Cam Newton vs Russell WIlson : Who would you pay big money for? (1 Viewer)

[JaxBill]

News is filtering out that Cam newton's new contract is almost ready and whispers are that it will be for approx 5/105

Russell WIlson is waiting to be paid.

Who do you pay and why?

 

[zed2283]

That's the going rate. I think the NFL needs to address this at some point, maybe in the next CBA. One player making ~17+% of the cap just causes everything to get out of whack.

 

[spider321]

Options 4 and 5 are basically the same.

 

[JaxBill]

Options 4 and 5 are basically the same.

Option 4 is "I don't like it, but they have to do it"

Option 5 is "I don't like it and it's going to mess up the cap."

 

[spider321]

Options 4 and 5 are basically the same.

Option 4 is "I don't like it, but they have to do it"

Option 5 is "I don't like it and it's going to mess up the cap."

Those two options are not mutually exclusive.

Options 4 and 5 are both true.

 

[NCCommish]

Cam is going to get more Tannenhill and less than Wilson/Luck. Seems about right to me.

 

[FUBAR]

Options 4 and 5 are basically the same.

Option 4 is "I don't like it, but they have to do it"

Option 5 is "I don't like it and it's going to mess up the cap."

Those two options are not mutually exclusive.

Options 4 and 5 are both true.

Is it really messing up the cap if the team's chances to win are better with the qb? The point of cap management is to put the best team on the field (some would add "over time").

 

[FUBAR]

Cam is going to get more Tannenhill and less than Wilson/Luck. Seems about right to me.

Yep. Cam is one of the top 5 (at worst 10) QBs in the league (looking forward, which is what the team pays for). He's earned the paycheck.

 

[Donnybrook]

I know that Cam has a terrible O-line but I thought he also played terrible last year. I would not pay him like a franchise QB.

 

[pantherclub]

Reports out of OTAs is that Cam is amazing. Hitting passes and looks physically like a beast. He has his speed back. No need to wait for him to have a career year and have to pay any more than they have to when both parties know he isnt going anywhere.

20 mil is a lot but there is no other choice.

 

[pantherclub]

I know that Cam has a terrible O-line but I thought he also played terrible last year. I would not pay him like a franchise QB.

Dude he was hurt from the word go. All types of injuries (ankle, back, calf) then in add his high school level line and new receivers then I think his play was pretty above average. Once he got sortof healthy at the end of the year he was great. He is above and beyond a franchise qb.

 

[Tau837]

I would pay Wilson more than Newton if given the choice. IMO Wilson is a better QB and better leader, and that is what you pay franchise QBs for. That being said, there obviously aren't enough quality QBs for every team to have one. The Panthers and Seahawks are basically forced to pay these guys.

Someone made the claim earlier that Newton is a top 5 QB going forward. IMO that is questionable, but there is no question he is in the top half of QBs in the league, and I think he has *potential* to be a top 5 QB. In today's NFL, that is worth $20M/year. IMO Wilson is already a top 5 QB (thinking long term), and thus is obviously worth it.

To put it another way, imagine either of these teams don't pay their QB and let him walk. Sure, they could then spend that $20M/year on other positions, but would it matter? Odds are they would then have to play one or more journeyman QBs for some number of years until they can draft another QB at the top of the draft who doesn't bust. That could mean years of sub .500 play and missing the postseason.

While the best scenario is to have a top QB under a cheap rookie contract, as the Seahawks have had, the next best scenario is to have a top QB for whom you are paying market value.

 

[Soulfly3]

Reports out of OTAs is that Cam is amazing. Hitting passes and looks physically like a beast. He has his speed back.

Heard he's been chewing his gum even more authoritatively.

 

[stratocatter]

I voted supply and demand; neither deserve that kind of money, but you have to pay them the going rate.

FWIW, I am no pro evaluator but think Wilson is about topped out where Cam still has not reached his potential (which I would judge to be greater than Wilson's).

 

[Sweet Love]

Very few human beings "deserve" $20mm/yr, especially athletes, but I actually voted they deserve it given the context of where others signed and the impact on the position. I don't think 17% of the cap is too much for one individual when they are worth about 25% of a team's wins on their own (or considering WAR).

