Christians And Mocking - How To Handle? (1 Viewer)

[Joe Bryant]

This might be a bad idea but I had this discussion with some friends today and wondered if people here had thoughts.


Thought this was interesting.

You've probably seen the Olympic opening ceremony stuff. DaVinci's Last Supper painting with costumes and other things. Pale Horse and Golden Calf.

I think we're at our best if we can. Christians can be thick-skinned. Like Americans having the right to burn the US Flag, we usually take mockery and shots like this and roll on.

Some religions want to kill anyone that mocks their God.

Here's an interesting article on it. https://www.christianpost.com/news/...last-supper-debauchery-at-paris-olympics.html


I do wonder what our attitude should be.


I opened the Footballguys Daily Email Update last night with the subject line of "Let's Go USA"


And opened with:

"Welcome In and I hope you're weekend's rolling along well. I watched more Water Polo today than I have in my lifetime. Go USA.

"You can enjoy the Olympics while we have the Fantasy Football info you need to know. We've got Drew Davenport's latest in the Salary Cap Domination series, plus everything else we did this week.

"And of course, our Sigmund Bloom has the News and Notes you need.

"Let's Go.

J"

A reader replied:

"Mocked my Jesus, I am not watching. I’m sorry for our athletes but I stand with God!"

I replied back to him:

"Hi ********,

"I follow Jesus, too, and I also thought the opening ceremony production was disappointing.

"Of course, that was completely separate from our athletes and the years they've trained to be there.

"I do wonder if there's value to modeling an attitude of Jesus when He said "Forgive them, Father. They know not what they do." It's a challenge. But I think as Christians, we have to accept there will be mocking and ridicule. That's actually pretty light compared to the persecution Jesus said we'd endure. And certainly today, Christians in some parts of the world are experiencing actual persecution.

"But I totally get not watching. As I said, that's the most water polo I've seen in my life. And I don't have an interest in many of the events.

"Either way, thanks for being part of Footballguys and I hope you have an awesome season.

J"

 

[Insomniac]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

 

[nightmare]

Leadership by example. I stand firm in my beliefs, Respect whatever yours are and thats it.

What is the "challenge"?

 

[Willie Neslon]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Yes, it was based on The Feast Of Dionysus. There have been many instances in recent pop culture where The Last Supper has been copied (The Simpsons, The Sopranos, etc) and nobody cared. Instead they chose this Olympic opening ceremony, where they weren't even referencing The Last Supper, to express offense and outrage. That says a lot and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Grahamburn]

Good to see Harrison Butker being quoted as a voice of reason in the linked article. That should tell you all you need to know.

I don’t believe they were mocking anything. Simply promoting progressiveness toward inclusion of all people regardless of beliefs or orientation.

 

[Ilov80s]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Yeah seems like those who were upset by it may have rushed in head first. A good lesson for them and us all.

 

[Chemical X]

in today’s world, if you are part of the offended police, you may as well fetal position on the bathroom floor. everything is done today to garner reactions, outrage, likes and clicks. i may not agree, but i haven’t the energy to get upset any longer.

 

[Ilov80s]

in today’s world, if you are part of the offended police, you may as well fetal position on the bathroom floor. everything is done today to garner reactions, outrage, likes and clicks. i may not agree, but i haven’t the energy to get upset any longer.

There does seem to be a large cross over of people who are both easily offended and annoyed when other people are offended. It’s likely a small but lot portion but gosh are they annoying.

 

[-fish-]

It's more fake outrage. Help educate your misinformed brothers in Christ, and encourage them to do their own research rather than listening to sources who are just seeking clicks and ratings. If you don't want to watch something, don't watch it.

The opening ceremonies have nothing to do with the events. It's not like the athletes produced them.

 

[McBokonon]

large cross

I see what you did there.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Yes, it was based on The Feast Of Dionysus. There have been many instances in recent pop culture where The Last Supper has been copied (The Simpsons, The Sopranos, etc) and nobody cared. Instead they chose this Olympic opening ceremony, where they weren't even referencing The Last Supper, to express offense and outrage. That says a lot and I'll leave it at that.

That 70's Show

"Why are you all sitting on the same side of the table?"

