Calling all the Reggie Bush pimps (1 Viewer)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

well if this isnt a breakout year, I cannot wait to see his breakout season

 

[Short Corner]

You are living a life of revisionist history, as well as modifying your responses to fit your argument rather than the facts. Barry was hit for a loss or no gain on a higher percentage of his carries than any running back in league history. He was the best pure runner to ever play the game but he could not be counted on to get the tough yards to grind out the clock at the end of games.

And yet he still could have had the rushing record if he wanted it. Was he on the field or on the bench in those moments? And how have I modified my posts? My original post was:

As far as real football goes, am I the only one that noticed when his team needed a yard at the end of the game (to prolong a drive)...he wasn't in there....similar to his college days. Bush is money this year in fantasy...but you honestly don't want your #2 pick to be able to get you a yard to prolong or seal a game? I recall another poster mentioning earlier how the ability to gain short yardage or run the clock out matters....

I'll be waiting on you to enlighten me on what I've modified....

So a RB who is poor in short yardage situations is more valuable to you on the field in those situations instead of yielding to a short yardage specialist?

 

[rowmacks]

well if this isnt a breakout year, I cannot wait to see his breakout season

Word.

 

[Chaka]

As far as real football goes, am I the only one that noticed when his team needed a yard at the end of the game (to prolong a drive)...he wasn't in there....similar to his college days. Bush is money this year in fantasy...but you honestly don't want your #2 pick to be able to get you a yard to prolong or seal a game? I recall another poster mentioning earlier how the ability to gain short yardage or run the clock out matters....

He's simply not that role on a team. So what? Honestly, he's not LT2 or Priest or other all around RBs, but as long as he scores TDs someway, somehow, he'll be a huge factor in helping his team win games. If he was able to do the goal line stuff as well, we'd be talking about a top 5 back, not a guy that I drafted in the 3rd round.

That's the point. I think if you spend the #2 pick on a dude, then you want him to be that guy. Again, I'm talking real football and not FF. I think he is having a great year either way.

You are trying so hard to justify simply not liking Bush.He had one huge negative play in this game but there is no way they are even close at the end without the guy.

Bush and Brees drive that offense.

Sure...if you say so. So you don't agree that a coaching staff would prefer to have a back that they could rely on in short yardage situations when they spend a #2 pick? I agree that Brees and Bush drive the offense, and Bush is having a productive year. But I don't think you want your main guy on the bench when it's time to seal the game...similar to the Rose Bowl vs UT.

Kingmalaki, you're reaching hard here. He was drafted for a role and he's doing it very well at this point. Since when does being a high draft pick mean he has to do everything? LT doesn't play defense or kickoff coverage...Sure, Bush isn't the best short yardage back. But how many good short yardage backs can do what Bush can in the role that Bush has? Zero.

New Orleans knew that Bush wasn't a great short yardage back when they drafted him #2, yet they still saw fit to draft him #2. There are also tons of RBs that get drafted in the top 5 and can't catch a pass if their life depended on it. Same difference.

I actually think he was drafted to be an every down traditional back or they wouldn't have spent that high a pick on him. Now it would seem that they have put him in the role that is better suited to his skills. We talked about it last year in the MJD/Bush debate. The only way that Bush is going to have a long, and successful career is if they avoid using him up the gut. Keep him to the outside, lots of dump passes, and line him up in the slot like the Rams did with Faulk. That being said, having a 4.1 YPC in one game does not make him a great RB.

Who cares what YOU think they drafted him to be. Just admit you are wrong and this is his breakout year and stop with the foot in mouth disease. I'm giving you an out, I suggest you walk through the door.

Curb your enthusiasm. I agree that Reggie appears to be turning a corner in his career but it is only three games and lots of things can happen between here and there to derail his performance.

 

[millertyme1]

In a start 2 RB PPR, I've decided to only start Bush so the rest of my league is on equal footing.

 

[Short Corner]

In a start 2 RB PPR, I've decided to only start Bush so the rest of my league is on equal footing.

Very noble of you.

 

[Chaka]

You are living a life of revisionist history, as well as modifying your responses to fit your argument rather than the facts. Barry was hit for a loss or no gain on a higher percentage of his carries than any running back in league history. He was the best pure runner to ever play the game but he could not be counted on to get the tough yards to grind out the clock at the end of games.

And yet he still could have had the rushing record if he wanted it. Was he on the field or on the bench in those moments? And how have I modified my posts? My original post was:

As far as real football goes, am I the only one that noticed when his team needed a yard at the end of the game (to prolong a drive)...he wasn't in there....similar to his college days. Bush is money this year in fantasy...but you honestly don't want your #2 pick to be able to get you a yard to prolong or seal a game? I recall another poster mentioning earlier how the ability to gain short yardage or run the clock out matters....

I'll be waiting on you to enlighten me on what I've modified....

I did not mean to suggest you modified previous posts but you are not answering your original question you are answering the question "Was he on the field in those situations?" when your original question was (and I am paraphrasing here) "Can player x be relied upon in those situations?" There is a difference. Barry was on the field and he could not be relied upon to perform in those situations (clock killing, short yardage, goal line situations). Sticking with something that does not work is bad coaching.

Edge is smart enough to recognize that he doesn't run his best in those situations and will often pull himself out of the game. This probably has a lot to do with his desire to preserve his health and not take the short yardage beating. Either way he is average at best in clock killing situations, witness the Denny Green melt down game.

 

[TheFanatic]

As far as real football goes, am I the only one that noticed when his team needed a yard at the end of the game (to prolong a drive)...he wasn't in there....similar to his college days. Bush is money this year in fantasy...but you honestly don't want your #2 pick to be able to get you a yard to prolong or seal a game? I recall another poster mentioning earlier how the ability to gain short yardage or run the clock out matters....

He's simply not that role on a team. So what? Honestly, he's not LT2 or Priest or other all around RBs, but as long as he scores TDs someway, somehow, he'll be a huge factor in helping his team win games. If he was able to do the goal line stuff as well, we'd be talking about a top 5 back, not a guy that I drafted in the 3rd round.

