BYU/Duke Volleyball race hoax (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

Yah but have you seen how white Beverly Hills high school still is!

Of course that's not my point. There's a different between my sons HS in rural WI being 95% white and having schools be told decades later through the court they have mix it up.

I was more making a point that our attitudes and conventions don't change because a law was handed down, and I'd guess other places don't have a similar history, or broke those attitudes sooner.

 

[djmich]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

Yah but have you seen how white Beverly Hills high school still is!

Of course that's not my point. There's a different between my sons HS in rural WI being 95% white and having schools be told decades later through the court they have mix it up.

I was more making a point that our attitudes and conventions don't change because a law was handed down, and I'd guess other places don't have a similar history, or broke those attitudes sooner.

I get it. I guess it’s hard when you have multiple people who are involved in a discussion because different people will read something differently or might even disagree with the obvious.

But I don’t think @rockaction (or I for that matter) needed clarification that Board didn’t magically change attitudes.

It’s kinda like adding more background checks to get a gun and then saying “you know people are still getting shot”. Okkk and then the argument becomes semantics and misdirected imo

 

[KarmaPolice]

This was stupid to even entertain this. This was a dumb comment followed by an almost sort of lecture by tim about poor history?

That's truly stupid. History means things. As you guys love to say, words mean things. Any law of segregation was struck down by Board. That's what desegregation means -- segregation by law. It's like apartheid. By law.

That's what it commonly means, was always what it commonly meant. Not in practice. By law.

Any other claim is ignorant, and the fact that people are daring to argue about it shows me how far our understanding of civics has fallen or been in the hands of activists.

And don't bother quoting me or tagging me. You're not "setting the record" straight or doing anything but bothering me and bothering history.

Yah but have you seen how white Beverly Hills high school still is!

Of course that's not my point. There's a different between my sons HS in rural WI being 95% white and having schools be told decades later through the court they have mix it up.

I was more making a point that our attitudes and conventions don't change because a law was handed down, and I'd guess other places don't have a similar history, or broke those attitudes sooner.

I get it. I guess it’s hard when you have multiple people who are involved in a discussion because different people will read something differently or might even disagree with the obvious.

But I don’t think @rockaction (or I for that matter) needed clarification that Board didn’t magically change attitudes.

It’s kinda like adding more background checks to get a gun and then saying “you know people are still getting shot”. Okkk and then the argument becomes semantics and misdirected imo

Sure, but I know you've also seen posts that are basically saying "X ended decades ago all is good", whi I guess is the idea I was pushing against.

At the end of the day, a perfect example of why this place goes south quickly. I'm making points against one you weren't making, instead of politely correcting or clarifying, we go into shots at libs and reading ability etc. And this happened with people I usually interact with well, and we probably agree on all of what we said at the core.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

Does that apply to police shootings, racism, etc...?

 

[FairWarning]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

18, 943.

Seriously, though - it's probably a good idea in general to keep in context real rates these things happen as we scream about grooming teachers, violent cops, dangerous illegals, school shootings, etc..

 

[FairWarning]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

18, 943.

Seriously, though - it's probably a good idea in general to keep in context real rates these things happen as we scream about grooming teachers, violent cops, dangerous illegals, school shootings, etc..

I guess what is a real rate then? Is one percent of police encounters going bad too high or low? How about rouge teachers, IDK? When we stack them over time, it adds up though.

 

[Zow]

Here are a few more examples of incidents where the MSM jumped to conclusions right away only to find out they were not true.

From Jussie Smollett to BYU, the media's history of peddling race hoaxes

The media has a long history of peddling racially-charged falsehoods from accusing Covington teen Nick Sandmann of racism to the "noose" allegedly found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

www.foxnews.com

I read that this morning

add Duke Lacrosse

I view that as a different event. That had the weight and backbone of a prosecutor zealously pitching inaccurate facts and filing actual charges. I find it very hard to blame the media in that situation.

 

[Battersbox]

Here are a few more examples of incidents where the MSM jumped to conclusions right away only to find out they were not true.

From Jussie Smollett to BYU, the media's history of peddling race hoaxes

The media has a long history of peddling racially-charged falsehoods from accusing Covington teen Nick Sandmann of racism to the "noose" allegedly found in Bubba Wallace's garage.

www.foxnews.com

I read that this morning

add Duke Lacrosse

I view that as a different event. That had the weight and backbone of a prosecutor zealously pitching inaccurate facts and filing actual charges. I find it very hard to blame the media in that situation.

