"Catching Hell" ESPN Bartman Documentary (1 Viewer)

[Limp Ditka]

Why are the Cubs more popular than the White Sox?

Have you been to the south side?

Yes, I have plenty of relatives that live on the south side. Was just there earlier this month.As a kid I went to several games at Comiskey and could see the fireworks from my cousins balcony

Well I'd say ita WGN and the ffriendlly lovable loser atmospherel surrounding the team. Oh and general perception of white sox fans being scum bag criminals

Then throw in the fact that Wrigley is surrounded by nice neighborhoods and block after block of bars/clubs/restaurants. After a Sox game, you get in your car or grab the El and get outta Dodge.

this

 

[AmosMoses]

Alou would have dropped it.

 

[curta269]

Alou would have dropped it.

^^This^^

 

[curta269]

Watched this tonight. I felt like I was watching the 21st century version of the JFK assassination. Crazy story and make Cubs fans look really bad, but they do a good job of that by themselves.

 

[Mile High]

Watched this tonight. I felt like I was watching the 21st century version of the JFK assassination. Crazy story and make Cubs fans look really bad, but they do a good job of that by themselves.

Agree. Why not blame the players? They had lots of chances afterwards to make plays.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Ya know, I get that having frustration because of how long it has been since they won anything, but this attitude that the sky is falling the second anything goes wrong is for the birds, and it carries over to the team. A few years back when they got swept by the Dodgers in the first round, Game 1 was going well, but the minute the Dodgers had a good inning to take a lead (and it was only a 4-2 deficit in the 5th inning), the entire stadium went deathly silent like they were at a funeral, and the team look terrified the rest of the series while getting swept.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $$ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

 

[Sarnoff]

The further the film strayed from Bartman, the weaker it became. The first 20 min and last half hour were almost entirely superfluous. The Book of Leviticus and Bill Buckner should have ended up on the cutting room floor.

Way too long.

 

[biggamer3]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $$ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

I second this as dumbest post.After watching this doc, and hearing from all the fans around Bartman, they all said it was clearly foul and blew back into left field. Many fans near Bartman tried to catch it. Yeah for sure there were money signs going through his head in that tenth of a second!

 

[Sarnoff]

The author, Scott Turow, comes off like a real d#ck

 

[Mile High]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $$ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The woman who helped him was a Saint, no doubt about it.

"I gave him complete control of my cable"

 

[RnR]

I admit I didn't know he played high school baseball. So did I. I never hung around with the type of guy who'd sit at a playoff game with headphones on, listening to the radio broadcast though. And I would, admittedly stereotypically, not be surprised if "that guy" didn't know better than to screw up a game by interfering with a ball in play.

This doesn't make any sense. The guy with the radio broadcast in his ear is most likely the " baseball guy." He's not going to screw this up on purpose, he's probably been obsessing over the box scores for weeks leading up to this. The drunken "brah" like your pal in the video is much more likely, stereotypically speaking, to be the bonehead here.

 

[Widbil83]

where's the blame for Alex Gonzalez?

Yeah no kidding. Booting an easy double play to end the inning. Or better yet, where is the blame for the Cubs pissing all over themselves the next night and losing game 7 at home?

 

[trader jake]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

where's the blame for Alex Gonzalez?

It's easier for a loser to blame someone else instead of looking in the mirror.

I forget who the pitcher was during the Buckner incident, but they showed video of him after the game, and he flat out blamed Buckner for losing that game. Nevermind the wild pitch that scored the tying run one batter before. What a doosh.

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $$ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

It was a foul ball in Game 6 of the NLCS. I seriously doubt there is a whole lot of money there. And Bartman was just an innocent fan who got a little excited. As anyone can plainly see, there were over 40,000 excited fans at Wrigley that night. 99.9% of them would have done the same thing. You act as though he is solely to blame. Sorry, but your post is dumb. I am not saying YOU are dumb, but your post is dumb.

 

[Tom Servo]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

Nice to see you doubling down on this shtick.Remind me again how many Gold Gloves Alou has won.