As a Jets fan, I would take Wilson, and dump Revis in a heartbeat. I would also take Wilson and dump Cro and Marshall...they are all great players, but the way the game is made, it does not really work without a QB. Most have the Jets going 8-8 with a defense that on paper, could be one of the best in a decade. They have two pro bowlers on the line, two good WRs, and two decent TEs...what is missing to hold them back from the play offs (let alone a ring)...QB.

 

[The Commish]

Shouldn't be a question that Cam's ceiling is higher. I'd love to see Cam playing with the team Wilson's played with and vice versa. If Cam continues to progress in leadership like he has the last 3 years it's a no brainer to me....pay Cam.

 

[KCBuc]

I debated with pay Russel verse Supply/Demand. I went with Russel because he makes that team work, understands how to win the big games, and nothing seems to big for him. He, imo, should have been a Super Bowl champ again except the coach called the most bone headed play in Super Bowl history.

Carolina like Tampa doesn't need to buy the best QB they can. The need to invest their money in an Oline that can block. I'd rather be set in the trenches and then pay the big money to a QB. Paying Cam big guaranteed money with the team around him is a mistake if they have Super Bowl dreams. This is not the case with Wilson.

 

[pantherclub]

I debated with pay Russel verse Supply/Demand. I went with Russel because he makes that team work, understands how to win the big games, and nothing seems to big for him. He, imo, should have been a Super Bowl champ again except the coach called the most bone headed play in Super Bowl history.

Carolina like Tampa doesn't need to buy the best QB they can. The need to invest their money in an Oline that can block. I'd rather be set in the trenches and then pay the big money to a QB. Paying Cam big guaranteed money with the team around him is a mistake if they have Super Bowl dreams. This is not the case with Wilson.

How exactly is that supposed to work? His deal is up after this year. Its either pay now or pay a whole lot later.

 

[Tau837]

Shouldn't be a question that Cam's ceiling is higher.

Based on what? I certainly don't think that is a given.

 

[FUBAR]

I would pay Wilson more than Newton if given the choice. IMO Wilson is a better QB and better leader, and that is what you pay franchise QBs for. That being said, there obviously aren't enough quality QBs for every team to have one. The Panthers and Seahawks are basically forced to pay these guys.

Someone made the claim earlier that Newton is a top 5 QB going forward. IMO that is questionable, but there is no question he is in the top half of QBs in the league, and I think he has *potential* to be a top 5 QB. In today's NFL, that is worth $20M/year. IMO Wilson is already a top 5 QB (thinking long term), and thus is obviously worth it.

To put it another way, imagine either of these teams don't pay their QB and let him walk. Sure, they could then spend that $20M/year on other positions, but would it matter? Odds are they would then have to play one or more journeyman QBs for some number of years until they can draft another QB at the top of the draft who doesn't bust. That could mean years of sub .500 play and missing the postseason.

While the best scenario is to have a top QB under a cheap rookie contract, as the Seahawks have had, the next best scenario is to have a top QB for whom you are paying market value.

Understand that it's mostly potential but it's based on what he's shown in the league, not college or raw talent. But really, other than Luck and maybe Wilson there isn't a qb under 31 who I take over him for the next couple years and nobody else I take over him for the next decade. Imo, it's

Luck

cam / Wilson

teddy, Tannehill, Stafford, Ryan, a few others

your opinion may differ of course

And then of course there's the question of how much Rodgers, Brees, Ben etc are worth over the next 5 years.

 

[JaxBill]

According to Schefter and others on twitter, 5 years 103.5 Mil. 67.6 Mil first 3 years, 60 mil guaranteed.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

 

[pantherclub]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

and get t boned

 

[FUBAR]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

Russell might be better right now (okay, he is) but how much of that is the line and better rb? Not that stew is bad but he isn't lynch.And yeah, getting hit by a truck wasn't his fault.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

Have to agree with the first part of this. Cam absolutely has the skill and shows flashes, but if I am an NFL team, would much rather be paying on proven consistent success than potential.

 

[The Commish]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

and get t boned

and having ankle surgery...but other than that, yeah.

 

[RenegadeRoy]

Wilson is great, but plug him into the Panthers team that Cam had last year, and even without the injuries that Cam had, would Wilson have done any better?

 

[The Commish]

Shouldn't be a question that Cam's ceiling is higher.