 

[BlackCrowes]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Also according to the guy who…ya know…created it

 

[El Floppo]

If it had been all "normal" white folk, would that have been mocking too?

 

[Mitchie]

Does it really matter if some people are a little offended? If that's the worst of it, ya'all are making out a lot better than a lot of other minority religions, races, etc.

 

[bigbottom]

This might be a bad idea but I had this discussion with some friends today and wondered if people here had thoughts.


Thought this was interesting.

You've probably seen the Olympic opening ceremony stuff. DaVinci's Last Supper painting with costumes and other things. Pale Horse and Golden Calf.

I think we're at our best if we can. Christians can be thick-skinned. Like Americans having the right to burn the US Flag, we usually take mockery and shots like this and roll on.

Some religions want to kill anyone that mocks their God.

Here's an interesting article on it. https://www.christianpost.com/news/...last-supper-debauchery-at-paris-olympics.html


I do wonder what our attitude should be.


I opened the Footballguys Daily Email Update last night with the subject line of "Let's Go USA"


And opened with:

"Welcome In and I hope you're weekend's rolling along well. I watched more Water Polo today than I have in my lifetime. Go USA.

"You can enjoy the Olympics while we have the Fantasy Football info you need to know. We've got Drew Davenport's latest in the Salary Cap Domination series, plus everything else we did this week.

"And of course, our Sigmund Bloom has the News and Notes you need.

"Let's Go.

J"

A reader replied:

"Mocked my Jesus, I am not watching. I’m sorry for our athletes but I stand with God!"

I replied back to him:

"Hi ********,

"I follow Jesus, too, and I also thought the opening ceremony production was disappointing.

"Of course, that was completely separate from our athletes and the years they've trained to be there.

"I do wonder if there's value to modeling an attitude of Jesus when He said "Forgive them, Father. They know not what they do." It's a challenge. But I think as Christians, we have to accept there will be mocking and ridicule. That's actually pretty light compared to the persecution Jesus said we'd endure. And certainly today, Christians in some parts of the world are experiencing actual persecution.

"But I totally get not watching. As I said, that's the most water polo I've seen in my life. And I don't have an interest in many of the events.

"Either way, thanks for being part of Footballguys and I hope you have an awesome season.

J"

It's a challenge. Still not sure exactly where I land on it.

I really like the substance and spirit of your reply. But I’m also not sure that they were mocking Jesus or that there was a reason to be disappointed, much less outraged.

 

[General Malaise]

I've got a friend on FB who is calling for God to bring famine, war and disease because of it. Seems a tad dramatic.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Understanding the queer Last Supper reference in the Opening Ceremonies

The Last Supper was the last painting completed by Leonardo da Vinci in Italy before he left for France. He died in France and is buried there, by his choice.

There are several reasons why he left his homeland permanently, not the least of which include difficult Italian politics, rumors of his homosexuality, and other restrictions imposed by the Catholic Church on his work. In France, he was widely beloved, fully supported by King Francis I, and lived out his remaining years doing whatever he wanted.

So when the French re-imagine the Last Supper (the painting, not the actual event) with a group of queers, this is not primarily intended to be a dig at Christianity (although I can imagine a very French shrug at the Christian outrage this morning).

Instead, this reference communicates a layered commentary about France’s cultural history, its respect for art, its strong secularism, and French laissez-faire attitudes toward sexuality and creative expression.

It’s a limited view of the painting to think of it as “belonging” to Christianity, rather than primarily as a Renaissance masterpiece by a brilliant (likely homosexual) artist, philosopher, and inventor, whose genius may have never been fully appreciated had he not relocated to a country with more progressive cultural values.

"La Cène" (the last supper), "La scène" (the stage) and "La Seine" (the river that goes through Paris) are all pronounced the exact same way in French.

So this was "La Cène sur la scène sur la Seine" (The Last Supper on the stage on the Seine.)

 

[Mitchie]

Understanding the queer Last Supper reference in the Opening Ceremonies

The Last Supper was the last painting completed by Leonardo da Vinci in Italy before he left for France. He died in France and is buried there, by his choice.

There are several reasons why he left his homeland permanently, not the least of which include difficult Italian politics, rumors of his homosexuality, and other restrictions imposed by the Catholic Church on his work. In France, he was widely beloved, fully supported by King Francis I, and lived out his remaining years doing whatever he wanted.

