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BROWNS THREAD 2009 4 GAME WIN STREAK! (1 Viewer)

i'll give Savage credit for bringing in Thomas and Rogers, and for being aggresive, but he really did screw the Browns with some of the trades and money he spent on some of the players.

personally i did expect the Browns to be a bit better than they are right now, but i agree that this is a rebuilding project and you have to give them some time.

 
they need to pay Cribbs and get it over with.

they should really have a contract ready for him to sign as he's walking off the field of the last game.

 
The players hate Mangini. That's what's going on here. This can't work. The franchise needs to move on.
OK, so lets pretend Lerner fires Mangini after a few more losses, and Rob Ryan finshes out the season.who do the Browns hire for next season?
 
hey, Braylon might be lights out the rest of the year and make Cleveland look like idiots.but this isn't out of the norm for what we've seen from him.and god forbid the Jets go on a bad losing streak. i think Edwards would cause a lot of friction with Sanchez.
Nothing Braylon does will make us look foolish for trading him, I can't think of anything that will change my mind that he intentionally dogged it to get out of here.
Pretty much. I only saw about half the game, but I didn't hear anyone with a pair say anything too negative against Braylon, besides his dropsies and that was even brief. But that's how the national media has rolled with this for the most part. Not suprising either.
I love the fact that no one has been talking about his drop on that bomb that was flagged for pass interference. The defender hardly touched him, and that was a drop, no question.
How are those grapes?
Yeah, we'll just see. He had great games in Cleveland, too.
 
amnesiac said:
The players hate Mangini. That's what's going on here. This can't work. The franchise needs to move on.
OK, so lets pretend Lerner fires Mangini after a few more losses, and Rob Ryan finshes out the season.who do the Browns hire for next season?
Boy just about any serviceable candidate would be an upgrade to Mangini. Let's be honest here, the people who defend Mangini have done it by making a case that he is strong on drafting an acquiring talented players. But even if you accept that premise at face value, its an argument for Mangini being a GM and not a head coach. There hasn't been a soul that has defended him as being good as a coach.
 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.

 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
-- Mangini Could Lose All Grievances --Sun Oct 11, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

#

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports currently, there are 27 player grievances against Cleveland Browns HC Eric Mangini and the team. The NFL believes the Browns could lose all of them and that Mangini should settle them in-house.

 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
-- Mangini Could Lose All Grievances --Sun Oct 11, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

#

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports currently, there are 27 player grievances against Cleveland Browns HC Eric Mangini and the team. The NFL believes the Browns could lose all of them and that Mangini should settle them in-house.
i thought i read earlier that Mangini has never lost a grievance?of course, that doesn't mean anything in regards to the new grievances. just thought it was interesting.

 
amnesiac said:
The players hate Mangini. That's what's going on here. This can't work. The franchise needs to move on.
OK, so lets pretend Lerner fires Mangini after a few more losses, and Rob Ryan finshes out the season.who do the Browns hire for next season?
Boy just about any serviceable candidate would be an upgrade to Mangini. Let's be honest here, the people who defend Mangini have done it by making a case that he is strong on drafting an acquiring talented players. But even if you accept that premise at face value, its an argument for Mangini being a GM and not a head coach. There hasn't been a soul that has defended him as being good as a coach.
name a few.
 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
i'm not sure you can say that none of the players support Mangini.he brought a lot of former players in with him from the Jets. and i've read several quotes from current players saying that they are behind him.

i would not doubt that there are also some players that also hate his guts.

 
for those of you who are fans of Great Lakes, go to the brewery and get a pint of Bourbon Barrel Blackout Stout.

it won't be on tap very long.

if you've never had it, it's amazing.