Based on what? I certainly don't think that is a given.

Based on where they are in their football careers. For all intents and purposes, Wilson is 5+ years ahead in experience of being an actual QB. You'll see this as a slight towards Wilson, but it isn't. I'm not going further down this rabbit hole. I know where it leads.

 

[KCBuc]

I wouldn't give him big money. Don't think they have the pieces to win and this has to hurt their cap.

I debated with pay Russel verse Supply/Demand. I went with Russel because he makes that team work, understands how to win the big games, and nothing seems to big for him. He, imo, should have been a Super Bowl champ again except the coach called the most bone headed play in Super Bowl history.

Carolina like Tampa doesn't need to buy the best QB they can. The need to invest their money in an Oline that can block. I'd rather be set in the trenches and then pay the big money to a QB. Paying Cam big guaranteed money with the team around him is a mistake if they have Super Bowl dreams. This is not the case with Wilson.

How exactly is that supposed to work? His deal is up after this year. Its either pay now or pay a whole lot later.

 

[The Commish]

Wilson is great, but plug him into the Panthers team that Cam had last year, and even without the injuries that Cam had, would Wilson have done any better?

As I said before, I'd love to see Cam in the Seattle offense (out from under his OC) and Wilson put in that offense and see how they did. Of the two, I'd guess that Cam came closer to reproducing his levels of success.

 

[The Commish]

I wouldn't give him big money. Don't think they have the pieces to win and this has to hurt their cap.

I debated with pay Russel verse Supply/Demand. I went with Russel because he makes that team work, understands how to win the big games, and nothing seems to big for him. He, imo, should have been a Super Bowl champ again except the coach called the most bone headed play in Super Bowl history.

Carolina like Tampa doesn't need to buy the best QB they can. The need to invest their money in an Oline that can block. I'd rather be set in the trenches and then pay the big money to a QB. Paying Cam big guaranteed money with the team around him is a mistake if they have Super Bowl dreams. This is not the case with Wilson.

How exactly is that supposed to work? His deal is up after this year. Its either pay now or pay a whole lot later.

They need a left tackle on the o-line. He's made it work the last two years with the staff in place and the staff is only getting better. "Has no weapons" isn't really all that valid anymore IMO. Yeah, there'll be ups and downs because of the youth in the WR core, but they have nowhere to go but up.

 

[Tau837]

Shouldn't be a question that Cam's ceiling is higher.

Based on what? I certainly don't think that is a given.

Based on where they are in their football careers. For all intents and purposes, Wilson is 5+ years ahead in experience of being an actual QB. You'll see this as a slight towards Wilson, but it isn't. I'm not going further down this rabbit hole. I know where it leads.

Strange to throw out something as a certainty, when it is far from a certainty (as evidenced by other posts in this thread as well as mine), and then be unwilling to discuss it. To each his own, I guess.

 

[Tau837]

Wilson is great, but plug him into the Panthers team that Cam had last year, and even without the injuries that Cam had, would Wilson have done any better?

Obviously, it is impossible to prove one way or the other, but IMO the answer is yes. The logic is pretty straightforward. Wilson is a better QB, and thus would have fared better.

 

[FUBAR]

Wilson is great, but plug him into the Panthers team that Cam had last year, and even without the injuries that Cam had, would Wilson have done any better?

Obviously, it is impossible to prove one way or the other, but IMO the answer is yes. The logic is pretty straightforward. Wilson is a better QB, and thus would have fared better.

If only it were that easy.

We know Wilson got drafted by a better team at the time. A team that was 7-9 with travaris Jackson. Other than that it's a lot of guessing.

 

[TDorBust]

Whats the point of the question? What good quarterback is not worth more than almost the rest of the team combined? (MVP check) If anything I would even accept 30% of my salary going to an elite QB if that is what they were asking....

Rodgers, Manning, Brady, and pretty soon Luck all give their team such a better chance to win its not even funny. Look at the Packers with how much they develop through the draft at this point.

Example: Packers could kill off Matthews salary of $13.2/yr and give Rodgers a total of $35/yr and I would be more than happy to say good move to the Packers front office if the Cowboys or Jets or Oakland was willing to offer more.

