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Carson Palmer Traded to Oakland (1 Viewer)

'scrumptrulescent said:
'LawFitz said:
Jay Glazer "Mike Brown didnt expect a first rd pick. Hue convinced him"

Mike Brown didnt expect a first round pick at all.

Then Hue inquired about him. Mike Brown was being stubborn as well, but since he had such a good relationship with Hue from his time in Cincy it was able to work out. Hue convinced him to make the deal.

All from the Dan Patrick radio show.
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From another forum. Explains why this deal seems so lopsided. MB had ZERO intention of trading Palmer. And Hue had to majorly sweeten the pot to get it done. Say what you will about Palmer. Few here, including myself, have a high opinion of him. But one guy who clearly does is Hue Jackson.And please forgive me for having more faith in Hue's opinion than all of yours (and my own). Hue has been working wonders in Oakland developing talent since the day he arrived as OC. And now he's risking his reputation on Palmer. You think he would do this without analyzing Palmer's "noodle?"
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Well yeah but....didn't you read in this thread how many guys "study the tape"? FF lovers and NFL fans that DVR games and fast forward, slo-mo, rewind recordings of games. Surely they know as much or more than HueJack ever will about football players because they watch a lot of tape. :nerd:
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You could make the same argument about virtually every personnel move ever made. And yet mistakes/pverpayments still happen. This would have been a better sell if Jackson DIDN'T have a personal connection with Palmer.
 
'killrobotkill said:
'massraider said:
Jason Campbell--this guy gets no breaks. I am assuming he'll be looking for a job next year, another new coach, another new offense. Poor guy.
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Agreed. Has he ever played two consecutive years under the same offensive system?
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Yes. Last year and this year, arguably. Even if you think Al Saunders came in and completely overhauled Hue Jackson's offense that worked pretty well last year, he's worked with Saunders before, under Gibbs. He still has looked like a barely-competent game manager. Two years with Zorn, same offensive system until the infamous Bingo Caller was brought in to take over the offense and offensive play-calling. He's mediocre. The system doesn't matter. He'll always receive more sympathy than he deserves, even if he hasn't been in the most ideal situations throughout his career.
 
'FavreCo said:
We are going to get to see if the problem was Palmer's arm or OchoZeros horrid route running. I do know that when passes were intended for Shipley, they were on the money.
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Seeing as how Ocho can't catch a cold on the most fantasy friendly offense to WRs in history, I'm going with Ocho being the problem.
 
'Walton Goggins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Walton Goggins said:
Don't believe the Raiders will have one pick in first 4 rounds next year.
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I'm certainly not a fan of giving up even one first-round pick for Palmer, but Oakland is likely to be picking in the bottom half of the first round for the next few years. There are no guarantees that first-round picks will be a success, especially ones at the back half of the round. But still, this deal was short-sighted. Anything short of a Super Bowl appearance in the next two years renders this a bad deal. And unless our defense has a miraculous transformation, that is not a reality.
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And? Go back and look at recent drafts, a good amount of solid/star players that were had in the later part of the first round.
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And also a lot of turds taken in the late first round. Not gaurantees that a late first round player will hit.
 
'Bruno2 said:
Obviously the Bengals made out like bandits... But I'm curious, for those of you bashing the Raiders, what would you do? Say you're in the organization, your leader just passed away, you're fielding the best team you have in over 10 years, you're invested in the players you have now and you believe in them. What do you do? Just ride it out with Boller and watch your season go down the tubes? Clearly they overpaid for Palmer and in part, mortgaged their future, but they do have a realistic opportunity to win the AFC West and make the playoffs. Do you just throw in the towel and run DMC and Bush 50 times a game and continue to call fake punts to win games? I'm being sarcastic with the last statement, but seriously Boller is not the answer. They NEED a QB in the worst way now. They might be a little crazy, but I commend them for at least trying. There are no garauntees with 1st round picks, especially the ones the Raiders draft.
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Here is one thing that should have been done, if you think your back up QB sucks then address that situation in the off-season. What is the point of having a back up QB that you can't trust to play QB? It is somewhat understandable that the Colts got caught. Manning has never been hurt before. If your number two guy is so bad that you can't trust him at all then why even have him take up a roster spot? It is a waste of salary. I don't know what the asking price for Kyle Orton was, but I'd guess about a third round pick. There were money issues, Orton is due to make almost $5 million for the rest of the year. I like Orton for a third a lot better than Palmer for two firsts. Maybe the salary demands would have tripped up an Orton to the Raiders trade. Maybe Orton didn't want to go there. Or maybe the Broncos refused to trade him within his division. But that would make more sense to be than trading for a washed up Palmer, and giving what could be two first round picks for that privilege. The Bears didn't give up much more than that for Cutler and he was a player ready to go in to his prime, coming off a Pro Bowl season. The Cardinals got Kolb for DRC and a second round pick. Schaub went for dropping two spots in the first round, and two second round picks. Even one first round pick is steep for Palmer, but two is highway robbery IMO.
 
