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Cable Companies / NFL Network (1 Viewer)

Who do you feel is at fault over this ordeal?

  • Cable Companies.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NFL Network.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Both.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
I don't get it. At the beginning of the year I had Comcast(cable) and got the NFL Network. I switched to Direct TV and still had the NFLN. Last night I was at my folks house who have Dish and they have the NFLN. Is this only about other cable providers like TW etc.?
It's about the simple fact that many folks have missed and will continue to be denied NFL games (and even some bowls now) because of the "dispute" THIS year. Left unresolved, the potential for even more football to be off the general viewing table for the 2007 season is indeed possible. If you have Dish or the ticket, it's not really an issue. Some can't or refuse to go that route. As such, the poll question is just trying to get a feel about where the masses think the overall problem lies as opposed to promoting / slamming any individual organization.
 
If the NFL had raised their rate OR asked to be included on basic then I would blame the cable companies, but to demand BOTH is over the top and they are 100% at fault in my mind. I've heard that 70 cents would make it the 4th highest priced channel (I'm assuming behind abc, cbs, and nbc). For a channel thats only usefull 4 months a year, thats just crazy.

Personally, I'd prefer to be allowed to pick my own channels and to not have to support all these local access, spanish, and home shopping channels.

 
If you own a house and you haven't gone to DTV, yet, then you really have no place to complain about this. There is absolutely no reason to have cable TV, anymore, unless your hand is forced by the apartment you live in.
DTV doesn't have high def local channels or high speed innernets.
 
Cable / NFLN Stalemate

Who do you feel is at fault over this ordeal?

Cable Companies. [ 58 ] [32.22%]

NFL Network. [ 66 ] [36.67%]

Both. [ 56 ] [31.11%]

Total Votes: 180

Bump because of the looming & rather important NYG / WAS game later this evening!

To those who have voted, many thanks again! For those who have yet to chime in, please do... Interesting that NFLN has pretty much been the front-runner outta the blocks!

Also wondering if there are any comments over this "NFL Network Freeview" (in what looks to be mostly TX)...

:)

 
Final bump with the last NFLN pro-game of the season in progress... Thanks!

Cable Companies. [ 60 ] [32.79%]

NFL Network. [ 67 ] [36.61%]

Both. [ 56 ] [30.60%]

 
While I believe both are to blame, I voted cable companies because I think they are more disingenuous about their position. The fact that they suddenly want to be responsive to the request for something akin to a la carte pricing for just this one network is...intriguing. Especially when they don't actually want to offer it a la carte. The fact is, that they know they could put it into their sports tier and increase the number of people who suddenly have to pay for NBATV and Speedvision and the Bowling network and seven channels of international soccer at $20 a pop just to see some football games is anything but saving the consumer money. They just think they can get a lot more revenue putting it in an add-on package where they can jack up the price instead of just passing on a $0.70 increase to customers. At least the NFL is upfront in saying they want it to be widely available and what their objectives are.

The thing I can't figure out is why the NFL is taking the hard line right out of the box. I'm surprised they don't go with a model of offering it cheap to get it put on basic cable and build market share, then jacking up the price once they've got people hooked. It's a lot harder for the cable co's to take something away than to never give it at all.
Exactly. I side with the NFL. If the cable companies wanted to give us the NFL channel as the sole NFL channel a la carte, and I had to pay a dollar a month for it, so the cable companies are making a 30% margin, or even $1.50, I'm fine with it. I just don't care to have it bundled, and have to pay for a bunch of other crap that I don't care for. The cable companies are arguind for something here, forcing you to pay for something you don't want, at the same time they're arguing against it, by arguing against the NFL channel on the basic tier. I personally am against the premium tiers on principle, becaus ethey fly in the face of the countless channels I am forced to buy at any level. I think a la care TV has to come into play, and let the consumers make the decisions on what channels survive. If you can't get subscribers, you fail. That's business.

As for the long run of this debate, it may take a few years, but the NFL will win, because they always do. They own the games, and the cable broadcasters will have to give in. In the long run, I see the NFL putting more games on their own network, and taking the advertising revenue directly. Why? Why take a contract for the games from a network, and receive a cut of the revenue, when they can have it all by selling direct? When they're on the cable boxes, they'll have access to as many eyes as ESPN. Not next year, but give it five years, and they'll probably have a full seasons slate of games on the NFL network to supplement the currenty set up. It is a business, but it's a very well run business that finds ways to extract value from their product.

I side with the NFL, because it's their product. It's up to them to decide whter and how it's marketed. Bottom line. I applaud them for sticking to their guns. I applaud them for recognizing that it's largely a blue collar sport and many fans would not pay the noney for the premium package. They'll extract money other ways. But in this instance, they did look out for the fan.