That's the point. I think if you spend the #2 pick on a dude, then you want him to be that guy. Again, I'm talking real football and not FF. I think he is having a great year either way.

You are trying so hard to justify simply not liking Bush.He had one huge negative play in this game but there is no way they are even close at the end without the guy.

Bush and Brees drive that offense.

Sure...if you say so. So you don't agree that a coaching staff would prefer to have a back that they could rely on in short yardage situations when they spend a #2 pick? I agree that Brees and Bush drive the offense, and Bush is having a productive year. But I don't think you want your main guy on the bench when it's time to seal the game...similar to the Rose Bowl vs UT.

Kingmalaki, you're reaching hard here. He was drafted for a role and he's doing it very well at this point. Since when does being a high draft pick mean he has to do everything? LT doesn't play defense or kickoff coverage...Sure, Bush isn't the best short yardage back. But how many good short yardage backs can do what Bush can in the role that Bush has? Zero.

New Orleans knew that Bush wasn't a great short yardage back when they drafted him #2, yet they still saw fit to draft him #2. There are also tons of RBs that get drafted in the top 5 and can't catch a pass if their life depended on it. Same difference.

I actually think he was drafted to be an every down traditional back or they wouldn't have spent that high a pick on him. Now it would seem that they have put him in the role that is better suited to his skills. We talked about it last year in the MJD/Bush debate. The only way that Bush is going to have a long, and successful career is if they avoid using him up the gut. Keep him to the outside, lots of dump passes, and line him up in the slot like the Rams did with Faulk. That being said, having a 4.1 YPC in one game does not make him a great RB.

Who cares what YOU think they drafted him to be. Just admit you are wrong and this is his breakout year and stop with the foot in mouth disease. I'm giving you an out, I suggest you walk through the door.

They make decaf you know....I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. That is not he mold he fits in. After 2 years of less than 600 yards rushing and a dismal YPC, they seem to have figured out how to use the guy. But they need that guy between the tackles which is probably why Deuce is even in the league right now in the hope that he will actually be somewhat serviceable in that role at some point this season.

After 3 games the guy is averaging 50 yards/game and 3.6 YPC. He's getting mad yards in the air but he still isn't running the ball well. So the old maxim seems to be true. 3rd year is when Receivers break out...

 

[Chaka]

After 3 games the guy is averaging 50 yards/game and 3.6 YPC. He's getting mad yards in the air but he still isn't running the ball well. So the old maxim seems to be true. 3rd year is when Receivers break out...

Whatever. I don't know many receivers who are putting up 134 and 1.3 TDs per game. Any coach in the league will take the kind of production Reggie is churning out from anywhere on the field.I am pretty sure any fantasy coach would also like that kind of production in their lineup too.

 

[Doug B]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. That is not he mold he fits in. After 2 years of less than 600 yards rushing and a dismal YPC, they seem to have figured out how to use the guy. But they need that guy between the tackles which is probably why Deuce is even in the league right now in the hope that he will actually be somewhat serviceable in that role at some point this season.

After 3 games the guy is averaging 50 yards/game and 3.6 YPC. He's getting mad yards in the air but he still isn't running the ball well. So the old maxim seems to be true. 3rd year is when Receivers break out...

Why does Bush have to succeed in such narrowly specified terms? Because the program has "RB" next to his name? Because the Saints took him #2 overall instead of in the third round? What is it?From this homer's perspective, what the Saints really need is little bit more physical of an offensive line. Too many defensive guys in the backfield on short-yardage plays where everyone's in tight. A better O-Line wouldn't turn Reggie Bush into Priest Holmes, of course -- but it would solve the short-yardage woes tout suite.

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. That is not he mold he fits in. After 2 years of less than 600 yards rushing and a dismal YPC, they seem to have figured out how to use the guy. But they need that guy between the tackles which is probably why Deuce is even in the league right now in the hope that he will actually be somewhat serviceable in that role at some point this season.

After 3 games the guy is averaging 50 yards/game and 3.6 YPC. He's getting mad yards in the air but he still isn't running the ball well. So the old maxim seems to be true. 3rd year is when Receivers break out...

Why does Bush have to succeed in such narrowly specified terms? Because the program has "RB" next to his name? Because the Saints took him #2 overall instead of in the third round? What is it?From this homer's perspective, what the Saints really need is little bit more physical of an offensive line. Too many defensive guys in the backfield on short-yardage plays where everyone's in tight. A better O-Line wouldn't turn Reggie Bush into Priest Holmes, of course -- but it would solve the short-yardage woes tout suite.

dude, don't bother. just let the haters continue to hate. their minds were made up 3 years ago.

 

[switz]

After 3 games the guy is averaging 50 yards/game and 3.6 YPC. He's getting mad yards in the air but he still isn't running the ball well. So the old maxim seems to be true. 3rd year is when Receivers break out...

And that's how he's going to finish the season too Week 1, 14 carries, 3.6 YPCWeek 2, 10 carries, 2.8 YPCWeek 3, 18 carries, 4.1YPCSure seems like he's improving through the season, and that the more carries he gets, the better he is....I bet when Barber went 16-80 & 18-63 you thought he was a really crappy RB too

 

[Jayrod]

In a start 2 RB PPR, I've decided to only start Bush so the rest of my league is on equal footing.

Well, he is basically like two players rolled into one, so that makes sense.

 

[switz]

So a RB who is poor in short yardage situations is more valuable to you on the field in those situations instead of yielding to a short yardage specialist?

Are you saying Bush is poor in short yardage situations?3-1-DEN 49 (5:46) 25-R.Bush left end to DEN 47 for 2 yards (60-J.Engelberger).3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger).2-2-DEN 18 (10:29) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 15 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).2-3-DEN 32 (12:50) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush pushed ob at DEN 28 for 4 yards (58-N.Webster).3-1-DEN 19 (11:24) 25-R.Bush left tackle to DEN 16 for 3 yards (97-B.Bailey; 58-N.Webster).Or maybe Pierre Thomas would be better?2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).Reggie is not a poor short yardage RB... you don't have to be great between the tackles to be a good short yardage RB...

 

[Chachi]

So a RB who is poor in short yardage situations is more valuable to you on the field in those situations instead of yielding to a short yardage specialist?

