Carr: Who is to blame? (1 Viewer)

[gheemony]

I hear both arguments for why David Carr failed: (1) he had a lousy OL and (2) Carr is at fault: he lacked vision, couldn't read defenses, held the ball too long, etc. Which is it?

I am looking for opinions from the folks that have looked at game film. Any scouts or scout-wanna-bes want to weigh-in? Has anybody seen opinions from someone like Jaworski or other talking head that watches film and knows QBs (or claims to know)?

 

[Phlash]

Both. Carr tries to do too much and his O-line exacerbates the problem.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

The line is bad and most QB's would get killed behind it, but not all. marino would have been fine behind me at center.

 

[coolnerd]

It has not been either/or. through the Texans history both Carr's pocket awareness and the OL play have been below average. You don't play as poorly for as long otherwise. If only one aspect were below average and the other even decent, the team is just another offense with protection problems, not one setting records for sacks.

 

[gheemony]

So the "its both" answers beg the question: does the situation improve with Schaub? Does he have above average awareness? Or at least better awareness than Carr?

 

[coolnerd]

So the "its both" answers beg the question: does the situation improve with Schaub? Does he have above average awareness? Or at least better awareness than Carr?

It would hard for him not have better pocket awareness than Carr, but Schaub has not played enough for anyone to really know. The Texans are taking a gamble that Schaub is a legitimate NFL Qb and the younger Olmen they are counting on develop.

 

[LHUCKS]

Both. Carr tries to do too much and his O-line exacerbates the problem.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

OK, I'm going to bite. I'm going to say the O Line.

Every QB takes a few seasons to get acclimated to the speed of the NFL. But behind that Houston line Carr has learned to be gunshy more than anything.

I'll go on the record as saying this will be a situation this year similar to Joey Harrington last year where he will perform much better in another uniform. There couldn't have been a worse situation to begin a career than what the Texans had put him in.

Hmm, let me see. No O-Line, no star RB, and really only one good WR. I never expected this to end any other way.

 

[Bri]

Like Joey in Miami last year, we shall see

 

[pizzatyme]

It's funny to me that the Texans sign an unproven QB in Schaub to replace Carr. This is why they suck in the first place!

Carr is like a great College basketball coach who goes to coach in the NBA and fails miserably. Then goes back to the college game and succeeds again.

If you are put into a terrible situation, only the very best would succeed in this situation!

If your coaches have an offense where you are taking a 5-7 step drop your first few seasons and you get your brains beat in, it doesn't really matter how good your pocket presence is, you're still running for your life and/or getting killed!

Then when your coaches change your drops to a 3 step drop and you complete 65%+ of your passes but have Ron Effing Dayne behind you to keep the defense...honest... then again, you are setup to fail.

I voted OL, but it is much more than that! Player personnel decisions, ala no Reggie Bush, offensive gameplanning, OL protection, and QB decision making all go into it.

Many will say I'm nuts for my stance and that Carr is just terrible, but Idisagree. No, if he were to go to Oakland or Cleveland, what is the best guess for how he'd do? How would Peyton Manning do in Oakland or Cleveland?

Rant over.

 

[delusional]

OL. How many times has he been sacked in his career so far?

When he is giving time he has shown he can make plays.

Don't see schaub fairing much better unless they draft stud OL somehow

 

[KellysHeroes]

The Team never got better; meaning that Carr was never given a chance to excel. I feel that we will never know how good he COULD of been. Its sad; that organization let him root.

The OL just never improved & the D never improved either.

when it the end of the 1st and your down 14 to nothing game in and game out.. you have to

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Definite both with a slight nudge to Carr.

Carr is one of the only QB's I have seen that simply will not step up into the pocket. He moves sideways in the pocket. All through his high school and college career, he was athletic enough when he did thid to usuaaly get around/away from the rushing DE's. he is no in the pros. He moves directly into the pass rush.

