BYU/Duke Volleyball race hoax (1 Viewer)

[FairWarning]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

The California state schools were the leaders. The SLC market is a good sized marked, may be bigger than Portland actually.

The problem at this point is that BYU adds literally nothing in TV market, as the Pac-12 already has Utah. If the Utah TV market is attractive enough, BYU might latch on to the Big-12, but they don't bring anything additional to the Pac-12. It's kind of similar to the B1G not needing, say, Virginia when they already have the DC market by virtue of Maryland.

That’s a big reason ND isn’t in the conference - from the conference POV. Before the TV deals though, there were teams in the PAC-12 who wanted not part of the Mormons in the conference.

 

[Rubiobot]

LOL...so everyone thinks Canada is a shining example of multiculturism and tolerance.....the truth is minorities in Canada fair worse in Canada than African Americans do. For instance, Canada's largest minority is their Aboriginal population. In virtually every category Canada aboriginal population is far worse off than African Americans....much higher incarceration rates...much lower life expectancy....much higher murder rate...higher infant mortality rate....higher drop out rate....lower income.....oh Canada is great....what a load.

Why would compare that group to African Americans and not Native Americans? Seems weird.

Consider the source.

 

[parasaurolophus]

The South, where I think most people would argue was where the more racist actions occured

Racism is more than just visible actions.

The population of Finland today is 5.5 million with over 95% white and less than 2% black.

So being white in Finland is more normal, more "right". One would be less likely to interact with very many blacks to come to the conclusion that they are just people. Seems to me that this should lead to more racism rather than less. Earlier in this thread I offered speculation that counters this - racism is a pattern matching skill learned early, but absent that it seems like common sense that being more concentrated as a single race the more likely skin colors leads to value judgments based on only skin color.

That doesn't really make any sense though since most of the countries on that list aren't exactly crushing it in the diversity column.

When surveyed most people don't complain about people of other races, something that the survey admitted was an issue. So one of the more vocal respondents would be people of the other races that have experienced racism or perceived racism.

An incredibly low % surveyed would lead to an incredibly low % of negative survey hits.

 

[rustycolts]

Not sure what you are asking me. Last school to desegregate was 2016. I was high and I don't know what I was getting at with part #2 I was

Man I could not believe that. I had to look it up. We desegregated in Orange County FL when I was kid in the 7th grade 1968.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Not sure what you are asking me. Last school to desegregate was 2016. I was high and I don't know what I was getting at with part #2 I was

Man I could not believe that. I had to look it up. We desegregated in Orange County FL when I was kid in the 7th grade 1968.

Whoooa- you were alive in '68??

It is a wild stat, and I didn't believe it at first either.

 

[rockaction]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

 

[djmich]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Glad you’re still around rock, thought you might have joined Ivan in exile.

 

[rockaction]

Yep. Seems like we're trying to rewrite history through the use of de facto segregation as a form of segregation.

I'm not going to argue this since I'm not about to waste time arguing nonsense.

 

[rockaction]

Glad you’re still around rock, thought you might have joined Ivan in exile

Thanks, djmich. I was bored last night, read this, and figured something was up in education. I was right. We're not teaching desegregation anymore in terms of law, we're teaching in terms of effect.

I have no desire to fight these battles on a stupid message board.

KarmaPolice is just wrong.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Damn, what's up your ***?

 

[rockaction]

Damn, what's up your ***?

Misinfirmation like people saying schools weren't desegregated by law in 1954.

 

[djmich]

Glad you’re still around rock, thought you might have joined Ivan in exile

Thanks, djmich. I was bored last night, read this, and figured something was up in education. I was right. We're not teaching desegregation anymore in terms of law, we're teaching in terms of effect.

I have no desire to fight these battles on a stupid message board.

KarmaPolice is just wrong.

I hear ya (in general)

 

[rockaction]

it's not you, it's the crap you're reading and how you've been instructed to read it and believe it that's getting me.

I didn't know we'd just up and changed the definition of segregation and desegregation on an academic whim.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Look, last night I was thinking about it and the 150 years cutoff somebody posted last night. I remember reading years ago that the last school after judgement was passed to combine schools did so in 2016. Last night I quick google searched, saw the 2016 listed right away and rolled with it.

Feel free to counter with how the term was used incorrectly, where I am wrong, etc. I didn't re-read any articles and am not confident on those details. Just thought your reaction was funny and I had a teen movie flashback for a second.

 

[KarmaPolice]

How about a "real" history book recommendation for after I finish my lefty claptrap?

