal and didn't make much progress.

The Giants are also not expected to make a run at Arizona receiver Anquan Boldin, the source said. Instead, they will turn their attention toward drafting a receiver with the 29th pick, or possibly moving up in the first round.
Good. The Giants need Edwards more than we need to trade him. We're not a bargain basement.

 
At this point, I'm leaning toward wanting Curry or Raji. If we could trade down a couple / few spots and land Raji, I'd be ecstatic. I would also love to land Maualuga.

I don't have a problem trading Edwards, but think we need a first round pick from the deal. Anything on top of that would be nice (Manningham, a 4th rounder, etc.)

I don't want to trade Quinn, but if we can move Anderson for a 3rd round pick or better, I'd consider it.

Other than that, hopefully land some solid guys and aren't afraid to move around. Draft Day trades make the day exciting, plus you never know if the guy is going to pan out for a few years.

I'm ready to go. :football:

 
In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree. :football:
IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.
Why can't we just do the right thing and see if Arizona will take Braylon for Boldin? That way we can make a lateral move instead of creating yet another need to be filled by an unproven player.
No arguments here about that trade, however I wouldn't be disappointed if they still selected Crabtree. The offense is close to being great IMO (or at least very good). Defense is farther away and could use a playmaker, but I would rather get a young supporting cast before drafting 'the guy' on defense. I could be without a clue as well.(My point being is Crabtree is that special of a player, don't pass on him just because he's a wideout wether you have Braylon or Boldin.)
The same offense that didn't score a touchdown for the last six games of the regular season? The same offense that traded its most consistent player in the off-season (Winslow)? The same offense with a starting RB with a whole lot of miles on him? The same offense who's best player now doesn't want to play for this team? This offense is nowhere near great. I want Stalworth kicked off the team out of principle. This offense will be lucky to be mediocre.
 
In New York this week and a few people were saying they're gonna trade up to get Crabtree. :thumbdown:
IMO, the ONLY player worth even considering trading up for is Curry. I'll be extremely unhappy if the take Crabtree, whether Braylon is still on the team or not.
Why can't we just do the right thing and see if Arizona will take Braylon for Boldin? That way we can make a lateral move instead of creating yet another need to be filled by an unproven player.
No arguments here about that trade, however I wouldn't be disappointed if they still selected Crabtree. The offense is close to being great IMO (or at least very good). Defense is farther away and could use a playmaker, but I would rather get a young supporting cast before drafting 'the guy' on defense. I could be without a clue as well.(My point being is Crabtree is that special of a player, don't pass on him just because he's a wideout wether you have Braylon or Boldin.)
The same offense that didn't score a touchdown for the last six games of the regular season? The same offense that traded its most consistent player in the off-season (Winslow)? The same offense with a starting RB with a whole lot of miles on him? The same offense who's best player now doesn't want to play for this team? This offense is nowhere near great. I want Stalworth kicked off the team out of principle. This offense will be lucky to be mediocre.
Who was our QB over the last 6 weeks of the season? Winslow was consistent last year, consistently bad. In order to gain separation from defenders he had to push off. I don't know which Winslow Tampa acquired, but if it's 2008 Winslow they made a terrible move. No counter argument to the Lewis comment, I imagine 2009 is his last (decent) year, hopefully he put some pounds back on and focuses on being a between the tackles back. I just hope Mangini doesn't use Harrison like he used Washington last year, he needs to be more involved. Although I suspect it will be more of the same. Who's this best player that doesn't want to play for this team you speak of? Braylon? He was a liability last year.
 