Are you saying Bush is poor in short yardage situations?3-1-DEN 49 (5:46) 25-R.Bush left end to DEN 47 for 2 yards (60-J.Engelberger).3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger).2-2-DEN 18 (10:29) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 15 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).2-3-DEN 32 (12:50) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush pushed ob at DEN 28 for 4 yards (58-N.Webster).3-1-DEN 19 (11:24) 25-R.Bush left tackle to DEN 16 for 3 yards (97-B.Bailey; 58-N.Webster).Or maybe Pierre Thomas would be better?2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).Reggie is not a poor short yardage RB... you don't have to be great between the tackles to be a good short yardage RB...

Be warned, much to everyones surprise Fanatic will not give up on his case, even though he's getting punked left and right and his foot is all the way down into his digestive tract, oh well, he'll continue to "fight his fight" even when his fight has been lost now for some time. Some guys we should just let have the last word and walk away, once again, here's your chance Fantatic, have the last word and you win.

 

[kingmalaki]

I did not mean to suggest you modified previous posts but you are not answering your original question you are answering the question "Was he on the field in those situations?" when your original question was (and I am paraphrasing here) "Can player x be relied upon in those situations?" There is a difference. Barry was on the field and he could not be relied upon to perform in those situations (clock killing, short yardage, goal line situations). Sticking with something that does not work is bad coaching.Edge is smart enough to recognize that he doesn't run his best in those situations and will often pull himself out of the game. This probably has a lot to do with his desire to preserve his health and not take the short yardage beating. Either way he is average at best in clock killing situations, witness the Denny Green melt down game.

To clarify, my original question/point was that in those situations I would like to be able to rely on my high-paid RB. I'm sure the Saints would as well. That doesn't mean they aren't happy with what Reggie is giving them, but in those situations they could be happier. Similar to my Shaq scenario, 75% of the time it doesn't matter that he can't shoot FT's to seal a game/series. But there are some moments where it's nice to have your stud player fill that role (that most studly players are relied on to fill, similar to how a great RB wouldn't be on the bench but in the game).Another poster in this thread mentioned how being able to rely on Bush in those situations would really help his team, or a team in general. Once I saw him on the sideline during crunch time, it immediately made me think of that post. In reference to the Barry comparison, I have seen him seal many a game. For every time he took a loss, he got positive yards and then some...hence him being in a position to claim the rushing record if he chose. I don't see Barry on the bench in that instance and I'm sure you won't go on record as saying you never saw him kill a game or get extend that winning drive in a situation similar to last night's game.

 

[LILB811]

So a RB who is poor in short yardage situations is more valuable to you on the field in those situations instead of yielding to a short yardage specialist?

Are you saying Bush is poor in short yardage situations?3-1-DEN 49 (5:46) 25-R.Bush left end to DEN 47 for 2 yards (60-J.Engelberger).3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger).2-2-DEN 18 (10:29) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 15 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).2-3-DEN 32 (12:50) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush pushed ob at DEN 28 for 4 yards (58-N.Webster).3-1-DEN 19 (11:24) 25-R.Bush left tackle to DEN 16 for 3 yards (97-B.Bailey; 58-N.Webster).Or maybe Pierre Thomas would be better?2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).Reggie is not a poor short yardage RB... you don't have to be great between the tackles to be a good short yardage RB...

Be warned, much to everyones surprise Fanatic will not give up on his case, even though he's getting punked left and right and his foot is all the way down into his digestive tract, oh well, he'll continue to "fight his fight" even when his fight has been lost now for some time. Some guys we should just let have the last word and walk away, once again, here's your chance Fantatic, have the last word and you win.

I'm in the Bush camp, but there's no need to modify the game log. The above should read:3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger). FUMBLES (J.Engelberger), RECOVERED by DEN-N.Webster at NO 34. N.Webster for 34 yards, TOUCHDOWN.Also, Thomas scored his TD's on a 1st and goal from the 5 and a 2nd and 4 from the 10 in addition to not converting his other opportunities

 

[switz]

So a RB who is poor in short yardage situations is more valuable to you on the field in those situations instead of yielding to a short yardage specialist?

Are you saying Bush is poor in short yardage situations?3-1-DEN 49 (5:46) 25-R.Bush left end to DEN 47 for 2 yards (60-J.Engelberger).3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger).2-2-DEN 18 (10:29) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 15 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).2-3-DEN 32 (12:50) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush pushed ob at DEN 28 for 4 yards (58-N.Webster).3-1-DEN 19 (11:24) 25-R.Bush left tackle to DEN 16 for 3 yards (97-B.Bailey; 58-N.Webster).Or maybe Pierre Thomas would be better?2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).Reggie is not a poor short yardage RB... you don't have to be great between the tackles to be a good short yardage RB...

Be warned, much to everyones surprise Fanatic will not give up on his case, even though he's getting punked left and right and his foot is all the way down into his digestive tract, oh well, he'll continue to "fight his fight" even when his fight has been lost now for some time. Some guys we should just let have the last word and walk away, once again, here's your chance Fantatic, have the last word and you win.

I'm in the Bush camp, but there's no need to modify the game log. The above should read:3-1-NO 33 (14:25) 25-R.Bush up the middle to NO 34 for 1 yard (60-J.Engelberger). FUMBLES (J.Engelberger), RECOVERED by DEN-N.Webster at NO 34. N.Webster for 34 yards, TOUCHDOWN.Also, Thomas scored his TD's on a 1st and goal from the 5 and a 2nd and 4 from the 10 in addition to not converting his other opportunities

Yeah he fumbled... but he didn't get stuffed. The Bush haters argue he can't get the yards... he did. He also dropped the ball, but that's not part of their argument.

 

[gregjcross]

As far as real football goes, am I the only one that noticed when his team needed a yard at the end of the game (to prolong a drive)...he wasn't in there....similar to his college days. Bush is money this year in fantasy...but you honestly don't want your #2 pick to be able to get you a yard to prolong or seal a game? I recall another poster mentioning earlier how the ability to gain short yardage or run the clock out matters....