That's a good point. That Nifong guy was gross. I hope he did real time.

 

[Stealthycat]

I view that as a different event. That had the weight and backbone of a prosecutor zealously pitching inaccurate facts and filing actual charges. I find it very hard to blame the media in that situation.

when media reports whatever is popular .... that's a problem IMO

report facts is much better

 

[Stealthycat]

That's a good point. That Nifong guy was gross. I hope he did real time.

Mike Nifong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he did 1 day

 

[Battersbox]

I view that as a different event. That had the weight and backbone of a prosecutor zealously pitching inaccurate facts and filing actual charges. I find it very hard to blame the media in that situation.

when media reports whatever is popular .... that's a problem IMO

report facts is much better

Of course. But at the time, they were reporting facts for the most part. All they could do was report what was released by the prosecutor's office. I don't think the media was at fault for not realizing how dirty Nifong was. And to be fair, once it became clear how gross he was they did report on it.

 

[Battersbox]

That's a good point. That Nifong guy was gross. I hope he did real time.

Mike Nifong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

he did 1 day

Wow. That's horrible.

How much time would those young men have done if he'd been successful in railroading them? Crazy.

 

[Stealthycat]

All they could do was report what was released by the prosecutor's office

they could have reported it as accusation

it was reported as guilty and hang em high .... and they haven't learned still (media)

but lets be honest - shock news sells .... and nothing sells more than a good racist story

 

[Zow]

I view that as a different event. That had the weight and backbone of a prosecutor zealously pitching inaccurate facts and filing actual charges. I find it very hard to blame the media in that situation.

when media reports whatever is popular .... that's a problem IMO

report facts is much better

You're missing the point. In that situation, the media was reporting was the actual prosecutor working the matter was saying. That is the "facts" as the media had access to them.

FWIW, and you can take my avowal here or leave it, but I've had the opportunity to sit down with one of the lead defense attorneys on the case at a conference and informally chat with him about it. While the primary topic was how the defense team used metadata and the students' electronic devices to create a timeline (it was so simple yet so brilliant), there was of course some informal comments made. While those were not kind to the prosecutor (with good reason), there wasn't much directed at the media.

 

[Battersbox]

All they could do was report what was released by the prosecutor's office

they could have reported it as accusation

it was reported as guilty and hang em high .... and they haven't learned still (media)

but lets be honest - shock news sells .... and nothing sells more than a good racist story

I remember this well. I agree there was plenty of reporting which was slanted at the time. I was just agreeing with Woz that that instance was different considering the weight of the DA's office was lending credibility to the allegations with official charges. In many of these other instances, the media has run with a narrative with far weaker evidence.
Perhaps the Duke Lacrosse case was the grandaddy of all this, who knows.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

18, 943.

Seriously, though - it's probably a good idea in general to keep in context real rates these things happen as we scream about grooming teachers, violent cops, dangerous illegals, school shootings, etc..

I guess what is a real rate then? Is one percent of police encounters going bad too high or low? How about rouge teachers, IDK? When we stack them over time, it adds up though.

I guess at the end of the day, everyone has their own threshold of acceptance. I don't have a hard number in mind. For me it's different if we were talking life and death vs encountering ideas though.

Yes it adds up, though.

 

[FairWarning]

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

18, 943.

Seriously, though - it's probably a good idea in general to keep in context real rates these things happen as we scream about grooming teachers, violent cops, dangerous illegals, school shootings, etc..

I guess what is a real rate then? Is one percent of police encounters going bad too high or low? How about rouge teachers, IDK? When we stack them over time, it adds up rjough

Keep adding isolated incidents and claiming it's a common thing.

How many do we need?

18, 943.

Seriously, though - it's probably a good idea in general to keep in context real rates these things happen as we scream about grooming teachers, violent cops, dangerous illegals, school shootings, etc..

I guess what is a real rate then? Is one percent of police encounters going bad too high or low? How about rouge teachers, IDK? When we stack them over time, it adds up though.

I guess at the end of the day, everyone has their own threshold of acceptance. I don't have a hard number in mind. For me it's different if we were talking life and death vs encountering ideas though.

Yes it adds up, though.

most likely for you and I, it’s when big city problems move to small towns.