 
Both but cable companies have said carrying it would cost an extra 70 cents per subscriber. :D They could cut a useless channel or raise prices 70 cents but have decided to screw customers instead.Never for a second do i regret switching to satellite.
You know what, how about everyone who has cable sends me 70 cents for me to create a cable station where I dance in a dress all day. I'll be happy to do it for that money, and since it's only 70 cents you should be happy to pay it even though you won't watch that channel!Going by your logic everyone should be paying to subsidize you watching the NFL. Note that up until now no one had to pay that 70 cents at all because the NFL games are on network television. This is just a move by the NFL to monopolize the market even more and drain more money from you. But #### it, it's the cable companies that are wrong and the NFL should be allowed to squeeze people as much as possible because the people who are being squeezed are too busy drooling into a bag of potato chips to even realize they are being screwed.
You're entirely missing the point. The cable companies don't care about you and the $.70. In fact, they want to lump the NFL network with other channels, and force you to buy them channels, even if you don't want to watch them, and charge you far and beyond the $.70. As for the $.70. How many channels do you think you pay for now that you don't watch at any tier? You don't get to pick and choose what channels you watch. My cable is $80/ month, and that's a whole lot of $.70 charges put together, plus a little margin. Why? Because they bundle a whole bunch of channels that they buy, than nobody would ever subscribe to, with other channels, like the networks, ESPN, etc, to sell the package. This should bring the whole a la carte debate to life, and cable bills should be going down. I typically want to watch about 30-40 channels, but have access to 140. And, I'm paying a lot of access fees for a lot that I don't want to. Please, understand the economics of the business, and not just address this one issue like it is taking place ina vacuum. The NFL Network is no different than any other channel. It's just playing out largely, because it's the most popular sport in America. People want the channel. Marketers got paid a lot of money to frame the argument so that you would swallow it the way you did. But, please understand the whole business, instead of getting angry at the NFL Netwrok for doing what ESPN, NBC, ABC, CBS, Discovery or any other channel is doing.
 
It's the cable company's "fault". Our economic system dictates that products are distributed at terms and conditions satisfactory to the product owner/creator. The Cable companies have not offered terms and conditions satisfactory to the NFL, so they don't distribute this particular product.
The NFL is negotiating as a monopoly, it's not like the cable companies can go to another provider of professional football. That's why a little thing called congress is looking into this whole thing as possible anti-trust.I find it humorous people will defend monopolistic practices like this by say "lol it's the way the economy works lol". If we actually operated under true capitalism there would be only be one company in this country, and everyone would work for it for whatever it deemed appropriate to pay you. That's why we have law for things like this, and that's why you shouldn't just sit back and say "ok NFL I'll be happy to bend over and take whatever you give me".I'm not saying that the cable companies are the pinnacle of virtue, but to say they should bend over for the NFL because the NFL wants to negotiate from a monopolistic position is just ######ed.
Aren't cable companies violating anti-trust law as well by colluding? Collusion is difficult to prove, if not impossible, but they're all asking for the same thing. Looks like collusion to me. Different distributors, negotiating with the same supplier, all holding out for the same deal? Sounds like collusion to me. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption from Congress. Has had for years. There was an attempt at a competative league, called the USFL, it failed. There's not enough talent to feed both. There's not even enough talent to keep all 32 teams in one league competative. Simply put, how does the consumer gain by having a second league of professional football? WE don't. We actually lose, because you dilute the quality of both. It's why all professional sports in America have this exemption. The main proviso being that the teams be owned by seperate entities, so that the competition comes from within the league. Again, back tot he issue of cable, or even satellite, distribution. A la carte is theonly fair way. With a la carte, nobody is forced to take a channel they don't want. If you want it at that price, you say I want it, and pay the price. If not, you don't. It's that simple. If they're getting enough subscribers, they're happy. If not, they'll cut the price. We should all be lobbying our Congressm(wo)men and Senators on this larger, rather than the NFL/Cable companies issue, which is a sub-issue of the bigger picture.
 