The same offense that didn't score a touchdown for the last six games of the regular season? The same offense that traded its most consistent player in the off-season (Winslow)? The same offense with a starting RB with a whole lot of miles on him? The same offense who's best player now doesn't want to play for this team? This offense is nowhere near great. I want Stalworth kicked off the team out of principle. This offense will be lucky to be mediocre.
Who was our QB over the last 6 weeks of the season? Winslow was consistent last year, consistently bad. In order to gain separation from defenders he had to push off. I don't know which Winslow Tampa acquired, but if it's 2008 Winslow they made a terrible move. No counter argument to the Lewis comment, I imagine 2009 is his last (decent) year, hopefully he put some pounds back on and focuses on being a between the tackles back. I just hope Mangini doesn't use Harrison like he used Washington last year, he needs to be more involved. Although I suspect it will be more of the same. Who's this best player that doesn't want to play for this team you speak of? Braylon? He was a liability last year.
Yeah, its Braylon. I think he's made it pretty clear he's mentally checked out of Cleveland. I know Dorsey and Gradkowski were starting the last six weeks, but not scoring a single touchdown says a lot more about the offense as a whole rather than soley the QB posistion. I was pointing out that this offense isn't close to being great as longsnapper indicated.
 
At this point, I'm leaning toward wanting Curry or Raji. If we could trade down a couple / few spots and land Raji, I'd be ecstatic. I would also love to land Maualuga. I don't have a problem trading Edwards, but think we need a first round pick from the deal. Anything on top of that would be nice (Manningham, a 4th rounder, etc.)I don't want to trade Quinn, but if we can move Anderson for a 3rd round pick or better, I'd consider it.Other than that, hopefully land some solid guys and aren't afraid to move around. Draft Day trades make the day exciting, plus you never know if the guy is going to pan out for a few years. I'm ready to go. :football:
:goodposting: :lmao: :goodposting:
 
The same offense that didn't score a touchdown for the last six games of the regular season? The same offense that traded its most consistent player in the off-season (Winslow)? The same offense with a starting RB with a whole lot of miles on him? The same offense who's best player now doesn't want to play for this team? This offense is nowhere near great. I want Stalworth kicked off the team out of principle. This offense will be lucky to be mediocre.
Who was our QB over the last 6 weeks of the season? Winslow was consistent last year, consistently bad. In order to gain separation from defenders he had to push off. I don't know which Winslow Tampa acquired, but if it's 2008 Winslow they made a terrible move. No counter argument to the Lewis comment, I imagine 2009 is his last (decent) year, hopefully he put some pounds back on and focuses on being a between the tackles back. I just hope Mangini doesn't use Harrison like he used Washington last year, he needs to be more involved. Although I suspect it will be more of the same. Who's this best player that doesn't want to play for this team you speak of? Braylon? He was a liability last year.
Yeah, its Braylon. I think he's made it pretty clear he's mentally checked out of Cleveland. I know Dorsey and Gradkowski were starting the last six weeks, but not scoring a single touchdown says a lot more about the offense as a whole rather than soley the QB posistion. I was pointing out that this offense isn't close to being great as longsnapper indicated.
That may be the case (Braylon mentally checking out), but if Manny Ramirez showed us anything last year is that a player cannot dog it in his final days with a team without future reprecussions. If Braylon stays, he'll play or else his payday's not going to be as sweet as he wants it to be.
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Giants' hopes of trading for Braylon Edwards are all but dead.

Barring a last-minute drop in the Cleveland Browns' asking price, the Giants do not expect to acquire the big receiver, according to a source familiar with the situation. Giants GM Jerry Reese has told the Browns he will not give up the Giants' first-round draft pick (29th overall) for Edwards, and the Browns apparently won't take less.

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.

The current stalemate puts the Giants and Browns about where they were in February when Reese and Browns GM George Kokinis first talked about an Edwards deal and didn't make much progress.

The Giants are also not expected to make a run at Arizona receiver Anquan Boldin, the source said. Instead, they will turn their attention toward drafting a receiver with the 29th pick, or possibly moving up in the first round.
This "source" is probably Sal Palontonio....or they have the same source. Exactly what Sal was talking about yesterday evening on the espn draft special. Browns demanding Kiwanuka and 1st or 1st and 3rd...NYG offering 2nd, 5th and maybe a throw in WR knowing we don't have any other potential buyers for Edwards.
 
I'm as torn as some of you guys are too on what to do. In years past, it was pretty straight forward on what most of us wanted, not that we always agreed, but still. Now we have all these trade rumors with Edwards, Quinn and DA to shuffle in and it is making things even more difficult.