'Clifford said:
'FavreCo said:
We are going to get to see if the problem was Palmer's arm or OchoZeros horrid route running. I do know that when passes were intended for Shipley, they were on the money.
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Seeing as how Ocho can't catch a cold on the most fantasy friendly offense to WRTEs in history, I'm going with Ocho being the problem.
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'Sweet Love said:
'notdarkyet said:
At worst it's a first and a second. As a Bengals fan, I am ecstatic. Hell hath frozen over and Mike Brown ended up making the right move and making out like a bandit.
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I have not gone through the whole thread, so I am not sure whether this has been stated, but when Mike Brown chooses to trade someone, it is usually because he feels he will make out big time or that player is at the end of their rope. You look at some of the recent decisions with skilled players (not resigning Housh, moving Ocho, and now Palmer) and he only will move those players when he feels he has people in place that are as good or better. Even the trade of Dillon was orchestrated only after he knew he had a RB in Rudi...then Rudi is gone and he fades away, just like the rest.I am not saying this is the right way to do it (he did leave a 1st on the table when he did not move Ocho a few years back to the Skins, but it does show a pattern. Whem Mike Brown says, OK, lets trade", as a GM, you better watch out because you likely will get the short end of the deal.
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Haven't read the whole thread either. I think Brown fell into a really fortuitous situation. His sulking over Palmer ended up driving up the price anyone would have to pay to get him. And I think he lucked out and the Raiders were a perfect storm of needing a QB, liking Palmer, having someone who could soothe Brown's hurt ego, and being willing to fork over enough picks even Brown would do it.I don't give him much credit in the Palmer situation at all. Though they did draft well this last year.
 
'RhymesMcJuice said:
As a Chargers fan I love this deal.
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Um, how did the Chargers get knocked out of playoff contention last year?....I mean as a Bengals fan I love the deal - it's pure win - but I'm not going to say that Palmer doesn't end up doing right by the Raiders when all is said and done.-QG
 
'twistd said:
'Bruno2 said:
Obviously the Bengals made out like bandits... But I'm curious, for those of you bashing the Raiders, what would you do? Say you're in the organization, your leader just passed away, you're fielding the best team you have in over 10 years, you're invested in the players you have now and you believe in them. What do you do? Just ride it out with Boller and watch your season go down the tubes? Clearly they overpaid for Palmer and in part, mortgaged their future, but they do have a realistic opportunity to win the AFC West and make the playoffs. Do you just throw in the towel and run DMC and Bush 50 times a game and continue to call fake punts to win games? I'm being sarcastic with the last statement, but seriously Boller is not the answer. They NEED a QB in the worst way now. They might be a little crazy, but I commend them for at least trying. There are no garauntees with 1st round picks, especially the ones the Raiders draft.
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Here is one thing that should have been done, if you think your back up QB sucks then address that situation in the off-season. What is the point of having a back up QB that you can't trust to play QB? It is somewhat understandable that the Colts got caught. Manning has never been hurt before. If your number two guy is so bad that you can't trust him at all then why even have him take up a roster spot? It is a waste of salary. I don't know what the asking price for Kyle Orton was, but I'd guess about a third round pick. There were money issues, Orton is due to make almost $5 million for the rest of the year. I like Orton for a third a lot better than Palmer for two firsts. Maybe the salary demands would have tripped up an Orton to the Raiders trade. Maybe Orton didn't want to go there. Or maybe the Broncos refused to trade him within his division. But that would make more sense to be than trading for a washed up Palmer, and giving what could be two first round picks for that privilege. The Bears didn't give up much more than that for Cutler and he was a player ready to go in to his prime, coming off a Pro Bowl season. The Cardinals got Kolb for DRC and a second round pick. Schaub went for dropping two spots in the first round, and two second round picks. Even one first round pick is steep for Palmer, but two is highway robbery IMO.
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Agreed... They did screw themselves by not having a QB2 they have faith in... That being said they put themselves in this situation to over pay (waaaay over pay) for Palmer. But in my mind they had to do something, and its slim pickings for QBs. If they would have stood pat with Boller their season would have been over. Thats not to say Palmer won't flop either, its a huge gamble and Hue's behind is on the line with this trade, but at least they're trying to keep the ship afloat. Orton for a 3rd sounds ideal, but I bet the Broncos didn't want to trade him to their rivals in the same division.
 
