Burning Sensation
Footballguy
He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
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Can somebody convince me that Steve Smith (2 Viewers)
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Who would you rather have?
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
The only question now is, can he get 2000 yards and 20 TD's? 
I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?He is not in your top 5 right now?
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time taking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level, or to have more upside.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
Come on Rud, Andre freaking Johnson.
he's been hurt all year and plays in a terrible offense...you think he sucks?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time taking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level, or to have more upside.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
Sammy3469
Footballguy
My only perception is that they are both very good...I think they bail out Delhomme much more than people realize.I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time taking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level, or to have more upside.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Fantasy football is all about situation and opportunity, while I don't doubt he has talent and doesn't suck in raw skills. He absolutely sucks as an FFL option at this point.he's been hurt all year and plays in a terrible offense...you think he sucks?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time taking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level, or to have more upside.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
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Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Although this would probably be better if discussed here, i will respond in this thread anyhow.If doing a draft TODAY, redraft or dynasty, you would take TO over Steve Smith....seriously?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
As for Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson, please tell me you are kidding, with the exception of Fitzgerald, how can you even argue for any of the other guys?
Oh yeah, Andre Johnson!?!?!?!??!?!?
we weren't talking about fantasy football ability...the initial post that I disagreed with said Steve Smith was a top-5 wideout in the NFL in terms of his "football ability"
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
I'd also argue that none of those guys save Harrison and maybe Fitzgerald are in a system that explicitly exploits their talents as much as Carolina's does for Smith. And while Ward and Horn may be better all-around WR in real-life football, they don't get enough of the ball to outpace Smith in fantasy terms.he's been hurt all year and plays in a terrible offense...you think he sucks?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time taking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level, or to have more upside.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
what are you talking about?the initial post from BnB before the season started said that he thought Steve Smith was a top-5 WR in the NFL in terms of his "football abilty".Although this would probably be better if discussed here, i will respond in this thread anyhow.If doing a draft TODAY, redraft or dynasty, you would take TO over Steve Smith....seriously?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
As for Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson, please tell me you are kidding, with the exception of Fitzgerald, how can you even argue for any of the other guys?
Oh yeah, Andre Johnson!?!?!?!??!?!?
THIS WAS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL RANKING OF TOP-5 WRS.
Steve Smith is awesome and is having one of the best WR seasons of all time. Does that automatically mean he's one of the best 5 WRs in the NFL? Why doesn't Muhammad belong there after what he did last year then?
Chinchilla
Footballguy
abe froman
Footballguy
Mushy would be a top 5 NFL WR if he still was CAR #1 WR. Delhomme focuses in on his #1 and gives them the opportunity to make big plays often. Mushys strength is catching the ball at the highest point over 1-2 DB's, while Smith leaves 1 DB at the line of scrimmage and beats the others with RAW NFL TALENT/SKILL...if you disagree with that then you havent watched him play. Now since Smith is CAR's #1 I'd have to say that yes he is easily a top 5 NFL WR and will continue to be around there as long as he's a Panther..what are you talking about?the initial post from BnB before the season started said that he thought Steve Smith was a top-5 WR in the NFL in terms of his "football abilty".Although this would probably be better if discussed here, i will respond in this thread anyhow.If doing a draft TODAY, redraft or dynasty, you would take TO over Steve Smith....seriously?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
As for Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson, please tell me you are kidding, with the exception of Fitzgerald, how can you even argue for any of the other guys?
Oh yeah, Andre Johnson!?!?!?!??!?!?
THIS WAS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL RANKING OF TOP-5 WRS.
Steve Smith is awesome and is having one of the best WR seasons of all time. Does that automatically mean he's one of the best 5 WRs in the NFL? Why doesn't Muhammad belong there after what he did last year then?
thatguy
Footballguy
While I do think Smith has proven he's one of the five best WRs in football right now (I was skeptical due to his size as well, but watching a few Panther's games changed that), you really seem to be missing Aaron's point. He is talking about the best WRs purely from an ability perspective, independent of which team they play on. So, to say, Muhammed is a top 5 WR only if he plays on Carolina really is an unfair statement. While changing teams affects a players fantasy value, it will not change their natural ability, which is what Aaron is talking about.Mushy would be a top 5 NFL WR if he still was CAR #1 WR. Delhomme focuses in on his #1 and gives them the opportunity to make big plays often. Mushys strength is catching the ball at the highest point over 1-2 DB's, while Smith leaves 1 DB at the line of scrimmage and beats the others with RAW NFL TALENT/SKILL...if you disagree with that then you havent watched him play. Now since Smith is CAR's #1 I'd have to say that yes he is easily a top 5 NFL WR and will continue to be around there as long as he's a Panther..what are you talking about?the initial post from BnB before the season started said that he thought Steve Smith was a top-5 WR in the NFL in terms of his "football abilty".Although this would probably be better if discussed here, i will respond in this thread anyhow.If doing a draft TODAY, redraft or dynasty, you would take TO over Steve Smith....seriously?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
As for Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson, please tell me you are kidding, with the exception of Fitzgerald, how can you even argue for any of the other guys?