I see your point, but it could be strongly argued that iTunes doesn't fleece consumers, doesn't treat them simply as revenue streams (of course this is just a perception), and provides value to both the customer (cheap, a la carte downloads) and the content providers (more people paying instead of downloading illegally). :D
What's sad is your point more easily applies to cable companies then the NFL, in my opinion. I think the cable companies have long gotten fat on the fact that people do not have a choice. Now that a viable model has developed as competition (satellite) that has a real accessibility, the cable company is not willing to do what's important to keep customers. The point that there is only one NFL is somewhat irrelevant. Granting that the NFL is the only football game in town (which it isn't), there is "only one" / a monopoly on a large number of products people like and enjoy, including other sports. That is less a consumer problem and more a long-tail distributor problem.
Good points. I think for me it's harder to back anyone in this case because the way they're handling it isn't good for me, the consumer, and that's what I'm most interested in.Neither party is coming off very well here the longer it goes on. It is definitely clear that the NFL is trying to get as many new DirecTV customers as possible, obviously for new Sunday Ticket purchasers ....
Agreed. But people/products/companies SHOULD have the right to decide how they are distributed. Howard Stern is available one way and one way only (discounting piracy). If you want to hear Stern, you pay the price. The main reason I'm not so down on the NFL is that if I don't have the NFL Network, that doesn't cut me off from the football universe. There are places I can go to watch the NFL Network. I can listen to games on the radio/net. I can view gamecasts on the net. And I can watch the other games on other channels.
Yes, except their goal is to put all the games on their channel.I'll sum up this whole thing simply. Right now we get NFL games on network television, and the costs are deferred to advertisers. If everything goes to NFLN we will end up paying for the games either by purchasing the channel or by having the costs pushed to us via our cable bill. There will still be advertising we have to watch, so the increased price we pay comes with no additional value.This is why monopolies are bad, because they can increase our costs like this without giving us anything to justify the increase other than "we own it all". If you are ok with paying more without getting more, please support the NFL. Otherwise we really should be opposing them switching the games over to their own overpriced network.
It's not just the games I want on the NFL Network. The games are a huge part of it. Total Access is a great show, on year round. There's great content on the channel year round. Where you're wrong is that the model isn't changing. Unless you're picking up the games through an antenna, where this discussion would be mute, as the NFLN wouldn't come to you, you're already paying an access fee through your bill for the network carrier. The model is the same, just the cannel it's delivered to you by is changing. Cable companies don't just get to rebroadcast channels for free. They have to pay access fees to everybody they rebroadcast. That's the way the business model works. Nothing is different. The issue here is that they think NFL Network wants too much in asking for as much money as other cable channels. Neilson ratings back up the NFL Network in growth trends. Itt's one of the fastest growting cable channels, and that's without being on TWC.
 
Milw JS had reptyred having NFL Network would cost 70 cents per household. Cable could drop one or two useless channels or increaes rates. Knowing them they would jack prices up too much.

 
It's the cable company's "fault". Our economic system dictates that products are distributed at terms and conditions satisfactory to the product owner/creator. The Cable companies have not offered terms and conditions satisfactory to the NFL, so they don't distribute this particular product.
The NFL is negotiating as a monopoly, it's not like the cable companies can go to another provider of professional football. That's why a little thing called congress is looking into this whole thing as possible anti-trust.I find it humorous people will defend monopolistic practices like this by say "lol it's the way the economy works lol". If we actually operated under true capitalism there would be only be one company in this country, and everyone would work for it for whatever it deemed appropriate to pay you. That's why we have law for things like this, and that's why you shouldn't just sit back and say "ok NFL I'll be happy to bend over and take whatever you give me".I'm not saying that the cable companies are the pinnacle of virtue, but to say they should bend over for the NFL because the NFL wants to negotiate from a monopolistic position is just ######ed.
Aren't cable companies violating anti-trust law as well by colluding? Collusion is difficult to prove, if not impossible, but they're all asking for the same thing. Looks like collusion to me. Different distributors, negotiating with the same supplier, all holding out for the same deal? Sounds like collusion to me. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption from Congress. Has had for years. There was an attempt at a competative league, called the USFL, it failed. There's not enough talent to feed both. There's not even enough talent to keep all 32 teams in one league competative. Simply put, how does the consumer gain by having a second league of professional football? WE don't. We actually lose, because you dilute the quality of both. It's why all professional sports in America have this exemption. The main proviso being that the teams be owned by seperate entities, so that the competition comes from within the league. Again, back tot he issue of cable, or even satellite, distribution. A la carte is theonly fair way. With a la carte, nobody is forced to take a channel they don't want. If you want it at that price, you say I want it, and pay the price. If not, you don't. It's that simple. If they're getting enough subscribers, they're happy. If not, they'll cut the price. We should all be lobbying our Congressm(wo)men and Senators on this larger, rather than the NFL/Cable companies issue, which is a sub-issue of the bigger picture.
:thumbdown: You do understand that alot of cable companies do carry the NFLN, right? In fact, I think I read somewhere that more than half of the cable subscribers in the US can get it. It's only 2 or 3 cable companies that don't supply it: Time Warner, Cablevision, and I think some Adelphia systems. Can you please explain how that is collusion?
 