He has had enough weapns on offense to be moderately successful. Davis as a rb and Johnson at wide out are better combos than many teams have. Carr is easy to game plan against because he typically makes one read and then goes into dump off to TE or RB mode. That is why Billy Miller, Owen Daniels and Davis have had big numbers of receptionc, but the wr2 does zero. Did Jabar Gaffney look for NE like a guy who couldn't make the Texans? No- Carr makes everyone except his primary wr and hi dump off wr look bad.

Nonetheless- the OL was never great at pass protection.

 

[Imedos]

Mostly Carr. He has no pocket presence whatsoever and ends up making the oline look even worse than they are.

If Sage hadn't got hurt, he would've ended up finishing off the season as kubiak had no faith in carr.

 

[BigTex]

OL and Front Office. They put Carr in a lose, lose, and lose again situation. Many said during Carr's rookie season that the beating Carr was taken could destroy him mentally and it looks like it did.

Troy Aikman talked about how hard it was mentally to get over his first season. He talked about how unstable he was half way thru the first season and Carr was by far on a worst team, worst coach and worst front office.

 

[lions327]

While I realize he hasn't been very good, it's hard to judge a player who has never had a good offensive line, never had more than 1 good WR to throw to, and was constantly under pressure. I do agree his pocket awareness isn't the best, but I still think the above are more reasons for his poor play than he is. He certainly has the physical skills, and in the right situation, with good players and a good coaching staff around him, he very well could succeed. But as of now, I really can't judge him because of the above.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Where's the Charlie Casserly choice?

 

[Restricted]

ESPN had him mic-ed up for a Sun. night game a season or so ago and it was painful to hear him communicate with the other players. At that time I deemed him unable to be a leader and would never succeed as the starting QB...

 

[Banger]

60 Carr/40 OL

 

[Rozelle]

Combination of both and I think you could add coaching in there as well. The Dom Capers years.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The first few years it was the OL, which in turn led to him developing bad habits and becoming the QB he is today. The problem is that he isn't going to rehabilitate in Houston.

The most likely cause is personnel decisions and play-calling. He should never have been brought into a situation as a rookie where he gets his bell rung as often as he did. It is always tempting to draft a QB with the first pick, but you need to have an offensive line in place that can either pass block, or have a running game (Steelers/Roethl) that causes defenses to not pass rush you to death.

 

[AB in DC]

I choose (3): The Texans for drafting him #1 in the first place, when he was not as talented as other QBs drafted #1 in previous years and should never have been considered as part of a long-term foundation for an expansion team.

 

[Colin Dowling]

Carr - the biggest issue is the fact that he never learned to step up in the pocket. He responded to pressure by either dumping the ball off for a 3 yard gain or stepping sideways....usually in to the arms of the DE. After being forced to watch the Texans hear in Austin, I am convinced if Carr had learned to step up in the pocket without panicing, things would have turned out much better.

 

[Da Guru]

Carr - the biggest issue is the fact that he never learned to step up in the pocket. He responded to pressure by either dumping the ball off for a 3 yard gain or stepping sideways....usually in to the arms of the DE. After being forced to watch the Texans hear in Austin, I am convinced if Carr had learned to step up in the pocket without panicing, things would have turned out much better.

A word describes Carr: Shell-Shocked

 

[radballs]

60 Carr/40 OL

I'd be more inclined to flip that. Maybe more like 35 Carr/65 OL.

 

[FavreCo]

Definite both with a slight nudge to Carr.

Carr is one of the only QB's I have seen that simply will not step up into the pocket. He moves sideways in the pocket. All through his high school and college career, he was athletic enough when he did thid to usuaaly get around/away from the rushing DE's. he is no in the pros. He moves directly into the pass rush.

He has had enough weapns on offense to be moderately successful. Davis as a rb and Johnson at wide out are better combos than many teams have. Carr is easy to game plan against because he typically makes one read and then goes into dump off to TE or RB mode. That is why Billy Miller, Owen Daniels and Davis have had big numbers of receptionc, but the wr2 does zero. Did Jabar Gaffney look for NE like a guy who couldn't make the Texans? No- Carr makes everyone except his primary wr and hi dump off wr look bad.

Nonetheless- the OL was never great at pass protection.