Oh yeah, Andre Johnson!?!?!?!??!?!?
THIS WAS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL RANKING OF TOP-5 WRS.
Steve Smith is awesome and is having one of the best WR seasons of all time. Does that automatically mean he's one of the best 5 WRs in the NFL? Why doesn't Muhammad belong there after what he did last year then?
put it this way...if your team was in a must-win game with an average QB and average surrounding talent, which WR would you want to be your #1 guy?If Steve Smith is in your top-5 choices for that one game, so be it. I'm just saying I'm not completely sure he'd be in mine just yet. He's very close though, so the statement was not as ridiculous as it seemed to me at the time.
simey
Footballguy
Why would it? During the 2003 superbowl season, Smith became Delhomme's go to guy because he outperformed Moose. At the beginning of 2004, Smith was ranked in several top 10 preseason rankings, but he broke his leg in week 1. He was listed as WR #1 in Carolina then, not Moose. Muhammads huge numbers last year tell me that Delhomme is a damn good quarterback, plus Carolina had to throw a lot because they kept losing running backs to injury.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I know the asnwer isn't Andre Johnson
Muhammad was the #1 fantay WR last year playing in the same system with the same QB. Certainly makes it seem as though Smith's numbers this year might be a little inflated from what we would expect them to be in a place like Buffalo, doesn't it?He's in a great situation right now...I'm just wondering if you put him somewhere else, would people still consider him a top-5 NFL WR? I think players like Moss, Owens, Chad, Holt, Ward would be successful almost anywhere. Smith certainly would be too, but I just don't know if he'd be considered an automatic "top 5" player somewhere else. How does he do against double teams? Can he win his fair share of jump balls? Is he a reliable target in the red zone? Is he a willing and effective blocker downfield?
Also, Muhammad clearly played like a top-5 NFL WR last year, but I don't hear many people arguing that he belongs in that group of elite WRs this year with Kyle Orton throwing him the ball. Why is that?
so you think he sucks and will never be a very good WR?if you put a healthy Andre Johnson in Carolina this year instead of Steve Smith, what type of numbers do you think he'd put up? if Steve Smith was playing hurt in Houston this year, where do you think people would rank him?
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Chinchilla
Footballguy
Moss on the Bears.Or Owens.
Or Holt.
I think Smith is as good or better than most of those guys. Right now, I'd go:
1. Moss
2. Smith
3. Holt
4. CJ
then a cluster.
Chinchilla
Footballguy
Good numbers... but not Steve Smith like numbers.
Clearly, the Bears are a mess with a rookie at QB but Muhammad has still been productive there.
Or Owens.
Or Holt.
So, you don't think TO is a top-4 NFL wideout in terms of his ability on the field?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Good points, but if I'm picking a #1 WR i want to throw the ball to I know it's not Andre. Yes, I'll take Steve Smith over him in that position. Steve Smith attacks the ball and has elite speed. The guy is uncoverable.
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Chinchilla
Footballguy
Dude, you just said those guys can be productive almost anywhere. I'm saying, Smith can be productive "almost anywhere" too.Clearly, the Bears are a mess with a rookie at QB but Muhammad has still been productive there.
Or Owens.
Or Holt.
Chinchilla
Footballguy
Yes, TO would be #2 on that list if he were playing currently. But right now he's not even a consideration.Where would you put Jerry Rice on that list?
simey
Footballguy
How could you logically think any WR would have a great year with Losman or Orton throwing to them? Common sense can answer that, don't you think? You question if Smith can win his share of jump balls, and is he reliable in the redzone, and does he block?? Don't you watch the Panther games? Do i think Smith would do better than Andre Johnson in Texas, yes i do. Do I think Andre would do as good as Smith in Carolina, no I don't. Steve Smith has a special talent you clearly don't recognize. That's ok, the Panthers know they have something special in Carolina.
I said that Smith would be successful almost anywhere too. But, I think height is a big advantage for WRs playing with inexperienced and/or inaccurate QBs...so that could hurt him in some situations.Dude, you just said those guys can be productive almost anywhere. I'm saying, Smith can be productive "almost anywhere" too.Clearly, the Bears are a mess with a rookie at QB but Muhammad has still been productive there.
Or Owens.
Or Holt.
I recognize Smith's talent. I think he's awesome. Do I need to bump every post where I have said he's a great WR to convince you of that?I watch the Panthers when I can...but, I can't watch every game of every team in the league.Sorry if me not anointing him the best WR of all time is offending you in some way.
Rice is retired and old. He wouldn't make my top-100 right now.Owens is still a dominant WR who has been suspended for off the field actions. That doesn't mean he couldn't line up on Sunday and dominate like he has been for pretty much his entire career if he was allowed to play.