:goodposting:

 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
-- Mangini Could Lose All Grievances --Sun Oct 11, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

#

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports currently, there are 27 player grievances against Cleveland Browns HC Eric Mangini and the team. The NFL believes the Browns could lose all of them and that Mangini should settle them in-house.
i thought i read earlier that Mangini has never lost a grievance?of course, that doesn't mean anything in regards to the new grievances. just thought it was interesting.
Well if you settle the grievances before they go to arbitration I guess you could say you never lost a grievance.
 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
-- Mangini Could Lose All Grievances --Sun Oct 11, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

#

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports currently, there are 27 player grievances against Cleveland Browns HC Eric Mangini and the team. The NFL believes the Browns could lose all of them and that Mangini should settle them in-house.
i thought i read earlier that Mangini has never lost a grievance?of course, that doesn't mean anything in regards to the new grievances. just thought it was interesting.
Well if you settle the grievances before they go to arbitration I guess you could say you never lost a grievance.
Sorta like how the Cleveland Indians would never lose an arbitration case with a player. But that's because like clockwork they'd trade a player coming up for arbitration.
 
One of the things that is VERY noticeable in this whole process is, from interstate bus trips, fines for bottles of water, trading off our best talent and juggling QBs, I can't find an instance where one Browns player has come out in public support of Mangini. Not ONE. Nobody is sticking up for this guy.

Maybe I'm wrong about that and there is a case where it has happened and I just missed it. Otherwise, the silence is deafening. You hear college coaches absolutely rip Mangini. You hear unidentified scouts rip Mangini. There are scouts that steer players away from the Browns simply because Mangini is the coach here

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ay-from-browns/

UPDATE: In response to this item, an agent who was not one of the sources for the original item contacted us, agreed with it wholeheartedly, and said, "I would put one of my players on another team's practice squad before putting him on the Browns."

I guess we could stick our heads in the sand and ignore all of these bad signs, and just blindly root for the Browns. But I think there is just so much piling up so quickly that the conclusion is inescapable - Mangini must be fired.
-- Mangini Could Lose All Grievances --Sun Oct 11, 2009 --from FFMastermind.com

#

Fox Sports' John Czarnecki reports currently, there are 27 player grievances against Cleveland Browns HC Eric Mangini and the team. The NFL believes the Browns could lose all of them and that Mangini should settle them in-house.
i thought i read earlier that Mangini has never lost a grievance?of course, that doesn't mean anything in regards to the new grievances. just thought it was interesting.
Well if you settle the grievances before they go to arbitration I guess you could say you never lost a grievance.
So you are saying that is what happened with the Jets in those cases? I don't know one way or the other....but you sound like you are speaking facts like you know.
 
So as per Cleveland.com, Kosar is back with the team officially as an adviser to Randy Lerner. He also has been working with the QBs as per Terry Pluto. Mangini is gushing about him.

Mangini is certainly not stupid. Everyone knows Kosar's status with the Browns faithful (for God's sakes I still wear a Kosar jersey every Sunday) and getting him aboard buys a little bit of good will during our initial stages of running Mangini out of town...

Bernie's Back

Terry Pluto's take

 
So as per Cleveland.com, Kosar is back with the team officially as an adviser to Randy Lerner. He also has been working with the QBs as per Terry Pluto. Mangini is gushing about him.

Mangini is certainly not stupid. Everyone knows Kosar's status with the Browns faithful (for God's sakes I still wear a Kosar jersey every Sunday) and getting him aboard buys a little bit of good will during our initial stages of running Mangini out of town...

Bernie's Back

Terry Pluto's take
The irony of this situation is getting extremely absurd.
 
Let's face it, the Browns are back to being an expansion team again. There is no core of talent on this team anymore now they've decided to dump K2, Braylon, and not develop Quinn. Like an expansion team, the first thing they have to do is to acquire some young difference makers, attempt to build a core and find an identity. That's going to be multiyear project.

This is a team chock full of role players and spare parts.

 
Let's face it, the Browns are back to being an expansion team again. There is no core of talent on this team anymore now they've decided to dump K2, Braylon, and not develop Quinn. Like an expansion team, the first thing they have to do is to acquire some young difference makers, attempt to build a core and find an identity. That's going to be multiyear project. This is a team chock full of role players and spare parts.
I think there are some solid core guys on that team like Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, and Dyqwell Jackson.I think the huge problem is the lack of playmakers on offense and an absolutely abysmal quarterback.
 