He's simply not that role on a team. So what? Honestly, he's not LT2 or Priest or other all around RBs, but as long as he scores TDs someway, somehow, he'll be a huge factor in helping his team win games. If he was able to do the goal line stuff as well, we'd be talking about a top 5 back, not a guy that I drafted in the 3rd round.

That's the point. I think if you spend the #2 pick on a dude, then you want him to be that guy. Again, I'm talking real football and not FF. I think he is having a great year either way.

You are trying so hard to justify simply not liking Bush.He had one huge negative play in this game but there is no way they are even close at the end without the guy.

Bush and Brees drive that offense.

Sure...if you say so. So you don't agree that a coaching staff would prefer to have a back that they could rely on in short yardage situations when they spend a #2 pick? I agree that Brees and Bush drive the offense, and Bush is having a productive year. But I don't think you want your main guy on the bench when it's time to seal the game...similar to the Rose Bowl vs UT.

Kingmalaki, you're reaching hard here. He was drafted for a role and he's doing it very well at this point. Since when does being a high draft pick mean he has to do everything? LT doesn't play defense or kickoff coverage...Sure, Bush isn't the best short yardage back. But how many good short yardage backs can do what Bush can in the role that Bush has? Zero.

New Orleans knew that Bush wasn't a great short yardage back when they drafted him #2, yet they still saw fit to draft him #2. There are also tons of RBs that get drafted in the top 5 and can't catch a pass if their life depended on it. Same difference.

I actually think he was drafted to be an every down traditional back or they wouldn't have spent that high a pick on him. Now it would seem that they have put him in the role that is better suited to his skills. We talked about it last year in the MJD/Bush debate. The only way that Bush is going to have a long, and successful career is if they avoid using him up the gut. Keep him to the outside, lots of dump passes, and line him up in the slot like the Rams did with Faulk. That being said, having a 4.1 YPC in one game does not make him a great RB.

Who cares what YOU think they drafted him to be. Just admit you are wrong and this is his breakout year and stop with the foot in mouth disease. I'm giving you an out, I suggest you walk through the door.

Curb your enthusiasm. I agree that Reggie appears to be turning a corner in his career but it is only three games and lots of things can happen between here and there to derail his performance.

I am not a Bush owner nor do i have any stake in NOR, but the "curb your enthusiasm" comment is kind of ironic. Bush is top 5 right now and living up to all expectations. As a Ronnie Brown owner the past two years, I can relate to that. I think the shark move is holding and riding.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Bush avg 3.5 YPC on 42 atts

Thomas avg 3 YPC on 22 atts

anyone want to say its not Reggie, it could be the O-Line's Blocking in the Mix.

 

[gianmarco]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back.

This is 100% wrong. They did NOT spend 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. In 2006, there wasn't a more clearly defined backfield than New Orleans. Deuce was the 20 carry, inside-the-tackle runner, and Reggie Bush was the guy who got the ball in space and it worked to perfection. It wasn't until last year when Deuce went down to an injury that Bush was asked to be an inside runner.You can go ahead and keep making yourself look foolish by arguing that Bush is a failure as I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you from doing so, but please don't start making things up like this that are absolutely incorrect.

 

[switz]

Bush avg 3.5 YPC on 42 attsThomas avg 3 YPC on 22 attsanyone want to say its not Reggie, it could be the O-Line's Blocking in the Mix.

It's not Reggie, it's the OL

 

[TheFanatic]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back.

This is 100% wrong. They did NOT spend 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. In 2006, there wasn't a more clearly defined backfield than New Orleans. Deuce was the 20 carry, inside-the-tackle runner, and Reggie Bush was the guy who got the ball in space and it worked to perfection. It wasn't until last year when Deuce went down to an injury that Bush was asked to be an inside runner.You can go ahead and keep making yourself look foolish by arguing that Bush is a failure as I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you from doing so, but please don't start making things up like this that are absolutely incorrect.

Worked to perfection? Please explain his sub 4.0 YPC and his sub 600 yards rushing 2 straight years. First year he split time and that makes sense with the low yards. But doesn't explain the low YPC. Last year he had 10 starts and still couldn't get over 600 and had a 3.7 YPC.This year he has greatly increased his YPR over last season but not his rushing. Still only 3.6 YPC for the season and averaging 50 yards a game.

3 games of improved receiving and pretty much more of the same rushing does not mean this guy is going to the pro-bowl this year. He could wind up there but 2 years of mediocre running followed by 3 games of more mediocre running and improved receiving does not make this guy an all world RB.

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

 

[Judge Smails]

I'm a Reggie owner, and one of his biggest pimps. It's not that complicated folks:

1) If given a hole to the second level he's a threat to go to the house every time. So, YPC be damned you have to try it X times a game as he's one of the few true gamebreakers in the NFL. Saints don't often open up those holes - hence he only shows it once or twice a game.

2) He goes down with any contact. The simplest arm wrap on his legs or shoulders brings him down every time. Therefore, he cannot turn 1 yard into 3, etc. He needs holes.

3) He should be used in SOME short yardage situations. Bottom line, Sains O-line doesn't get a lot of push. So they have to be more creative. Use Reggie to over the top, as a decoy, do play action etc.

 

[MCguidance]

This thread is just debating the same thing over and over again. The guy is producing a lot of yards, a lot of receptions, and a good amount of TDs. Slice it the way you want, he is being productive. Is he best between the tackles? No, some of that is his fault, some of it is his lines. Is he best in open space? Yes, some of it is his doing, some of it is the good offensive scheming. All of this equals positive results. Will he have a down game? Yes, of course. Will detractors post then? Yes, of course. Will have have great games and people come running? Yes, of course.

He is not a traditional RB, but this league is no longer "traditional."

 

[smackdaddies]

Hilarious

RBush is leading (at least my league) in scoring

And yet people don't see this as a "break out" year.

 

[drew726]

All I know is, let Pierre Thomas or Deuce get the hard yards, I don't care. I have this guy in a Keeper league and I don't want him injured. He is a PPR god.

 

[Road Warriors]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back.

