Deamon up there cited a day old twitter report by a Bronco's insider saying that Denver would not match. Deamon's point was "look how wrong this guy was" but his comment was "Yikes," I hate Twitter and didn't bother to check the link, meaning I FULLY BLAME DEAMON FOR THIS.
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CJ Anderson (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JetMaxx
- Start date
haha sorry. I just read that post last night and it sounded like CJ was going to be a dolphin. Was surprised when Denver matched today.
saintfool
Dead sexy
I don't think it has anything to do with "reservations" about Ajayi specifically. There is no quality depth at the position for MIA and they need to shore it up. The FA market for the position is pretty thin - in terms of quality - so targeting Anderson made sense. The only other legit potential starter among FA RBs is Alfred Morris maybe? Short of Elliott or Henry, I don't know if there is a rookie RB that has a huge edge over Ajayi from a talent standpoint.
Shutout
Footballguy
Yeah, for a team that has as many holes as they do, I don't think the Dolphins would be smart to go heavy investing in a RB.
Ajayi has a long-term concern but the talent is there. He showed it in college and he showed it when he played last year in Miami. They should look at Morris on the cheap or even Foster and between the committee, they will be better off, al things considered and they can use the high draft pick on something more needed. Miami SHOULD make a heavy investment in a lineman.
Fireinside
Footballguy
Last year Raiders were trying to get DeMarco Murray to play ahead of Latavius, that didn't work out and Latavius played the whole year.
Same thing can happen here. They just wanted Anderson, not because Ajayi is bad, but because coach really really likes Anderson.
Same thing can happen here. They just wanted Anderson, not because Ajayi is bad, but because coach really really likes Anderson.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Last year many in the fantasy community thought Demarco Murray was going to go the Raiders, just like this year many think that Ajayi is a viable starting RB. In both cases they are wrong.
Fireinside
Footballguy
So you're betting your house on it. I'm just saying that it could be possible, not saying it's going to happen.
tone1oc
Footballguy
See:
I'm being snarky here, there is certainly a non-zero chance Ajayi could be starter. He was banged up for most of last year, terrible prognosis for his knee injury, Gase has no investment in him, the team has only invested a 5th rounder and they stepped up in a big way to try and make him a backup already.
If Alfred Morris or Foster signed with Miami, they would be the starters. If they bring in one of the lesser options like say a James Starks it will be a nasty timeshare with Damien Williams as well, who I think doesn't get enough credit for how well he's played in limited situations. Williams is also more versatile than Ajayi.
spider321
Footballguy
Last season, a lot of people thought the Broncos would win the Super Bowl, and Cam Newton would be the MVP. They were right.tone1oc said:
This year, a lot of people think Jay Anayi is a viable starting RB. They are also right.
i like this game you made where you state that a=b and c=d, so e must be a unicorn.
Can we keep playing, please?!?!
tone1oc
Footballguy
The point you are making is exactly the same as the point I was making.. False equivalency.
The Raiders were never getting Demarco, and it has absolutely zero predictive value or relevance with the Dolphins and Ajayi.
Getting back on topic, Shutout has it right. There's a long term concern with Ajayi - but the Dolphins were also out there saying they viewed Ajayi as a 3-down/workhorse back less than a month ago... seems like smokescreen to me after they tried to get CJ Anderson.
Right now if I'm sitting on Ajayi or Langford, I'm selling after the CJ Anderson RFA contract fiasco. Their teams don't believe in them...
Right now if I'm sitting on Ajayi or Langford, I'm selling after the CJ Anderson RFA contract fiasco. Their teams don't believe in them...
tone1oc
Footballguy
Actually the topic is CJ Anderson
Maybe we should take it to the Ajayi thread. Miami announced Ajayi was a 3 down back days if not hours before they brought in CJA and offered him 18M. I agree with your analysis of Ajayi/Langford.
Fireinside
Footballguy
But when Dolphins never got C.J, it has a lot of predictive value and relevance with Ajayi...
only relevance is that there still is a chance that Ajayi will lead the Fins and that's all us fantasy players need.
tone1oc
Footballguy
Fireinside
Footballguy
Can't disagree with that, maybe I should too.
