can a corner pancake a WR from "jamming" (2 Viewers)

[drcrappants]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?

how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

 

[JuSt CuZ]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

Is a corner gonna "pancake" Colston or Moss...i.e. the big receivers....NO, not because its not allowed, but because they cant!I believe its legal, just hard to do for the small guys when a wr blasts from the line!

 

[drcrappants]

ha, that's very interesting. one of the corners should surprise a lazy WR one day

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

legal?

Yup

 

[Godsbrother]

Last week the Steelers DB were giving huge cushions, even in 3rd and short situations. I am convinced they would have won the game if they would have jammed the receivers a bit (not necessarily pancake them). Unfortunately they were playing off 5-10 yards and Cutler just picked them apart.

If I were an offensive cooridinator playing the Steelers I would do nothing but quick 4-5 yard outs and slants all day long.

 

[otis68]

Last week the Steelers DB were giving huge cushions, even in 3rd and short situations. I am convinced they would have won the game if they would have jammed the receivers a bit (not necessarily pancake them). Unfortunately they were playing off 5-10 yards and Cutler just picked them apart.If I were an offensive cooridinator playing the Steelers I would do nothing but quick 4-5 yard outs and slants all day long.

How much of this was the conditions on the field?

 

[Cenobite]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

It is legal but I don't think it is called a "pancake". The reason you don't see it much is because if the corner's intention is to knock down the WR the corner will need to plant his feet to deliver the hit. WRs have to be light on their feet. If they see the corner zeroing in on them, the WR will simply side step and fly by the corner leading to a TD or long gain. The risk, in this case, does not justify the reward.

 

[mbuehner]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

It is legal but I don't think it is called a "pancake". The reason you don't see it much is because if the corner's intention is to knock down the WR the corner will need to plant his feet to deliver the hit. WRs have to be light on their feet. If they see the corner zeroing in on them, the WR will simply side step and fly by the corner leading to a TD or long gain. The risk, in this case, does not justify the reward.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Not if his name is Hines ward.

 

[Godsbrother]

Last week the Steelers DB were giving huge cushions, even in 3rd and short situations. I am convinced they would have won the game if they would have jammed the receivers a bit (not necessarily pancake them). Unfortunately they were playing off 5-10 yards and Cutler just picked them apart.If I were an offensive cooridinator playing the Steelers I would do nothing but quick 4-5 yard outs and slants all day long.

How much of this was the conditions on the field?

Not too much. The Steelers DBs almost always play off the receivers.

 

[puckalicious]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

It is legal but I don't think it is called a "pancake". The reason you don't see it much is because if the corner's intention is to knock down the WR the corner will need to plant his feet to deliver the hit. WRs have to be light on their feet. If they see the corner zeroing in on them, the WR will simply side step and fly by the corner leading to a TD or long gain. The risk, in this case, does not justify the reward.

This. Kind of hard to build up a head of steam to lay the guy out when you are lined up 2 feet away. If the WR can see a DB coming with the thunder, sidestep and boom goes the dynamite.

 

[joffer]

Dr. Death did it to Jack Dundee

 

[Hooper31]

When the Seahawks played Carolina in 2005 on their way to the super bowl they utilized this strategy with WR Steve Smith. Seattle put LB DD Lewis in the game lined up in Smith's face. Lewis hit Smith on every snap at the line of scrimmage as best he could. Obviously he didn't get a solid shot on him every snap, but he got him a few times. I never thought defensive coordinator John Marshall got enough credit for this one time idea. They put a CB over the top behind Lewis while Lewis played underneath. Smith got beat up pretty good that day. 5 receptions for 33 yards was a bit under his season average.

 

[fatkid]

Also, When Offensive linemen get a pancacke, they usually have a good hold of the defender and their sholder pads. I am not certain if you can hold with in the first 5 yards, I think you can only Jam.

Good Memory on the Seattle defense on Steve Smith. That did seem like a great idea that you never saw replicated.

