Charitable Work and how it relates to God / Religion if at all (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

Wanted to get some feedback and opinion here.

Saw this article the other day and thought it was awesome and interesting. 

It's an Athiest group in Austin working together helping Homeless Folks. I don't know anymore than what I'm reading in the article but apparently it's a big project and they've been doing it for 8 years. That's awesome. 

My question - There is sometimes a religious component of charity. A church operates a soup kitchen or synagogue does a shelter or mosque organizes a food bank. That kind of thing. Most religions have some component of caring for others, especially those in need.

Others like this group in Austin, obviously don't have a religious component. Groups like the Peace Corps don't either (or at least I don't think they do.)

For the non religious groups doing charitable stuff (and there are a lot), what do you think is the motivation? I'd love to hear from you if you've personally done this type of stuff. But even if you haven't, if you have an opinion on it, I'd love to hear.

And this isn't any right or wrong answer. I'm only asking for opinions on it. Thanks.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Helping those who are less fortunate than you

 

[Joe Bryant]

To add and be more clear. 

What is the motivation? 

I'm asking as charitable work has become something I'm thinking more of. And rounding up people to help is part of the process. What I'm trying to get a good handle on, is why people want to do stuff like this.

For religious folks, one can point to a verse in their holy book that says "do this stuff". 

For non religious folks, there isn't a "command" or instruction.

But for religious and non religious alike, I'm trying to dig into more of the motivation.

Pride so I can feel good about myself? Guilt that I have more than the homeless guy and don't feel like I deserve it? Or a host of other motivations. 

Thanks.

 

[hagmania]

This feels like bait.

 

[mr. furley]

Helping those who are less fortunate than you

/thread

 

[Rick James]

For myself as a Christian, I donate to charities and help others because it's the Christ-like thing to do, but also because it helps scratch that itch of having a higher calling in life. Atheists surely disagree with me on the first part, but I'd bet a lot of them are with me on the second. I get so bogged down in the daily 9-5... go to work, make money, come home, cook dinner, watch the kids, etc...I'm constantly asking myself "is this really all that I'm living for?". 

So I do charity work because I want that to be one of the things that defines me. 

 

[Limp Ditka]

I do all of my charitable deeds in spite of god.

 

[Tiger Fan]

To add and be more clear. 

What is the motivation? 

I'm asking as charitable work has become something I'm thinking more of. And rounding up people to help is part of the process. What I'm trying to get a good handle on, is why people want to do stuff like this.

For religious folks, one can point to a verse in their holy book that says "do this stuff". 

For non religious folks, there isn't a "command" or instruction.

But for religious and non religious alike, I'm trying to dig into more of the motivation.

Pride so I can feel good about myself? Guilt that I have more than the homeless guy and don't feel like I deserve it? Or a host of other motivations. 

Thanks.

For what it's worth, there's an inherent "selfishness" in that it feels good to help people.  I'd imagine for some it's b/c "What God/Jesus/whoever" says they should do, for others it may just feel like the "right thing to do".  

I tend to focus on charitable causes that are close to me.  Friends who have kids who have illnesses or who work for certain charities.  I also like to use them as teaching points to my children, who are lucky to be "normal" to love and care for others.  Sometime it's a "heart walk" or attending a fundraiser....other times, it's a monetary donation.  

While I'm not a religious guy anymore, I do send my kids to Catholic school (better academics/environment than public schools)....and while there are a bunch of things I don't agree with, I do like that they have a focus on helping others (and I'm not saying this doesn't exist non-religious schools)

 

[The Tick]

Seriously???  You don't think you can be a decent person and actually want help others if you don't love God.  It's times like these religious people really worry me...

 

[Joe Bryant]

Seriously???  You don't think you can be a decent person and actually want help others if you don't love God.  It's times like these religious people really worry me...

Hi The Tick,

I'm saying the opposite of that.

I'm going to guess the Austin Athiest group would say they don't love God. But obviously they're helping others.