It's the cable company's "fault". Our economic system dictates that products are distributed at terms and conditions satisfactory to the product owner/creator. The Cable companies have not offered terms and conditions satisfactory to the NFL, so they don't distribute this particular product.
The NFL is negotiating as a monopoly, it's not like the cable companies can go to another provider of professional football. That's why a little thing called congress is looking into this whole thing as possible anti-trust.I find it humorous people will defend monopolistic practices like this by say "lol it's the way the economy works lol". If we actually operated under true capitalism there would be only be one company in this country, and everyone would work for it for whatever it deemed appropriate to pay you. That's why we have law for things like this, and that's why you shouldn't just sit back and say "ok NFL I'll be happy to bend over and take whatever you give me".I'm not saying that the cable companies are the pinnacle of virtue, but to say they should bend over for the NFL because the NFL wants to negotiate from a monopolistic position is just ######ed.
Aren't cable companies violating anti-trust law as well by colluding? Collusion is difficult to prove, if not impossible, but they're all asking for the same thing. Looks like collusion to me. Different distributors, negotiating with the same supplier, all holding out for the same deal? Sounds like collusion to me. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption from Congress. Has had for years. There was an attempt at a competative league, called the USFL, it failed. There's not enough talent to feed both. There's not even enough talent to keep all 32 teams in one league competative. Simply put, how does the consumer gain by having a second league of professional football? WE don't. We actually lose, because you dilute the quality of both. It's why all professional sports in America have this exemption. The main proviso being that the teams be owned by seperate entities, so that the competition comes from within the league. Again, back tot he issue of cable, or even satellite, distribution. A la carte is theonly fair way. With a la carte, nobody is forced to take a channel they don't want. If you want it at that price, you say I want it, and pay the price. If not, you don't. It's that simple. If they're getting enough subscribers, they're happy. If not, they'll cut the price. We should all be lobbying our Congressm(wo)men and Senators on this larger, rather than the NFL/Cable companies issue, which is a sub-issue of the bigger picture.
:yucky: You do understand that alot of cable companies do carry the NFLN, right? In fact, I think I read somewhere that more than half of the cable subscribers in the US can get it. It's only 2 or 3 cable companies that don't supply it: Time Warner, Cablevision, and I think some Adelphia systems. Can you please explain how that is collusion?
 
It's the cable company's "fault". Our economic system dictates that products are distributed at terms and conditions satisfactory to the product owner/creator. The Cable companies have not offered terms and conditions satisfactory to the NFL, so they don't distribute this particular product.
The NFL is negotiating as a monopoly, it's not like the cable companies can go to another provider of professional football. That's why a little thing called congress is looking into this whole thing as possible anti-trust.I find it humorous people will defend monopolistic practices like this by say "lol it's the way the economy works lol". If we actually operated under true capitalism there would be only be one company in this country, and everyone would work for it for whatever it deemed appropriate to pay you. That's why we have law for things like this, and that's why you shouldn't just sit back and say "ok NFL I'll be happy to bend over and take whatever you give me".I'm not saying that the cable companies are the pinnacle of virtue, but to say they should bend over for the NFL because the NFL wants to negotiate from a monopolistic position is just ######ed.
Aren't cable companies violating anti-trust law as well by colluding? Collusion is difficult to prove, if not impossible, but they're all asking for the same thing. Looks like collusion to me. Different distributors, negotiating with the same supplier, all holding out for the same deal? Sounds like collusion to me. The NFL has an anti-trust exemption from Congress. Has had for years. There was an attempt at a competative league, called the USFL, it failed. There's not enough talent to feed both. There's not even enough talent to keep all 32 teams in one league competative. Simply put, how does the consumer gain by having a second league of professional football? WE don't. We actually lose, because you dilute the quality of both. It's why all professional sports in America have this exemption. The main proviso being that the teams be owned by seperate entities, so that the competition comes from within the league. Again, back tot he issue of cable, or even satellite, distribution. A la carte is theonly fair way. With a la carte, nobody is forced to take a channel they don't want. If you want it at that price, you say I want it, and pay the price. If not, you don't. It's that simple. If they're getting enough subscribers, they're happy. If not, they'll cut the price. We should all be lobbying our Congressm(wo)men and Senators on this larger, rather than the NFL/Cable companies issue, which is a sub-issue of the bigger picture.
:yucky: You do understand that alot of cable companies do carry the NFLN, right? In fact, I think I read somewhere that more than half of the cable subscribers in the US can get it. It's only 2 or 3 cable companies that don't supply it: Time Warner, Cablevision, and I think some Adelphia systems. Can you please explain how that is collusion?
You're speechless?
 