I remember hearing about that last year when someone suggested lining a LB over the QB split out wide in the WildCat and just have them tee off on the Unprotected QB.

 

[drcrappants]

what exactly constitutes as a jam then? pushing, must everything stay inside the frame as a DB as well?

this question is probably a yes, but what about the WR leveling a DB on a pass play?

another q: say the WR is cutting across middle within 5 yards and the LB gets him in zone. pass is in the air to him--can the LB just push him out of the way to defend the pass/knock him over?

 

[Short Corner]

Dr. Death did it to Jack Dundee

and what happened when he missed?

 

[fatkid]

what exactly constitutes as a jam then? pushing, must everything stay inside the frame as a DB as well?this question is probably a yes, but what about the WR leveling a DB on a pass play?another q: say the WR is cutting across middle within 5 yards and the LB gets him in zone. pass is in the air to him--can the LB just push him out of the way to defend the pass/knock him over?

No contact is allowed when the pass is in the air, regardless of the 5 yard rule. The only exception to this is a backward lateral.

 

[Short Corner]

what exactly constitutes as a jam then? pushing, must everything stay inside the frame as a DB as well?this question is probably a yes, but what about the WR leveling a DB on a pass play?another q: say the WR is cutting across middle within 5 yards and the LB gets him in zone. pass is in the air to him--can the LB just push him out of the way to defend the pass/knock him over?

No contact is allowed when the pass is in the air, regardless of the 5 yard rule. The only exception to this is a backward lateral.

I think this is also true if the receiver is behind the line of scrimmage.

 

[renesauz]

When the Seahawks played Carolina in 2005 on their way to the super bowl they utilized this strategy with WR Steve Smith. Seattle put LB DD Lewis in the game lined up in Smith's face. Lewis hit Smith on every snap at the line of scrimmage as best he could. Obviously he didn't get a solid shot on him every snap, but he got him a few times. I never thought defensive coordinator John Marshall got enough credit for this one time idea. They put a CB over the top behind Lewis while Lewis played underneath. Smith got beat up pretty good that day. 5 receptions for 33 yards was a bit under his season average.

Sure, but any time you use TWO defenders to take out one offensive player...the offense wins. I realize teams use double coverage, etc. all the time, but usually the second "coverage" man is actually playing more of a zone with extra attention paid to the offensive player. The scheme you're talking about requires 2 guys giving 100% attention to Smith. While successful, it's only worth it if the rest of the offense sucks.

 

[Maroney=Sped]

Only if the CB is wearing Bad Idea Jeans.

 

[Morton Muffley]

I believe there may have been a play during the Rams-Patriots Superbowl in which McGinest pancaked Marshall Faulk when Faulk split out wide. Not 100% sure if he knocked him down or merely knocked him so far back behind the LOS that he was effectively out of the play. I recall Jaws showing it on his NFL playbook. My guess is that Belichick probably told Mcginest that if the Pats were in a defense that caused McGinest to have to cover Faulk when Faulk split out that it was probably better for McGinest to try to pancake him as there wasn't much chance McGinest to cover him in space. So at least in this case the risk/reward trade-off makes sense. Not sure it makes sense it a typical WR-CB match-up.

 

[Short Corner]

When the Seahawks played Carolina in 2005 on their way to the super bowl they utilized this strategy with WR Steve Smith. Seattle put LB DD Lewis in the game lined up in Smith's face. Lewis hit Smith on every snap at the line of scrimmage as best he could. Obviously he didn't get a solid shot on him every snap, but he got him a few times. I never thought defensive coordinator John Marshall got enough credit for this one time idea. They put a CB over the top behind Lewis while Lewis played underneath. Smith got beat up pretty good that day. 5 receptions for 33 yards was a bit under his season average.

Sure, but any time you use TWO defenders to take out one offensive player...the offense wins. I realize teams use double coverage, etc. all the time, but usually the second "coverage" man is actually playing more of a zone with extra attention paid to the offensive player. The scheme you're talking about requires 2 guys giving 100% attention to Smith. While successful, it's only worth it if the rest of the offense sucks.