Someone mentioned Curry playing outside and nobody commented on that. I'm pretty sure he'd be in the middle with Jackson most of the time.

It's gonna be pretty easy to defend anything we do because #1 we have a helluvalot to do, #2 we have some nice picks, and #3 we could aquire more good picks.

I think the sleeper pick here will be RT if one of the names fall to #5 or Raji, over Crabtree. If we trade Braylon, we have a major issue at WR, but I still think they'll try to fill that later in the draft and probably pick up a few vets for this year. We need to pound the ball in this division and generally speaking make calculated precision throws (why I like Quinn) with good route running WRs and TEs, not play sling it football like we did with Anderson two years ago.

 
I think the sleeper pick here will be RT if one of the names fall to #5 or Raji, over Crabtree. If we trade Braylon, we have a major issue at WR, but I still think they'll try to fill that later in the draft and probably pick up a few vets for this year. We need to pound the ball in this division and generally speaking make calculated precision throws (why I like Quinn) with good route running WRs and TEs, not play sling it football like we did with Anderson two years ago.
seems like they almost have to go defense with the first pick.i'm not saying the guys they got are great, but they signed a few offensive linemen and may be getting Tucker back healthy. i'm just not seeing drafting a guy to play RT at 1.5. that said, i wouldn't necessarily be mad at that pick, because we all know you can never have too many good linemen.also i am confused as anyone why we keep hearing trade rumors about Quinn, it seems like he's the type of QB this team needs. but maybe we are overestimating his intelligence and accuracy?
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Giants' hopes of trading for Braylon Edwards are all but dead.

Barring a last-minute drop in the Cleveland Browns' asking price, the Giants do not expect to acquire the big receiver, according to a source familiar with the situation. Giants GM Jerry Reese has told the Browns he will not give up the Giants' first-round draft pick (29th overall) for Edwards, and the Browns apparently won't take less.

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.

The current stalemate puts the Giants and Browns about where they were in February when Reese and Browns GM George Kokinis first talked about an Edwards deal and didn't make much progress.

The Giants are also not expected to make a run at Arizona receiver Anquan Boldin, the source said. Instead, they will turn their attention toward drafting a receiver with the 29th pick, or possibly moving up in the first round.
Hopefully this is one of two things1- posturizing on the Giants part to try and lower Edwards' price, which we do not fall for and they end up paying what we want

2- a sign that Braylon's going to be a Brown this year, selling him that low would be dumb imho

 
i was just listening to The Herd on xm. he was arguing why Braylon is an elite reciever. his counter-argument to the drops problem was something like this (i'm paraphrasing):

"16 drops = 1 drop per game. if we throw the ball to him 8 times a game, he catches seven. with his big play ability, i can live with that."

that is some insanely stupid analysis right there.

 
I think the sleeper pick here will be RT if one of the names fall to #5 or Raji, over Crabtree. If we trade Braylon, we have a major issue at WR, but I still think they'll try to fill that later in the draft and probably pick up a few vets for this year. We need to pound the ball in this division and generally speaking make calculated precision throws (why I like Quinn) with good route running WRs and TEs, not play sling it football like we did with Anderson two years ago.
I don't think either Jason Smith or Monroe project well to RT, I think we address the run blocking aspect of the o line sometime day one but would rather we do that with the Tampa pick. I'd be surprised if one of Jamon Meredith, Duke Robinson, and Eric Wood are not available, they'd make sense.
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.
with the Giants picking 29th, doesn't this basically work out to a 3rd and a 6th? that is a terrible offer if true.
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.
with the Giants picking 29th, doesn't this basically work out to a 3rd and a 6th? that is a terrible offer if true.
The Giants also own the Saints 2nd and 5th round picks which are higher. The Saints 2nd is 45th overall
 
Source: Cost too high, Giants likely won't trade for Braylon Edwards

By Ralph Vacchiano

DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Wednesday, April 22nd 2009, 11:42 PM