This is good for Oak in the short term, this year. This is bad for Oak long term though. No way Palmer is worth that much right now. Cinci made out like gang busters. They just dumped a guy who wasn't going to play for them anyway and got 2 first rounders for him. Unbelievable. Cinci is already a pretty good team. If they use those picks right, they could be scary good in a few years. Oak must think the time is now to win. Can't blame them for that approach but man, that is a lot for a guy who is basically an average QB right now.

 
The conditional portion of this trade is if the Raiders win a playoff game this year, then it is the 2012 1st and 2013 1st. If not, the 2013 pick is a 2nd. As reported by NFL Live.

 
'Greg Russell said:
'Teef said:
'RhymesMcJuice said:
As a Chargers fan I love this deal.
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You're glad the Raiders got better? :confused:
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I think the Raiders got better in the short term and will be worse in the long term. So if I were a Chargers fan I'd be glad for the trade too.
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Except that Rivers, Gates, Jackson, etc are in their prime NOW. In a few years, this deal may hurt the Raiders, but by that time who knows if SD will be any good or if KC/DEN will be the teams to benefit. The rebuilding job going on in Cincy right now is both surprising and impressive. With the moves they've made over the last 8 months, it won't be long.
 
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'krsone21 said:
'Walton Goggins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Walton Goggins said:
Don't believe the Raiders will have one pick in first 4 rounds next year.
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I'm certainly not a fan of giving up even one first-round pick for Palmer, but Oakland is likely to be picking in the bottom half of the first round for the next few years. There are no guarantees that first-round picks will be a success, especially ones at the back half of the round. But still, this deal was short-sighted. Anything short of a Super Bowl appearance in the next two years renders this a bad deal. And unless our defense has a miraculous transformation, that is not a reality.
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And? Go back and look at recent drafts, a good amount of solid/star players that were had in the later part of the first round.
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And also a lot of turds taken in the late first round. Not gaurantees that a late first round player will hit.
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Thanks, Captain Obvious. This also in: The sky is blue!I guess we should abandon the entire draft since there are "no guarantees" :rolleyes:

 
'Warrior said:
'krsone21 said:
'Walton Goggins said:
'Raider Nation said:
'Walton Goggins said:
Don't believe the Raiders will have one pick in first 4 rounds next year.
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I'm certainly not a fan of giving up even one first-round pick for Palmer, but Oakland is likely to be picking in the bottom half of the first round for the next few years. There are no guarantees that first-round picks will be a success, especially ones at the back half of the round. But still, this deal was short-sighted. Anything short of a Super Bowl appearance in the next two years renders this a bad deal. And unless our defense has a miraculous transformation, that is not a reality.
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And? Go back and look at recent drafts, a good amount of solid/star players that were had in the later part of the first round.
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And also a lot of turds taken in the late first round. Not gaurantees that a late first round player will hit.
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Thanks, Captain Obvious. This also in: The sky is blue!I guess we should abandon the entire draft since there are "no guarantees" :rolleyes:
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That seems to be what the Raiders are doing :lmao:
 
'BigSteelThrill said:
'Joe Summer said:
'BigSteelThrill said:
Palmer was pretty crappy the last couple years.
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No he wasn't. He was average. Slightly above average, actually.
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Are you talking #s, or actual play on the field? He was pretty bad/sad on the field. I own him.
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He was or was it his offensive coaching, blocking and/or receiving partners? Raiders are probably an upgrade in each of these categories compared to the last year's Bungles.Too often we make the mistake of looking at players in a vacuum. I'm certainly guilty of it at times.

 
I like this deal for both organizations, even though the Raiders overpaid on paper. I see it several ways.

1) With Campbell, Raiders are a borderline playoff team. I've watched nearly every OAK game this year and he has done nothing that is actually impressive. Hard to say he was holding the offense back considering the available options, but Campbell is probably good enough to get into the playoffs if SD falters or the wildcard competition isn't too intense. But OAK would struggle to win a playoff game.