This post is correct. Anyone who has watched Texans games knows this. Anyone saying it's not Carr's fault will find out that it is when he tries to masquerade as a QB for some other unlucky team. As far as Schaub goes, this team now has a chance to compete and should finish 8-8 or better.

However they did potect Sage R. perfectly in the only game where he and Carr both played. Carr with a typical 4 sacks and 1 INT. Sage with zero sacks, 3 TD's 1 INT. That is all anyoen needs to know and undoubtedly was when Kubiak realized he needed to make a move.

 

[FavreCo]

I choose (3): The Texans for drafting him #1 in the first place, when he was not as talented as other QBs drafted #1 in previous years and should never have been considered as part of a long-term foundation for an expansion team.

This is also correct. By drafting Carr, this expansion team could not evaluate how awful he really was. They always had an excuse. First it was no WR's. Then in comes AJ. Then it was no running game to keep them honest. In comes Davis. Then it was coaching and o-line. Sage proves them wrong. FINALLY the answer was revealed. Carr is no good at all.

 

[Houston turmOiler]

Charley Casserly and Dom Capers. They took him and developed him into what you see now. Awful personnel decision after awful personnel decision and lousy coaching turned a talented #1 overall pick into a shell-shocked, gun-shy QB who doesn't throw the ball further than 10 yards down the field. To borrow a line from Jim Mora Sr., Casserly and Capers flat-out "sucked."

I rail on Carr all the time. I want him gone badly. I also think the organization screwed him out of the first 4 years of his career. He's developed some awful habits because of this, and IMO he's going to be very hard to fix. Kubiak tried last year and realized that it's a futile effort to develop Carr into a QB here. He needs a change of scenery, and he needs a couple of years on the bench if he's going to have a chance to unlearn these habits. He's going to have to follow the career path of a guy like Jim Plunkett if he's ever going to turn his career around (IMO). If you start him at QB next season in Oakland, Miami, or anywhere else he's going to look like the same QB. I would argue that he'd look like the same QB if you put him on the '89 49ers (well, he'd at least be the guy who brought them down).

Despite hating watching Carr play, I really do wish the guy well. He's tough and classy, and never #####ed when he had every right to do so. I don't know if his perceived "lack of fire" or " no passion for the game" is just the way he's always played or brought on by playing for such a clueless HC and GM. Regardless, he'd probably be a half-decent QB if he wasn't stuck playing for those buffoons...

 

[pizzatyme]

Definite both with a slight nudge to Carr.

Carr is one of the only QB's I have seen that simply will not step up into the pocket. He moves sideways in the pocket. All through his high school and college career, he was athletic enough when he did thid to usuaaly get around/away from the rushing DE's. he is no in the pros. He moves directly into the pass rush.

He has had enough weapns on offense to be moderately successful. Davis as a rb and Johnson at wide out are better combos than many teams have. Carr is easy to game plan against because he typically makes one read and then goes into dump off to TE or RB mode. That is why Billy Miller, Owen Daniels and Davis have had big numbers of receptionc, but the wr2 does zero. Did Jabar Gaffney look for NE like a guy who couldn't make the Texans? No- Carr makes everyone except his primary wr and hi dump off wr look bad.

Nonetheless- the OL was never great at pass protection.

This post is correct. Anyone who has watched Texans games knows this. Anyone saying it's not Carr's fault will find out that it is when he tries to masquerade as a QB for some other unlucky team. As far as Schaub goes, this team now has a chance to compete and should finish 8-8 or better.

However they did potect Sage R. perfectly in the only game where he and Carr both played. Carr with a typical 4 sacks and 1 INT. Sage with zero sacks, 3 TD's 1 INT. That is all anyoen needs to know and undoubtedly was when Kubiak realized he needed to make a move.

And you're basing your opinion of Schaub on his 2 starts, right? I believe that Schaub's average sacks per game is even higher than Carr's. Does this say Schaub holds the ball even longer or is more indecisive than Carr? I guess we'll find out.Many a player have looked great in the pre-season.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I would put Carr and Harrington in the same category. These are both guys that most fans would like to see succeed, but neither one is a franchise QB. Carr is slightly more talented, but still not a #1 QB.