This is 100% wrong. They did NOT spend 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. In 2006, there wasn't a more clearly defined backfield than New Orleans. Deuce was the 20 carry, inside-the-tackle runner, and Reggie Bush was the guy who got the ball in space and it worked to perfection. It wasn't until last year when Deuce went down to an injury that Bush was asked to be an inside runner.You can go ahead and keep making yourself look foolish by arguing that Bush is a failure as I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you from doing so, but please don't start making things up like this that are absolutely incorrect.

Shhhh! Its guys like this that leave Reggie available to be picked in the 3rd in a PPR league. Shout it to the rooftops... REGGIE IS A BUST!!!

 

[drew726]

Good news is I took Reggie 3rd. Bad news is I took braylon 2nd.

 

[Akira]

Good news is I took Reggie 3rd. Bad news is I took braylon 2nd.

Good news is I took Barber in the 1st round. The best news is I got Bush in the 3rd...in a ppr!

 

[gianmarco]

I stand by the statement. And he's why. They spent 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back.

This is 100% wrong. They did NOT spend 2 years trying to play him like a between the tackles, every down back. In 2006, there wasn't a more clearly defined backfield than New Orleans. Deuce was the 20 carry, inside-the-tackle runner, and Reggie Bush was the guy who got the ball in space and it worked to perfection. It wasn't until last year when Deuce went down to an injury that Bush was asked to be an inside runner.You can go ahead and keep making yourself look foolish by arguing that Bush is a failure as I wouldn't dream of trying to stop you from doing so, but please don't start making things up like this that are absolutely incorrect.

Worked to perfection? Please explain his sub 4.0 YPC and his sub 600 yards rushing 2 straight years. First year he split time and that makes sense with the low yards. But doesn't explain the low YPC. Last year he had 10 starts and still couldn't get over 600 and had a 3.7 YPC.This year he has greatly increased his YPR over last season but not his rushing. Still only 3.6 YPC for the season and averaging 50 yards a game.

3 games of improved receiving and pretty much more of the same rushing does not mean this guy is going to the pro-bowl this year. He could wind up there but 2 years of mediocre running followed by 3 games of more mediocre running and improved receiving does not make this guy an all world RB.

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

Way to duck your original assertion that was 100% false. I know, it's easier to take my response and shoot back an argument but you completely failed to acknowledge that you were 100% wrong.As to "worked to perfection", as you asked. First of all, I don't have to explain his stats for 2 straight years. My post dealt with 2006. Perhaps you missed that part while you were also glossing over the fact that you were claiming fallacies as facts. You're assuming that I'm arguing that Reggie has been a great talent on the field throughout his career. I'm not saying that at all. My post was simply a response to your INCORRECT statement about how he was used and pointed specifically to 2006 because that is where you were WRONG. So, while I'll go ahead and answer your question, I don't have to try and explain why his ypc is what it is for 2 years because it had nothing to do with my post or simply the 2006 season to which I was referring.

Secondly, a single stat like YPC doesn't always tell an entire story. If that isn't a concept that you can understand, I can't help you really. In 2006, the Saints went from a 3-13 team and the 20th ranked overall offense to an NFC championship team that finished as the #1 overall offense in 2006. A big part of that was Reggie Bush and his contribution all over the field. It doesn't matter what his ypc were. I watched each and every game of theirs and Bush was a HUGE reason for the success of that team and most anyone else that watched them would tell you the same (and no, not just "homers"). And that's not to mention that he continued to improve tremendously as the year went on and that his YPC from games 9-16 was 4.8 ypc while also scoring 10 TDs in that timeframe. He struggled early on, but as that offense took shape, he was VERY successful both running and catching the ball.

However, what he was NOT was an inside the tackle runner, so again, your statement above that they've been trying for TWO years to make him an inside the tackle runner is flat out WRONG. As I said above, I'm not going to argue with you whether or not Bush is a good RB or a bad RB or an impact player or not an impact player because someone like you will think they are right no matter what kind of evidence is presented and never admit otherwise. My response was simply to point out an erroneous statement that you tried to pass off as a fact to support your arguments. You're going to have to use something else to try and prove whatever point you think you're proving.

 

[jurb26]

Lots of foolishness going on in this thread. Most of all is how many TheFanatic has caught.

 

[switz]

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

Point to ONE drive where it stalled because Bush couldn't convert a new set of downs.I'll give you one... the fumble. That's it. Do you really think the Saints lost because they couldn't RUN for first downs? Did you watch the game? The running game had ZERO to do with the loss.

 

[Chaka]

I did not mean to suggest you modified previous posts but you are not answering your original question you are answering the question "Was he on the field in those situations?" when your original question was (and I am paraphrasing here) "Can player x be relied upon in those situations?" There is a difference. Barry was on the field and he could not be relied upon to perform in those situations (clock killing, short yardage, goal line situations). Sticking with something that does not work is bad coaching.Edge is smart enough to recognize that he doesn't run his best in those situations and will often pull himself out of the game. This probably has a lot to do with his desire to preserve his health and not take the short yardage beating. Either way he is average at best in clock killing situations, witness the Denny Green melt down game.

To clarify, my original question/point was that in those situations I would like to be able to rely on my high-paid RB. I'm sure the Saints would as well. That doesn't mean they aren't happy with what Reggie is giving them, but in those situations they could be happier. Similar to my Shaq scenario, 75% of the time it doesn't matter that he can't shoot FT's to seal a game/series. But there are some moments where it's nice to have your stud player fill that role (that most studly players are relied on to fill, similar to how a great RB wouldn't be on the bench but in the game).Another poster in this thread mentioned how being able to rely on Bush in those situations would really help his team, or a team in general. Once I saw him on the sideline during crunch time, it immediately made me think of that post. In reference to the Barry comparison, I have seen him seal many a game. For every time he took a loss, he got positive yards and then some...hence him being in a position to claim the rushing record if he chose. I don't see Barry on the bench in that instance and I'm sure you won't go on record as saying you never saw him kill a game or get extend that winning drive in a situation similar to last night's game.