The Browns have asked for the Giants' first- and third-round picks - far more than the second- and fifth-round picks the Giants have offered. They had also previously asked for Giants defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka, although the Giants told them that was a deal-breaker.
with the Giants picking 29th, doesn't this basically work out to a 3rd and a 6th? that is a terrible offer if true.
The Giants also own the Saints 2nd and 5th round picks which are higher. The Saints 2nd is 45th overall
that makes more sense if they are offering those picks.
 
also i am confused as anyone why we keep hearing trade rumors about Quinn, it seems like he's the type of QB this team needs. but maybe we are overestimating his intelligence and accuracy?
maybe because that's who teams are asking about, which means other teams like him more than DA.
 
amnesiac said:
i was just listening to The Herd on xm. he was arguing why Braylon is an elite reciever. his counter-argument to the drops problem was something like this (i'm paraphrasing):

"16 drops = 1 drop per game. if we throw the ball to him 8 times a game, he catches seven. with his big play ability, i can live with that."

that is some insanely stupid analysis right there.
fixed
 
I don't like Colin Cowherd. He's arrogant and something about him rubs me the wrong way.

But he's right.

Braylon IS an elite receiver, he finds separation, runs good routes, and has the physical attributes. He's a game changer when he's on. Weather conditions, bad timing with the quarterback, and constant defensive pressure will cause drops. And excessive drops lead to a mental breakdown in confidence, which leads to more drops. We have seen bad weather conditions, we had a monumentally hard schedule loaded with great defenses, and bad timing with the quarterbacks (lack of training camp) created this nightmare.

Braylon will have a full training camp, will develop his timing, and will have an easier schedule. Aside from the weather, we're home free if he gains his confidence back. If he's with us, I see no lower than 1,300 yards and 8 TDs. Someone has to get the ball with Winslow gone and questions at #2 WR.

 
I don't like Colin Cowherd. He's arrogant and something about him rubs me the wrong way. But he's right.Braylon IS an elite receiver, he finds separation, runs good routes, and has the physical attributes. He's a game changer when he's on. Weather conditions, bad timing with the quarterback, and constant defensive pressure will cause drops. And excessive drops lead to a mental breakdown in confidence, which leads to more drops. We have seen bad weather conditions, we had a monumentally hard schedule loaded with great defenses, and bad timing with the quarterbacks (lack of training camp) created this nightmare. Braylon will have a full training camp, will develop his timing, and will have an easier schedule. Aside from the weather, we're home free if he gains his confidence back. If he's with us, I see no lower than 1,300 yards and 8 TDs. Someone has to get the ball with Winslow gone and questions at #2 WR.
i agree that Edwards still has the potential to do great things, but to write of last year as an anomaly seems unwise to me. he has some serious flaws in his game.also, my point was that Herd's math was WAY off, and that some of those drops were indeed game-changers. a more accurate statement would have been, "if he can reduce the drops, he has the potential to really be an elite reciever."
 
Why would CLE feel the need to dump BE, just b/c he's expressed a desire to move and his rookie contract is up in 2010?

Couldn't we just franchise him next year (and maybe the year after - just to piss him off)? Then work out a trade that is better all around. If they get jammed here in the next couple days - and ManKok folds by taking a 2nd round pick and some scraps - I will be pissed.

$ wise, even w/ a franchise tag, we'd be paying him *about* what he'd be expecting on a new deal anyway ( $/yr wise ) if he's not going to consider extending in CLE. Maybe I'm wrong about the math, but let him play out the year - basically forced to strive for good #'s to help him w/ his next payday. Then slap him w/ the tag.

If he decides to turtle w/ a less than stellar effort in the franchise year, then he'll just be hurting his chances @ a fat contract.

And if they decide to trade him, I'd MUCH rather a proven (DEFENSIVE) NFL quality player vs. a crapshoot draft pick - especially in the mid to late 2nd (or later).