But as a owner of Jay, that chance is all I got- not selling him now.
tone1oc
Footballguy
This really will be my last Ajayi post in the CJA thread... I understand where you are coming from, if you believe Ajayi is viable I can't blame you for holding. If you can cash out a 1st round draft pick or solid vet and dont, I think you are on the wrong end of the risk/reward proposition. Good luck!
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Aznflyer14
Footballguy
Well, I got both RBs and no one is much happier than I am on Broncos' decision to match Dolphins' contract offer to CJ Anderson. Now I'm debating on whether to give up Ajay (with salary contract-friendly) and 2.02 to the RB-needy team for one of his two high first rounders (1.03 and 1.04) in 12 Teams PPR Dynasty league.
tone1oc
Footballguy
The Denver Post's Troy Renck still expects C.J. Anderson to be the lead back.
Denver re-signed Ronnie Hillman and spent a fourth-round pick on Devontae Booker, but Renck still expects Anderson "to receive the bulk of the carries." Not everyone agrees with that opinion, however. ESPN's Jeff Legwold has said on multiple occasions he expects Booker to push for carries, although it is possible those come at the expense of Hillman. Anderson has a ton of upside, but his usage remains a big concern.
Source: Denver Post
May 12 - 11:49 AM
Denver re-signed Ronnie Hillman and spent a fourth-round pick on Devontae Booker, but Renck still expects Anderson "to receive the bulk of the carries." Not everyone agrees with that opinion, however. ESPN's Jeff Legwold has said on multiple occasions he expects Booker to push for carries, although it is possible those come at the expense of Hillman. Anderson has a ton of upside, but his usage remains a big concern.
Source: Denver Post
May 12 - 11:49 AM
James Palmer
✔@JamesPalmerTV
Gary Kubiak believes C.J. Anderson is ready to be an every-down back and thinks his conditioning level is the best its been since he arrived
4:14 PM - 9 Jun 2016
✔@JamesPalmerTV
Gary Kubiak believes C.J. Anderson is ready to be an every-down back and thinks his conditioning level is the best its been since he arrived
4:14 PM - 9 Jun 2016
Fireinside
Footballguy
I can already feel the last years disappointment disappearing from my memories- will they come back and hunt me again this year, maybe in the form of Booker? I certainly hope not.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
https://twitter.com/CecilLammey/status/745299193229508608
Cecil Lammey @CecilLammey Jun 21
Cecil Lammey Retweeted Scott Barrett
This is going to be the true Gary Kubiak offense, and #Broncos may be most run-heavy team in the #NFLCecil Lammey added,
Scott Barrett @DudeFantasyBro
@CecilLammey Unless... You prob think they go much more run heavy this year, right?
Cecil Lammey @CecilLammey Jun 21
Cecil Lammey Retweeted Scott Barrett
This is going to be the true Gary Kubiak offense, and #Broncos may be most run-heavy team in the #NFLCecil Lammey added,
Scott Barrett @DudeFantasyBro
@CecilLammey Unless... You prob think they go much more run heavy this year, right?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
PFF has Anderson in a 50/50 time share with Booker, with neither of them startable. Seems like truly awful advice that ignores all the things we know today, but they're generally pretty smart guys over there.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
What things do we know today that PFF is ignoring?
As far as I can tell we don't know that much. The coaches don't know that much yet. We can speculate all day on that, but Ota's are not training camp, training camp is not preseason, preseason is not the regular season.
I could easily see the distribution of rushing attempts being a 50/50 split between Anderson and Booker. But I would not expect that split to occur on a game by game basis. That is not how Kubiak or Dennison like to use their RB however. They prefer to have one do it all RB and even when they didn't have a good player like Portis, it was more of a running back by competition than by committee. Each RB got their chance to be the main RB until they got hurt or proved ineffective, when that happens, they move on to the next RB.
I would expect Anderson to start as the primary ball carrier with Booker coming in on passing downs. This will last for the first half of the season, or at some point where Anderson wears down, then Booker takes over the featured RB role.
So that 50/50 split may see Anderson being useful for the first half of the season, then Booker being useful for the second half of it.