 

[rustycolts]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Maybe it is ? I don't know but if true shocking if true. The article stated 2 communities separated east and west . Probably 2 schools and neither community wanted to give up there school kind of Like Friday Night Lights?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Maybe it is ? I don't know but if true shocking if true. The article stated 2 communities separated east and west . Probably 2 schools and neither community wanted to give up there school kind of Like Friday Night Lights?

The Cleveland School District was racially segregated for five decades, split into two schools, Cleveland High School that was attended by white students, and East Side High School attended by black students. For decades attempts were made to desegregate schools and unify them; however, it turned out to be extremely hard to do.

Whenever a court ruling was made that allowed the school to be desegregated, there was another law that would stop it. Most of the time, it was tied to the place of residence, and schools continued to remain segregated. With time, even the faculty in these schools was not distributed by race anymore, so the students were encouraged to try and transfer between schools, but it was all to no avail, the schools remained segregated.

This was deeply ingrained into the core of the society living in Cleveland, Mississippi. This finally ended in 2016, when it was decided that the schools would merge, and thus end the era of segregation in this small town. The schools merged in 2017 and created Cleveland Central High School.


If it's not desegregation, cool. I was still surprised by these details, but I am not a lawyer so fully possible I am not wrapping my head around something. Again, my point was more that in general this stuff didn't stop with slavery, and my guess was that we could find countries or societies that probably got past this stuff before we did - pushing back on the idea that we are the least racist society ever. Of course I was using our collective histories when thinking about it and maybe others are talking 2022 only, which I still think saying one of the 194 countries might be better than us in this area isn't a stretch.

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, I have no desire to debate this or to look up articles and point out where definitions are wrong, or different, or what have you.

If they're teaching this, it wasn't what I was taught over not only the course of my life, but in Con Law in law school also. Nobody reputable will tell you that "segregated high schools" ended in 2016. The communities may have drawn district lines that ensured that mostly white populations would go to school with white populations, but there is no way that blacks weren't allowed to go to school in the communities they lived in. That would be the grossest violation of federal law I can think of, and that's the formerly accepted definition of a "segregated" public school.

That we've moved into "de facto" segregation, or any other usage of the word "segregation" is a change in the formerly used definition. Is that more or less accurate? I don't think it is, but everybody's mileage may vary. But it certainly blurs the lines of what we mean when we speak of "segregation" in the meaningful sense.

In a way, our whole conversation (brief though it may be) is what the activists want. They seek to change the definition of a formerly settled concept. They seek to change the definition of a word (or say, an entire concept like "sex") an then they want you to go through the rigamarole of debating why the former concept was correct and what it means, and does it really apply in all cases, etc.

I have neither the time nor inclination to debate it any longer. But just so you know, if you're ever taking a test, "segregation," not de facto segregation, ended in 1954 with Brown.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Cool, back to the original intent of my comment then - can we find countries and societies that ended segregation before we did? If yes, then that might be a point of interest if we were talking about racist societies and how we fit in the discussion.

 

[Boston]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

The California state schools were the leaders. The SLC market is a good sized marked, may be bigger than Portland actually.

The problem at this point is that BYU adds literally nothing in TV market, as the Pac-12 already has Utah. If the Utah TV market is attractive enough, BYU might latch on to the Big-12, but they don't bring anything additional to the Pac-12. It's kind of similar to the B1G not needing, say, Virginia when they already have the DC market by virtue of Maryland.

They have already been added to the Big 12 for the 23/24 season.

 

[FairWarning]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

The California state schools were the leaders. The SLC market is a good sized marked, may be bigger than Portland actually.

The problem at this point is that BYU adds literally nothing in TV market, as the Pac-12 already has Utah. If the Utah TV market is attractive enough, BYU might latch on to the Big-12, but they don't bring anything additional to the Pac-12. It's kind of similar to the B1G not needing, say, Virginia when they already have the DC market by virtue of Maryland.

They have already been added to the Big 12 for the 23/24 season.

I know that, was referring to them in the past.

 

[rockaction]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

Unreal. Did you have on pajamas while sipping tea from a souvenir coffee mug that says "I ****ing love science" on it?

 

[Caveman33]

Cool, back to the original intent of my comment then - can we find countries and societies that ended segregation before we did? If yes, then that might be a point of interest if we were talking about racist societies and how we fit in the discussion.

If we are to use the date of desegregation as the measure of racism in the present then we will always rank behind whichever countries desegregated before us.