Some would say that the change of scenery was good for Harrington and that the same might be true for Carr. But if you look at Joey's Miami numbers, they are actually worse than when he was in Detroit. He was the same old Joey across the board. QB Rating of only 68, mediocre completion percentage (although it was his career high), more INT's than TD's, and the worst YPA of any QB in the league other than Gradkowski. Only 5.76 Yards per Attempt. That's what really stands out to me about Harrington. He throws a lot of short passes, but his completion percentage still sucks.

At least Carr led the league in completion percentage at 68.3%. Harrington has never broke over 57.5%.

 

[kensat30]

Carr 100%.

The guy fell asleep during class when they were explaining how to move in the pocket. All the guy knows how to do is move into defensive ends. I've never seen an NFL with worse pocket presence than David Carr.

 

[NorrisB]

Carr - the biggest issue is the fact that he never learned to step up in the pocket. He responded to pressure by either dumping the ball off for a 3 yard gain or stepping sideways....usually in to the arms of the DE. After being forced to watch the Texans hear in Austin, I am convinced if Carr had learned to step up in the pocket without panicing, things would have turned out much better.

 

[bcr8f]

Houston for drafting him #1. Julius Peppers, Roy Williams would have been better.

 

[Bri]

Which of you Carr bashers can explain to me how he led the league in 4th Q passer rating?

 

[Sinrman]

Both. Carr tries to do too much and his O-line exacerbates the problem.

Both

 

[FavreCo]

Carr 100%.

The guy fell asleep during class when they were explaining how to move in the pocket. All the guy knows how to do is move into defensive ends. I've never seen an NFL with worse pocket presence than David Carr.

I don't think I could have said that any better. More David Carr news: No one wants the bum because he's just no good. Not even the lowly Browns and Vikings have interest in this guy.

The Beacon Journal reports QB David Carr was waived by the Texans on Friday. The Browns have no interest in the quarterback; it's believed the Oakland Raiders will make the most serious bid for him.

Only the Raiders and their 71 sacks in 2006 have interest. Interestingly, the Raiders fans claim the QB is the current fault for the sacks they gave up. Carr meet your o-line. Should be interesting. I find it ironic that the guy is going to be picked up by the team that has the worst o-line in the league, yet they blame their QB's.

I'm amazed at the lack of knowledge in the voting. Either those voting 'o-line' have never seen Carr play, or they can't judge talent.

 

[FavreCo]

Which of you Carr bashers can explain to me how he led the league in 4th Q passer rating?

Oh my gawd. Tell me you have never seen this guy play. Please.When the other team kicks your cone in, come the 4th Q, they are willing to give you a WR screen pass, a 5 yard dump off to the TE and a dump off to the RB.

 

[djcolts]

Many a player have looked great in the pre-season.

This includes Ryan Leaf in his rookie season. He looked like a world-beater in pre-season his rookie year.

 

[Bri]

Which of you Carr bashers can explain to me how he led the league in 4th Q passer rating?

Oh my gawd. Tell me you have never seen this guy play. Please.When the other team kicks your cone in, come the 4th Q, they are willing to give you a WR screen pass, a 5 yard dump off to the TE and a dump off to the RB.

Yeah sure but completing 70%(or about) of passes TD increase INTs going down AND for a change the Texans weren't blown out every week in 06 it makes me wonder. His 4th Q stats are exceptionally good and it's downright shocking to see.Since I posted that I've seen Rivers and Carr flip flopped in rankings on some stats sites. Some it goes Carr, Manning, Rivers others it goes Rivers, Manning, Carr. (AFC) I haven't taken the time to figure which is correct or why the disparity. 1st or 3rd doesn't really matter it's the actual stats that are to me.

 

[FavreCo]

Which of you Carr bashers can explain to me how he led the league in 4th Q passer rating?

Oh my gawd. Tell me you have never seen this guy play. Please.When the other team kicks your cone in, come the 4th Q, they are willing to give you a WR screen pass, a 5 yard dump off to the TE and a dump off to the RB.