2) With Boeller, the Raiders are not even close to a playoff team. Maybe they finish 8-8 with their good start, but while Campbell is probably a neutral QB at best, Boeller is a negative.

3) There are no other options out there other than Palmer who could provide the push necessary. Not that Palmer is the best guy out there. But he's the best guy by a mile and no other available QB is going to keep OAK in the playoff hunt while Palmer offers that opportunity.

4) With the playoffs as a very real prize this year, OAK decided that they'd rather make the push to get there than wait for a year, when stars might align differently for them.

5) OAK decided that it is more important to make their push right now and take the gamble with Palmer, who has worked with several OAK coaches, including Hue Jackson, in the past then with two future picks.

6) OAK knowingly overpaid the market because their situation isn't neutral. This isn't preseason or FA when there are other options.

Ultimately, this was get Palmer, or go home in 2011. Personally, I think getting Palmer gives them a better shot at a playoff appearance, now or in the future, than two first rounders. Getting a playoff caliber QB is one of the most difficult things to do in the NFL. Maybe it doesn't pan out, but I give the Raiders credit for taking the risk. And I hate the Raiders.

 
'johnadams said:
I like this deal for both organizations, even though the Raiders overpaid on paper. I see it several ways.1) With Campbell, Raiders are a borderline playoff team. I've watched nearly every OAK game this year and he has done nothing that is actually impressive. Hard to say he was holding the offense back considering the available options, but Campbell is probably good enough to get into the playoffs if SD falters or the wildcard competition isn't too intense. But OAK would struggle to win a playoff game.2) With Boeller, the Raiders are not even close to a playoff team. Maybe they finish 8-8 with their good start, but while Campbell is probably a neutral QB at best, Boeller is a negative.3) There are no other options out there other than Palmer who could provide the push necessary. Not that Palmer is the best guy out there. But he's the best guy by a mile and no other available QB is going to keep OAK in the playoff hunt while Palmer offers that opportunity.4) With the playoffs as a very real prize this year, OAK decided that they'd rather make the push to get there than wait for a year, when stars might align differently for them. 5) OAK decided that it is more important to make their push right now and take the gamble with Palmer, who has worked with several OAK coaches, including Hue Jackson, in the past then with two future picks.6) OAK knowingly overpaid the market because their situation isn't neutral. This isn't preseason or FA when there are other options. Ultimately, this was get Palmer, or go home in 2011. Personally, I think getting Palmer gives them a better shot at a playoff appearance, now or in the future, than two first rounders. Getting a playoff caliber QB is one of the most difficult things to do in the NFL. Maybe it doesn't pan out, but I give the Raiders credit for taking the risk. And I hate the Raiders.
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Really great informative post.
 
'cheese said:
'Greg Russell said:
'Teef said:
'RhymesMcJuice said:
As a Chargers fan I love this deal.
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You're glad the Raiders got better? :confused:
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I think the Raiders got better in the short term and will be worse in the long term. So if I were a Chargers fan I'd be glad for the trade too.
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Except that Rivers, Gates, Jackson, etc are in their prime NOW. In a few years, this deal may hurt the Raiders, but by that time who knows if SD will be any good or if KC/DEN will be the teams to benefit. The rebuilding job going on in Cincy right now is both surprising and impressive. With the moves they've made over the last 8 months, it won't be long.
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I think that's a short-sighted way of looking of things. The difference is the Chargers have the picks they can replace those quality players as they get old, and the Raiders don't now to the same degree. While I do think Palmer is an upgrade, it isn't a slam dunk that he's going to be that much of an upgrade even given there are some questions about how he looked last time he played (and I'm talking physically, not based on the quality of the team that used to be around him).
 
'BigSteelThrill said:
Palmer was pretty crappy the last couple years.
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Palmer also was sick and tired of Cinci coaches, ownership and their WRs and has wanted out for a while now. Yeah, Raiders paid a steep price but he's the best QB they've had under center since Rich Gannon. They don't need to groom him, just give him the playbook and 2 weeks and he's going to elevate this team a couple of notches. Raiders have a better O line than Cinci a corps of WRs who aren't primadonnas and a hell of a running game. How is this not going to be magnificent??
 