Wilson/Newton both are great young quarterbacks on the up and can and will command top dollar. Do you think if Wilson doesn't get his money in Seattle he can't get it from 20+ other teams in the league? You pretty much can't win without a top level talent and while I would not call either elite they are still both early in their careers.

In the last 25 years there is basically 2 QBs that people would define as below average (Dilfer/Johnson) and 1 QB (Flacco - who played out of his mind that playoffs) who people would call average that have won a Super Bowl. You don't need an elite QB to win but you sure as heck need a very good one.

 

[drfeelgood]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

You do know that Cam was coming off of ankle surgery to start the season right? He wasn't ok from that surgery until well into the season. He hurt his ribs, but a lot of QBs hurt their ribs. He also had a car accident which has nothing to do with being reckless on the field.

 

[TDorBust]

That's the going rate. I think the NFL needs to address this at some point, maybe in the next CBA. One player making ~17+% of the cap just causes everything to get out of whack.

Question, is anyone even close to as valuable as a top QB?

Also we want to allow what the NBA has done and eliminate the ability of a team to vastly overpay to lure Lebron James to their city. If we limit how much a QB can make its only going to help the Packers and Colts in the near future as they not only have the best QB but they would get them at the same cost as likely 15-20 other QBs as I would suspect most QBs would end up towards the cap you would want to put in place since you feel 17% is way too much for a QB.

 

[drfeelgood]

Wilson/Newton both are great young quarterbacks on the up and can and will command top dollar. Do you think if Wilson doesn't get his money in Seattle he can't get it from 20+ other teams in the league? You pretty much can't win without a top level talent and while I would not call either elite they are still both early in their careers.

In the last 25 years there is basically 2 QBs that people would define as below average (Dilfer/Johnson) and 1 QB (Flacco - who played out of his mind that playoffs) who people would call average that have won a Super Bowl. You don't need an elite QB to win but you sure as heck need a very good one.

I agree with you.

 

[CapnJB]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

Russell might be better right now (okay, he is) but how much of that is the line and better rb? Not that stew is bad but he isn't lynch.And yeah, getting hit by a truck wasn't his fault.

2010 - Hasselbeck had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2011 - Jackson had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2012 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 11-5

2013 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 13-3

2014 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 12-4 /

eta-

2007 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2008 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2009 - The Bills with Lynch were 6-10

So... his only seasons on a team that was over .500 were with Wilson

Does he make Wilson better or does Wilson make him better? Dunno.

 

[FUBAR]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

Russell might be better right now (okay, he is) but how much of that is the line and better rb? Not that stew is bad but he isn't lynch.And yeah, getting hit by a truck wasn't his fault.

2010 - Hasselbeck had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2011 - Jackson had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2012 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 11-5

2013 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 13-3

2014 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 12-4 /

eta-

2007 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2008 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2009 - The Bills with Lynch were 6-10

So... his only seasons on a team that was over .500 were with Wilson

Does he make Wilson better or does Wilson make him better? Dunno.

Nobody is arguing whether Wilson makes the Seahawks better. they were already a good team before he got there. He helped, along with a few key defensive players, to make them great.

Cam, along with a few key defensive players, took a bad team and helped make them very good.

Both guys deserve to be among the highest paid players in the league.

 

[Ghost Rider]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

You do know that Cam was coming off of ankle surgery to start the season right? He wasn't ok from that surgery until well into the season. He hurt his ribs, but a lot of QBs hurt their ribs. He also had a car accident which has nothing to do with being reckless on the field.

I understand all of that, but a QB cannot take the many hits that Cam does and have a long career, and since this thread is about who you would give money to, for the future, the answer, to me, is clearly Wilson, since he is younger, better, and more likely to have a long career.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think Cam has been the guy he's been because he had to. They haven't given him great weapons to work with in the passing game, the running game has been inconsistent at best, and the offensive line has been awful. He's had to rely on his legs because the offense didn't have much else to rely on. Kudos to him for being able to make something out of nothing so often.

Russell could afford to play things safe... the safe throws, the safe runs - because he's had the support of a great running game and a great offensive line, and an offense imaginative enough to take advantage of the skills that he has. Cam has had none of those things.

If you're going to have me pick which guy to pay and they're going to be playing on the same team, the answer isn't close at all, and it's Cam.

