Car Market going forward (1 Viewer)

[MTskibum]

Interesting article about the state of autonomous driving. I read the whole thing from beginning to end witch is a 10 minute read or so. The below was most interesting i thought on their current challenges.

@Terminalxylem

Most of the time, driving requires following simple, deterministic rules: stay in the center of the lane, avoid hitting other road users, obey stop lights and stop signs, and so forth.

But navigating through the scene of a fire or car crash is much trickier. Emergencies can totally disrupt the flow of traffic, forcing drivers to improvise new traffic patterns. Drivers often need a nuanced understanding of what other people are trying to accomplish so that they can avoid getting in their way. If police or firefighters are directing traffic, drivers need to understand their hand signals.

In short, navigating the scene of a fire or car crash sometimes requires reasoning skills that are far beyond the capabilities of today’s AI systems. So emergency scenes are likely to remain as a “corner case” for Tesla’s FSD for at least a few more years, just as they still are for Waymo’s software.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...-is-playing-chess-while-tesla-plays-checkers/

 

[Terminalxylem]

Interesting article about the state of autonomous driving. I read the whole thing from beginning to end witch is a 10 minute read or so. The below was most interesting i thought on their current challenges.

@Terminalxylem

Most of the time, driving requires following simple, deterministic rules: stay in the center of the lane, avoid hitting other road users, obey stop lights and stop signs, and so forth.

But navigating through the scene of a fire or car crash is much trickier. Emergencies can totally disrupt the flow of traffic, forcing drivers to improvise new traffic patterns. Drivers often need a nuanced understanding of what other people are trying to accomplish so that they can avoid getting in their way. If police or firefighters are directing traffic, drivers need to understand their hand signals.

In short, navigating the scene of a fire or car crash sometimes requires reasoning skills that are far beyond the capabilities of today’s AI systems. So emergency scenes are likely to remain as a “corner case” for Tesla’s FSD for at least a few more years, just as they still are for Waymo’s software.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...-is-playing-chess-while-tesla-plays-checkers/

The fundamental problem is our tolerance for AI error: we’ll demand much better performance/safety from AV than those driven by humans, before we ever allow it to supplant us.

I don’t know the acceptable threshold, but it sounds like Waymo’s AV are already safer, though less efficient than humans. I expect it won’t take much longer, like a decade or less, for the systems to improve such that AV are undeniably better. And safety + efficiency will only go up, as human drivers are phased out.

Of course we’ll have the dilemma many of us face with our aging parents: prying the keys from unwilling hands.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Interesting article about the state of autonomous driving. I read the whole thing from beginning to end witch is a 10 minute read or so. The below was most interesting i thought on their current challenges.

@Terminalxylem

Most of the time, driving requires following simple, deterministic rules: stay in the center of the lane, avoid hitting other road users, obey stop lights and stop signs, and so forth.

But navigating through the scene of a fire or car crash is much trickier. Emergencies can totally disrupt the flow of traffic, forcing drivers to improvise new traffic patterns. Drivers often need a nuanced understanding of what other people are trying to accomplish so that they can avoid getting in their way. If police or firefighters are directing traffic, drivers need to understand their hand signals.

In short, navigating the scene of a fire or car crash sometimes requires reasoning skills that are far beyond the capabilities of today’s AI systems. So emergency scenes are likely to remain as a “corner case” for Tesla’s FSD for at least a few more years, just as they still are for Waymo’s software.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...-is-playing-chess-while-tesla-plays-checkers/

The fundamental problem is our tolerance for AI error: we’ll demand much better performance/safety from AV than those driven by humans, before we ever allow it to supplant us.

I don’t know the acceptable threshold, but it sounds like Waymo’s AV are already safer, though less efficient than humans. I expect it won’t take much longer, like a decade or less, for the systems to improve such that AV are undeniably better. And safety + efficiency will only go up, as human drivers are phased out.

Of course we’ll have the dilemma many of us face with our aging parents: prying the keys from unwilling hands.

I think there might be a middle ground where AI only routes are created. Where there are no human drivers. The interstate for example. You want to go on the interstate? AI only. Downtown in a big city. AI only.