I'm asking about motivation outside of a religious reason. Does that make sense?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do all of my charitable deeds in spite of god.

Thanks. Can you elaborate?

 

[belljr]

You can only be a good caring person if you believe in God?

 

[Joe Bryant]

You can only be a good caring person if you believe in God?

Of course you can be a good caring person not believing in God. Clearly the example of the Austin group shows that. As does a zillion things you see everyday.

I'm asking about motivation for doing good things and trying to dig deeper than just the surface. 

 

[The Tick]

Hi The Tick,

Actually saying the opposite of that. I'm going to guess the Austin Athiest group would say they don't love God. But obviously they're helping others.

I'm asking about motivation outside of a religious reason. Does that make sense?

It seems pretty clear to me the motivation is that they are decent people that have either skills or means and would like to help others that are less fortunate. I don't do anywhere near as much as I should, but I do try to help out certain causes when I can, it's just compassion, and I think most people have it to some degree regardless of religious affiliation.

 

[Mookie]

Helping others who are less fortunate makes you thankful for what you have.  More generally, helping others regardless of need makes you feel good and helps to restore faith in humanity among others. It's about being a decent human being and treating each other well.  

 

[Bonzai]

Helping others can be a source of meaning.  Having meaning is part of a good life.  This seems obvious, so not sure what you're getting at...

 

[rockaction]

I think that they self-identify as atheist should lead one to sort of accept the premise of the OP. Traditionally, charitable works were done by religious organizations, but then again, so much of life in America was publicly religious that it sort of begged the question about the impetus behind the charitable works. 

Apparently, this group self-identifies as atheist to let people know that despite the traditional scope of philanthropy being religious, that atheists and agnostics are just as capable of organized charitable works and care, something I've personally never really doubted. 

 

[matuski]

Wanted to get some feedback and opinion here.

Saw this article the other day and thought it was awesome and interesting. 

It's an Athiest group in Austin working together helping Homeless Folks. I don't know anymore than what I'm reading in the article but apparently it's a big project and they've been doing it for 8 years. That's awesome. 

My question - There is sometimes a religious component of charity. A church operates a soup kitchen or synagogue does a shelter or mosque organizes a food bank. That kind of thing. Most religions have some component of caring for others, especially those in need.

Others like this group in Austin, obviously don't have a religious component. Groups like the Peace Corps don't either (or at least I don't think they do.)

For the non religious groups doing charitable stuff (and there are a lot), what do you think is the motivation? I'd love to hear from you if you've personally done this type of stuff. But even if you haven't, if you have an opinion on it, I'd love to hear.

And this isn't any right or wrong answer. I'm only asking for opinions on it. Thanks.

I actually worked with people through my job to have a "drive" for donations to this group.. I did not know the name of the organization when I was doing it, only that we were gathering random items (water, blankets, towels, toothbrushes, etc, etc) to be given to homeless folks.  I would have been less likely to contribute if it had been about atheism rather than the cause.

You focus on the people or cause you are helping.  

The only time I get turned off by group's "charity" is when the focus is on the group rather than the mission... "look at me" stuff.  Otherwise, who cares as long as the effort is genuine.

 

[JShare87]

For me personally, I think it’s a perspective thing. I always try to put myself in other people’s shoes. Understanding that others are struggling and having empathy for those people is the motivation in my opinion. I always think, if I was in a person’s situation that may be bleak, I hope others would try and help me. I don’t think it’s a religion thing, just a human thing. We all have the capabilities of being good people, some choose to act on it.

 

[Da Guru]

The things I do in Detroit with my wife is only because there are so many people in need.  When I give time on a Saturday morning once or twice a month it has nothing to do with God or church.  The reward for me is not spiritual but gratitude from the individuals  that you can help in a small way.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Thanks. Can you elaborate?

If someone believes in a god / higher power, I have a hard time seeing how they believe that the higher power is not complicit in what wrongs there are in the world and perfectly capable of remedying them.

For a Christianity take, See Book Of Job

 

[Juxtatarot]

Hi The Tick,

I'm saying the opposite of that.