Yeah sure but completing 70%(or about) of passes TD increase INTs going down AND for a change the Texans weren't blown out every week in 06 it makes me wonder. His 4th Q stats are exceptionally good and it's downright shocking to see.Since I posted that I've seen Rivers and Carr flip flopped in rankings on some stats sites. Some it goes Carr, Manning, Rivers others it goes Rivers, Manning, Carr. (AFC) I haven't taken the time to figure which is correct or why the disparity. 1st or 3rd doesn't really matter it's the actual stats that are to me.

The guy doesn't even have the respect of former teammates or defenses that go against him. They all knew he would just dink and dunk so he was easy to game plan against. Ever hear what Keith Bollock said about him? They didn't have to be blown out by the 4th. They just knew come the 4th Q, the game was over.

The Houston Chronicle reports the Titans were expecting exactly what they saw from QB David Carr. He completed 17-of-23 passes for 140 yards but rarely looked downfield. "Carr has a high completion rate," LB Keith Bulluck said. "He throws 6- or 7-yard passes and completes a lot of them, but nothing to really stretch the defense. Nothing that will really hurt you." Carr entered the game leading the NFL with a 69.1 percent completion rate.

Carr is fools gold. If you were a prospector drilling for oil, and you saw some black goo bubbling up in Texas, when you drilled for oil, after spending a fortune to set up, you would find that you drilled thru a sewage line.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Charley Casserly and Dom Capers. They took him and developed him into what you see now. Awful personnel decision after awful personnel decision and lousy coaching turned a talented #1 overall pick into a shell-shocked, gun-shy QB who doesn't throw the ball further than 10 yards down the field. To borrow a line from Jim Mora Sr., Casserly and Capers flat-out "sucked."I rail on Carr all the time. I want him gone badly. I also think the organization screwed him out of the first 4 years of his career. He's developed some awful habits because of this, and IMO he's going to be very hard to fix. Kubiak tried last year and realized that it's a futile effort to develop Carr into a QB here. He needs a change of scenery, and he needs a couple of years on the bench if he's going to have a chance to unlearn these habits. He's going to have to follow the career path of a guy like Jim Plunkett if he's ever going to turn his career around (IMO). If you start him at QB next season in Oakland, Miami, or anywhere else he's going to look like the same QB. I would argue that he'd look like the same QB if you put him on the '89 49ers (well, he'd at least be the guy who brought them down). Despite hating watching Carr play, I really do wish the guy well. He's tough and classy, and never #####ed when he had every right to do so. I don't know if his perceived "lack of fire" or " no passion for the game" is just the way he's always played or brought on by playing for such a clueless HC and GM. Regardless, he'd probably be a half-decent QB if he wasn't stuck playing for those buffoons...

I do feel sorry for him. If he had landed somewhere with a strong culture of winning, he might have really blossomed. Instead, he is a broken QB. Can all the kings horses and all the kings men put Carr back together again? I doubt it. Kubiak made Plummer better almost instantly (albeit on a much better team). Carr looked promising on the first drive of every game, and then reverted to form for the rest of the game. If Kubiak can't change his approach, im not sure anyone can, because it seemed like they really believed in carr when they picked up his option last year.

 

[FavreCo]

I do feel sorry for him. If he had landed somewhere with a strong culture of winning, he might have really blossomed. Instead, he is a broken QB. Can all the kings horses and all the kings men put Carr back together again? I doubt it. Kubiak made Plummer better almost instantly (albeit on a much better team). Carr looked promising on the first drive of every game, and then reverted to form for the rest of the game. If Kubiak can't change his approach, im not sure anyone can, because it seemed like they really believed in carr when they picked up his option last year.

Kubiak really thought he could fix Carr. He made a mistake. He is correcting that mistake.

 

[stevegamer]

I think it's mostly the OL's fault, because of the following 3 things:

1. The Texans' OL the first year was hideous - historically bad. That led to Carr learning to be very gunshy.

2. The Texans OL pass blocking has varied from hideous to bad since that first year- bottom third of the league is as good as it gets.