[quote

:lmao:

You do understand that alot of cable companies do carry the NFLN, right? In fact, I think I read somewhere that more than half of the cable subscribers in the US can get it. It's only 2 or 3 cable companies that don't supply it: Time Warner, Cablevision, and I think some Adelphia systems. Can you please explain how that is collusion?

So in your league only 2-3 players collude you would say it isn't collusion?

 
:lmao:

You do understand that alot of cable companies do carry the NFLN, right? In fact, I think I read somewhere that more than half of the cable subscribers in the US can get it. It's only 2 or 3 cable companies that don't supply it: Time Warner, Cablevision, and I think some Adelphia systems. Can you please explain how that is collusion?

So in your league only 2-3 players collude you would say it isn't collusion?

No, you're correct that 2-3 players can collude. But in this case, how would TW and cablevision be colluding when other cable companies, not to mention DTV and the Dish Network offer NFL Network? In a fantasy league you collude because only one owner can own LT. That's not the case here.

 
One of my small grips about the cost factor is that with Time Warner, I seem to get these high glossy trifold advertising pieces in the mail at least once a week. I am sure they are spending at least .70 on me advertising a month. The only thing I don't have with them is their phone service, so why send it to me. Cut out the advertising and give us the NFL Network..or maybe give us ABC or Fox in HD. That is whole other issue.

 
One of my small grips about the cost factor is that with Time Warner, I seem to get these high glossy trifold advertising pieces in the mail at least once a week. I am sure they are spending at least .70 on me advertising a month. The only thing I don't have with them is their phone service, so why send it to me. Cut out the advertising and give us the NFL Network..or maybe give us ABC or Fox in HD. That is whole other issue.
:lmao: I do agree with that. I think that because TW is such a big company they feel the need to advertise so much to keep up their name brand recognition. Down here in Charlotte we get a commercial with Jake Delhomme hawking TW about every 5 minutes. Maybe he should be spending more time watching game film, huh?
 
Did I say all cable companies were acting together? For the record, Adelphia does not exist anymore, and their subscribers got it the worst, because they had the NFLN, and lost it when Adelphia was bought by TWC.

How is it collusion? Because Time Warner Cable, CableVision and Charter Communications are acting in concert against against another entity to gain a desired outcome that is beneficial to them, and potentially detrimental to the other entity. That's collusion, no matter how you slice it. There are other, smaller, entities involved as well, but their the big dogs in the fight. Now, legally proving collusion is almost impossible. But, here in the court of public opinion, it's pretty obvious that you have three megacorporations asking for the same deal, from the same company at the same time. Either one heck of a coincidence, or collusion. At least in my study of business, I've never seen such a coincidence.

To show the fallacy of the claims by the cable companies about the NFL's costs. DishNetwork offers the NFLNetwork in their base package at $29.99 a month. http://www.dishnetwork.com, as does directv. As I said in an earlier post; It's not about the $.70. That's a clever marketing gimmick that they came up with to get people to rail against the NFL. Buy it if you want, but the reality is that there are two other outlets, and other cable vendors for that matter, carrying the NFL Network on theri basic tier, betraying this claim. But, that's why there's a line of work in marketing that pays well. Spend enough money and you can create your own reality that people will believe, because they don't care to research the realities of the claim s.

this ploy by the cable companies is about one thing. They want to boost subscribers, and hence revenues and profits, in their more profitable 'premium sports package', and they saw the perfect opportunity to do so when the most popular sport in America had the fastest growing network on Cable Television, and put games on it. Lump this monster in there, and subscribers would soar, and charting it out their likely theorized they could make a killing. The NFL chose not to play along. I'd even take it a step futher and theorize that they offered the NFL more than the $.70 per subscriber to be in the premium package, but the NFL said no. Somebody earlier analogized this to boxing and pay per view. This is a great analogy. Go where you have fewer eyes, and people tend to forget you're there. Yes, you get more revenue in the short run, but you lose popularity in the long run, and long term potential revenue declines. More sets, more eyes, lese $ per set.