I'm going to guess the Austin Athiest group would say they don't love God. But obviously they're helping others.

I'm asking about motivation outside of a religious reason. Does that make sense?

It feels good to help others.  If one is an atheist and doesn't believe in a creator, the reason why it feels good is likely evolutionary as helping others can aid in the survival of the species.  

 

[Nipsey]

You're saying as a religious person your sole motivation for being charitable is the Bible?

 

[Nipsey]

You're saying as a religious person you have something to gain by being charitable because if you follow what The Bible says you'll be eternally rewarded. So because atheists don't believe in God there's no reward to gain so you're wondering why they would engage in charitable actions? Do I read you right?

 

[Joe Bryant]

You're saying as a religious person your sole motivation for being charitable is the Bible?

Hi @Nipsey  No, I'm saying religious people can point to a verse in their holy book that says something like "take care of the poor" or something like that. For those folks, there is a clear "do this" type thing. For the tons of people that don't have a religious connection, there isn't a clear instruction. And obviously tons of non religious people do charitable things. So I was asking about their motivation.

For myself, I do know that I have to constantly check myself that pride or selfishness isn't getting in the way. I have a good friend that gave me good advice years ago when he said, "would you do this if nobody ever knew you did it?". That's a pretty good ego check for me.

 

[Nipsey]

Hi @Nipsey  No, I'm saying religious people can point to a verse in their holy book that says something like "take care of the poor" or something like that. For those folks, there is a clear "do this" type thing.

What is your motivation for doing what The Bible says to do?

 

[Bull Dozier]

Just to answer the basic question, I think there are two parts to the answer.  One, as Tiger Fan already said, it feels good. I have done quite a bit of different types of volunteering in my day.  I've done some mandatory "volunteering" in schools where you have to work a concession stand for a tournament or something like that.  I've tutored in classrooms.  I've coached.  I've served on boards of, and ran youth sports organizations.  I've gone to Feed my Starving Children (and similar meal prep groups) with different groups.  The outcome for just about every one of these activities is the good feeling of spending your time doing something "worthwhile" and a benefit to others.  You can get into a whole debate about how this may be religious, but as an agnostic, I just do it because it feels good, is an enjoyable way to spend free time, and leave it at that.

The second motivation is the feeling of responsibility.  Some people are just better off than others, and have more ability to make a difference than others.  The sports groups in my areas are made up of a lot of less fortunate families.  We have a large population of kids on free and reduced lunch thanks to low incomes, single family homes, etc.  Those parents can't always (or aren't willing to) volunteer as much as I am able.  If i have the free time, and ability, I'm going to do a little extra to make sure the kids have what they need to participate, whether they come from an advantaged home or not.  I don't know if that sense of responsibility was taught to me as a kid from my parents, or just something I've realized/learned as a parent myself, but after being a parent for 16+ years it is just ingrained in me at this point.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Religions and Gods exist to explain the unexplainable - not to help the less fortunate.

Deciding to help your neighbor does not depend on your religion, if any - it presumably feels like the right thing to do to many people who understand that we are all in this together.  You don't need a god, or a promise of an afterlife, to see that the world is a better place when you lift everyone up.

 

[Bonzai]

Hi @Nipsey  No, I'm saying religious people can point to a verse in their holy book that says something like "take care of the poor" or something like that. For those folks, there is a clear "do this" type thing. For the tons of people that don't have a religious connection, there isn't a clear instruction. And obviously tons of non religious people do charitable things. So I was asking about their motivation.

For myself, I do know that I have to constantly check myself that pride or selfishness isn't getting in the way. I have a good friend that gave me good advice years ago when he said, "would you do this if nobody ever knew you did it?". That's a pretty good ego check for me.

A world in which none of our choices could be recognized or appreciated by others sounds like a meaningless existence.  

 

[Nipsey]

For myself, I do know that I have to constantly check myself that pride or selfishness isn't getting in the way. I have a good friend that gave me good advice years ago when he said, "would you do this if nobody ever knew you did it?". That's a pretty good ego check for me.