So when the French re-imagine the Last Supper (the painting, not the actual event) with a group of queers, this is not primarily intended to be a dig at Christianity (although I can imagine a very French shrug at the Christian outrage this morning).

Instead, this reference communicates a layered commentary about France’s cultural history, its respect for art, its strong secularism, and French laissez-faire attitudes toward sexuality and creative expression.

It’s a limited view of the painting to think of it as “belonging” to Christianity, rather than primarily as a Renaissance masterpiece by a brilliant (likely homosexual) artist, philosopher, and inventor, whose genius may have never been fully appreciated had he not relocated to a country with more progressive cultural values.

"La Cène" (the last supper), "La scène" (the stage) and "La Seine" (the river that goes through Paris) are all pronounced the exact same way in French.

So this was "La Cène sur la scène sur la Seine" (The Last Supper on the stage on the Seine.)

This is interesting, but it does not appear to be based on the last supper

Thomas Jolly, the artistic director behind the flamboyant opening ceremony, said the scene had not been inspired by "The Last Supper" and depicted a pagan feast linked to the gods of Olympus.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/paris-2024-apologises-any-offence-caused-by-last-supper-sketch-2024-07-28/

 

[BobbyLayne]

I do wonder what our attitude should be.

Was Da Vinci ever known to be a professing Christian? AFAIK, I don’t think so. Certainly no one thinks about Jesus when his name is brought up.

It’s a great work of art, but that painting literally has nothing to do with the church, following Jesus, or our daily lives.

Why would we, as Jesus followers, care in the least? Do you regularly expect non-believers to live in accordance with scripture? I certainly don’t.

Whether it was mocking the Last Upper or inspired by the Feast of Dionysus is irrelevant. I really don’t understand believers who would look at culture & think it’s appropriate to judge if it was God-honoring or not. We don’t live in a theocracy. Christendom is no longer normative.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and replies.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I've got a friend on FB who is calling for God to bring famine, war and disease because of it. Seems a tad dramatic.

All you had to say was "..on Facebook..."

 

[IvanKaramazov]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

 

[Mitchie]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

 

[Psychopav]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Yesterday my church had a cookout in Prospect Park (Brooklyn’s slightly smaller version of Central Park.) We had about 80 people there, maybe 30-35 kids. After we ate we split up into 6 teams for a some silly “Olympics” - the 9 events were things like sack relay race, sponge water race, 3-legged race, you get the idea.

As we were setting up for the bbq portion, a group of 7 or 8 trans folks setup next to us. They were all dressed in outrageously provocative glam couture, and they brought their own portable stripper pole. That was a first.

For the most part, they kept to themselves and vice versa. At one point a couple of toddler / kindergarten age girls were curious about the pole, so their dad wandered over & engaged in a conversation. The girls played on the pole for awhile & then came back (they were literally 20 feet from our group.)

I noticed while we were participating in the events in the meadow 50 feet down a hill from the cookout area one of our pastors & his wife went over to have a friendly conversation. It’s NYC, nothing surprises anyone who lives here. You should accept people where they are at in their journey and get to know them. You’ll never reach anyone unless you lead with love.

Love God, love people. This stuff isn’t that hard.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

 

[bigbottom]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

Do you think an artistic interpretation of the Last Supper (along with the Mona Lisa, the Scream and other paintings) is necessarily or obviously an act of “mocking Jesus”?

 

[bigbottom]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

Was this the group in the library?

 

[FreeBaGeL]

This is the side angle of the supposed "Last Supper" thing during the opening ceremony.

It wasn't even a table. It was a fashion show runway, lined with people on both sides, with models walking down the runway. This image wasn't something that had to be dug for, it was literally the next cut by the camera during the live broadcast. Yes, in the first camera angle I can see how people thought it kinda made the runway look like a table and you could sort of relate it to the painting (even though it's the totally wrong number of people) but that was obviously a coincidence and when the camera cut to the other angle and you could see that it was a fashion show runway with models and people lining both sides of it, it became extremely obvious. The response was 100% intentional manufactured outrage.

 

[Psychopav]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

Was this the group in the library?