Let's face it, the Browns are back to being an expansion team again. There is no core of talent on this team anymore now they've decided to dump K2, Braylon, and not develop Quinn. Like an expansion team, the first thing they have to do is to acquire some young difference makers, attempt to build a core and find an identity. That's going to be multiyear project. This is a team chock full of role players and spare parts.
I think there are some solid core guys on that team like Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, and Dyqwell Jackson.I think the huge problem is the lack of playmakers on offense and an absolutely abysmal quarterback.
I'm beginning to think that Cribbs should be given a chance @QB. What the heck he QB'b at Kent State and there is no denying that the guy has the heart of a lion. He possably could redefine the position. What else could the browns lose?
 
Let's face it, the Browns are back to being an expansion team again. There is no core of talent on this team anymore now they've decided to dump K2, Braylon, and not develop Quinn. Like an expansion team, the first thing they have to do is to acquire some young difference makers, attempt to build a core and find an identity. That's going to be multiyear project. This is a team chock full of role players and spare parts.
I think there are some solid core guys on that team like Joe Thomas, Shaun Rogers, and Dyqwell Jackson.I think the huge problem is the lack of playmakers on offense and an absolutely abysmal quarterback.
I'm beginning to think that Cribbs should be given a chance @QB. What the heck he QB'b at Kent State and there is no denying that the guy has the heart of a lion. He possably could redefine the position. What else could the browns lose?
except that he's something like 0-4 passing this year. not sure what his career NFL passing stats are, but i think there's a reason he broke into the NFL as a special teams player.
 
Browns cornerback Eric Wright in accidentBy cleveland.comOctober 23, 2009, 8:18AMTracy Boulian/The Plain DealerBrowns cornerback Eric Wright was in a car accident early Friday morning.Cleveland - Browns cornerback Eric Wright was in a car accident early this morning, WKYC Channel 3 is reporting.According to the report, Wright drove off the side of the road on I-77 south near I-490 and rolled his car over.Wright was treated and released from the hospital.
So, they've got at least 12 players with the flu, DQ is gone for the year, and now Wright in a car accident. Bet the house on the Pack to cover.
 
Browns cleared of wrong doing in the James Davis inquiry: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/..._injury_to.html

FL clears Browns in injury to rookie Davis

By Mary Kay Cabot

October 23, 2009, 9:18PM

The Browns were cleared Friday evening of any wrongdoing regarding the season-ending shoulder injury to rookie running back James Davis.

Davis aggravated the injury and reportedly suffered a torn labrum earlier this month during a post-practice pass-blocking drill. Espn.com reported that Davis suffered the injury because he was not wearing pads and the linebacker who hit him was. It was later learned that the linebacker was Blake Costanzo. But the NFL investigated and found that the Browns did nothing wrong.

An unnamed NFL spokesman said in a statement:

"After reviewing video of the practice session and interviewing Cleveland Browns players, coaches and team staff, the NFL determined the injury sustained by running back James Davis occurred in a controlled environment and the Browns did not violate any league policies."

GUS CHAN / THE PLAIN DEALER

The Browns have been cleared in an investigation into the season-ending injury to rookie running back James Davis.

Browns coach Eric Mangini was confident all along that the Browns would come out of the investigation OK. According to several reports, Costanzo was not wearing pads during the "opportunity drill," designed to give younger players a chance to impress the coaches.

Throughout the process, Mangini said, "We talked to the league about it. We addressed it. We feel very comfortable with being where we're at."

Espn.com attributed its report to two witnesses to the incident from within the Browns organization and other NFL sources who corroborated it. The report said the NFL Players Association called it "an outrage" and planned to possibly file a grievance. Mangini stressed during the ordeal that he would never authorize a player in pads to hit a non-padded player.