What does the bold refer to? A charitable act? A little confused by this.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Altruism is its own reward.  Try some and find out just how true that is.

 

[Mr.Pack]

For me personally, I think it’s a perspective thing. I always try to put myself in other people’s shoes. Understanding that others are struggling and having empathy for those people is the motivation in my opinion. I always think, if I was in a person’s situation that may be bleak, I hope others would try and help me. I don’t think it’s a religion thing, just a human thing. We all have the capabilities of being good people, some choose to act on it.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Me, I'm selfish and self-centered.  My motive for altruistic acts is sort of messed up, but the rewards are there whether my heart is pure or not.  I selfishly want to hoard the good feelings therefore I do apparently charitable acts which are not at all altruistic, they are selfish.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Or maybe I am not as bad a person as I like to think, though the oddsmakers are pretty clear that the smart money is on me being a ####. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

What is your motivation for doing what The Bible says to do?

Part of the "following Christ" thing is following the instructions he left in the bible. One of the things that frustrate me about modern day politics / Christianity is Jesus talked a ton about helping the poor. Yet we don't seem to do all that much.

And certainly, there are benefits one sees in things like it just "feels good" to help someone. I think for me too, there feels like there's some "justice" involved. Like how did I get dealt a hand that put me in such a better financial position than someone else. Maybe "owing" isn't the right word, but I feel a sense of obligation to give something back to others that didn't get the same hand dealt I did. 

It's a complicated thing when you get past the surface I think. That's why I'm asking as I'm working through some of it myself. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Blessed are the boatmakers ...

 

[Joe Bryant]

What does the bold refer to? A charitable act? A little confused by this.

Yes. A charitable act. Like "would you go feed the homeless folks if nobody knew you did it". For me, that checks the prideful thing of "Look at me. I'm a good person because I did this" type thing.  It's something I talk to our people about that help me. It's kind of a natural thing these days for young folks especially to do the "let's take a selfie here as we're helping serve food". While that can have some value in raising awareness and such, I know myself and how prideful I can be and for me, I have to watch that it's not a "hope other people think highly of me as I do this charity work". So asking "would you do this charitable thing if nobody knew you did it?" is sort of a good test. 

 

[Limp Ditka]

Part of the "following Christ" thing is following the instructions he left in the bible. One of the things that frustrate me about modern day politics / Christianity is Jesus talked a ton about helping the poor. Yet we don't seem to do all that much.

And certainly, there are benefits one sees in things like it just "feels good" to help someone. I think for me too, there feels like there's some "justice" involved. Like how did I get dealt a hand that put me in such a better financial position than someone else. Maybe "owing" isn't the right word, but I feel a sense of obligation to give something back to others that didn't get the same hand dealt I did. 

It's a complicated thing when you get past the surface I think. That's why I'm asking as I'm working through some of it myself. 

With all due respect, Jesus left the what in where?

 

[McGarnicle]

I've personally become much more tolerant and charitable as I've evolved from Christianity to Atheism. I've never felt more strongly about basic human rights and equality, nor more motivated to help those in need.

 

[Joe Bryant]

With all due respect, Jesus left the what what in where?

Hi LD,

I mean what Jesus said in the Bible. Things like this. http://www.borgenmagazine.com/9-quotes-from-jesus-on-why-we-must-help-the-poor/

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've personally become much more tolerant and charitable as I've evolved from Christianity to Atheism. I've never felt more strongly about basic human rights and equality, nor more motivated to help those in need.

Thank you @McGarnicle   Can you elaborate there? I know it's tough (at least it is for me) to pin down things exactly but can you define why you feel more strongly? 

 

[Bonzai]

Me, I'm selfish and self-centered.  My motive for altruistic acts is sort of messed up, but the rewards are there whether my heart is pure or not.  I selfishly want to hoard the good feelings therefore I do apparently charitable acts..