There is always the chance that Anderson plays very well early on and maintains his role as the starting RB all year. He has not had over 200 rushing attempts in a season yet in the NFL or college level however, that may be a trend which continues.
Booker is a very good RB and Anderson is going to need to play at a very high level to hold him off in my opinion. So if Anderson does keep the job through camp, preseason and into the season, he should be very productive in those early games.
I think it is a matter of time before Anderson either gets injured, becomes ineffective (perhaps due to injury limiting his level of play, like last season) or Booker just out plays him in practice to a point where they have to get him more involved.
I don't know any of this however. I am just guessing at what might happen based on the information I do have.
As far as I can tell we don't know that much. The coaches don't know that much yet. We can speculate all day on that, but Ota's are not training camp, training camp is not preseason, preseason is not the regular season.
I could easily see the distribution of rushing attempts being a 50/50 split between Anderson and Booker. But I would not expect that split to occur on a game by game basis. That is not how Kubiak or Dennison like to use their RB however. They prefer to have one do it all RB and even when they didn't have a good player like Portis, it was more of a running back by competition than by committee. Each RB got their chance to be the main RB until they got hurt or proved ineffective, when that happens, they move on to the next RB.
I would expect Anderson to start as the primary ball carrier with Booker coming in on passing downs. This will last for the first half of the season, or at some point where Anderson wears down, then Booker takes over the featured RB role.
So that 50/50 split may see Anderson being useful for the first half of the season, then Booker being useful for the second half of it.
There is always the chance that Anderson plays very well early on and maintains his role as the starting RB all year. He has not had over 200 rushing attempts in a season yet in the NFL or college level however, that may be a trend which continues.
Booker is a very good RB and Anderson is going to need to play at a very high level to hold him off in my opinion. So if Anderson does keep the job through camp, preseason and into the season, he should be very productive in those early games.
I think it is a matter of time before Anderson either gets injured, becomes ineffective (perhaps due to injury limiting his level of play, like last season) or Booker just out plays him in practice to a point where they have to get him more involved.
I don't know any of this however. I am just guessing at what might happen based on the information I do have.
bostonfred
Footballguy
There were 7 weeks last year where Anderson and hillman split carries 12/12, 8/7, 11/11, 7/7, 15/14, 9/9 and 15/15.
During a brief Anderson injury the splits were 7/19, 0/12 and 4/14.
The other weeks were 12/9, 11/7, 13/20, 14/19, 2/11, and 12/21.
That doesn't look like one lead back.
And while I agree the broncos seem to like booker, they just resigned hillman to a one year deal for 2 million. Not huge money, but I'm not so sure he gives up the third down/receiving role.
It's kind of a mess right now. That could present some opportunity but owners seem to think their guy is the best so it's tough to buy in. I'll pass for now.
During a brief Anderson injury the splits were 7/19, 0/12 and 4/14.
The other weeks were 12/9, 11/7, 13/20, 14/19, 2/11, and 12/21.
That doesn't look like one lead back.
And while I agree the broncos seem to like booker, they just resigned hillman to a one year deal for 2 million. Not huge money, but I'm not so sure he gives up the third down/receiving role.
It's kind of a mess right now. That could present some opportunity but owners seem to think their guy is the best so it's tough to buy in. I'll pass for now.
Chaka
Footballguy
NFL teams need two competent RBs so drafting the rookie is neither a surprise nor is it a referendum on Anderson. They matched the Dolphins offer which speaks to the fact that they like Anderson at least more than a little bit. I don't expect Anderson to get 70% of the touches but almost no RB does. I see Anderson being slated for the majority or RB touches, maybe 55% which would translate to 237 based on last season's output.
While I could see Denver being more run heavy this season, which would bode well for their RBs, I think it is likely that they don't sustain drives as well which would reduce the total play output and offset any uptick in the number of running plays called.
While I could see Denver being more run heavy this season, which would bode well for their RBs, I think it is likely that they don't sustain drives as well which would reduce the total play output and offset any uptick in the number of running plays called.
Is this actually true? The ff community is WAY off here in my opinion.
How do Kubiak rbs fare in terms of pass catching?