 

[Osaurus]

Dang, MOP, I was in and out of the VW dealership here in Tampa under 2 hours easy (closer to 1.5 hours). No undercoating purchased or anything

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Financed about $27k-$28k, at 6.9% rate, any guesses on how much that adds on to the vehicle if we slowly pay it over 60 months?
Almost $5,300 and I mention it because people are celebrating the ability to erase dealer fees, myself included but its all for not if you pay these cars off slowly.

We used to get 0% for 36-48 months on Subaru, that's not happening, maybe 2.9% on some models.
I did see lease options on new Subaru Forester/Outback, somewhere n the $250/month range but guessing that's a base model and you still needed $5k-$6k down

 

[belljr]

You never got 0% on a used Subaru from a BMW dealer....

 

[Terminalxylem]

Interesting article about the state of autonomous driving. I read the whole thing from beginning to end witch is a 10 minute read or so. The below was most interesting i thought on their current challenges.

@Terminalxylem

Most of the time, driving requires following simple, deterministic rules: stay in the center of the lane, avoid hitting other road users, obey stop lights and stop signs, and so forth.

But navigating through the scene of a fire or car crash is much trickier. Emergencies can totally disrupt the flow of traffic, forcing drivers to improvise new traffic patterns. Drivers often need a nuanced understanding of what other people are trying to accomplish so that they can avoid getting in their way. If police or firefighters are directing traffic, drivers need to understand their hand signals.

In short, navigating the scene of a fire or car crash sometimes requires reasoning skills that are far beyond the capabilities of today’s AI systems. So emergency scenes are likely to remain as a “corner case” for Tesla’s FSD for at least a few more years, just as they still are for Waymo’s software.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/0...-is-playing-chess-while-tesla-plays-checkers/

The fundamental problem is our tolerance for AI error: we’ll demand much better performance/safety from AV than those driven by humans, before we ever allow it to supplant us.

I don’t know the acceptable threshold, but it sounds like Waymo’s AV are already safer, though less efficient than humans. I expect it won’t take much longer, like a decade or less, for the systems to improve such that AV are undeniably better. And safety + efficiency will only go up, as human drivers are phased out.

Of course we’ll have the dilemma many of us face with our aging parents: prying the keys from unwilling hands.

I think there might be a middle ground where AI only routes are created. Where there are no human drivers. The interstate for example. You want to go on the interstate? AI only. Downtown in a big city. AI only.

City would make more sense, though driving far more chaotic there.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

Don't think is really true. Maybe Honda and Toyota are still thin but don't think anywhere is wiped out.

Toyota is the one I tried to stop by this week and besides Tundras super weak.

Just speculation, but are there ship full of Toyotas sitting off the coast waiting for the Port of Baltimore to fully open? If I'm not mistaken that was a primary role of that port, and one that isn't easily recreated elsewhere due to the acreage needed to park them even if we assume that the army of drivers and others involved with the logistics could easily be moved to other ports.

 

[pollardsvision]

Dang, MOP, I was in and out of the VW dealership here in Tampa under 2 hours easy (closer to 1.5 hours). No undercoating purchased or anything

The owner of Rick Case Honda in Broward County was just on CarDealershipGuy has a 90 minute guarantee.

90 minutes out the door or they pay your first month's car payment. Of course, they have an extensive checklist of things that the customer has to do online before they come in to pull this off, but it sounded like a fantastic idea.

 

[Lehigh98]

My 2018 Honda Accord Touring Hybrid was chugging along with no issues whatsoever and about to break 100,000 when I got hit by some mystery road debris on the interstate that hit so hard it shattered the windshield, dented the steel column, dented the roof panel and column again up there. Car insurance just decided to total the car because repair estimate was $13k. Car still drives great, so annoying.


So, I'm back in the car market and also have to figure out how my insurance company is going to handle the valuation and payout. Hoping for any advice that you guys can provide on this "totaling" and value of my car and not getting screwed by insurance.

I really liked the Accord and pretty sure I'm just going to buy another Honda Accord Touring but probably not a hybrid this time since my new (since I bought the car) company just pays for all my gas. Will also probably do the usual and start looking for used cars just coming off lease.

