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***Chargers at DaRaiders*** (+3) 48.5u (2 Viewers)

AAABatteries said:
I really don’t understand the point you guys are making with the TO.  He took it after letting the clock run down and the Raiders still ran it.  There was no difference except they didn’t stop the run.
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It let's the other coach know you are still trying to win the game.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Honestly don’t think it moved the needle. Raiders were gonna kick the FG regardless. I don’t believe they let a division rival in for one, but mainly KC has owned them, so they were choosing their opponent. 
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Come on. Some things don’t have to be debated. 

"Yeah it definitely did. Obviously" -Derek Carr to Michele Tafoya on whether Staley's timeout shifted the strategy

 
My son is a Steelers fan.  I was about to have a 15 year old sleep in our room so I could keep an eye on him all night.  He was freaking the heck out from the 4/21 TD through OT.  He aged like 20 years in 30 minutes.

 
Guys you don’t have to be argumentative on everything. The Raiders obviously changed course after the timeout and their QB admitted  it! It was insanely dumb, period. 

 
Capella said:
Come on. Some things don’t have to be debated. 

"Yeah it definitely did. Obviously" -Derek Carr to Michele Tafoya on whether Staley's timeout shifted the strategy
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:shrug:  

players say a lot of things. I don’t think the Raiders wanted to play the Chiefs. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Honestly don’t think it moved the needle. Raiders were gonna kick the FG regardless. I don’t believe they let a division rival in for one, but mainly KC has owned them, so they were choosing their opponent. 
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The issue is that the Raiders weren't in good field goal range (57 yards) and didn't really seem to be in a hurry even with time running out. Calling timeout refocused them to actually... y'know, get serious about running a play.

I mean, Chargers weren't getting the ball back and the D didn't need a breather or anything.

 
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Cobbler1 said:
Guys he called TO with just a few seconds left on the play clock right? It wasn’t to save time and try to win if that was the case. It was to set the defense. Which didn’t work either of course!
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I appreciate this post. Makes sense. 
 

Just seemed very much like in the moment the raiders were content to run it out. 

 
AAABatteries said:
I really don’t understand the point you guys are making with the TO.  He took it after letting the clock run down and the Raiders still ran it.  There was no difference except they didn’t stop the run.
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Exactly.  It changed nothing. They waited til the game clock got under 40 seconds so if the Raiders wanted to take a knee they could. They set up to try and defend 3rd down and still failed. That run was coming whether they took the TO or not.  That last run they gave up led to the attempt, shorter less chance of block.  There's no way if they stuff that run the Raiders try a 56 yard FG or whatever it was at that lower trajectory whether or not that TO was ever called.

 
Capella said:
Come on. Some things don’t have to be debated. 

"Yeah it definitely did. Obviously" -Derek Carr to Michele Tafoya on whether Staley's timeout shifted the strategy
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Do you really think that if they didn’t call a TO, ran the play and ended up in the same spot that they wouldn’t have kicked the FG?  They ran it basically up the middle - Chargers just couldn’t stop it.

 
AAABatteries said:
Well, so far no one has explained why it was dumb, so there’s that.
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It allowed the Raiders to call a play differently. They were always running before the timeout. Calling the timeout, and suddenly you open up the possibility of a pass. Chargers may not have stopped them anyway, but they practically made it impossible by calling timeout. 

 
Capella said:
lol ok 
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I just heard the Carr line. He was talking about being up 15 & how things change and blah blah blah. Dude is running on pure adrenaline & you’re taking his response out of context. Carr also said they were going to go for It anyway.  

 
The Frankman said:
The issue is that the Raiders weren't in good field goal range (57 yards) and didn't really seem to be in a hurry even with time running out. Calling timeout refocused them to actually... y'know, get serious about running a play.
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The play clock was running down and they were literally about to run a play when he called the TO  :shrug:

 
AAABatteries said:
Do you really think that if they didn’t call a TO, ran the play and ended up in the same spot that they wouldn’t have kicked the FG?  They ran it basically up the middle - Chargers just couldn’t stop it.
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Lol right. It changed the strategy so much so you called a super conservative play that happened to work and then you kicked a fg out of spite? It’d be dumber than any TO to let something like that shift your strategy. 