Cable companies don't care about competition. They are protected in many municipalities from competition. The FCC ruled in the last week or two to prohibit local municipalities from making laws stopping competition in the twisted pair arena (phone lines) delivering TV programming, but in the cable TV arena, the rules are already there, and they have no competition. Satellite is a viable competition in some ways, but in all but major cities, your local networks are not carried on the satellite. Many people prefer their netwrok channels to be local, and that is why they stick with cable. Even for those who didn't care, and were gettting what were called 'distant network' feeds, this ruling came down about a month ago, and this is no longer allowed. They lost their network programming all together. Syracuse is my local market, and they're not on satellites, either Dish or DirecTV. Nor a major city, but pretty large. People around here dumped their dishes like hot cakes about a month ago. They gave up the NFL Network, but got the network games.

Again, I think the best way for consumers to approach it is not take this issue alone, but the issue of subscriber TV as a whole, and push for a la carte programming. This is but a sub-issue of a storm that has been brewing for years. Push your local and state reps for this. Debating amongst ourselves on who is right on this issue is a no win, because we, the consumers, are losing in the end. WE are all, no matter what media we receive our programming through, paying for channels we don't want. Beyiond PBS and the major Networks, I think it should be a la carte. you choose what you want, and pay for what you want. If you don't like the price, or the value, you don't buy it. Market economics. Break down this barrier first. Hopefully soon, they'll be delivering video across twisted pair, and we'll have true competition, but that technology is at least 4-5 years away, ir not 10. It's just a horrible media to carry the bandwidth needed for multichannel applications.

 
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Did I say all cable companies were acting together? For the record, Adelphia does not exist anymore, and their subscribers got it the worst, because they had the NFLN, and lost it when Adelphia was bought by TWC.

How is it colluwion? Because Time Warner Cable, CableVision and Charter Communications are acting in concert against against another entity to gain a desired outcome that is beneficial to them, and potentially detrimental to the other entity. That's collusion, no matter how you slice it. There are other, smaller, entities involved as well, but their the big dogs in the fight. Now, legally proving collusion is almost impossible. But, here in the court of public opinion, it's pretty obvious that you have three megacorporations asking for the same deal, from the same company at the same time. Either one heck of a coincidence, or collusion. At least in my study of business, I've never seen such a coincidence.

To show the fallacy of the claims by the cable companies about the NFL's costs. DishNetwork offers the NFLNetwork in their base package at $29.99 a month. http://www.dishnetwork.com, as does directv. As I said in an earlier post; It's not about the $.70. That's a clever marketing gimmick that they came up with to get people to rail against the NFL. Buy it if you want, but the reality is that there are two other outlets, and other cable vendors for that matter, carrying the NFL Network on theri basic tier, betraying this claim. But, that's why there's a line of work in marketing that pays well. Spend enough money and you can create your own reality that people will believe, because they don't care to research the realities of the claim s.

this ploy by the cable companies is about one thing. They want to boost subscribers, and hence revenues and profits, in their more profitable 'premium sports package', and they saw the perfect opportunity to do so when the most popular sport in America had the fastest growing network on Cable Television, and put games on it. Lump this monster in there, and subscribers would soar, and charting it out their likely theorized they could make a killing. The NFL chose not to play along. I'd even take it a step futher and theorize that they offered the NFL more than the $.70 per subscriber to be in the premium package, but the NFL said no. Somebody earlier analogized this to boxing and pay per view. This is a great analogy. Go where you have fewer eyes, and people tend to forget you're there. Yes, you get more revenue in the short run, but you lose popularity in the long run, and long term potential revenue declines. More sets, more eyes, lese $ per set.

Cable companies don't care about competition. They are protected in many municipalities from competition. The FCC ruled in the last week or two to prohibit local municipalities from making laws stopping competition in the twisted pair arena (phone lines) delivering TV programming, but in the cable TV arena, the rules are already there, and they have no competition. Satellite is a viable competition in some ways, but in all but major cities, your local networks are not carried on the satellite. Many people prefer their netwrok channels to be local, and that is why they stick with cable. Even for those who didn't care, and were gettting what were called 'distant network' feeds, this ruling came down about a month ago, and this is no longer allowed. They lost their network programming all together. Syracuse is my local market, and they're not on satellites, either Dish or DirecTV. Nor a major city, but pretty large. People around here dumped their dishes like hot cakes about a month ago. They gave up the NFL Network, but got the network games.