3. Carr has been sacked at the same rate as the other QB's in Houston over the period from year 2-present. Not a lot of play by other QB's, but there's some.

I think that Schaub might be an upgrade in decision making, but that is unknown. I think the line's pass blocking will improve again with stability, and that will help.

I think Carr goes elsewhere and does better. Classic case of needing a change of scenery.

 

[Todem]

David Carr is a damm good QB. He can make every throw, has good feet, and has a fire in his belly.

I can only hope he lands in a better situation and proves is worth.

As a Dolphin fan I will glady take him despite the fact I still think Daunte Culpepper can still ball if healthy. But if Cam Cameron wants to make a change then please grab Carr not the soon to be 37 year old Green.

 

[FavreCo]

David Carr is a damm good QB. He can make every throw, has good feet, and has a fire in his belly.I can only hope he lands in a better situation and proves is worth.As a Dolphin fan I will glady take him despite the fact I still think Daunte Culpepper can still ball if healthy. But if Cam Cameron wants to make a change then please grab Carr not the soon to be 37 year old Green.

That's some good comedy. Haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

 

[Todem]

David Carr is a damm good QB. He can make every throw, has good feet, and has a fire in his belly.I can only hope he lands in a better situation and proves is worth.As a Dolphin fan I will glady take him despite the fact I still think Daunte Culpepper can still ball if healthy. But if Cam Cameron wants to make a change then please grab Carr not the soon to be 37 year old Green.

That's some good comedy. Haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

Whatever.When Favre retires you will feel the pain we have been feeling since Marino left the game.What comes around goes around.

 

[Bri]

Which of you Carr bashers can explain to me how he led the league in 4th Q passer rating?

Oh my gawd. Tell me you have never seen this guy play. Please.When the other team kicks your cone in, come the 4th Q, they are willing to give you a WR screen pass, a 5 yard dump off to the TE and a dump off to the RB.

Yeah sure but completing 70%(or about) of passes TD increase INTs going down AND for a change the Texans weren't blown out every week in 06 it makes me wonder. His 4th Q stats are exceptionally good and it's downright shocking to see.Since I posted that I've seen Rivers and Carr flip flopped in rankings on some stats sites. Some it goes Carr, Manning, Rivers others it goes Rivers, Manning, Carr. (AFC) I haven't taken the time to figure which is correct or why the disparity. 1st or 3rd doesn't really matter it's the actual stats that are to me.

The guy doesn't even have the respect of former teammates or defenses that go against him. They all knew he would just dink and dunk so he was easy to game plan against. Ever hear what Keith Bollock said about him? They didn't have to be blown out by the 4th. They just knew come the 4th Q, the game was over.

The Houston Chronicle reports the Titans were expecting exactly what they saw from QB David Carr. He completed 17-of-23 passes for 140 yards but rarely looked downfield. "Carr has a high completion rate," LB Keith Bulluck said. "He throws 6- or 7-yard passes and completes a lot of them, but nothing to really stretch the defense. Nothing that will really hurt you." Carr entered the game leading the NFL with a 69.1 percent completion rate.

Carr is fools gold. If you were a prospector drilling for oil, and you saw some black goo bubbling up in Texas, when you drilled for oil, after spending a fortune to set up, you would find that you drilled thru a sewage line.

You do realize his team was the Texans and you made your all encompassing statement then quoted a Titan right?

 

[FavreCo]

The guy doesn't even have the respect of former teammates or defenses that go against him. They all knew he would just dink and dunk so he was easy to game plan against. Ever hear what Keith Bollock said about him? They didn't have to be blown out by the 4th. They just knew come the 4th Q, the game was over.

The Houston Chronicle reports the Titans were expecting exactly what they saw from QB David Carr. He completed 17-of-23 passes for 140 yards but rarely looked downfield. "Carr has a high completion rate," LB Keith Bulluck said. "He throws 6- or 7-yard passes and completes a lot of them, but nothing to really stretch the defense. Nothing that will really hurt you." Carr entered the game leading the NFL with a 69.1 percent completion rate.