 
AAABatteries said:
Do you really think that if they didn’t call a TO, ran the play and ended up in the same spot that they wouldn’t have kicked the FG?  They ran it basically up the middle - Chargers just couldn’t stop it.
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Exactly. They’re not going to run the clock out when it’s a no-lose scenario. Make the FG, you get Bengals instead of Chiefs, who’ve completely owned them twice this year. Miss the FG, you get the chiefs. 

I can’t see any reason they don’t try the FG.

 
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travdogg said:
It allowed the Raiders to call a play differently. They were always running before the timeout. Calling the timeout, and suddenly you open up the possibility of a pass. Chargers may not have stopped them anyway, but they practically made it impossible by calling timeout. 
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I really don't think it truly opened up the pass.  Now the Chargers DC may have thought it did, but passing the ball is the only way the Raiders weren't in the playoffs.  That ball was always going to be handed off.  If they thought differently, then that is a legit criticism.

 
travdogg said:
It allowed the Raiders to call a play differently. They were always running before the timeout. Calling the timeout, and suddenly you open up the possibility of a pass. Chargers may not have stopped them anyway, but they practically made it impossible by calling timeout. 
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That’s a massive stretch.

 
Cobbler1 said:
Lol right. It changed the strategy so much so you called a super conservative play that happened to work and then you kicked a fg out of spite? It’d be dumber than any TO to let something like that shift your strategy. 
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It’s not “out of spite”. It’s out of strategy. 

the Raiders had a “choose your own adventure” book & opted for the Bengals instead of the Chiefs. This ain’t rocket science. 

 
As far as I can tell, the reason the TO was bad is because we have a bunch of mind readers here who knew exactly what the Raiders were about to call before the TO, and it was completely different from what they did call, which was ... a run.

 
The Frankman said:
The issue is that the Raiders weren't in good field goal range (57 yards) and didn't really seem to be in a hurry even with time running out. Calling timeout refocused them to actually... y'know, get serious about running a play.

I mean, Chargers weren't getting the ball back and the D didn't need a breather or anything.
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This is what I saw. There's a good point to be made that there wasn't a ton of time on the play clock, and the Raiders were likely running up the gut again. But by taking it Raiders had more time to come up with the perfect play, and they did.

Timeouts on defense typically help the offense more. You take timeouts on defense to buy clock time, not "reset your defense" when every single person in the stadium and at home watching KNEW it was gonna be a running play.

It was a dumb call, period....but probably not an all time dumb call. Going for it on fourth down from your 18 when you havent been all that great running the ball  OTOH was an all time dumb call

 
Capella said:
Come on. Some things don’t have to be debated. 

"Yeah it definitely did. Obviously" -Derek Carr to Michele Tafoya on whether Staley's timeout shifted the strategy
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Right after that he said they were never playing for the tie. 
 

so which quote are we gonna believe?

 
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Capella said:
Come on. Some things don’t have to be debated. 

"Yeah it definitely did. Obviously" -Derek Carr to Michele Tafoya on whether Staley's timeout shifted the strategy
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"I don't think that means what you think that means"   [/Inigo Montoya]

The Raiders were not in a kneel formation. They were running a play out of shotgun before the timeout. After the timeout they ran a play from under center. The change in strategy was they changed their play call, not whether they were going to go for a tie.

If we want to say since the play they changed to succeeded and got in better FG range, it was a failed timeout. But we don't know the play they were in first wasn't going to go for even more yards. We can only speculate.

Yeah, worrying about the timeout is overblown. Didn't impact the game in a way we can say for sure.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
It’s not “out of spite”. It’s out of strategy. 

the Raiders had a “choose your own adventure” book & opted for the Bengals instead of the Chiefs. This ain’t rocket science. 
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Yeah - no knock on Burrows and the Bengals but you have to assume Raiders didn’t want any part of the Chiefs.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Exactly. They’re not going to run the clock out when it’s a no-lose scenario. Make the FG, you get Bengals instead of Chiefs, who’ve completely owned them twice this year. Miss the FG, you get the chiefs. 

I can’t see any reason they don’t try the FG.
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Blocked FG return is a lose scenario. Just saying.

 
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