 
All of this offensive player talk with the #5 pick makes me think we'll go defense instead. I have nothing to back it up, just a gut feeling. If it was Curry or maybe Raji, then it would make sense. I don't see Orakpo as an option at this point.

 
thecardiackid said:
Why would CLE feel the need to dump BE, just b/c he's expressed a desire to move and his rookie contract is up in 2010? Couldn't we just franchise him next year (and maybe the year after - just to piss him off)? Then work out a trade that is better all around. If they get jammed here in the next couple days - and ManKok folds by taking a 2nd round pick and some scraps - I will be pissed.$ wise, even w/ a franchise tag, we'd be paying him *about* what he'd be expecting on a new deal anyway ( $/yr wise ) if he's not going to consider extending in CLE. Maybe I'm wrong about the math, but let him play out the year - basically forced to strive for good #'s to help him w/ his next payday. Then slap him w/ the tag.If he decides to turtle w/ a less than stellar effort in the franchise year, then he'll just be hurting his chances @ a fat contract.And if they decide to trade him, I'd MUCH rather a proven (DEFENSIVE) NFL quality player vs. a crapshoot draft pick - especially in the mid to late 2nd (or later).
Makes sense to me...I think if ManKok gets the right deal, he probably is gone. They are just not going to bend over for anyone.
 
BoltThrower said:
also i am confused as anyone why we keep hearing trade rumors about Quinn, it seems like he's the type of QB this team needs. but maybe we are overestimating his intelligence and accuracy?
maybe because that's who teams are asking about, which means other teams like him more than DA.
Yeah, there can't be much of a market for DA, at least willing to pay a day 1 pick, so the value is with Quinn. One person really hyping this Quinn/DA stuff is Reghi. I've not heard him talk specifics and dumb trade rumors (let me know if I'm wrong), but I've heard him say more than one time that multiple sources from other organizations that he trusts says ManKok is not sold on either QB at all. I tend to put Reghi near the trust level that I do with Windhorst and Pluto in this town.On a side note, Bernie has been on top of his game twice this week on Reghi. lol
 
While I have no idea what the hell the Browns are going to do tomorrow, it sure will be fun to watch...

Jets eye quarterbacks Mark Sanchez, Brady Quinn and Jason Campbell

BY Rich Cimini

NY DAILY NEWS

Despite public declarations of confidence in Kellen Clemens and Brett Ratliff, the Jets have emerged as a key player in the quarterback market and seem determined to find a new signal-caller in this weekend's draft - rookie or veteran.

Not only do they remain interested in trading up for USC's Mark Sanchez, suddenly the hottest prospect in the draft, but the Jets are involved in trade scenarios for the Browns' Brady Quinn and the Redskins' Jason Campbell, league sources said Thursday.

Depending on how things break in the top eight picks, there's a decent chance the Jets will land one of the three quarterbacks. GM Mike Tannenbaum wants to add a dynamic piece to the offensive puzzle, which has glaring holes. It could be a quarterback or perhaps Cards wide receiver Anquan Boldin, another marquee player on the trading block.

The Browns (who pick fifth) and Redskins (13th) are thought to be interested in Sanchez. According to sources, the team that gets him will try to trade its incumbent. In the Browns' case, former Jets coach Eric Mangini might deal Quinn either way.

The drama will start to build when the Chiefs (third pick) are on the clock. They're looking to trade down, and their spot could be a target for the Redskins. The Seahawks (fourth pick) have said they're not going to select a quarterback, but their pick could be for sale - another potential landing spot for the Redskins, who might need to jump ahead of the Browns.

If Sanchez somehow slips to the Jaguars (eighth), the Jets and Redskins could engage in a bidding war for the pick. Picking 17th, the Jets probably don't have enough ammunition to get higher than that unless they start trading future picks and/or players.

No matter what happens, it will be a fascinating quarterback scramble. The Jets, who made an unsuccessful bid for Jay Cutler, feel something is missing. Thing is, Sanchez, Campbell and Quinn all come with question marks.

Sanchez made only 16 college starts, Campbell is a quiet leader who may not be suited for New York and Quinn, the former Notre Dame star, has less NFL experience than Clemens. Quinn and Campbell are former first-round picks.