Davis, a sixth-round pick from Clemson, reportedly underwent surgery in Alabama last week by Dr. James Andrews to repair the torn labrum. The Browns had no comment on the league's findings.

 
let's see...Packers - lots of points, Browns - not very many points:goodposting:
:goodposting: Maybe this will be the first time in 12 games that a RB gets a rushing TD or a WR gets a receiving TD. We have to be approaching a record in futility in that category, right?
 
So as per Cleveland.com, Kosar is back with the team officially as an adviser to Randy Lerner. He also has been working with the QBs as per Terry Pluto. Mangini is gushing about him.

Mangini is certainly not stupid. Everyone knows Kosar's status with the Browns faithful (for God's sakes I still wear a Kosar jersey every Sunday) and getting him aboard buys a little bit of good will during our initial stages of running Mangini out of town...

Bernie's Back

Terry Pluto's take
I still love Kosar saying how he liked playing on the green painted mud at the old stadium.
 
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how this team won a game is beyond me. :rolleyes:

i didn't get to see the whole game, but are they seriously sticking with Anderson?

 
how this team won a game is beyond me. :goodposting: i didn't get to see the whole game, but are they seriously sticking with Anderson?
:popcorn: They should have a pretty good idea what they have with DA now, and it's not a starting NFL QB. Either give Quinn or Ratliff a shot to see what they can do. Anderson is not the answer. This is beyond brutal, and has to stop.
 
Hard not to agree with McManamon's article after yesterday's game.

LINK

Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini

Might not be fair, but Mangini's time is up

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sports columnist

CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

The Browns were abysmal.

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.

Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

The Browns ended last season

playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

The evidence isn't there.

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

Heck, it can't be worse.

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

What's taking place is simply not working.
 
Have not seen as much DA backing around here lately. Drops, wind, green WRs, we're running out of excuses here. I'll say it again, he is who most of us thought he was. And Mangini is too ####### stubborn to take him out now when he should. Suprise me Mangini, suprise me!

 
Have not seen as much DA backing around here lately. Drops, wind, green WRs, we're running out of excuses here. I'll say it again, he is who most of us thought he was. And Mangini is too ####### stubborn to take him out now when he should. Suprise me Mangini, suprise me!
I'm sure I've been the biggest DA proponent here, and I got nothin'. I think we see Quinn after the bye. He'll have no shot at hitting his escalators, and we'll get to see whether we need to draft a QB or not. (Hint: We do.)
 
Have not seen as much DA backing around here lately. Drops, wind, green WRs, we're running out of excuses here. I'll say it again, he is who most of us thought he was. And Mangini is too ####### stubborn to take him out now when he should. Suprise me Mangini, suprise me!
I'm sure I've been the biggest DA proponent here, and I got nothin'. I think we see Quinn after the bye. He'll have no shot at hitting his escalators, and we'll get to see whether we need to draft a QB or not. (Hint: We do.)
DA is regressing exponentially.
 
Hard not to agree with McManamon's article after yesterday's game.

LINK

Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini

Might not be fair, but Mangini's time is up

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sports columnist

CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

The Browns were abysmal.

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.

Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

The Browns ended last season

playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

The evidence isn't there.

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

Heck, it can't be worse.

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

What's taking place is simply not working.
McManamon says a lot of things based on emotion. Let me paraphrase... "They look bad; fire the coach.""It's not working." Did anyone expect that simply replacing the coach would be a magical elixir? Seriously? The team lacks talent all over.

"Brady Quinn didn't get a real chance." He's been with the team long enough to show his ability, during games and in practice. If he was a superstar, it would show by now. That being said, QB is just one of a myriad of problems. Bring in Peyton Manning & the Browns still allow huge points to GB.

"Rob Ryan should be coach." Yup. There's that magical elixir just waiting for us. He calls the blitz that GB smoked & so earns a promotion.

"Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake." Derailing a long term effort to build a quality program because you want impossible immediate results and your emotions have taken over is a much better course of action.

 
Hard not to agree with McManamon's article after yesterday's game.