 

[belljr]

Missed the last half hour, very good. I feel sorry for people that take this #### so seriously. I used too and life is too short to care that much.

yes I played sports (mainly baseball) for 20+ years just so my resume is "approved"

 

[AcerFC]

If anyone in this documentary needs to get punched in the face it is the ##### sales rep Jim Cuthbert who apparently 8 years later still thinks he is cool.

If this is the guy that threw the beer I agree.

 

[AcerFC]

Bartman's friends don't come off too well either

I was thinking the same thing. Who doesnt talk to the guy they came with. Why does he have to turn around to lawyer lady and guy that got the ball guy to ask if he did anything wrong

 

[Eephus]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

 

[AcerFC]

My buddy is the guy in the visor and "Got Rings" tshirt in this clip.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17275943&topic_id=8877494&c_id=nyy

He said that a) he was wasted....and b) he just "knew" he shouldn't interfere with the play.

I just can't buy the "anyone would have gone for it" Bartman excuse.

A bit different as the ball was clearly never in the stands. And your buddy saw Tex coming for it from the get go

 

[Arizona Ron]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

 

[Idiot Boxer]

I want to punch Jeffrey Maier in the junk. Leave Bartman along.

 

[wadegarrett]

Well done but could have been an hour. Anyone who's watching that show already knows all that historical curse stuff. Too much .

 

[Da Guru]

Was watching the show with my wife..I felt really bad for Bill Buckner, you can see he is a broken man. It is amazing at how one booted ground ball can ruin a career and a life. Seems like he is on the verge of tears all the time. Then the fans carrying the sign 20 years later saying "Bill Buckner we forgive you" I know they meant well but it probably made Buckner feel even worse. Buckner seems like a really good guy..it was very sad.

 

[NewlyRetired]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

Can it really be anything more than this?"a fly ball came to me, I instinctively reached up and got in the way. My life was seriously disrupted. I wish it never happened"

 

[Eephus]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

Can it really be anything more than this?"a fly ball came to me, I instinctively reached up and got in the way. My life was seriously disrupted. I wish it never happened"

If he appeared on network TV in 2004 and made that simple public statement, do you think ESPN would commission a two hour documentary about him seven years later?

 

[TobiasFunke]

My buddy is the guy in the visor and "Got Rings" tshirt in this clip.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17275943&topic_id=8877494&c_id=nyy

He said that a) he was wasted....and b) he just "knew" he shouldn't interfere with the play.

I just can't buy the "anyone would have gone for it" Bartman excuse.

And you don't think in any way the Bartman incident has had an effect on baseball fans that sit near the lines, now? You don't think maybe it's one of the first things they think of when they sit down? As someone who frequents the ballpark I always think of that incident whenever I sit near or in row 1.

I think that's a pretty loose connection. I don't think that Bartman changed the way people's minds are wired. I think people who play and "get" sports know what's right....and dorks like Bartman who look like they've never been the least bit athletic in their life, have no clue of what to do.

I think CardTrader is right.

Also, no offense, but I think your friend is giving you a little revisionist history. Watch the highlight you linked to again. Your buddy sticks his hands out to catch the ball just like Bartman did, and only pulls back at the last second, quite possibly because Teixiera is running right at him and sticking a glove in his face. Bartman didn't have that going for him because the wall was higher- neither Alou nor his glove was charging right towards him to give him the situational awareness your friend got at the very last second.

 

[comfortably numb]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

Can it really be anything more than this?"a fly ball came to me, I instinctively reached up and got in the way. My life was seriously disrupted. I wish it never happened"

If he appeared on network TV in 2004 and made that simple public statement, do you think ESPN would commission a two hour documentary about him seven years later?

Of course they would.It was a controversial play that people think kept the Cubs from winning a WS, which they haven't done in 100 years.There is a story there regardless of him being in the public eye or not.I am sure Buckner made a public statement or 6, and plenty of stories on him

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $$ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

Just when I think it can't get any dumber around here.......

 

[NewlyRetired]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

Can it really be anything more than this?"a fly ball came to me, I instinctively reached up and got in the way. My life was seriously disrupted. I wish it never happened"

If he appeared on network TV in 2004 and made that simple public statement, do you think ESPN would commission a two hour documentary about him seven years later?

Yes, sadly I do think the story would still be out there.