The town of Cleveland Mississippi having two high schools in close proximity certainly seems like a relic from segregation. in 2016, the East high school was nearly all black while the West high school was 60% black and 40% white.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Yes, just like when the ACA passed 330 million Americans instantly had health coverage

 

[Navin Johnson]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Maybe it is ? I don't know but if true shocking if true. The article stated 2 communities separated east and west . Probably 2 schools and neither community wanted to give up there school kind of Like Friday Night Lights?

I IRC, in FNL, it was two white high schools arguing over which one would absorb the minority school.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

Unreal. Did you have on pajamas while sipping tea from a souvenir coffee mug that says "I ****ing love science" on it?

Nope. In the car as my kid was at soccer. I would assume my standard attire of jeans/Opeth T/Mariners cap was being worn, and either water or an ill-advised energy drink was being consumed.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

They are going to the big 12 next year. The reason they were excluded for years is they won’t play games on Sunday’s.

 

[Boston]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

They are going to the big 12 next year. The reason they were excluded for years is they won’t play games on Sunday’s.

That and they are also intimidated by how well their Cougar mascot can dance.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Cool, back to the original intent of my comment then - can we find countries and societies that ended segregation before we did? If yes, then that might be a point of interest if we were talking about racist societies and how we fit in the discussion.

If we are to use the date of desegregation as the measure of racism in the present then we will always rank behind whichever countries desegregated before us.

The town of Cleveland Mississippi having two high schools in close proximity certainly seems like a relic from segregation. in 2016, the East high school was nearly all black while the West high school was 60% black and 40% white.

I wasn't suggesting it being the only metric. I was just attempting to make a point that somehow got out of hand. It happens.

 

[FairWarning]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

Unreal. Did you have on pajamas while sipping tea from a souvenir coffee mug that says "I ****ing love science" on it?

Nope. In the car as my kid was at soccer. I would assume my standard attire of jeans/Opeth T/Mariners cap was being worn, and either water or an ill-advised energy drink was being consumed.

What energy drink is Ill-advised?

 

[FairWarning]

Not a shock actually. The liberal state schools in the conference want no part of BYU in the PAC 12 because of their religious stances.

I think BYU's exclusion from a Power-5 conference has a lot more to do with TV markets than anything else. TV rules everything in terms of Power-5 conference invitation (just ask UCONN).

They are going to the big 12 next year. The reason they were excluded for years is they won’t play games on Sunday’s.

Also their stance on abortion.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

Unreal. Did you have on pajamas while sipping tea from a souvenir coffee mug that says "I ****ing love science" on it?

Nope. In the car as my kid was at soccer. I would assume my standard attire of jeans/Opeth T/Mariners cap was being worn, and either water or an ill-advised energy drink was being consumed.

What energy drink is Ill-advised?

Talking for me - trying to drink them less, but I think last night I was tired and had one, but I'm not sure.

 

[jon_mx]

LOL...so everyone thinks Canada is a shining example of multiculturism and tolerance.....the truth is minorities in Canada fair worse in Canada than African Americans do. For instance, Canada's largest minority is their Aboriginal population. In virtually every category Canada aboriginal population is far worse off than African Americans....much higher incarceration rates...much lower life expectancy....much higher murder rate...higher infant mortality rate....higher drop out rate....lower income.....oh Canada is great....what a load.

Why would compare that group to African Americans and not Native Americans? Seems weird.

I would think treating all people well would be part of a society being tolerant. Canada people are no shining example of tolerance. Just because they don't have the large poor inner cities the US has to comtent with does not make them superior. I would match US citizens against any other in similar circumstances. Most these so-called tolerant societies aren't nearly as good as they seem. They don't have our media beating the drums or the populations to deal with.

 

[Rich Conway]

What energy drink is Ill-advised?

All the ones with a ****-ton of sugar.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Another story with regard to the incident at the BYU/Oregon game which doesn't appear to be getting much attention...or definitely not near the attention that the BYU/Duke story got,

Mormon Recruit Left BYU-Oregon Game Early After Disrespectful Cha

TC Manumaleuna II, a Mormon college football recruit, left the BYU-Oregon game early after Ducks fans chanted 'f-ck the Mormons.'

www.outkick.com

Well there is no denying the religious slurs being yelled as it was recorded.

Change the word "Mormons to muslims" in the chant and then you have a national story.

Surprised as Oregon leans left and nobody tried to step in to stop the hate filled chants and intolerance by the students. Hope the University has offered up apologies to the kid and his family.