Quinn famously slid to the 22nd pick in 2007 and was thrown into a quarterback controversy with Derek Anderson, who also is reportedly being shopped. Quinn is 1-2 as a starter, with a 49.5% completion rate, two touchdowns, two interceptions and a 65.8 rating. Critics say his accuracy isn't where it should be, but he's a high-profile player who understands how to perform under intense scrutiny. The Browns surrendered a first-round pick to trade up for Quinn, and they're likely to demand a first-round pick in return.
Link :thumbup:

 
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I think the Browns want to trade down in the first round to get more picks. The best way for that to happen is if Sanchez is on the board at #5. If Sanchez doesn't happen to be there, the Browns may feel compelled to trade Braylon to the Giants, even if they don't get that 1st round pick they were hoping for, and that would compel the Browns to select Crabtree.

I think its unacceptable to the Browns brain trust to come away from this draft with only the picks they currently have, though.

My prediction: Sanchez is still there at #5, and the Browns trade down with the Broncos. Broncos move up to #5 and select Sanchez. Browns pick up a third round pick and grab something for the defensive line at #12. Broncos have a LOT of picks in this draft - they have two firsts and two thirds. They can do this.

 
BoltThrower said:
also i am confused as anyone why we keep hearing trade rumors about Quinn, it seems like he's the type of QB this team needs. but maybe we are overestimating his intelligence and accuracy?
maybe because that's who teams are asking about, which means other teams like him more than DA.
Yeah, there can't be much of a market for DA, at least willing to pay a day 1 pick, so the value is with Quinn. One person really hyping this Quinn/DA stuff is Reghi. I've not heard him talk specifics and dumb trade rumors (let me know if I'm wrong), but I've heard him say more than one time that multiple sources from other organizations that he trusts says ManKok is not sold on either QB at all. I tend to put Reghi near the trust level that I do with Windhorst and Pluto in this town.On a side note, Bernie has been on top of his game twice this week on Reghi. lol
On the way home yesterday I heard Reghi say that the Eagles had jumped in the mix for Braylon, but they offered their #1 (21?) and either Shawn Andrews or a DB (Brown?) for Edwards AND #5. :confused:
 
My prediction: Sanchez is still there at #5, and the Browns trade down with the Broncos. Broncos move up to #5 and select Sanchez. Browns pick up a third round pick and grab something for the defensive line at #12. Broncos have a LOT of picks in this draft - they have two firsts and two thirds. They can do this.
I would be very happy with this outcome. I wouldn't be surprised to see one of the Bey/Nicks/Britt type receivers slide to their 2.4 pick.
 
I think the Browns want to trade down in the first round to get more picks. The best way for that to happen is if Sanchez is on the board at #5. If Sanchez doesn't happen to be there, the Browns may feel compelled to trade Braylon to the Giants, even if they don't get that 1st round pick they were hoping for, and that would compel the Browns to select Crabtree.I think its unacceptable to the Browns brain trust to come away from this draft with only the picks they currently have, though.My prediction: Sanchez is still there at #5, and the Browns trade down with the Broncos. Broncos move up to #5 and select Sanchez. Browns pick up a third round pick and grab something for the defensive line at #12. Broncos have a LOT of picks in this draft - they have two firsts and two thirds. They can do this.
i'd like this too.but i think it's possible we see the Browns trade Edwards without selecting Crabtree.
 
I think the Browns want to trade down in the first round to get more picks. The best way for that to happen is if Sanchez is on the board at #5. If Sanchez doesn't happen to be there, the Browns may feel compelled to trade Braylon to the Giants, even if they don't get that 1st round pick they were hoping for, and that would compel the Browns to select Crabtree.I think its unacceptable to the Browns brain trust to come away from this draft with only the picks they currently have, though.My prediction: Sanchez is still there at #5, and the Browns trade down with the Broncos. Broncos move up to #5 and select Sanchez. Browns pick up a third round pick and grab something for the defensive line at #12. Broncos have a LOT of picks in this draft - they have two firsts and two thirds. They can do this.
i'd like this too.but i think it's possible we see the Browns trade Edwards without selecting Crabtree.
Ya, I think it's entirely likely that the Sanchez and Crabtree posturing is just that, major posturing. They're trying their best to get out of #5 and I think that is completely independent of what we do or don't do with Edwards.
 

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