Using Barry as an example only hurts your cause. Sure he successfully helped kill the clock in games during his career, he played in over 160 of them so he sure better have. But I will gladly go on the record stating that he failed in those situations more often then succeeded. As wonderful and dynamic of a player as he was, best pure runner I have ever seen he had a serious flaw in his short yardage game. He also was an average receiver at best, to use your argumentative style against you don't you think it is reasonable to be able to rely on your top 3 draft pick to be useful on screen and check-down passes?But no one will argue those points against Barry, and deservedly so, because he was so special in other ways that, in large part, it made up for the shortcomings in his game.And as Switz pointed out Reggie may not be as bad in the short yardage game as the general perception.At any rate, it's been fun and I look forward to continuing the debate as the season continues.

 

[Magnum]

This should give a few of you something to discuss (quotes from Shanahan, Champ, and others on Bush):

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=4...mp;confirm=true

 

[Young 8]

This should give a few of you something to discuss (quotes from Shanahan, Champ, and others on Bush):

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=4...mp;confirm=true

NFL players/coaches praising other NLF players/coaches in front of reporters ??wow....never happened before

 

[Magnum]

This should give a few of you something to discuss (quotes from Shanahan, Champ, and others on Bush):

http://www.nfl.com/news/story;jsessionid=4...mp;confirm=true

NFL players/coaches praising other NLF players/coaches in front of reporters ??wow....never happened before

Obviously, you're in the "Bush hater" camp.

 

[hbroitman]

Should I trade Bush for S. Jackson and J . Cotchery? Non PPR league

Have Romo Garrard -QB

LT, sproles, F. Taylor

WR - L. fitzgerald, D. Driver. roy Williams, D. Mason

Cooley TE

BAL DEF

 

[TheFanatic]

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

Point to ONE drive where it stalled because Bush couldn't convert a new set of downs.I'll give you one... the fumble. That's it. Do you really think the Saints lost because they couldn't RUN for first downs?

I'll give you a couple more:1-10-NO 14 (14:56) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short left to 25-R.Bush.2-10-NO 14 (14:51) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 20 for 6 yards (55-D.Williams).3-4-NO 20 (14:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees sacked at NO 13 for -7 yards (91-E.Ekuban).4-11-NO 13 (13:41) 7-S.Weatherford punts 54 yards to DEN 33, Center-47-K.Houser. 19-E.Royal to NO 45 for 22 yards (86-B.Ortega). 1-10-NO 20 (2:55) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 88-J.Shockey to NO 34 for 14 yards (53-N.Koutouvides, 58-N.Webster).Timeout #1 by DEN at 02:34.1-10-NO 34 (2:34) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass deep middle to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 47 for 19 yards (55-D.Williams).1-10-DEN 47 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to DEN 31 for 16 yards (33-M.Manuel).Two-Minute Warning1-10-DEN 31 (2:00) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush to DEN 30 for 1 yard (92-E.Dumervil).2-9-DEN 30 (1:35) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 83-B.Miller to DEN 17 for 13 yards (51-J.Winborn).1-10-DEN 17 (1:11) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 17-R.Meachem to DEN 5 for 12 yards (20-M.McCree; 32-D.Bly). Penalty on DEN-32-D.Bly, Illegal Contact, declined.1-5-DEN 5 (1:03) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 81-D.Patten to DEN 1 for 4 yards (41-K.Paymah; 97-B.Bailey).Timeout #2 by DEN at 00:57.2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:46.3-1-DEN 1 46) 9-D.Brees FUMBLES (Aborted) at DEN 1, recovered by NO-44-M.Karney at DEN 1. 44-M.Karney to DEN 1 for no gain (60-J.Engelberger). Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.Timeout #3 by NO at 00:31.4-1-DEN 1 31) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (58-N.Webster). 1-10-NO 36 (13:58) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 44-M.Karney to NO 37 for 1 yard (55-D.Williams).2-9-NO 37 (13:21) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 40 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).3-6-NO 40 (12:44) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 25-R.Bush.4-6-NO 40 (12:39) 7-S.Weatherford punts 60 yards to end zone, Center-47-K.Houser, Touchback. 1-10-NO 21 (5:33) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Shockey (58-N.Webster).2-10-NO 21 (5:28) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to NO 29 for 8 yards (55-D.Williams, 33-M.Manuel).3-2-NO 29 (4:52) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 48 for 23 yards (41-K.Paymah, 97-B.Bailey). DEN-97-B.Bailey was injured during the play.1-10-DEN 48 (4:19) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 16-L.Moore to DEN 33 for 15 yards (51-J.Winborn).1-10-DEN 33 (3:35) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 26 for 7 yards (33-M.Manuel). DEN-20-M.McCree was injured during the play.2-3-DEN 26 (3:04) 25-R.Bush up the middle to DEN 24 for 2 yards (63-D.Robertson).3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).Two-Minute Warning4-2-DEN 25 (2:00) 1-M.Gramatica 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

Did you watch the game? The running game had ZERO to do with the loss.

Let's see, a back and forth game where the opposing offense is pretty much carving up your D. Maybe, just maybe if they could've grinded the clock down they would've pulled that game out. Just a thought....

 

[MCguidance]

Should I trade Bush for S. Jackson and J . Cotchery? Non PPR leagueHave Romo Garrard -QB LT, sproles, F. TaylorWR - L. fitzgerald, D. Driver. roy Williams, D. MasonCooley TEBAL DEF

I wouldn't. Bush right now is top 5, Sjax's team is a mess. Cotch would be nice but you have guys that are about his equal. Up to you though.

 

[switz]

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

Point to ONE drive where it stalled because Bush couldn't convert a new set of downs.I'll give you one... the fumble. That's it. Do you really think the Saints lost because they couldn't RUN for first downs?

I'll give you a couple more:1-10-NO 14 (14:56) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short left to 25-R.Bush.

2-10-NO 14 (14:51) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 20 for 6 yards (55-D.Williams).

3-4-NO 20 (14:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees sacked at NO 13 for -7 yards (91-E.Ekuban).

4-11-NO 13 (13:41) 7-S.Weatherford punts 54 yards to DEN 33, Center-47-K.Houser. 19-E.Royal to NO 45 for 22 yards (86-B.Ortega).