 

[sho nuff]

Been looking a bit at something like a Camry or Civic. The last few models get pretty darn good gas mileage without being hybrids. Like 39mpg highway. And the 25 camrys i think are all hybrids now

Didn’t like what Honda has done to their dashboards. Honeycomb looking mesh. Hides the vents i guess but would imagine that would build up a lot of dirt/dust.

 

[culdeus]

My 2018 Honda Accord Touring Hybrid was chugging along with no issues whatsoever and about to break 100,000 when I got hit by some mystery road debris on the interstate that hit so hard it shattered the windshield, dented the steel column, dented the roof panel and column again up there. Car insurance just decided to total the car because repair estimate was $13k. Car still drives great, so annoying.


So, I'm back in the car market and also have to figure out how my insurance company is going to handle the valuation and payout. Hoping for any advice that you guys can provide on this "totaling" and value of my car and not getting screwed by insurance.

I really liked the Accord and pretty sure I'm just going to buy another Honda Accord Touring but probably not a hybrid this time since my new (since I bought the car) company just pays for all my gas. Will also probably do the usual and start looking for used cars just coming off lease.

I mean they're going to try to give you private party to dealer blue book first. Best bet is finding dealer lot cars of similar specs and use as comp like it is a house.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Been looking a bit at something like a Camry or Civic. The last few models get pretty darn good gas mileage without being hybrids. Like 39mpg highway. And the 25 camrys i think are all hybrids now

Didn’t like what Honda has done to their dashboards. Honeycomb looking mesh. Hides the vents i guess but would imagine that would build up a lot of dirt/dust.

Feel like a Camry would be much nicer than a Civic. They'll both probably run forever, but the Camry has more heft to it.

 

[MTskibum]

Been looking a bit at something like a Camry or Civic. The last few models get pretty darn good gas mileage without being hybrids. Like 39mpg highway. And the 25 camrys i think are all hybrids now

Didn’t like what Honda has done to their dashboards. Honeycomb looking mesh. Hides the vents i guess but would imagine that would build up a lot of dirt/dust.

Camry compares to accord where as corrolla compares to civic.

Those are different classes of cars, although i would recommend a civic type R. You only live once.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

My civic is remarkable roomy.

 

[sho nuff]

Been looking a bit at something like a Camry or Civic. The last few models get pretty darn good gas mileage without being hybrids. Like 39mpg highway. And the 25 camrys i think are all hybrids now

Didn’t like what Honda has done to their dashboards. Honeycomb looking mesh. Hides the vents i guess but would imagine that would build up a lot of dirt/dust.

Camry compares to accord where as corrolla compares to civic.

Those are different classes of cars, although i would recommend a civic type R. You only live once.

IMO that is how it used to be. Take a look at the dimensions of the cars in recent years. IMO the civic and camry align more now Corolla’s are smaller.

My hesitation is probably more Nissan related with the reputation of their cvt vs other manufacturers.

All that said… its hard to ever argue against a Camry. Just a solid platform, engine…and really a nice looking vehicle for a while.

 

[MTskibum]

Been looking a bit at something like a Camry or Civic. The last few models get pretty darn good gas mileage without being hybrids. Like 39mpg highway. And the 25 camrys i think are all hybrids now

Didn’t like what Honda has done to their dashboards. Honeycomb looking mesh. Hides the vents i guess but would imagine that would build up a lot of dirt/dust.

Camry compares to accord where as corrolla compares to civic.

Those are different classes of cars, although i would recommend a civic type R. You only live once.

IMO that is how it used to be. Take a look at the dimensions of the cars in recent years. IMO the civic and camry align more now Corolla’s are smaller.

My hesitation is probably more Nissan related with the reputation of their cvt vs other manufacturers.

All that said… its hard to ever argue against a Camry. Just a solid platform, engine…and really a nice looking vehicle for a while.

Uh, hmm...

Excluding the type R, which i should get to drive in a few weeks.

The civic comes base with 150 hp and tops out at 180 hp, where as the camry comes standard with 208 hp and tops out of 300hp.

The civic is also smaller both in width and length.

Have you driven the civic, accord, corrolla, and camry. I have personnally owned 2 camrys, 1 civic, and 1 corrolla. I currently own both a toyota and honda. I am not trying to play brand favorites, however they are not in the same class of car.