 

[ZWK]

The top QBs are drastically underpaid. If they were paid enough to match how much they help their team win, then Manning, Brady, Rodgers, etc. would not be making the playoffs every year.

Newton & Wilson aren't quite on that level, but they're still easily worth $20M.

 

[Englishteacher]

I think Cam has been the guy he's been because he had to. They haven't given him great weapons to work with in the passing game, the running game has been inconsistent at best, and the offensive line has been awful. He's had to rely on his legs because the offense didn't have much else to rely on. Kudos to him for being able to make something out of nothing so often.

Russell could afford to play things safe... the safe throws, the safe runs - because he's had the support of a great running game and a great offensive line, and an offense imaginative enough to take advantage of the skills that he has. Cam has had none of those things.

If you're going to have me pick which guy to pay and they're going to be playing on the same team, the answer isn't close at all, and it's Cam.

Interesting. I'm a Panthers fan and I still think I'd rather have Wilson as I think he's a better passer but you make some good valid points.

 

[The Commish]

Strange to throw out something as a certainty, when it is far from a certainty (as evidenced by other posts in this thread as well as mine), and then be unwilling to discuss it. To each his own, I guess.

This is why there is no point in discussing. Your mind's made up:

Obviously, it is impossible to prove one way or the other, but IMO the answer is yes. The logic is pretty straightforward. Wilson is a better QB, and thus would have fared better.

There's nothing I could say to you to change your mind. It doesn't matter to you that Cam's at a different place in his QB development. It doesn't matter to you that the team make ups were completely different. It doesn't matter to you that the offensive philosophies are completely different asking the QBs to do completely different things. I don't see how Wilson could handle being a "zone read" QB with no supplemental running game.

 

[Yenrub]

I think Cam has been the guy he's been because he had to. They haven't given him great weapons to work with in the passing game, the running game has been inconsistent at best, and the offensive line has been awful. He's had to rely on his legs because the offense didn't have much else to rely on. Kudos to him for being able to make something out of nothing so often.

Russell could afford to play things safe... the safe throws, the safe runs - because he's had the support of a great running game and a great offensive line, and an offense imaginative enough to take advantage of the skills that he has. Cam has had none of those things.

If you're going to have me pick which guy to pay and they're going to be playing on the same team, the answer isn't close at all, and it's Cam.

I'm not so sure the Seahawks offensive line fits into the "great" category

 

[TDorBust]

This isn't close.

Wilson is better at throwing the ball (Cam is far too inaccurate at times), running the ball (Wilson knows how to protect himself far better than Cam), and being a leader.

Remember how hurt and broken down Cam looked last season? That is what happens when you throw your body around with reckless abandon. Wilson never does that.

Russell might be better right now (okay, he is) but how much of that is the line and better rb? Not that stew is bad but he isn't lynch.And yeah, getting hit by a truck wasn't his fault.

2010 - Hasselbeck had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2011 - Jackson had Lynch and the team was 7-9

2012 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 11-5

2013 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 13-3

2014 - Wilson had Lynch and the team was 12-4 /

eta-

2007 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2008 - The Bills with Lynch were 7-9

2009 - The Bills with Lynch were 6-10

So... his only seasons on a team that was over .500 were with Wilson

Does he make Wilson better or does Wilson make him better? Dunno.

Nobody is arguing whether Wilson makes the Seahawks better. they were already a good team before he got there. He helped, along with a few key defensive players, to make them great.

Cam, along with a few key defensive players, took a bad team and helped make them very good.

Both guys deserve to be among the highest paid players in the league.

Did we forget the defence on the Seahawks in this sidebar? I like Wilson and he does make them better but they are not a Super Bowl team without a defence. If you didn't have Jackson under center the year before Wilson they likely win another 2-3 games as that is the year the defence made a huge jump:

Year - Yards Allowed Rank - Points Allowed Rank

2008 - 30 - 25

2009 - 24 - 25

2010 - 27 - 25

2011 - 9 - 7

2012 - 4 - 1

2013 - 1 - 1

2014 - 1 - 1

Does Wilson help? Yes I think he helps a lot with not turning over the ball and good/great QB play but the defence is the one carrying this team to such a high level, where as Newton is asked to carry the team himself more (not that Wilson couldn't be capable of it just hasn't shown it yet). In the end even a great defence needs an above average QB, look back at the Ravens over the last 20 years and all the top defences they have had that went to waste because they did not have a good QB (Flacco woke up in 2012 when the defence was average to win a Super Bowl but prior to that was very mediocre and average).