 

[comfortably numb]

The most amazing thing to me is the fact Bartman has never gotten in front of a camera and told his story.

It's almost unheard of in the 21st century for the media not to have access to a public figure. The ongoing mystery feeds the legend and helps keeps it alive.

Can it really be anything more than this?"a fly ball came to me, I instinctively reached up and got in the way. My life was seriously disrupted. I wish it never happened"

exactlyit's kinda cool to sit here and say "real" baseball people know what to do, blah blah blahGuy got caught up in the moment and reached for a ball that may have not been caught anyway, so lets blame everything on this guy.

 

[Monsieur Meursault]

And that guy that threw the beer is a total jackass. Not sure if he said that he feels bad about it today, I don't recall him being remorseful in the documentary. But he seemed pretty smarmy and full of himself.

 

[Wrigley]

As I said before

ain:

 

[comfortably numb]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

I have heard fans chant ####### when a the dude singing the national anthem trips on his way up to the mic, when a 8 year old ball boy drops a ball or when fan wearing an opposing teams hat walks into the section, so, yea clearly 50'000 fans speaking are always right.

 

[Walton Goggins]

I should say though that I don't think Bartman was innocent. He acted like he was this feeble little boy or fan but he was thinking $ or personal greed/satisfaction when that ball was coming towards him. This should be an interesting documentary/film, by far this has been the best thing ESPN has done in the last 10 years with all these spotlights on historical sports happenings be it really old or more recent history.

This is one of the dumbest quotes I have ever read.

He was in the front row, he knew what he was getting into, I say let him take all the heat. It's easy to say something is dumb when you can't come up with a decent rebuttal or better POV, props out.

You're kidding right. It would have been just the second out of the inning in game 6 they lead 3-0 at the time. The collapse is all on the players.

People think that ball was clearly foul? No one thinks Alou would have made that catch? If it were that obvious I don't think 50,000 folks at the stadium that night would have been chanting #######. The fans have spoken and it's clearly Bartman's fault. Who are we to really question Cubs fans? They've suffered enough. That's guilt you see on Bartman's face not sadness.

After that mess how many runs did the Cubs choke and give up to the Marlins? Sorry but the fault is fully on the Cubs players who folded like a cheap suit. From Prior to Gonzales. Hell they still had another home game left to win.

 

[Walton Goggins]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

 

[Tom Servo]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

 

[SecondCity34]

I can't imagine what Bartman has gone through the past 8 years. He certainly didn't intend to affect the outcome of the game, in my opinion - he was just trying to catch a foul ball. Alex Gonzalez is the real goat of the game for booting that potential double-play ball shortly after the Bartman play.

That being said, in Game 2 of that same series, there was a foul ball coming down near the Marlins' on-deck circle. The Cubs catcher (I believe it was Damian Miller, but I am not 100% certain) reached for it, but a fan in the front row caught it just above Miller's glove. Miller glared briefly at the fan who caught it and there was a smattering of boos, but the at bat continued and the play didn't in any way affect the outcome of the game.

However, having seen that very similar play just a few days earlier, I would think that would have been a wake-up call to fans sitting in the front row at any game (particularly one of such importance) not to reach out for a ball that could be catchable by your team's player. When the ball was coming down near Bartman in Game 6 and I saw a bunch of fans reach for it, that play in Game 2 immediately popped into my head and I remember thinking, "Don't these dumb###es ever learn?"

Still, I do very feel bad for Bartman.

 

[Walton Goggins]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?

Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

Should have bolded the last two sentences. I don't bet on baseball.ETA: "Sactimonious"

 

[wadegarrett]

And that guy that threw the beer is a total jackass. Not sure if he said that he feels bad about it today, I don't recall him being remorseful in the documentary. But he seemed pretty smarmy and full of himself.

Yeah that guy is a total dickbag still today.

 

[roadkill1292]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

Oh, we could have a delightful argument about that. I think fandom is a terrifically flawed character trait.

 

[jon_mx]

Poor Bartman has become the LHUCKS of baseball fans.

 

[Arizona Ron]

GB not being a fan of any team. I bet the games, win/lose then move on with my week. Amazing how people treat teams like it's a part of their lives. Sad really.