NFL Network's Michael Lombardi reported that the 2013 second-round pick will become a first-rounder if the Raiders play in the AFC Championship Game in either of the next two years.
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So the pick upgrade clause is not just winning a playoff game. It's winning a divisional (2nd round) playoff game. And I assume there's a clause in there that Palmer has to be the starting QB.So if Palmer succeeds, this trade will be for a late first and a late second, with a small chance for two late firsts. If Palmer flops, it will be for an early-mid first and an early-mid second, still a huge bounty, but not two (possibly early) first rounders, as some around here have been quick to speculate.

Under the Palmer succeeding scenario, it would be well worth it to the Raiders, so that's the mindset Hue's taking. He believes in Palmer so for now at least, so do I. One thing I do know... Palmer is stepping into a great situation. The Raiders main weakness this season offensively has been at QB. Jason Campbell was a game manager and nothing more. The guy was terrible throwing downfield.

If Palmer is anything close to what he once was, this 2011 Raiders team just received a huge improvement at QB. The OL is playing lights out, the running game is the best in the NFL and the WRs are young, hungry and talented. And the coaching staff is displaying creativity, aggressiveness and the ability to adjust the offense to players' strengths. There is reason to be optimistic today, if one is all in with Hue Jackson. Some one said this before and it's so freaking true... Hue Jackson = Huge Action!!!

 
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'Bruno2 said:
'twistd said:
'Bruno2 said:
Obviously the Bengals made out like bandits... But I'm curious, for those of you bashing the Raiders, what would you do? Say you're in the organization, your leader just passed away, you're fielding the best team you have in over 10 years, you're invested in the players you have now and you believe in them. What do you do? Just ride it out with Boller and watch your season go down the tubes? Clearly they overpaid for Palmer and in part, mortgaged their future, but they do have a realistic opportunity to win the AFC West and make the playoffs. Do you just throw in the towel and run DMC and Bush 50 times a game and continue to call fake punts to win games? I'm being sarcastic with the last statement, but seriously Boller is not the answer. They NEED a QB in the worst way now. They might be a little crazy, but I commend them for at least trying. There are no garauntees with 1st round picks, especially the ones the Raiders draft.
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Here is one thing that should have been done, if you think your back up QB sucks then address that situation in the off-season. What is the point of having a back up QB that you can't trust to play QB? It is somewhat understandable that the Colts got caught. Manning has never been hurt before. If your number two guy is so bad that you can't trust him at all then why even have him take up a roster spot? It is a waste of salary. I don't know what the asking price for Kyle Orton was, but I'd guess about a third round pick. There were money issues, Orton is due to make almost $5 million for the rest of the year. I like Orton for a third a lot better than Palmer for two firsts. Maybe the salary demands would have tripped up an Orton to the Raiders trade. Maybe Orton didn't want to go there. Or maybe the Broncos refused to trade him within his division. But that would make more sense to be than trading for a washed up Palmer, and giving what could be two first round picks for that privilege. The Bears didn't give up much more than that for Cutler and he was a player ready to go in to his prime, coming off a Pro Bowl season. The Cardinals got Kolb for DRC and a second round pick. Schaub went for dropping two spots in the first round, and two second round picks. Even one first round pick is steep for Palmer, but two is highway robbery IMO.
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Agreed... They did screw themselves by not having a QB2 they have faith in... That being said they put themselves in this situation to over pay (waaaay over pay) for Palmer. But in my mind they had to do something, and its slim pickings for QBs. If they would have stood pat with Boller their season would have been over. Thats not to say Palmer won't flop either, its a huge gamble and Hue's behind is on the line with this trade, but at least they're trying to keep the ship afloat. Orton for a 3rd sounds ideal, but I bet the Broncos didn't want to trade him to their rivals in the same division.
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You could be right, the Broncos may have been very reluctant to trade Orton within the division. And any of those other things may have been obstacles. I understand the Raiders want to win now. But I really don't think the Raiders are good enough to beat the Patriots or the Ravens. I think the Patriots and the Ravens are the class of the AFC right now. They might be able to get past the Chargers and win the division. But I don't think they have the horses to compete with the top teams in the conference. The only way this pays off is if they make a run at a Super Bowl this year. And I would say, before anyone starts getting too excited about the Bengals really turning these picks in to gold, let's remember that these are the Bengals. Things are looking pretty good right now for them. Mike Brown may have fleeced the Raiders on this trade,but Mike Brown has screwed things up before. Don't take for granted that he won't screw this up too. Mike Brown is one of the least capable football executives in the league. His record of incompetence speaks for itself. Two winning seasons in 20 years. So let's not take for granted that these extra picks will be used wisely.
 
it was expensive, but the Raiders aren't going to have a high picks the next few years, especially if Palmer gives them enough at QB so the run game can be that Bully. Expensive but good move.