My guess is that when it comes down to it, the good feelings you get from altruistic acts are not really what you're chasing.  Gonna get weird, but hear me out:  Imagine you could be put in a simulation where you could collect all the good feelings possible.  Once you entered, you would believe all of your "good feelings" were earned and based in reality.  Would you enter?  Most say no--even if we were fooled once entering the simulation, we know now that any benefits from entering the simulation would be false/meaningless.  The "good feelings" we get from our choices are only part of the equation--we need authentic evaluation of our choices from others to charge them with meaning.  That's where real fulfillment comes from.

 

[Nipsey]

Yes. A charitable act. Like "would you go feed the homeless folks if nobody knew you did it". For me, that checks the prideful thing of "Look at me. I'm a good person because I did this" type thing.  It's something I talk to our people about that help me. It's kind of a natural thing these days for young folks especially to do the "let's take a selfie here as we're helping serve food". While that can have some value in raising awareness and such, I know myself and how prideful I can be and for me, I have to watch that it's not a "hope other people think highly of me as I do this charity work". So asking "would you do this charitable thing if nobody knew you did it?" is sort of a good test. 

The homeless people would know you fed them. Confusing thread.

 

[shuke]

To add and be more clear. 

What is the motivation? 

I'm asking as charitable work has become something I'm thinking more of. And rounding up people to help is part of the process. What I'm trying to get a good handle on, is why people want to do stuff like this.

For religious folks, one can point to a verse in their holy book that says "do this stuff". 

For non religious folks, there isn't a "command" or instruction.

But for religious and non religious alike, I'm trying to dig into more of the motivation.

Pride so I can feel good about myself? Guilt that I have more than the homeless guy and don't feel like I deserve it? Or a host of other motivations. 

Thanks.

Joe,

Tiger Fan answered right before you.  The motivation is to help others.  The fact that you need further clarification makes it seem that you would only do it because God wants you to.  

 

[Nipsey]

Part of the "following Christ" thing is following the instructions he left in the bible.

For me the whole thing comes down to what is your reason for "following Christ". I mean like deep down. Is that just not an answerable question?

 

[Joe Bryant]

The homeless people would know you fed them. Confusing thread.

I'm sorry. I see what you mean.

I mean if anyone else knew besides the people you were helping.

For some people, it's a thing where they hope their friends back in their neighborhood knew they were working at the soup kitchen downtown to help folks. Where they get "credit" among their own friends for helping the homeless. 

Now where it might come into play with what you were thinking is if one were to make an anonymous donation or something. That would be another case. Would you donate a big sum of money and not let anyone know who it was from compared to do I get credit for making a big donation. That kind of thing.

 

[northern exposure]

A world in which none of our choices could be recognized or appreciated by others sounds like a meaningless existence.  

That is taking things to an extreme. When I read "would you do this charitable thing if nobody knew you did it?", I immediately thought of people that donate to charities, hospitals, etc. Some receive recognition by having their name on a list of people that made donations, others have wings of hospitals named after them and yet others donate anonymously. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

For me the whole thing comes down to what is your reason for "following Christ". I mean like deep down. Is that just not an answerable question?

For sure. Following Christ would be a reconciliation with God that Christ provides. Not to get all Sunday School, but the cliff notes version of the bible is God created us, we rebelled and went our own way, God sent Jesus as a way to bridge the divide from us to God. 

 

[Joe Bryant]

The "good feelings" we get from our choices are only part of the equation--we need authentic evaluation of our choices from others to charge them with meaning.  That's where real fulfillment comes from.




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Thanks @Bonzai   That gets into another area too. I think there can be value with no evaluation of the choice. It's like leaving a gift for someone and you'll never see them open it and they'll never know it was from you. 

Certainly, it's more "fun" to see them enjoy the gift. But there's value beyond just that I think. But it's interesting. 

 

[Godsbrother]

I do all of my charitable deeds in spite of god.

Seriously a lot of the charities I give to come as a result of a hurricane, earthquake, etc.