Wow, why don't you two have a seat over there in the sactimonious box with Rick Reilly?

Fan of team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gambling degenerate

"de·gen·er·ate/diˈjenərit/Adjective: Having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline."This sounds like more Fans that I know then gamblers. I lose a few bucks on a game, no big deal next week is another bet. Your Team loses and it ruins your week.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

It was ok, not great.

Waaaaay too much time spent on the Red Sox (who shouldn't have even been mentioned at all, except maybe to compare/contrast for 15 seconds). Cubs fans come off looking real bad, which is a shame. There should have been some time spent on the 1945 World Series. There should have been some time spent on the 1969 collapse (other than to say "The Miracle Mets won", now let's talk about the Red Sox some more).

It's real easy to judge the Cubs and their fans if you are not one, or if you hate them. Did Bartman himself blow the game? Of course not. Did he deserve to have beer thrown on him and be called ##### and receive death threats? Of course not. Are Cubs fans 99.999999% of the time that big of dooshes? I say no. You probably think differently if you hate the team and/or their fans. But unless you are a Cubs fan, and have been one your whole life, you really have no frame of reference what it's like. You have no idea what it feels like to have your team out of it by the end of June. You have no idea the pressure that builds upon the team and the fans on the unlikely event that they do make the postseason. You have no idea what it's like for not only you, but your father, and maybe even your grandfather never seeing them win it all. Are they really cursed? Tough to say. But bagging on the fans because the minute the Bartman incident happened, the air went out of the stadium.....well, once again, you have no frame of reference.

I will remember this event vividly my entire life. I'm one of those superstitious fans that believes I have to be focused and concentrating on the game for them to do well. I had just gotten out of grad school, and had an all-day interview at a college (that I didn't really want to work at) on the day of Game 6. The beginning part of my day was all interviews. Did perfectly fine. Then I had to go to my hotel room for the middle part of the day, before coming back to campus to speak to a large group of students. While I was in my room, everything was fine. I had my lucky jersey on, all that superstitious stuff. End of the 7th, and I have to be back on campus. I get there a little early, and am in the student lounge watching. Then, the Bartman incident happened. Then, the Alex Gonzalez incident (which did affect the game as well, of course). Then the floodgates opened. Then I had to go speak to that large group of students. I was in a weird mix of trying not to cry and trying not to throw up at the same time. Needless to say, I didn't get the job.

As mentioned on the show, I knew it was over as soon as it happened. Should the Cubs have been able to move on and close out the game and the series? Yes. But when you're conditioned to think of yourselves as "The Lovable Losers", the sense of "Oh no. There it goes" was immediate. I tried to be positive about Game 7, but I knew they were going to lose it. I sat in the bathtub drinking Scotch for about two hours after that. I'm 37 years old, so I've really only had them break my heart twice (1984 and 2003), but I've already had enough for one lifetime. As Wrigley mentioned, being a Cubs fan is an exercise in pain.

So, if you hate the Cubs and/or their fans, that's fine, but the truth of the matter is is that you have no frame of reference, and you have no idea what it's like. Bottom line: Did Bartman lose the game, and did he deserve the treatment he received? Not at all. Was it the turning point that caused the collapse? Definitely. Should there have been more about the Cubs over the years and the reason why the team and the fans were/are under so much pressure, and less about the Red Sox and preachers saying "3 to oh"? Absoultely.

Haters feel free to flame away.

 

[Greco]

I loved it when Alou said the stadium got so quiet after the "incident" that all you could hear was the crack of the bat every time the Marlins got another hit. Eight runs? Eight? ####### awesome.

 

[Greco]

And Bernie Mac sings "root, root, root for the Champions, the Champions, the Champions!"

 

[Sarnoff]

Shocked Bartman never legally changed his name (as far as we know). How does he apply for a job in Chicago? As soon as you see the resume, what does he think most employers do with it? Said he might not be able to use a credit card. Sucks if he's still going through personal grief, but, as they said he's pretty unrecognizable unless he's in a cubs hat, walkman, and green turtleneck, having the name "Bartman" would be the only way to link the guy today to what happened then.