That's where they started, yes. They ended in a bedroom (dorm room) kissing and embracing each other, and the viewer was pushed out as the door closed on the scene.

 

[Psychopav]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

But he said it was unintentional. If you can't take the creator at his word, what's the point? If it were a reference to the Last Supper he could have simply said so, or said nothing.

 

[the moops]

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper.

Except for the fact that he said he wasn't referencing The Last Supper

 

[bigbottom]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

Was this the group in the library?

That's where they started, yes. They ended in a bedroom (dorm room) kissing and embracing each other, and the viewer was pushed out as the door closed on the scene.

Ah okay. I think I had fallen asleep by that point.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

Do you think an artistic interpretation of the Last Supper (along with the Mona Lisa, the Scream and other paintings) is necessarily or obviously an act of “mocking Jesus”?

No, of course not.

Even if it was done with the explicit purpose of mockery, as this one was, I don't particularly care. People have been mocking Christianity my entire life. I have a thick skin about it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

But he said it was unintentional. If you can't take the creator at his word, what's the point? If it were a reference to the Last Supper he could have simply said so, or said nothing.

The dishonesty is the point.

Andres Serrano, to take one example, mocked Christianity like a man. I can respect that. I don't respect trolling and gaslighting.

 

[Mitchie]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

Not sure what the last sentence means but I'm just trying to understand why people are offended.

 

[Don Quixote]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

Yeah - In the Olympics thread, GM posted about people on his Facebook being offended about something during the ceremony and I replied thinking it was that. The Dionysus one did not even register as potentially offensive until someone further replied as the one that people are being offended by.

 

[AAABatteries]

I didn’t notice in realtime the image and no idea if that was the intent by the art director or whatever that person is called. It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other. But I would say, who cares. I can only guarantee you of one thing in this whole scenario. Jesus loves those drag queens.

 

[AAABatteries]

To answer Joe - I wish all people would spend more time doing good and less time being offended. Jesus didn’t have time to spend being offended:

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I didn’t notice in realtime the image and no idea if that was the intent by the art director or whatever that person is called. It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other. But I would say, who cares. I can only guarantee you of one thing in this whole scenario. Jesus loves those drag queens.

Once someone took the out of context screengrab and placed it next to the painting I can see how people fell for it.

But here is the actual video

You only have to watch about the first 15 seconds to see how the scene was obviously not the last supper and how it was intentionally taken out of context to appear that way by the extremist website. And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Part of the problem is that these extremist websites that were essentially tabloids in the past are now somehow considered legitimate sources. Another part of the problem is that certain legitimate sources did pick it up too, to at least placate the people whose outrage had been manufactured.

 

[AAABatteries]

I didn’t notice in realtime the image and no idea if that was the intent by the art director or whatever that person is called. It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other. But I would say, who cares. I can only guarantee you of one thing in this whole scenario. Jesus loves those drag queens.

Once someone took the out of context screengrab and placed it next to the painting I can see how people fell for it.

But here is the actual video

You only have to watch about the first 15 seconds to see how the scene was obviously not the last supper and how it was intentionally taken out of context to appear that way by the extremist website. And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Part of the problem is that these extremist websites that were essentially tabloids in the past are now somehow considered legitimate sources. Another part of the problem is that certain legitimate sources did pick it up too, to at least placate the people whose outrage had been manufactured.

That’s fair and if the person says it wasn’t I have no real reason to not believe them. But that wouldn’t change the discussion, IMO. Even if the person did exactly what some are accusing them of, so what?

I’d tell them what I tell my wife (jokingly with her) - Move Past It

 

[massraider]

It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other.

Had to be.

Couldn't be an homage to Feast of some Greek God of festivity and feasting and ritual and theater, or whatever totally logical story that guy came up with.

Pffff, why would there be a reference to Greek history? At the Olympics? Come on, how stupid do they think we are?

You only have to watch about the first 15 seconds to see how the scene was obviously not the last supper and how it was intentionally taken out of context to appear that way by the extremist website. And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Wait till they get to 38 seconds, and see some model strutting her stuff while wearing red/white/blue.

 

[El Floppo]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

Do you think an artistic interpretation of the Last Supper (along with the Mona Lisa, the Scream and other paintings) is necessarily or obviously an act of “mocking Jesus”?