Yeah, you let Smith cut the LB and now your RB has a CB to beat in space instead.

 

[Short Corner]

I believe there may have been a play during the Rams-Patriots Superbowl in which McGinest pancaked Marshall Faulk when Faulk split out wide. Not 100% sure if he knocked him down or merely knocked him so far back behind the LOS that he was effectively out of the play. I recall Jaws showing it on his NFL playbook. My guess is that Belichick probably told Mcginest that if the Pats were in a defense that caused McGinest to have to cover Faulk when Faulk split out that it was probably better for McGinest to try to pancake him as there wasn't much chance McGinest to cover him in space. So at least in this case the risk/reward trade-off makes sense. Not sure it makes sense it a typical WR-CB match-up.

Pats got away with a lot of illegal contact that game.

 

[Sidewinder16]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

It is legal but I don't think it is called a "pancake". The reason you don't see it much is because if the corner's intention is to knock down the WR the corner will need to plant his feet to deliver the hit. WRs have to be light on their feet. If they see the corner zeroing in on them, the WR will simply side step and fly by the corner leading to a TD or long gain. The risk, in this case, does not justify the reward.

This. Kind of hard to build up a head of steam to lay the guy out when you are lined up 2 feet away. If the WR can see a DB coming with the thunder, sidestep and boom goes the dynamite.

So, what about during the wildcat formations when QBs split out wide. Why aren't DBs lighting up the QBs who aren't nearly as light on their feet as WRs, and usually aren't even looking to run a pattern?

 

[stevegamer]

When the Seahawks played Carolina in 2005 on their way to the super bowl they utilized this strategy with WR Steve Smith. Seattle put LB DD Lewis in the game lined up in Smith's face. Lewis hit Smith on every snap at the line of scrimmage as best he could. Obviously he didn't get a solid shot on him every snap, but he got him a few times. I never thought defensive coordinator John Marshall got enough credit for this one time idea. They put a CB over the top behind Lewis while Lewis played underneath. Smith got beat up pretty good that day. 5 receptions for 33 yards was a bit under his season average.

Sure, but any time you use TWO defenders to take out one offensive player...the offense wins. I realize teams use double coverage, etc. all the time, but usually the second "coverage" man is actually playing more of a zone with extra attention paid to the offensive player. The scheme you're talking about requires 2 guys giving 100% attention to Smith. While successful, it's only worth it if the rest of the offense sucks.

And that's why it worked so well. Smith was a huge part of their offense, and the CB over the top only plays Smith when it's not an established run play. Additionally, lining a LB over Smith's face, makes running wide that way a lot less attractive.

 

[fatness]

Only if the CB is wearing Bad Idea Jeans.

Or jamming in the name of the lord.

 

[drcrappants]

bump. any vids of this wr pancake or db pancakes?

 

[BespokeJort]

is this legal? snap, corner goes to jam the WR, pushes him hard trying to push him over, and WR is on the floor (this is called pancake correct?). is this legal within the 5 yards of LOS?how about for a WR on a passing play? he doesnt want a corner on him and hes bigger so he knocks him to the floor and runs the route uncovered. legal?

It is legal but I don't think it is called a "pancake". The reason you don't see it much is because if the corner's intention is to knock down the WR the corner will need to plant his feet to deliver the hit. WRs have to be light on their feet. If they see the corner zeroing in on them, the WR will simply side step and fly by the corner leading to a TD or long gain. The risk, in this case, does not justify the reward.

This. As I was taught playing football (admittedly not beyond high school level) a pancake is only made on a block (pancakes is a stat commonly kept for the O-line, notsomuch for tacklers who might get blocked...possibly mainly because you can knock your blocker down and still have been taken out of the play by his blockas to the second part of the above post, he's right--it's not really worth it for a corner to load up enough to knock the avg. WR down (especially since the avg WR is bigger than the avg. CB) so although it would be legal, it is rarely seen