Again, I think the best way for consumers to approach it is not take this issue alone, but the issue of subscriber TV as a whole, and push for a la carte programming. This is but a sub-issue of a storm that has been brewing for years. Push your local and state reps for this. Debating amongst ourselves on who is right on this issue is a no win, because we, the consumers, are losing in the end. WE are all, no matter what media we receive our programming through, paying for channels we don't want. Beyiond PBS and the major Networks, I think it should be a la carte. you choose what you want, and pay for what you want. If you don't like the price, or the value, you don't buy it. Market economics. Break down this barrier first. Hopefully soon, they'll be delivering video across twisted pair, and we'll have true competition, but that technology is at least 4-5 years away, ir not 10. It's just a horrible media to carry the bandwidth needed for multichannel applications.
Very good reply. But I can read all that and still take cable's side. A couple of things:Maybe those 3 cable companies are taking the same side because it's the most intelligent business decision in their industry. When all the PC manufactures finally rose up against Microsoft and got the DOJ involved, were they colluding? Or where they all just doing the smartest thing possible in that situation for their industry at that time? The reason it's hard to prove collusion is because it often doesn't exist.

I think they actually did offer more that $.70 per to put it in the Sports tier but NFLN refused. I think that a news release saying that was referenced in another thread.

You mention that other cable companies carry it in the basic tier. Very true and that is a business decision they made, likely to prevent people from switching to a dish. TW and the others did not make that decision. It is their business decision to make. If they lose subscribers to a dish and lose lots of money, they will either rectify that decision in the future or they will fail as a business. But they DID offer a way to present it to subscribers who wanted it, on a sports tier. And the NFL REFUSED. Regardless of whether you think the NFL was correct in refusing for "eyeball retention" purposes, I fail to see how you can blame TW for that.

Finally, no one here that I have seen is arguing against ala carte. I would love that. But I can tell from your post that you are smart enough to know that ala carte would almost certainly decrease cable company profits and hurt them as a business. Of course they are against it.

 
Did I say all cable companies were acting together? For the record, Adelphia does not exist anymore, and their subscribers got it the worst, because they had the NFLN, and lost it when Adelphia was bought by TWC.

How is it collusion? Because Time Warner Cable, CableVision and Charter Communications are acting in concert against against another entity to gain a desired outcome that is beneficial to them, and potentially detrimental to the other entity. That's collusion, no matter how you slice it. There are other, smaller, entities involved as well, but their the big dogs in the fight. Now, legally proving collusion is almost impossible. But, here in the court of public opinion, it's pretty obvious that you have three megacorporations asking for the same deal, from the same company at the same time. Either one heck of a coincidence, or collusion. At least in my study of business, I've never seen such a coincidence.

To show the fallacy of the claims by the cable companies about the NFL's costs. DishNetwork offers the NFLNetwork in their base package at $29.99 a month. http://www.dishnetwork.com, as does directv. As I said in an earlier post; It's not about the $.70. That's a clever marketing gimmick that they came up with to get people to rail against the NFL. Buy it if you want, but the reality is that there are two other outlets, and other cable vendors for that matter, carrying the NFL Network on theri basic tier, betraying this claim. But, that's why there's a line of work in marketing that pays well. Spend enough money and you can create your own reality that people will believe, because they don't care to research the realities of the claim s.

this ploy by the cable companies is about one thing. They want to boost subscribers, and hence revenues and profits, in their more profitable 'premium sports package', and they saw the perfect opportunity to do so when the most popular sport in America had the fastest growing network on Cable Television, and put games on it. Lump this monster in there, and subscribers would soar, and charting it out their likely theorized they could make a killing. The NFL chose not to play along. I'd even take it a step futher and theorize that they offered the NFL more than the $.70 per subscriber to be in the premium package, but the NFL said no. Somebody earlier analogized this to boxing and pay per view. This is a great analogy. Go where you have fewer eyes, and people tend to forget you're there. Yes, you get more revenue in the short run, but you lose popularity in the long run, and long term potential revenue declines. More sets, more eyes, lese $ per set.

Cable companies don't care about competition. They are protected in many municipalities from competition. The FCC ruled in the last week or two to prohibit local municipalities from making laws stopping competition in the twisted pair arena (phone lines) delivering TV programming, but in the cable TV arena, the rules are already there, and they have no competition. Satellite is a viable competition in some ways, but in all but major cities, your local networks are not carried on the satellite. Many people prefer their netwrok channels to be local, and that is why they stick with cable. Even for those who didn't care, and were gettting what were called 'distant network' feeds, this ruling came down about a month ago, and this is no longer allowed. They lost their network programming all together. Syracuse is my local market, and they're not on satellites, either Dish or DirecTV. Nor a major city, but pretty large. People around here dumped their dishes like hot cakes about a month ago. They gave up the NFL Network, but got the network games.