Hmmm... let's see where did the running game fail to keep the drive going? OH wait, they didn't call a running play... that's right, the playcalling has been bad. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 20 (2:55) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 88-J.Shockey to NO 34 for 14 yards (53-N.Koutouvides, 58-N.Webster).

Timeout #1 by DEN at 02:34.

1-10-NO 34 (2:34) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass deep middle to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 47 for 19 yards (55-D.Williams).

1-10-DEN 47 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to DEN 31 for 16 yards (33-M.Manuel).

Two-Minute Warning

1-10-DEN 31 (2:00) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush to DEN 30 for 1 yard (92-E.Dumervil).

2-9-DEN 30 (1:35) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 83-B.Miller to DEN 17 for 13 yards (51-J.Winborn).

1-10-DEN 17 (1:11) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 17-R.Meachem to DEN 5 for 12 yards (20-M.McCree; 32-D.Bly). Penalty on DEN-32-D.Bly, Illegal Contact, declined.

1-5-DEN 5 (1:03) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 81-D.Patten to DEN 1 for 4 yards (41-K.Paymah; 97-B.Bailey).

Timeout #2 by DEN at 00:57.

2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).

Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:46.

3-1-DEN 1 46) 9-D.Brees FUMBLES (Aborted) at DEN 1, recovered by NO-44-M.Karney at DEN 1. 44-M.Karney to DEN 1 for no gain (60-J.Engelberger). Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.

Timeout #3 by NO at 00:31.

4-1-DEN 1 31) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (58-N.Webster).

Hmmm... let's see where did Bush fail to keep the drive going? No, that's Pierre Thomas in there, and he's not as good as Bush. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 36 (13:58) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 44-M.Karney to NO 37 for 1 yard (55-D.Williams).

2-9-NO 37 (13:21) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 40 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).

3-6-NO 40 (12:44) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 25-R.Bush.

4-6-NO 40 (12:39) 7-S.Weatherford punts 60 yards to end zone, Center-47-K.Houser, Touchback.

Hmmm... let's see where did the running game fail to keep the drive going? Oh wait, they didn't call a running play... that's right, the playcalling has been bad. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 21 (5:33) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Shockey (58-N.Webster).

2-10-NO 21 (5:28) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to NO 29 for 8 yards (55-D.Williams, 33-M.Manuel).

3-2-NO 29 (4:52) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 48 for 23 yards (41-K.Paymah, 97-B.Bailey). DEN-97-B.Bailey was injured during the play.

1-10-DEN 48 (4:19) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 16-L.Moore to DEN 33 for 15 yards (51-J.Winborn).

1-10-DEN 33 (3:35) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 26 for 7 yards (33-M.Manuel). DEN-20-M.McCree was injured during the play.

2-3-DEN 26 (3:04) 25-R.Bush up the middle to DEN 24 for 2 yards (63-D.Robertson).

3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).

Two-Minute Warning

4-2-DEN 25 (2:00) 1-M.Gramatica 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

Hmmm... Bush gets 9 yards running, leaving 3rd and 1, that's a pretty good running game. Oh, but then they pull in Pierre Thomas, who is not as good as Bush. Thanks for pointing that out

Did you watch the game? The running game had ZERO to do with the loss.

Let's see, a back and forth game where the opposing offense is pretty much carving up your D. Maybe, just maybe if they could've grinded the clock down they would've pulled that game out. Just a thought....

Yeah, but that's playcalling... not Bush. Sorry, but your "argument" here is unfounded. All you've pointed out is that the playcalling was terrible, and while Bush was running well (4.5 YPC on the carries you thought were evidence of his suckitude), Pierre Thomas kept getting stuffed. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but nothing in there supports your anti-Bush stance.

 

[TheFanatic]

You gotta wonder how that Denver game would've turned out if they would've been able to pound the rock and keep that potent Denver O off the field?

Point to ONE drive where it stalled because Bush couldn't convert a new set of downs.I'll give you one... the fumble. That's it. Do you really think the Saints lost because they couldn't RUN for first downs?

I'll give you a couple more:1-10-NO 14 (14:56) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short left to 25-R.Bush.

2-10-NO 14 (14:51) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 20 for 6 yards (55-D.Williams).

3-4-NO 20 (14:13) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees sacked at NO 13 for -7 yards (91-E.Ekuban).

4-11-NO 13 (13:41) 7-S.Weatherford punts 54 yards to DEN 33, Center-47-K.Houser. 19-E.Royal to NO 45 for 22 yards (86-B.Ortega).

Hmmm... let's see where did the running game fail to keep the drive going? OH wait, they didn't call a running play... that's right, the playcalling has been bad. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 20 (2:55) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 88-J.Shockey to NO 34 for 14 yards (53-N.Koutouvides, 58-N.Webster).

Timeout #1 by DEN at 02:34.

1-10-NO 34 (2:34) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass deep middle to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 47 for 19 yards (55-D.Williams).

1-10-DEN 47 (2:09) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to DEN 31 for 16 yards (33-M.Manuel).

Two-Minute Warning

1-10-DEN 31 (2:00) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 25-R.Bush to DEN 30 for 1 yard (92-E.Dumervil).

2-9-DEN 30 (1:35) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short middle to 83-B.Miller to DEN 17 for 13 yards (51-J.Winborn).

1-10-DEN 17 (1:11) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 17-R.Meachem to DEN 5 for 12 yards (20-M.McCree; 32-D.Bly). Penalty on DEN-32-D.Bly, Illegal Contact, declined.

1-5-DEN 5 (1:03) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 81-D.Patten to DEN 1 for 4 yards (41-K.Paymah; 97-B.Bailey).

Timeout #2 by DEN at 00:57.

2-1-DEN 1 57) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (63-D.Robertson, 55-D.Williams).

Timeout #3 by DEN at 00:46.

3-1-DEN 1 46) 9-D.Brees FUMBLES (Aborted) at DEN 1, recovered by NO-44-M.Karney at DEN 1. 44-M.Karney to DEN 1 for no gain (60-J.Engelberger). Play Challenged by Replay Assistant and Upheld.

Timeout #3 by NO at 00:31.