 
There are a lot of teams with bad QB2 situations. OAK is not alone. In fact, there are very few with good QB2 situations. I haven't looked at every team's back-ups, but I can't think of a single team that has a back-up that's good enough to lead them to the playoffs. The reality is that on most playoff contending teams, the drop from their starting QB to the back-up QB is so great that they all would be very questionable to make the playoffs. It's a little disingenuous to say that OAK should have dealt with their QB2 situation during preseason when almost nobody has a good enough back-up. Personally, I think Campbell isn't much more than a quality back-up in relation to the top QBs, but there is such a shortage of quality QBs, that he's actually good enough to be a starter.

 
'twistd said:
You could be right, the Broncos may have been very reluctant to trade Orton within the division. And any of those other things may have been obstacles. I understand the Raiders want to win now. But I really don't think the Raiders are good enough to beat the Patriots or the Ravens. I think the Patriots and the Ravens are the class of the AFC right now. They might be able to get past the Chargers and win the division. But I don't think they have the horses to compete with the top teams in the conference. The only way this pays off is if they make a run at a Super Bowl this year.
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I disagree with this. What if they make a Super Bowl run next year, was it not worth it? Or the year after? And the entire "Super Bowl run, or it's a waste" concept I disagree with. The Raiders cannot waste a potential division crown. Are the a Super Bowl contender? I would say almost certainly not. But that's why the have the phrase Cinderella. Every year, the NFL proves just how unpredictable it is. Steelers, Rams, Eagles, Colts, whole lotta unpredictability this year. One quick thing on the backup QB thing: Almost every team in the league is screwed if they have to go to the backup QB for 10 games, and try and win the division. Boller, and almost every other backup QB in the league, is there to hold the fort for a game or three. If there is a backup QB that can provide a seamless transition for 10+ games, he wouldn't be a backup.

 
'twistd said:
But I really don't think the Raiders are good enough to beat the Patriots or the Ravens. I think the Patriots and the Ravens are the class of the AFC right now. They might be able to get past the Chargers and win the division. But I don't think they have the horses to compete with the top teams in the conference. The only way this pays off is if they make a run at a Super Bowl this year.
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I wouldn't bet against them beating the Patriots. Raiders have a huge X factor in McFadden that can keep Brady off the field.Until the Patriots fix that defense, they're going to continue to be beatable in the playoffs (No matter how good they continue to be in the regular season).
 
'yellowdog said:
Noodle arm from January of this year.

December 2010

November 2010

October 2010

His arm looks fine. Maybe not what it was in 2005, but not many have that anyway.

Sorry about the confusion on the other video link. I searched for Carson Palmer 2010 highlight and that was what I got.
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There could still be an issue with Palmer trying to make throws that he can't any more (or can't consistently).

I'm really liking this trade for the Raiders- this guy had the talent to be the 3rd best QB in DVOA his 2nd year starting and was #4 and #9 the two years after a major knee injury. A 10% chance of getting that guy back almost makes this deal worth it.

 
'johnadams said:
There are a lot of teams with bad QB2 situations. OAK is not alone. In fact, there are very few with good QB2 situations. I haven't looked at every team's back-ups, but I can't think of a single team that has a back-up that's good enough to lead them to the playoffs. The reality is that on most playoff contending teams, the drop from their starting QB to the back-up QB is so great that they all would be very questionable to make the playoffs. It's a little disingenuous to say that OAK should have dealt with their QB2 situation during preseason when almost nobody has a good enough back-up. Personally, I think Campbell isn't much more than a quality back-up in relation to the top QBs, but there is such a shortage of quality QBs, that he's actually good enough to be a starter.
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You make a good point...
 
'Bruno2 said:
'FavreCo said:
'johnadams said:
'eakfootball said:
One of the worst trades of the decade
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I heard the same thing when they shipped a first rounder for a supposed over the hill Richard Seymour.
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You can only laugh at a 'worst trade' statement before any results are in.
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And its only 2011, there's nine more years for teams desparate to win now to make trades that may or may not help them win.
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I think the Raiders end remains in question. Great deal for Cincy, no matter what they do with the picks.
 
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