Carr is fools gold. If you were a prospector drilling for oil, and you saw some black goo bubbling up in Texas, when you drilled for oil, after spending a fortune to set up, you would find that you drilled thru a sewage line.

You do realize his team was the Texans and you made your all encompassing statement then quoted a Titan right?

Yeah. So. I'm just showing you that no defense had even the least bit of concern playing against the guy. You want a teammate's statement?

You got it.

Dunta Robinson says it's time for David Carr to go elsewhere.

If David Carr winds up back with the Texans next season, there are going to be some awkward moments. Like when Carr and Dunta Robinson end up beside one another at the salad bar. In an interview with ESPN's Cold Pizza, Robinson said he thinks Carr's time in Houston is up.

''I've been with David Carr for three years, and it just hasn't gotten the job done for us,'' he said. ''We haven't been able to win games. We haven't been able to get over that hump, and that's the reason why he was drafted. It's one of those business situation where you hate to see a guy like that go but it's probably best for the team if it does happen.''

How about a few former QB's who know a little bit about playing the position?

You got it.

"To tell you the truth," said another former Oiler, Dan Pastorini, the only quarterback in Houston history to lead teams to the brink of the Super Bowl, which he did in 1978 and 1979. "I'm surprised it took them as long as it did. I was really pulling for Carr, but it's a sad reality of the game. He's a great kid, but you have to deliver in the NFL.

"A lot of what happened to him was his fault. He struggled with his mechanics and not picking things up. He has that sidearm delivery, and he had more balls batted down than any quarterback I've seen."

"I've got some sympathy for the fact that he had to begin his career with an expansion franchise," said Oliver Luck, once Moon's backup with the Oilers. "It's tough to start out as the top draft choice for an expansion team. He wasn't surrounded by great talent, and I think the Texans would admit that. But, quite honestly, I don't have much sympathy for David because he didn't show what a first-round pick needs to show.

Another Pastorini quote:

"This (Carr's release) should have happened a long time ago. When (Sage) Rosenfels got to play, he showed a lot of promise. And I like Schaub's mechanics a lot better than I liked Carr's. But he's got to prove himself."

Sounds like what I have said previously.

This one's not releveant but is funny so I just thought I'd throw it in.

Further, those who observed Carr in social settings were occasionally surprised by his unworldly behavior. After following Carr for a few holes at a celebrity golf tournament, a prominent local doctor who requested anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject said: "He acted like a teenager. It was hard for me to picture him in a huddle, trying to lead an NFL team."

 

[coolnerd]

whether or not you like Peter King, but this fits into this thread

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ.../26/0326/4.html

4. I think maybe we should have seen the Carr firing coming. Those close to Gary Kubiak say Carr did not progress much from the mechanical, non-instinctive player the coach inherited 14 months ago when he got the Texans' job.

Last summer, on a visit to Texans' training camp, I saw Kubiak micromanaging Carr. I thought it was wise at the time to throw so much into trying to save the quarterback's career in Houston. Looking back, you can see how much work Kubiak had to do, and why, in the end, it was too much to overcome. I wrote:

The other day, Carr threw a pass into a coverage scheme that he, and Kubiak, knew right away was the wrong pass at the wrong time. Terrible decision. And instead of soft-pedaling his criticism, which is the way Carr has been treated for four years as the Disappointing Golden Boy of Houston football, Kubiak offered this gem: "You've been in the league four years and you make that throw? There is no way you can make a throw into coverage like that!''

You've got to love a coach who does not come in and kiss the franchise quarterback's rear end. Because smooching is not what this quarterback needed. "David can't assume, 'I'm OK, we've just got to fix the stuff around me,' '' Kubiak told me after a Texans practice, sounding Parcellsian. "He's not OK. He's a long way from being OK. We all are.''

With Kubiak and offensive coordinator Troy Calhoun micromanaging his every move, there's no doubt in my mind Carr's going to be a better player this year. Will he be a franchise quarterback? I don't know. No one does. I have my doubts. He's got to do it under pressure. But he's going to have a chance, even though I think the Texans should have taken Reggie Bush instead of Mario Williams with the first pick in the draft because Carr needs another offensive weapon desperately.