4-1-DEN 1 31) 23-P.Thomas up the middle to DEN 1 for no gain (58-N.Webster).

Hmmm... let's see where did Bush fail to keep the drive going? No, that's Pierre Thomas in there, and he's not as good as Bush. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 36 (13:58) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 44-M.Karney to NO 37 for 1 yard (55-D.Williams).

2-9-NO 37 (13:21) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 16-L.Moore to NO 40 for 3 yards (55-D.Williams).

3-6-NO 40 (12:44) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short right to 25-R.Bush.

4-6-NO 40 (12:39) 7-S.Weatherford punts 60 yards to end zone, Center-47-K.Houser, Touchback.

Hmmm... let's see where did the running game fail to keep the drive going? Oh wait, they didn't call a running play... that's right, the playcalling has been bad. Thanks for pointing that out

1-10-NO 21 (5:33) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass incomplete short middle to 88-J.Shockey (58-N.Webster).

2-10-NO 21 (5:28) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 88-J.Shockey to NO 29 for 8 yards (55-D.Williams, 33-M.Manuel).

3-2-NO 29 (4:52) (Shotgun) 9-D.Brees pass short right to 19-D.Henderson to DEN 48 for 23 yards (41-K.Paymah, 97-B.Bailey). DEN-97-B.Bailey was injured during the play.

1-10-DEN 48 (4:19) 9-D.Brees pass short left to 16-L.Moore to DEN 33 for 15 yards (51-J.Winborn).

1-10-DEN 33 (3:35) 25-R.Bush right tackle to DEN 26 for 7 yards (33-M.Manuel). DEN-20-M.McCree was injured during the play.

2-3-DEN 26 (3:04) 25-R.Bush up the middle to DEN 24 for 2 yards (63-D.Robertson).

3-1-DEN 24 (2:19) 23-P.Thomas right guard to DEN 25 for -1 yards (55-D.Williams).

Two-Minute Warning

4-2-DEN 25 (2:00) 1-M.Gramatica 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Right, Center-47-K.Houser, Holder-7-S.Weatherford.

Hmmm... Bush gets 9 yards running, leaving 3rd and 1, that's a pretty good running game. Oh, but then they pull in Pierre Thomas, who is not as good as Bush. Thanks for pointing that out

Did you watch the game? The running game had ZERO to do with the loss.

Let's see, a back and forth game where the opposing offense is pretty much carving up your D. Maybe, just maybe if they could've grinded the clock down they would've pulled that game out. Just a thought....

Yeah, but that's playcalling... not Bush. Sorry, but your "argument" here is unfounded. All you've pointed out is that the playcalling was terrible, and while Bush was running well (4.5 YPC on the carries you thought were evidence of his suckitude), Pierre Thomas kept getting stuffed. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but nothing in there supports your anti-Bush stance.

OK, so because they don't put Bush in for short yardage plays or because they have to pass it's everyone else's fault that Bush doesn't get those tough yards to extend drives. It's bad play calling to have to pass when they can't convert a 3rd and 1 or a 4th and 1 on the ground. The reason he's not out there is because he's a terrible RB. The reason they have to call pass plays is because Bush collapses like a cheap tent the minuted D-lineman brushes his pads with his pinky.

 

[Magnum]

Fanatic..........just stop man. You're getting...well....how should I put it......CARVED UP....YOUR BUTT HANDED TO YOU.....PUNKED.....CLOWNED....ETC. ETC. Dude, going in to the year you had a few points to argue, but now you're just digging your heels in like a scorned woman.

 

[Judge Smails]

now children....

 

[valhallan]

Did you watch the game? The running game had ZERO to do with the loss.

Let's see, a back and forth game where the opposing offense is pretty much carving up your D. Maybe, just maybe if they could've grinded the clock down they would've pulled that game out. Just a thought....

You didn't answer his question. Did you watch the game?

 

[switz]

OK, so because they don't put Bush in for short yardage plays or because they have to pass it's everyone else's fault that Bush doesn't get those tough yards to extend drives. It's bad play calling to have to pass when they can't convert a 3rd and 1 or a 4th and 1 on the ground.

It's getting to the point where you are starting to embarrass yourself. Fact is, when they have run Bush in short yardage situations, the majority of the time they have succeeded. As was already pointed out in this thread. You make assertions here, with no evidence to back it up it all. You throw out stats, and claim they mean something - which they don't support. In fact, the only RB who failed to convert a third and short was Thomas, who you claim is the better RB, because he "can run inside". Hey buddy, it's time to face the facts... every time Bush was called on in short yardage situations, he got the yards. Every time Thomas was used, he failed. Can you get that through your head?

The reason he's not out there is because he's a terrible RB. The reason they have to call pass plays is because Bush collapses like a cheap tent the minuted D-lineman brushes his pads with his pinky.

You are so wrong about Bush it's beyond laughable... it's pathetic. Miserably inadequate in your grasp of what is a good or bad RB... as you argue Thomas is better, while you are so far wrong. I'm done with you... it's not worth the effort. I thought at first you were just ignorant... now I see you're obstinate.

 

[Big Dumb Ape]

Hey Fanatic>Stick to steak, man

 

[Chaka]

The reason he's not out there is because he's a terrible RB. The reason they have to call pass plays is because Bush collapses like a cheap tent the minuted D-lineman brushes his pads with his pinky.

This tells me that you are not in this thread to make any meaningful contribution. I didn't think you were a type of guy Fanatic.

 

[Blackjacks]

I think it's time to stop posting about this thread Scotty. Your getting owned here buddy.

 

[TheFanatic]

The reason he's not out there is because he's a terrible RB. The reason they have to call pass plays is because Bush collapses like a cheap tent the minuted D-lineman brushes his pads with his pinky.

This tells me that you are not in this thread to make any meaningful contribution. I didn't think you were a type of guy Fanatic.

It's been a long time. I think the last time I did it was about Priest Holmes one of the 3 years he was a monster. I had a good haul. These are few and far between....Ah well, I've had my fun. And the best part is that I have built up such a frenzy that when he has a bad game and I bump this thread, despite this post, guys will be lining up to jump into the boat.Just watch how many people jump at the bait from this post alone!?!?!