**Buffalo at Baltimore** (+3) (51) (1 Viewer)

[Grigs Allmoon]

Did Singletary go down in purpose there?

I think it was more 'keep two hands on the ball and DONT fumble' than going down on purpose.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Well that was sure exciting. These last two weeks have taken a couple of years off my life.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Well that was sure exciting. These last two weeks have taken a couple of years off my life.

Oof. Gunna make it through the season?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Well that was sure exciting. These last two weeks have taken a couple of years off my life.

Oof. Gunna make it through the season?

Yes, because we're going to blow everybody out from now on

 

[Bracie Smathers]

ESPN Stats & Info
@ESPNStatsInfo
The Ravens led by 17 points over the Bills today. In Week 2, the Ravens had a 21-point lead against the Dolphins. They lost both games.
The Ravens join the 2011 Vikings as the only teams to lose multiple games after leading by 17+ within their first 4 games.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I dozed off and missed the end of this game , but nice work by the Bills. That has to be huge for their confidence going forward in close games.

 

[lod001]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

I'm seeing a ton of criticism towards Harbaugh's call to go for it on 4th at the end of the game.

I would have kicked the FG, but I really think the call was too close to criticize. I can totally see the argument of going for it. After all the Bills drove down and could have easily scored a TD on that last drive.

Anyway, I think the call is being unfairly scrutinized. I saw someone on one of these half time shows suggesting the Raven's players might be losing faith in Harbaugh because of that call. That is BS IMO.

 

[Ghost Rider]

The analytics crowd will defend the decision, but it was a bad one. It was a 20-20 game, not a 42-42 game, so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you. Take the lead and trust your defense. I think it also didn't help that Lamar screwed it up by throwing the horrible pick, as I am sure the decision was made with the thinking that if we don't get it, we at least have them backed up inside the 5. Lamar's pick changed that.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Bills fandom aside, I liked the decision to go for it. If you fail, they're at their own 2 (of course, assuming Lamar doesn't throw a pick). You just spent like 8 minutes marching down the field like 95 yards and the Bills offense has woken up. You've got an MVP QB, put the ball in his hands. I wouldn't really have faulted him for taking the FG, but if the roles were flipped and it was the Bills, my gut feeling is to go for it. I know I've spent many years railing on teams that they need to go for it more often in these threads, though.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Bills fandom aside, I liked the decision to go for it. If you fail, they're at their own 2 (of course, assuming Lamar doesn't throw a pick). You just spent like 8 minutes marching down the field like 95 yards and the Bills offense has woken up. You've got an MVP QB, put the ball in his hands. I wouldn't really have faulted him for taking the FG, but if the roles were flipped and it was the Bills, my gut feeling is to go for it. I know I've spent many years railing on teams that they need to go for it more often in these threads, though.

Comments like yours are very reasonable. That's exactly why I don't have an issue with the call, and I wouldn't have an issue if they chose to kick. This was a very close one...

 

[Ghost Rider]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

That is fine, but games are not played on paper. I rarely agree with these analytic takes, as they act like the game is played on paper instead of by humans on the field.

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

Right, because the Bills have been so great in close games the last year and change, eh?

 

[GroveDiesel]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

That is fine, but games are not played on paper. I rarely agree with these analytic takes, as they act like the game is played on paper instead of by humans on the field.

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

Right, because the Bills have been so great in close games the last year and change, eh?

The close games thing is and was a dumb narrative. Such a small sample size. Any idea what Buffalo’s record was in one score games the previous 2 years was before their streak of losses was in one score games? I’m guessing you don’t or you’d realize how dumb the one score thing was.

I think we also saw exactly why the Ravens made the choice they made. Buffalo immediately marched down the field and could have certainly scored a TD to win. At worst the decision to go for it was a coin flip. Buffalo had all the momentum and Baltimore had been shut out in the 2nd half to that point. Poyer simply made a fantastic play.

 

[Phantom Knight]

ESPN Stats & Info
@ESPNStatsInfo
The Ravens led by 17 points over the Bills today. In Week 2, the Ravens had a 21-point lead against the Dolphins. They lost both games.
The Ravens join the 2011 Vikings as the only teams to lose multiple games after leading by 17+ within their first 4 games.

Once again, the Ravens forgot to report for the second half. Amazing(ly awful).

 

[lod001]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

Exactly. Analytics is proving to be a complete failure. Already this year we are somewhere around 3 or more games lost due to going for it on 4th down instead of taking 3 points. Harbug loses a game almost every year because of the ignorance of analytics instead of coaching. He can blame analytics I guess for his failures.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

That is fine, but games are not played on paper. I rarely agree with these analytic takes, as they act like the game is played on paper instead of by humans on the field.

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

Right, because the Bills have been so great in close games the last year and change, eh?

The close games thing is and was a dumb narrative. Such a small sample size. Any idea what Buffalo’s record was in one score games the previous 2 years was before their streak of losses was in one score games? I’m guessing you don’t or you’d realize how dumb the one score thing was.

I think we also saw exactly why the Ravens made the choice they made. Buffalo immediately marched down the field and could have certainly scored a TD to win. At worst the decision to go for it was a coin flip. Buffalo had all the momentum and Baltimore had been shut out in the 2nd half to that point. Poyer simply made a fantastic play.

Call it a small sample size, but the Bills, like it or not, had not won a one-score game since 2020 until today. That is a fact. They are awesome at blowing teams out, but when it is nip and tuck, they aren't so big and bad. That is why the Ravens should have taken the 3 and trusted their D to stop an offense that scored 17 last week despite running like 399 plays and had only 20 today. The Bills going down the field for a score was no sure thing, and this idea that they could have just taken the TD at the end if they wanted it, rendering the Ravens 3 useless ultimately, is fiction. if the Bills are so automatic at scoring whenever they want, why did the offense fail twice in the last three minutes last week against Miami when that game was there for the taking?