 

[Navin Johnson]

The funniest thing was I was listening to Chap. 2 of People's History of the US as I was reading that.

Unreal. Did you have on pajamas while sipping tea from a souvenir coffee mug that says "I ****ing love science" on it?

Nope. In the car as my kid was at soccer. I would assume my standard attire of jeans/Opeth T/Mariners cap was being worn, and either water or an ill-advised energy drink was being consumed.

What energy drink is Ill-advised?

Talking for me - trying to drink them less, but I think last night I was tired and had one, but I'm not sure.

The Monster Rehab lemon ice teas are delicious

 

[jon_mx]

The leftist media jumps at covering fake claims of racist acts, but ignores real acts of bigotry.​

Oregon high school football recruit left game at halftime amid 'f--- the Mormons' chants | Fox News

An Oregon high school football recruit left the Ducks-BYU game at halftime after "F--- the Mormons" chants rang out across the stadium.

www.foxnews.com

 

[FairWarning]

That should make Oregon’s recruiting much easier. Good luck getting some Mormons to visit.

 

[Summer Wheat]

The leftist media jumps at covering fake claims of racist acts, but ignores real acts of bigotry.​

Oregon high school football recruit left game at halftime amid 'f--- the Mormons' chants | Fox News

An Oregon high school football recruit left the Ducks-BYU game at halftime after "F--- the Mormons" chants rang out across the stadium.

www.foxnews.com

Replace Mormons with Muslims and we got a national news story.

 

[timschochet]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Rock rock rock…this is poor history.

The Brown decision recognized that desegregation could not happen overnight. That’s why the phrase “with all deliberate speed” was used. And even so it took decades to achieve that goal. Your argument that it was illegal immediately after 1954 is completely inaccurate. Brown set up desegregation as a goal.

 

[jon_mx]

Last school to desegregate was 2016

That's impossible, unless someone is using a different definition of desegregation or the school was actively flouting federal law. The last desegregated school by law was in 1954, when Brown v. Board Of Education (1954) was handed down.

You need to read a real United States history book, not Howard Zinn or whatever other leftist claptrap you're reading.

Rock rock rock…this is poor history.

The Brown decision recognized that desegregation could not happen overnight. That’s why the phrase “with all deliberate speed” was used. And even so it took decades to achieve that goal. Your argument that it was illegal immediately after 1954 is completely inaccurate. Brown set up desegregation as a goal.

1954 ended the policy of segregation. Rock's statement was accurate. In practice neighborhoods are still segregated to this day....but this is decades after all legal bearers to neighborhoods and schools being integrated have been eliminated. Today's segregation is by choice. Many blacks have always lived in predominantly black neighborhoods and are uncomfortable moving away. Whether people are segregated or desegregated is a choice.

 

[rockaction]

Rock rock rock…this is poor history.

No way. Any other history is revisionist. Brown sent the national guard and federal marshalls to the communities to make sure they were integrated schools. I'm not getting into this here. Any other history is lacking in honesty.

 

[rockaction]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

 

[Boston]

Here are a few more examples of incidents where the MSM jumped to conclusions right away only to find out they were not true.

From Jussie Smollett to BYU, the media's history of peddling race hoaxes

The media has a long history of peddling racially-charged falsehoods from accusing Covington teen Nick Sandmann of racism to the "noose" allegedly found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

www.foxnews.com

 

[djmich]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

Yah but have you seen how white Beverly Hills high school still is!

 

[parasaurolophus]

Here are a few more examples of incidents where the MSM jumped to conclusions right away only to find out they were not true.

From Jussie Smollett to BYU, the media's history of peddling race hoaxes

The media has a long history of peddling racially-charged falsehoods from accusing Covington teen Nick Sandmann of racism to the "noose" allegedly found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

www.foxnews.com

Don't forget Althea Bernstein.

 

[Stealthycat]

Here are a few more examples of incidents where the MSM jumped to conclusions right away only to find out they were not true.

From Jussie Smollett to BYU, the media's history of peddling race hoaxes

The media has a long history of peddling racially-charged falsehoods from accusing Covington teen Nick Sandmann of racism to the "noose" allegedly found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

www.foxnews.com

I read that this morning

add Duke Lacrosse

 

[FairWarning]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

Yah but have you seen how white Beverly Hills high school still is!

I’m sure the parents have those cutsy signs in their yard about science and love is love,,,,

 

[Rubiobot]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.