JoeSteeler
Footballguy
Nice link...thanks.
per MFL ADP, he is coming off the board at player #48 in ppr drafts. RB15 MFL ADP
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Not sure that's the word I would use for drafting a top 10 rb at rb18. Bargain, value, etc
MattFancy
Footballguy
Sure, it's a bit of a gamble. There's still question marks surrounding him. Getting him at RB18 is a value if you think he can revert back to the 2014 CJ Anderson. If he stays about where he was last season, then getting last year's RB31 at RB18 is not good value.
Anderson's first 8 games in 2015 were bad but seems mostly due to a lingering ankle injury, which is a valid concern/criticism looking forward. But after he healed (or learned how to play though the injury better) he was extremely effective and Denver's best offensive player most games. Denver's FO seems to agree given they gave him the large offseason contract. And to be frank, saying he's last year's RB31 ignores some not-so-subtle nuance in the statistics. Not sure what value framing the discussion in that context brings..
MattFancy
Footballguy
I think we're on the same page here. I like Anderson this year and think he is a good value pick in the 4th. Is he a gamble? Sure because his numbers weren't great last year. But he certainly has potential to pop into the Top 10 RBs.
I like Anderson, but does anyone find this a little concerning? http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/article.php?article=2016OLPreseasonRankings
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Gary Kubiak coaching history
His first OC job comes with the Broncos in 1995, This is when the Broncos started using Terrell Davis as their featured RB. Davis remains that until he is injured. Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson both get feature RB work after TD was injured. The Broncos transitioned to Clinton Portis after this who was their RB for two seasons before being traded. Droughn's and then Mike Anderson again were the featured RB following the Portis trade.
In Houston the first two seasons they mostly used an old Ron Dayne. In his third season they got Steve Slaton who became their featured RB. Slaton is injured the following year which causes the Texans to use 4 different RB. Arian Foster becomes their featured RB from 2010 to 2014.
When he has a RB capable of being the featured RB he lets that guy be that. When RB are injured and no one is seizing the job with above average play, then he keeps trying different RB and using role players more, but this is not how GK wants the running game to function. He is looking for one RB who can do it all and do it all consistently.
Neither of the RB were consistent enough last season, but when either had the hot hand, they got the ball near 20 times in the game.
Ronnie Hillman
Note games 6,7, 10, 12 and 13
CJ Anderson
Games 1, 11, 15 and all 3 playoff games Anderson had 18 or more opportunities.
While a lot of fuss has been made about the Broncos signing CJ Anderson to a new contract, people seem to be unaware of the fact that CJ Anderson was a restricted free agent, the Bronco's signed him to the lowest level for a RFA contract, only maintaining the right to match an offer made on the open market.
Frank Gore at 32 years old made 2 million a year more than what the Dolphins offered Anderson. Correction, they offered about the same money for Gore as the Dolphins offered Anderson.
The Broncos not wanting to only have Ronnie Hillman at RB for 2016 decided Anderson's deal was fair value and matched it.
His first OC job comes with the Broncos in 1995, This is when the Broncos started using Terrell Davis as their featured RB. Davis remains that until he is injured. Olandis Gary and Mike Anderson both get feature RB work after TD was injured. The Broncos transitioned to Clinton Portis after this who was their RB for two seasons before being traded. Droughn's and then Mike Anderson again were the featured RB following the Portis trade.
In Houston the first two seasons they mostly used an old Ron Dayne. In his third season they got Steve Slaton who became their featured RB. Slaton is injured the following year which causes the Texans to use 4 different RB. Arian Foster becomes their featured RB from 2010 to 2014.
When he has a RB capable of being the featured RB he lets that guy be that. When RB are injured and no one is seizing the job with above average play, then he keeps trying different RB and using role players more, but this is not how GK wants the running game to function. He is looking for one RB who can do it all and do it all consistently.
Neither of the RB were consistent enough last season, but when either had the hot hand, they got the ball near 20 times in the game.
Ronnie Hillman
Note games 6,7, 10, 12 and 13
CJ Anderson
Games 1, 11, 15 and all 3 playoff games Anderson had 18 or more opportunities.
While a lot of fuss has been made about the Broncos signing CJ Anderson to a new contract, people seem to be unaware of the fact that CJ Anderson was a restricted free agent, the Bronco's signed him to the lowest level for a RFA contract, only maintaining the right to match an offer made on the open market.