 

[Phantom Knight]

The analytics crowd will defend the decision, but it was a bad one. It was a 20-20 game, not a 42-42 game, so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you. Take the lead and trust your defense. I think it also didn't help that Lamar screwed it up by throwing the horrible pick, as I am sure the decision was made with the thinking that if we don't get it, we at least have them backed up inside the 5. Lamar's pick changed that.

I agree that they should have kicked. Get the "sure" 3 and put the pressure on the Bills to HAVE to score on their first drive. That is my opinion. I also say that it is a shame (for Baltimore) that they could not give Lamar any time. He was under a lot of duress and it is easy to see why he did not see the defender closing rapidly from the middle of the field. Of course we'll never know, but anything except an interception there might have led to a different outcome in the game.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Of course we'll never know, but anything except an interception there might have led to a different outcome in the game.

Absolutely, I think the Bills playcalling changes significantly if it's a drive start at their own 2 rather than the 20. They probably come out much more conservative, and much more likely to go 3-and-out and give you the ball right back. That's part of the reason why I liked the decision to go for it. The INT was a minuscule possibility that happened.

 

[scoobus]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

That is fine, but games are not played on paper. I rarely agree with these analytic takes, as they act like the game is played on paper instead of by humans on the field.

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

Right, because the Bills have been so great in close games the last year and change, eh?

The close games thing is and was a dumb narrative. Such a small sample size. Any idea what Buffalo’s record was in one score games the previous 2 years was before their streak of losses was in one score games? I’m guessing you don’t or you’d realize how dumb the one score thing was.

I think we also saw exactly why the Ravens made the choice they made. Buffalo immediately marched down the field and could have certainly scored a TD to win. At worst the decision to go for it was a coin flip. Buffalo had all the momentum and Baltimore had been shut out in the 2nd half to that point. Poyer simply made a fantastic play.

Call it a small sample size, but the Bills, like it or not, had not won a one-score game since 2020 until today. That is a fact. They are awesome at blowing teams out, but when it is nip and tuck, they aren't so big and bad. That is why the Ravens should have taken the 3 and trusted their D to stop an offense that scored 17 last week despite running like 399 plays and had only 20 today. The Bills going down the field for a score was no sure thing, and this idea that they could have just taken the TD at the end if they wanted it, rendering the Ravens 3 useless ultimately, is fiction. if the Bills are so automatic at scoring whenever they want, why did the offense fail twice in the last three minutes last week against Miami when that game was there for the taking?

Holy straw man

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Stupid Harbug does it again, losing because he goes for it on 4th down when he has a sure thing 3 points.

Harbaugh made the right call. The Bills could have had a TD at the end of the game if they wanted it.

Another way to put it is that I was hoping Harbaugh would kick the FG and was anxious when he went for it. So he was probably right to go for it.

4th Down Decision Bot says Ravens had a 2% greater chance to win by going for it versus kicking the FG.

Does that 4th down decision bot take into account quality of offense and defense for both teams, game flow, momentum, etc.? The problem with analytics is they base the numbers on all things being equal without taking into account the above factors. It sure feels like more games are lost then won these days because of overreliance of analytics, but I am sure these coaches sleep better at night knowing the numbers said they were right.

That one does not, but Next Gen Stats’ Decision Guide does take into account quite a lot of that data and it also recommended the Ravens go for it.

That is fine, but games are not played on paper. I rarely agree with these analytic takes, as they act like the game is played on paper instead of by humans on the field.

...so you cannot just assume the Bills will go down the field on you.

If you don't, you haven't been paying attention to the Bills offense the past year or two.

Right, because the Bills have been so great in close games the last year and change, eh?

Oof

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I would have kicked there, but here's a couple of things to consider:

1. Harbaugh can say he trusted his defense all he wants in his post-game press conference, but I don't think he trusted them at the end of that game and that's why he went for it. Baltimore's D had been getting gashed the whole 2nd half.
2. Duvernay was wide open in the corner of the EZ. Lamar said after the game he didn't see him until late because of the Bills defender in his face was blocking him. Mike Davis was open on the other side, but Jackson apparently never looked his way.

All of the attention is going to be on that call but Baltimore was on its way to losing the game well before that.

Patrick Queen's INT drop in the 2nd quarter was probably the biggest play of the entire game. This wasn't a hard play - the ball hit him in the hands and chest. Had he held onto it, Baltimore runs out the half (or scores again) and the Bills DON'T score there. Then the Ravens get the ball first in the 2nd half and things may have gone much differently.

Buffalo's defense did a really good job in the 2nd half of adjusting to whatever the Ravens were doing in the 1st. I don't know if they figured out the blocking schemes or what, but they were routinely blowing up the pocket and shutting down running lanes until the Ravens last drive.

Penalties killed the Ravens. I'm not blaming the refs, like I've seen a lot of fans do - though I thought the late PF call on Brandon Stephens was bad. The Andrews OPI was ticky-tack, but letter-of-the-law. The rest seemed well-earned to me.

Singletary made a great decision by going to the ground. The Ravens had talked in the huddle about either stripping the ball or letting him score. So, when Oweh tried to take the ball away, Singletary fell to the ground like he was shot. You could see Calais Campbell and some other defenders visibly upset with Oweh for allowing that to happen. Odds were the Ravens probably wouldn't have scored to tie, but there was something like 1:45 left (not sure how many TOs they had left) so they would have had a chance.