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This has been an entertaining thread, seeing some trying to explain their reasoning that their thoughts on Smith were on football talent and not FF talent.
I watch the Panthers when I can...but, I can't watch every game of every team in the league.
Sorry if me not anointing him the best WR of all time is offending you in some way.
I'm not talking about "this year". I'm talking about them from a talent/ability perspective, which should transcend years and situations. Numbers/stats aren't the sole determining factor here.If all the players from the NFL were put into a draft pool and the GMs drafted their entire rosters from scratch, do you think Steve Smith would be drafted in the top-5 among WRs?
Based on the year he is having along with the problems from TO and injuries to other players, he probably would right now. But, if you could somehow remove the character problems with TO and evaluate every player at 100% health, I think Smith would finish outside the top-5. I'm probably placing too much emphasis on height, but I bet a lot of NFL talent evaluators would do the same thing. Steve Smith is amazing, but he's not the prototype WR that has become popular in today's NFL.
The point is that Smith's value is at an all-time high right now, while some of the players being compared to him here are much lower than their peak. Things can change pretty quickly in the NFL and I think people might be getting a little carried away with Smith, that's all. He's establishing himself as an elite WR this year...no doubt about that. As I said earlier, if he's not top-5 material now, he's certainly not very far off.
Anyway, I'm not trying to bash Smith at all here. I've always liked his game and love watching him play. I believe he's a legit stud WR who plays bigger than his size.
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AnonymousBob
Footballguy
Who would the top five wr's be? Holt, Ward, CJ, Boldin, Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, AJ? A case could certainly be made that Smith would go in the top five wr's.
I would rank Moss, Owens, Chad, Holt ahead of him, and then likely group Smith with players like Ward and Harrison (his age hurts him a bit though). In terms of long-term potential, I like Fitz more than Smith.
packersfan
Footballguy
And if he wasn't, don't you think a good argument would then be made that he should have been?
Chinchilla
Footballguy
and yet neither are currently play....
Probably.
AnonymousBob
Footballguy
After all that's happened you'd take Owens before Smith? Ward gets credit for being such a team guy-so shouldn't TO LOSE some points for being a cancer? I'd much rather have Smith on my team than Owens.
Chinchilla
Footballguy
WTF? Not even close to the same argument.
I doubt NFL GM's would take Smith as a top 5 WR.
I still think Smith is top 2 or 3 in the league.
Chinchilla
Footballguy
No I know he's
.Please let me off the hook now.
sorry, I wasn't clear. I wouldn't want Owens on my team so there's no way I'd "take" him over Smith. But, I do still think Owens is a better all-around WR than Smith on the field. He just has some other fatal flaws that damage his value.
you don't like Larry Fitzgerald? what's not to like?he's putting up numbers with a McClown at QB.No I know he's
so you know more about the NFL and talent evaluation than most GMs?WTF? Not even close to the same argument.
I doubt NFL GM's would take Smith as a top 5 WR.
I still think Smith is top 2 or 3 in the league.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Then we were just on a different page, i am still refering to the original post in this thread(which was fantasy based)As far as him being a top 5 WR on pure talent, most of the guys on your list can be argued to be better i guess. Although i still have no idea how you have Andre Johnson on it.what are you talking about?the initial post from BnB before the season started said that he thought Steve Smith was a top-5 WR in the NFL in terms of his "football abilty".Although this would probably be better if discussed here, i will respond in this thread anyhow.If doing a draft TODAY, redraft or dynasty, you would take TO over Steve Smith....seriously?I'm not sure. He might squeeze in.I still would have a hard time ranking him over players like TO, Moss, Chad, and Holt. I also think a case could be made for players like Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson to either be more proven than Smith, at the same level as him, or to have more upside. I probably am worrying too much about his lack of height, but I think a bigger WR would be a more complete weapon in the red zone and as a blocker. Smith clearly belongs in the top tier of WRs in terms of quickness, hands, route running, big play ability, and RAC skills.He is not in your top 5 right now?
Who would you rather have?
Does the fact that Muhammad put up huge numbers in Carolina last year affect anyone's perception of Smith?
As for Ward, Harrison, Horn, Fitzgerald, J.Walker, A.Johnson, please tell me you are kidding, with the exception of Fitzgerald, how can you even argue for any of the other guys?
Oh yeah, Andre Johnson!?!?!?!??!?!?
THIS WAS NOT A FANTASY FOOTBALL RANKING OF TOP-5 WRS.
Steve Smith is awesome and is having one of the best WR seasons of all time. Does that automatically mean he's one of the best 5 WRs in the NFL? Why doesn't Muhammad belong there after what he did last year then?
Personally, there are only 3 WR's that i think can be argued to be more talented right now. One of them wont be playing any football any time in the near future, and the other two are Moss and CJ.
Chinchilla
Footballguy
Ryan Leaf?you don't like Larry Fitzgerald? what's not to like?he's putting up numbers with a McClown at QB.No I know he's