Last Thursday, the day I watched Carr running Houston's talent-shy first-team offense, Kubiak was standing deep downfield, eyeing Carr's mechanics closely. Every so often, he'd see something, amble up and say something to Carr, then go back and resume watching him from afar. It's so fascinating why Kubiak was doing this.

Last winter, when Kubiak sat down to study every game Carr played last year, he noticed something fatal to quarterbacking success. He noticed when Carr faded back to throw, he consistently looked to the side of the field that was his first option. Imagine how crucial this is. If you're a safety, and you've scouted Carr from the end-zone coaches tape that every team sees, and you've seen that you can figure out the side of the field he's trying to throw to the second he begins his pass-drop, wouldn't that be a huge advantage?

When Kubiak first sat down with Carr to watch tape, he said, in so many words: Are you kidding me? You're an NFL quarterback, and you telegraph your throws so blatantly? So on this day, in this practice, Kubiak watched Carr take his drop and watched his eyes as much as his arm. He watched to make sure Carr was surveying the entire field on his drop, not just half of it.

 

[FavreCo]

whether or not you like Peter King, but this fits into this thread

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ.../26/0326/4.html

4. I think maybe we should have seen the Carr firing coming. Those close to Gary Kubiak say Carr did not progress much from the mechanical, non-instinctive player the coach inherited 14 months ago when he got the Texans' job.

Last summer, on a visit to Texans' training camp, I saw Kubiak micromanaging Carr. I thought it was wise at the time to throw so much into trying to save the quarterback's career in Houston. Looking back, you can see how much work Kubiak had to do, and why, in the end, it was too much to overcome. I wrote:

The other day, Carr threw a pass into a coverage scheme that he, and Kubiak, knew right away was the wrong pass at the wrong time. Terrible decision. And instead of soft-pedaling his criticism, which is the way Carr has been treated for four years as the Disappointing Golden Boy of Houston football, Kubiak offered this gem: "You've been in the league four years and you make that throw? There is no way you can make a throw into coverage like that!''

You've got to love a coach who does not come in and kiss the franchise quarterback's rear end. Because smooching is not what this quarterback needed. "David can't assume, 'I'm OK, we've just got to fix the stuff around me,' '' Kubiak told me after a Texans practice, sounding Parcellsian. "He's not OK. He's a long way from being OK. We all are.''

With Kubiak and offensive coordinator Troy Calhoun micromanaging his every move, there's no doubt in my mind Carr's going to be a better player this year. Will he be a franchise quarterback? I don't know. No one does. I have my doubts. He's got to do it under pressure. But he's going to have a chance, even though I think the Texans should have taken Reggie Bush instead of Mario Williams with the first pick in the draft because Carr needs another offensive weapon desperately.

Last Thursday, the day I watched Carr running Houston's talent-shy first-team offense, Kubiak was standing deep downfield, eyeing Carr's mechanics closely. Every so often, he'd see something, amble up and say something to Carr, then go back and resume watching him from afar. It's so fascinating why Kubiak was doing this.

Last winter, when Kubiak sat down to study every game Carr played last year, he noticed something fatal to quarterbacking success. He noticed when Carr faded back to throw, he consistently looked to the side of the field that was his first option. Imagine how crucial this is. If you're a safety, and you've scouted Carr from the end-zone coaches tape that every team sees, and you've seen that you can figure out the side of the field he's trying to throw to the second he begins his pass-drop, wouldn't that be a huge advantage?

When Kubiak first sat down with Carr to watch tape, he said, in so many words: Are you kidding me? You're an NFL quarterback, and you telegraph your throws so blatantly? So on this day, in this practice, Kubiak watched Carr take his drop and watched his eyes as much as his arm. He watched to make sure Carr was surveying the entire field on his drop, not just half of it.

Yet the board reads 106 blaming the OL and 30 of us have it right. Good job, you other 29. You are observant and excellent coaches.