Again, I think the best way for consumers to approach it is not take this issue alone, but the issue of subscriber TV as a whole, and push for a la carte programming. This is but a sub-issue of a storm that has been brewing for years. Push your local and state reps for this. Debating amongst ourselves on who is right on this issue is a no win, because we, the consumers, are losing in the end. WE are all, no matter what media we receive our programming through, paying for channels we don't want. Beyiond PBS and the major Networks, I think it should be a la carte. you choose what you want, and pay for what you want. If you don't like the price, or the value, you don't buy it. Market economics. Break down this barrier first. Hopefully soon, they'll be delivering video across twisted pair, and we'll have true competition, but that technology is at least 4-5 years away, ir not 10. It's just a horrible media to carry the bandwidth needed for multichannel applications.
:ptts: This is a good point, and people are letting the cable companies off too easily. They say it would be too expensive, but many providers already offer it in their basic packages ;)

I personally say, give the channel for free. But, the NFL should allow them to put the HDNFL Network in a sports package.

 
Cable companies that advertised they carried the NFL network had an obligation to tell their customers they wouldn't be carrying the games. Did they do that?

I have Comcast and they did carry the games so I don't know.

 
Okay, I lied... One more bump so that I can say "over" as opposed to "almost" 200 people voted...

Cheers again & HAPPY 2007!

Cable / NFLN Stalemate

Who do you feel is at fault over this ordeal?

Cable Companies. [ 67 ] [33.67%]

NFL Network. [ 73 ] [36.68%]

Both. [ 59 ] [29.65%]

Total Votes: 199

 
fwiw,

Just talked to Time Warner and the rep said we could be seeing a deal in March or April. He said NFLN would be part of a sports package, not on basic cable. A new deal has been in the works since the season ended.

This is the first time I've called in a while, so I'm not sure how long they've been giving out this response.

I guess some of us just need to keep waiting.

 
Bobcat10 said:
fwiw,Just talked to Time Warner and the rep said we could be seeing a deal in March or April. He said NFLN would be part of a sports package, not on basic cable. A new deal has been in the works since the season ended.This is the first time I've called in a while, so I'm not sure how long they've been giving out this response. I guess some of us just need to keep waiting.
They were telling me they were going to get a deal before the Thanksgiving Day games right up until Wed., so I wouldn't buy it.
 
I was looking at the charter website and they have a pretty good write up on why they do not have the NFL network. The NFL network wants them to include it on the basic cable and charter does not want to charge customers who don't want it. Charter said they would put it on their sport tier but NFL network would not agree to that. As much as I like the NFL I think they are being a pain by not being able to work with the cable companies a little more. For the ones that do get it on cable do some research and see if it is on your bill or call your company and see if they raised you rate. I would like to know if it is true.

 
I was looking at the charter website and they have a pretty good write up on why they do not have the NFL network. The NFL network wants them to include it on the basic cable and charter does not want to charge customers who don't want it wants to use it as leverage to get more customers to buy their sports package. Charter said they would put it on their sport tier but NFL network would not agree to that. As much as I like the NFL I think they are being a pain by not being able to work with the cable companies a little more. For the ones that do get it on cable do some research and see if it is on your bill or call your company and see if they raised you rate. I would like to know if it is true.
Fixed to reflect reality. Of course a description written by Charter is only going to point out the NFL's greed in it, not their own.
 
I have Comcast and do have the NFL Network. However, I do have to buy an upgraded package for that to be the case.

Digital Classic does not contain the NFL Network.

Digital Plus does contain it.

I also get the following channels as a result of this upgrade:

DIY

Fine Living

Nick Too

MTV en Espanol

MTV Jams

LOGO

CNBC World

Discovery Home

FitTV

Discovery Times Channel

Military Channel

History Channel Int'l

The Outdoor Channel

CMT Pure Country

MTV Hits

Great American Country

Lifetime Movie Network

Sundance Channel West

Encore Wam

Encore East

Encore West

Encore Love East

Encore Love West

Encore Mystery East

RetroPlex

Encore Westerns East

Encore Westerns West

Encore Drama East

IndiePlex

Encore Action East

Encore Action West

Price difference is $3.50 between the two packages.

Quite frankly, I don't watch any of that crap so I'm paying $3.50 for NFL Network. But it's better than $20 for a bunch of crap I don't want, for sure...

 
Also, I blamed the cable companies. If greedy Comcast can manage to deliver this for $3.50 with a pretty large array of useless channels to complement it, there's no reason other cable companies couldn't.

They were obviously able to find a middle ground with the NFL and not charge people who don't want it while making the package that offers it very reasonable. So these other companies have to be bending over customers in a way that the NFL deems pretty danged unreasonable.

 
(Adelphia--->TWC customer)Got my new channel listings today NFLN is not on it. A few empty spots in the sports sections(numerical order) but....nothing.

I had a tiny amount of hope the new listings would include NFLN.

 

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