The Dolphin's who let Lamar Miller walk made an offer for CJ Anderson they likely hoped the Broncos wouldn't match. The Dolphins offered about 4 million/year to Anderson which is about 2 million a year less than what the Texans paid Miller and less money than Ivory got to sign with the Jaguars.
Frank Gore at 32 years old made
The Broncos not wanting to only have Ronnie Hillman at RB for 2016 decided Anderson's deal was fair value and matched it.
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So you think blocking won't be an issue or you think the line is better than advertised?
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Question: Was CJ Anderson completely healthy last year?
Answer>>>>>>
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/10/28/c-j-anderson-was-more-banged-up-than-originally-thought-earlier-in-season/36165/
October 28, 2015, 5:55 pm
C.J. Anderson was more banged up than originally thought earlier in season
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Early in the year when he was banged up to leading the league over the final month and post season when he blew up.
So the obvious question I ask is CJ Anderson healthy?
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/02/24/gary-kubiak-broncos-c-j-andersons-return-to-full-health-is-key/
Gary Kubiak: Broncos’ C.J. Anderson’s return to full health is key
... Getting Anderson back to full health after he suffered a toe and an ankle injury is key, Kubiak said. Anderson finished second on the team with 720 yards on 152 carries (4.7-yard average) with five touchdowns in 15 games (five starts).
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Early last year when he was still dealing with injuries he only averaged 2.7 yards per carry but wound up averaging 4.7 yards per carry so he tore it up down the stretch to improve his average.
Kubiak signed him to a big contract and said he's ready to be an 'every-down back'.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/8694/cj-anderson
Broncos coach Gary Kubiak said C.J. Anderson is "ready to be an every-down back."
Answer>>>>>>
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/10/28/c-j-anderson-was-more-banged-up-than-originally-thought-earlier-in-season/36165/
October 28, 2015, 5:55 pm
C.J. Anderson was more banged up than originally thought earlier in season
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early in the year when he was banged up to leading the league over the final month and post season when he blew up.
So the obvious question I ask is CJ Anderson healthy?
http://www.denverpost.com/2016/02/24/gary-kubiak-broncos-c-j-andersons-return-to-full-health-is-key/
Gary Kubiak: Broncos’ C.J. Anderson’s return to full health is key
... Getting Anderson back to full health after he suffered a toe and an ankle injury is key, Kubiak said. Anderson finished second on the team with 720 yards on 152 carries (4.7-yard average) with five touchdowns in 15 games (five starts).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Early last year when he was still dealing with injuries he only averaged 2.7 yards per carry but wound up averaging 4.7 yards per carry so he tore it up down the stretch to improve his average.
Kubiak signed him to a big contract and said he's ready to be an 'every-down back'.
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/8694/cj-anderson
Broncos coach Gary Kubiak said C.J. Anderson is "ready to be an every-down back."
Chaka
Footballguy
So... you're just not thinking about the o-line at all then. No wonder it isn't a concern for you.
Chaka
Footballguy
Didn't say that but the fact that FBG ranks them 30th or 31st or whatever in June doesn't hold a lot of value IMO.
At this point you rank the guys you like and don't like based on your perception of their talent. When your draft gets real close then you tweak your rankings based on how you perceive their supporting cast, S.O.S. etc.
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It wasn't just a simple rankings list. There were some words that you might find troubling.
higgins
Footballguy
Not a subscriber but could list the words they used? Just curious - also because the type of blockers used in the zone blocking scheme may not be blockers other schemes look for. It may be that the staff feels they have good fits and that year 2 of the scheme will allow for much improvement.
Chaka
Footballguy
Meh. I'm not downgrading Tom Brady, Russel Wilson and Dion Lewis because that same article ranks them 31st & 32nd worst offensive line. And if Thomas Rawls shows he's healthy during camp then I won't downgrade him either.
Oh, there wasn't like one ominous word. It basically just breaks down each position and mentions that Okung has only played 16 games once. It does leave the door open for some optimism, though. Just to be clear, I'm a CJA fan. I am just concerned with the OL. It's not all doom and gloom.