Year - Yards Allowed Rank - Points Allowed Rank

1999 - 2 - 6

2000 - 2 - 1 (Super Bowl)

2001 - 2 - 4 (Division Round)

2003 - 3 - 6 (WC Round)

2004 - 6 - 6

2006 - 1 - 1 (Division Round)

2008 - 2 - 3 (Conference Round)

2009 - 3 - 3 (Division Round)

2010 - 10 - 3 (Division Round)

2011 - 3 - 3 (Conference Round)

2014 - 8 - 6 (Division Round)

What's the point? Going to my comments up a few responses "You don't need an elite QB to win but you sure as heck need a very good one." There is just different levels of QB play needed based on your surrounding team and unfortunately/fortunately Wilson has been on a team with a great defence where he's not asked to do what Newton has had to do.

 

[The Commish]

I think Cam has been the guy he's been because he had to. They haven't given him great weapons to work with in the passing game, the running game has been inconsistent at best, and the offensive line has been awful. He's had to rely on his legs because the offense didn't have much else to rely on. Kudos to him for being able to make something out of nothing so often.

Russell could afford to play things safe... the safe throws, the safe runs - because he's had the support of a great running game and a great offensive line, and an offense imaginative enough to take advantage of the skills that he has. Cam has had none of those things.

If you're going to have me pick which guy to pay and they're going to be playing on the same team, the answer isn't close at all, and it's Cam.

I'm not so sure the Seahawks offensive line fits into the "great" category

When comparing them to the Carolina offensive line? "Great" is an appropriate term to use as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Tau837]

Strange to throw out something as a certainty, when it is far from a certainty (as evidenced by other posts in this thread as well as mine), and then be unwilling to discuss it. To each his own, I guess.

This is why there is no point in discussing. Your mind's made up:

Obviously, it is impossible to prove one way or the other, but IMO the answer is yes. The logic is pretty straightforward. Wilson is a better QB, and thus would have fared better.

There's nothing I could say to you to change your mind. It doesn't matter to you that Cam's at a different place in his QB development. It doesn't matter to you that the team make ups were completely different. It doesn't matter to you that the offensive philosophies are completely different asking the QBs to do completely different things. I don't see how Wilson could handle being a "zone read" QB with no supplemental running game.

I am always open to logical, reasoned arguments on a subject I am interested in discussing, and this is no different. But that requires actual, you know, discussion.

You accuse me of having my mind made up. Are you saying you don't? You're the one who opened by posting something as a certainty that many in this thread disagree with.

 

[Tau837]

I think Cam has been the guy he's been because he had to. They haven't given him great weapons to work with in the passing game, the running game has been inconsistent at best, and the offensive line has been awful. He's had to rely on his legs because the offense didn't have much else to rely on. Kudos to him for being able to make something out of nothing so often.

Russell could afford to play things safe... the safe throws, the safe runs - because he's had the support of a great running game and a great offensive line, and an offense imaginative enough to take advantage of the skills that he has. Cam has had none of those things.

If you're going to have me pick which guy to pay and they're going to be playing on the same team, the answer isn't close at all, and it's Cam.

at calling the Seahawks offensive line 'great'.

During Wilson's 3 years in the NFL, Carolina has had a better run blocking OL and Seattle has had a better pass blocking OL, but Seattle's OL pass blocking has still been below average.

ETA: PFF grades from 2014 show the following:

Seattle had 11 OL who played last season.

Seattle OL cumulative overall grade: -45.2

Seattle OL cumulative pass blocking grade: -26.3

Seattle OL cumulative run blocking grade: -9.9

Seattle OL cumulative screen blocking grade: +1.5

Seattle OL cumulative penalties grade: -10.5

Carolina had 12 OL who played last season.

Carolina OL cumulative overall grade: -52.5

Carolina OL cumulative pass blocking grade: -51.7

Carolina OL cumulative run blocking grade: -6.7

Carolina OL cumulative screen blocking grade: +2.5

Carolina OL cumulative penalties grade: +3.4

The Carolina OL was much worse at pass blocking in 2014, but better at everything else.