LINK

Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini

Might not be fair, but Mangini's time is up

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sports columnist

CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

The Browns were abysmal.

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.

Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

The Browns ended last season

playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

The evidence isn't there.

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

Heck, it can't be worse.

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

What's taking place is simply not working.
McManamon says a lot of things based on emotion. Let me paraphrase... "They look bad; fire the coach.""It's not working." Did anyone expect that simply replacing the coach would be a magical elixir? Seriously? The team lacks talent all over.

"Brady Quinn didn't get a real chance." He's been with the team long enough to show his ability, during games and in practice. If he was a superstar, it would show by now. That being said, QB is just one of a myriad of problems. Bring in Peyton Manning & the Browns still allow huge points to GB.

"Rob Ryan should be coach." Yup. There's that magical elixir just waiting for us. He calls the blitz that GB smoked & so earns a promotion.

"Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake." Derailing a long term effort to build a quality program because you want impossible immediate results and your emotions have taken over is a much better course of action.
Agree with you on Pat Mac's style.I'd be completely shocked if Lerner made the decision to cut bait on Mangini after 1 season, but with the way they are playing it's hard not to think that we'll be hiring a new head coach within the next 3-4 years. Having inferior talent is one thing, these guys look like they're quitting out there.

 
Have not seen as much DA backing around here lately. Drops, wind, green WRs, we're running out of excuses here. I'll say it again, he is who most of us thought he was. And Mangini is too ####### stubborn to take him out now when he should. Suprise me Mangini, suprise me!
I'm sure I've been the biggest DA proponent here, and I got nothin'. I think we see Quinn after the bye. He'll have no shot at hitting his escalators, and we'll get to see whether we need to draft a QB or not. (Hint: We do.)
DA is regressing exponentially.
Is there anything bigger than exponentially? How about logarithmically?
 
Hard not to agree with McManamon's article after yesterday's game.

LINK

Time for Browns to admit mistake with Mangini

Might not be fair, but Mangini's time is up

By Patrick McManamon

Beacon Journal sports columnist

CLEVELAND: The Browns have reached the time for a difficult decision regarding the future of Eric Mangini: There shouldn't be one.

Sunday was another humiliating loss, this one to the Green Bay Packers, at home. The 31-3 final does not do it justice.

The Browns were abysmal.

Yes, a bunch of guys had the flu during the week, and the flu stinks.

But so do the Browns — now 1-6 and playing worse.

The Packers were playing without two starters on the offensive line. They found a way to play well, to compete, to win.

Which is what mentally tough teams do.

The Browns find ways to lose, to botch games, to turn a loyal-to-a-fault fan following dispassionate and blase.

Coach Eric Mangini did not deserve the personal shots taken at him in Rolling Stone last week, but professionally, he has done nothing with this team except make it worse.

The Browns ended last season

playing their third- and fourth-string quarterbacks. This season's team has its roster, minus the normal number of injuries. It's not overly beaten up, and it's not an expansion team.

Yet it's the worst Browns team since the jubilant return in 1999.

This is Mangini's team. It's his approach, coaching staff and roster — with 23 new players on opening day (and 10 former New York Jets now on the team).

The Browns have been humiliated on the road in Baltimore and Denver, embarrassed at home by the Minnesota Vikings and the Packers. They lost by three to the Cincinnati Bengals then won by three in Buffalo.

Imagine — the highlight of the season is a three-point win over the Bills, when the starting quarterback completed two passes.

The two quarterbacks have regressed to the point that they don't resemble the guys who played the previous two seasons. All the Browns have done with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn is destroy their trade value.

Quinn was yanked after 10 quarters. The past 12 quarters, Anderson has gone 23-for-70, yet during a blowout loss Sunday, Quinn never looked for his helmet.

Is there any clearer indication that he has absolutely no future with the Browns?

Go down the roster, especially to the places Mangini made changes. The right side of the line? No better. Neither are the other spots where Mangini brought in ''his'' guys — at receiver, tight end, safety, inside linebacker or defensive end. Not to mention offensive coordinator.