No, of course not.

Even if it was done with the explicit purpose of mockery, as this one was, I don't particularly care. People have been mocking Christianity my entire life. I have a thick skin about it.

This is a serious question meant with respect... Could you please explain in what way this was mockery of Christianity?

 

[AAABatteries]

It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other.

Had to be.

Couldn't be an homage to Feast of some Greek God of festivity and feasting and ritual and theater, or whatever totally logical story that guy came up with.

Pffff, why would there be a reference to Greek history? At the Olympics? Come on, how stupid do they think we are?

You only have to watch about the first 15 seconds to see how the scene was obviously not the last supper and how it was intentionally taken out of context to appear that way by the extremist website. And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Wait till they get to 38 seconds, and see some model strutting her stuff while wearing red/white/blue.

Maybe - I don’t know. And don’t care. Whole thing is dumb to me but I’m bored on a Sunday afternoon.

I did enjoy some of those crazy outfits

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

difficult Italian politics

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I think the menage a trois was more offensive, frankly.

None of the show offended me, except for one small thing. When the characters in the paintings run off to watch the show, one of the paintings used is "The Death Of Marat" by David. David painted that picture of his friend. I'm not sure using a murder victim in that way was particularly nice.

Also applies to those who died on The Raft of the Medusa. Not really cool.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

According to Twitter it's actually based on the Feast of Dionysus not the Last Supper.

Stuff like this is why we can't have an honest conversation about anything anymore. I don't particularly care if somebody wants to do a satirical reenactment of the last supper, but the gaslighting is beneath us.

I think we are having an honest conversation. This is not something I know much about, why do you think this is definitely based on the Last Supper? I'm assuming you think the art director is not telling the truth so as not to offend as many people? And why does it matter if it's based on the Last Supper?

Obviously the artist was aware of the fact that he was referencing The Last Supper. Along with the Mona Lisa, The Scream, and a tiny number of other paintings, its a work that pretty much every single person living in the western hemisphere knows.

It matters because that's what we're talking about.

You're doing the "this isn't happening, and why do you even care?" meme in real time.

Do you think an artistic interpretation of the Last Supper (along with the Mona Lisa, the Scream and other paintings) is necessarily or obviously an act of “mocking Jesus”?

No, of course not.

Even if it was done with the explicit purpose of mockery, as this one was, I don't particularly care. People have been mocking Christianity my entire life. I have a thick skin about it.

This is a serious question meant with respect... Could you please explain in what way this was mockery of Christianity?

It's The Last Supper reenacted with drag queens. The artist believes that this sort of thing will get a rise out of Christians. The intent is to offend, and we should judge the message by its intent.

It's similar to Piss Christ by Serrano, which I mentioned earlier as a more muscular example of the same genre. It doesn't really matter why it's offensive, whether a person should be offended, or whether any particular person is actually offended. The intent of the piece is to offend. We can't really have an honest discussion without starting from that point.

 

[johnnycakes]

Just call me Mr. Charisma.... https://youtu.be/_RfUj09pWfM?si=aPdPEMmInzXfEvUp

 

[BassNBrew]

I didn’t notice in realtime the image and no idea if that was the intent by the art director or whatever that person is called. It definitely looked like it was an artistic interpretation of The Last Supper to me once you show them next to each other. But I would say, who cares. I can only guarantee you of one thing in this whole scenario. Jesus loves those drag queens.

Once someone took the out of context screengrab and placed it next to the painting I can see how people fell for it.

But here is the actual video

You only have to watch about the first 15 seconds to see how the scene was obviously not the last supper and how it was intentionally taken out of context to appear that way by the extremist website. And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.

Part of the problem is that these extremist websites that were essentially tabloids in the past are now somehow considered legitimate sources. Another part of the problem is that certain legitimate sources did pick it up too, to at least placate the people whose outrage had been manufactured.

Is this what Ivan is saying is a depiction of the last supper?

Nevermind, I just checked the FoxNews website and it's the lead story with 4 links. I understand why this is getting conversation now.

 

[the moops]

It's The Last Supper reenacted with drag queens.

How are you getting "Last Supper" from this?

opening ceremony fashion show.mp4

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