Too, consider the teams that former coaches Butch Davis and Romeo Crennel took over. None had a Shaun Rogers at nose tackle, a Josh Cribbs, a Joe Thomas, an Eric Steinbach.

Mangini did not take over a 12-win team, but he also did not take over one that should lose by 28 at home.

After the loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers eight days ago, their offensive coordinator, Bruce Arians, said the Steelers noticed the Browns like to blitz the safeties on first and second down. If you protect, Arians said, you can make big plays by running guys through the vacated area.

Guess what the Packers did in the first quarter? It saw safety Abram Elam blitz, then sent Donald Driver to Elam's area for a 71-yard touchdown that featured yet more missed tackles.

The players can say they're playing hard for their coach.

The evidence isn't there.

The Browns can keep hoping that things will get better and the ''foundation'' is being built.

If they do, they're fooling themselves.

It's difficult and painful to admit a mistake, but coaches have been replaced sooner.

The Browns and owner Randy Lerner need to start considering this possibility. Seriously.

Is it fair to Mangini? Probably not. He's trying, he's working. He doesn't want to lose. But it's not working. The Browns could win next Sunday, yes, but what does that make them? Two-and-six.

And is it any less fair than it was to Quinn to have 10 quarters to prove himself? Mangini wanted this system where he decides personnel. It's his show, and his record.

Most important, though, is perpetuating this situation fair to the fans who have to watch this nonsense week after week after week? To give them this kind of effort and play after they've spent so much of their hard-earned money?

If the Browns think they have problems now, wait until December, when it's cold, and 25,000 are in the stands and games are blacked out locally. And wait until they start selling tickets for 2010.

The only thing worse than making a mistake is not admitting it.

Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake.

The Browns' defense has been terrible all season, but coordinator Rob Ryan might be able to reach the players in a way Mangini hasn't. He's done nothing to earn the job, except be the best option on the staff to be an interim.

Heck, it can't be worse.

It's a tough decision for Lerner, because he personally hired Mangini. But this team has gotten worse — in every way — and there's no evidence short of a 6-3 win in Buffalo that the team believes in what it's being told.

Nor is there a shred of evidence that it will get better.

The time has come to recognize a mistake, make a tough decision and start over again next season. It's another restart and that's one more too many, but maybe it will produce better results and some long-lost continuity.

What's taking place is simply not working.
McManamon says a lot of things based on emotion. Let me paraphrase... "They look bad; fire the coach.""It's not working." Did anyone expect that simply replacing the coach would be a magical elixir? Seriously? The team lacks talent all over.

"Brady Quinn didn't get a real chance." He's been with the team long enough to show his ability, during games and in practice. If he was a superstar, it would show by now. That being said, QB is just one of a myriad of problems. Bring in Peyton Manning & the Browns still allow huge points to GB.

"Rob Ryan should be coach." Yup. There's that magical elixir just waiting for us. He calls the blitz that GB smoked & so earns a promotion.

"Continuing a mistake ''just because'' only compounds the mistake." Derailing a long term effort to build a quality program because you want impossible immediate results and your emotions have taken over is a much better course of action.
Agree with you on Pat Mac's style.I'd be completely shocked if Lerner made the decision to cut bait on Mangini after 1 season, but with the way they are playing it's hard not to think that we'll be hiring a new head coach within the next 3-4 years. Having inferior talent is one thing, these guys look like they're quitting out there.
Very few of the players on the field look like professional football players.Jamarcus Russel's QB rating is 16% higher than DA's right now.

 
This led me to wonder who is the QB coach for these guys. Carl Smith. I wonder if he just says "eff it," and stays drunk all the time, like Morris Buttermaker.

 
Not trying to beat a dead horse but the Browns are mailing it in once again this year. Mangenious has not proven to me that he is a viable NFL coach. Removing a 2nd year QB after 10 quarters is pretty ballsy, and DA just curls up in a ball and dies on the field. Another oppurtunity for a high draft pick is the only positive for this miserable franchise.

 

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