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Classic Album Discussion Thread: The Kinks-Lola Versus Powerman and the Moneygoround, Pt. 1 (1 Viewer)

Doug B said:
The sax is already there in "Movin' Out", so it fits the E-Street's motif pretty well. Bruce would make that song his own with his delivery.

Didn't write them up, but I think Bruce could muster up more gravitas on the "serious" Joel tracks like "Allentown" and "Goodnight Saigon". I would also be interested in an acoustic Springsteen cover of "It's Still Rock & Roll to Me".

The two do have some stylistic overlap in their catalogs, though. For instance, "Hungry Heart" would've fit in perfectly as a track on Joel's An Innocent Man.
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Yeah Joel does lack gravitas, that is a great way to phrase it and it touches on what I said about his songs sounding like they belong on a stage in a musical. 

 
I debated whether or not to select a Billy Joel album for discussion here. I'm going to avoid it for now. I could change my mind later. 

I'm trying to stick to the "canon" of AOR and classic rock. There's a lot of performers that skirt the edges of this. At some point I might start separate threads to discuss some of them.

 
jamny said:
yeah, I was surprised to see it mentioned in this thread. But glad it was!
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Well here's the thing- you're not going to see a Metallica album mentioned here- or Anthrax, or Iron Maiden or Judas Priest (though the last two certainly come closer.)

But I think Sabbath is different. At least on MY  AOR stations in southern California back in the day, I DID hear Sabbath played, specifically the three big songs from this album. That's more than I ever heard from the other bands I mentioned (though Judas Priest had a pop song, "Living After Midnight", that did get some radio play from time to time.)

 
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timschochet said:
I debated whether or not to select a Billy Joel album for discussion here. I'm going to avoid it for now. I could change my mind later. 

I'm trying to stick to the "canon" of AOR and classic rock.
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Don't remember Joel's airplay on late-70s AOR stations. I do know that he was a staple artist of late 80s-early 90s CR stations down here. However, the most recent of his tracks they'd play is 1980's "Sometimes a Fantasy", and they avoided his adult-contemporary stuff (save "Piano Man" :shrug: ). But "Big Shot", "Movin' Out", "Only the Good Die Young", etc. were played often.

 
Doug B said:
Don't remember Joel's airplay on late-70s AOR stations. I do know that he was a staple artist of late 80s-early 90s CR stations down here. However, the most recent of his tracks they'd play is 1980's "Sometimes a Fantasy", and they avoided his adult-contemporary stuff (save "Piano Man" :shrug: ). But "Big Shot", "Movin' Out", "Only the Good Die Young", etc. were played often.
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So this might be the distinction that I was asked about earlier. I didn't understand that then, but you just made things more clear for me.

I agree. if I turned on a "classic rock" station in 1994 or so, I would hear not only Billy Joel's old hits, but songs from The Clash, The Police, Blondie, Sting, The Cars, The Pretenders, etc. etc. None of these artists would have been played on the more traditional AOR. So their albums won't be reviewed here, at least for now. Perhaps later on.

 
timschochet said:
So this might be the distinction that I was asked about earlier. I didn't understand that then, but you just made things more clear for me.

I agree. if I turned on a "classic rock" station in 1994 or so, I would hear not only Billy Joel's old hits, but songs from The Clash, The Police, Blondie, Sting, The Cars, The Pretenders, etc. etc. None of these artists would have been played on the more traditional AOR. So their albums won't be reviewed here, at least for now. Perhaps later on.
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Damn The Torpedoes falls into this, too. Petty got lumped into New Wave when he came out.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
Damn The Torpedoes falls into this, too. Petty got lumped into New Wave when he came out.
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I don't think it does. You're correct about his first album, possibly his 2nd. But by the time Damn The Torpedoes came out he was clearly classified as an AOR type rocker.

 
timschochet said:
I don't think it does. You're correct about his first album, possibly his 2nd. But by the time Damn The Torpedoes came out he was clearly classified as an AOR type rocker.
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He was marketed as New Wave, Tim. Retconning, sure - he wasn't. But I was there and he got played on the same channels as Talking Heads and their ilk - not the stations that played Boston.

 
Uruk-Hai said:
He was marketed as New Wave, Tim. Retconning, sure - he wasn't. But I was there and he got played on the same channels as Talking Heads and their ilk - not the stations that played Boston.
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I don't remember that in Los Angeles. But you could be right. I certainly never heard him on the New Wave station here (KROQ) but to be fair, I only started listening to that in 1980 or so. I clearly remember hearing Refugee, the year it came out, on KLOS, the same station that regularly played Boston and other AOR.

 
timschochet said:
I don't remember that in Los Angeles. But you could be right. I certainly never heard him on the New Wave station here (KROQ) but to be fair, I only started listening to that in 1980 or so. I clearly remember hearing Refugee, the year it came out, on KLOS, the same station that regularly played Boston and other AOR.
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TP was played on rock stations here in NC, and on stations that played new wave stuff.

 
Keep in mind that back then, categorization of artists was not up to a 500-station conglomerate but instead left to legions of individual DJs and station managers. Individual tastes and influences could mean that Tom Petty was "new wave" in Florida, mainline AOR in California, and a little of both in North Carolina.

When stuff like early Cars and Police broke out, these lines were probably even more blurred.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
As far as Mr. Joel goes, I thought he had a really nice run thru 52nd Street, some pretty good songs on some of those albums.
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I think The Stranger could warrant discussion if we’re going with top albums. Maybe not in an AOR context, but still...

 I’m not the biggest Billy fan, but that is one fine album.

 
Doug B said:
Keep in mind that back then, categorization of artists was not up to a 500-station conglomerate but instead left to legions of individual DJs and station managers. Individual tastes and influences could mean that Tom Petty was "new wave" in Florida, mainline AOR in California, and a little of both in North Carolina.

When stuff like early Cars and Police broke out, these lines were probably even more blurred.
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Yeah, I think you have to accept things at the edges like The Cars and Sabbath. I will tell you that in the 90s, Petty was a staple on 94.7 WCSX Classic Rock Detroit. He had at least 10 songs that got regular airplay. 

 
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Doug B said:
Pie is better than cake? Cake is better than pie? Nothing controversial about preferring one over the other here :shrug:  

Would be an interesting musical exercise for each of Joel and Springsteen to put out a tribute covers album of the other's material. Joel has a much nimbler voice than Springsteen, though, so many Joel tunes would need thoughtful down-tempo arrangements for Springsteen to credibly pull them off. Joel doing Springsteen's work straight, on the other hand, could sound fluffy and unsubstantial. Could envision a great Billy Joel cover of "Glory Days" with Joel's organ work stealing the show.
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The two of them doing Born to Run.

LINK

 
You know ... I don't even remember them having a dedicated "new wave" station growing up in New Orleans. Instead, your late 70s Blondie, Cars, Police, Talking Heads, etc. would get played on our local "hits" stations -- basically Top 40 stations. You might listen to our hits stations for an hour and hear "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough", "Heart of Glass", "My Best Friend's Girl", "Message in a Bottle", "You Dropped the Bomb On Me", "Pop Muzik", "Emotional Rescue", "Super Freak", etc.

We're only just kind of getting a similar sound back here now with a local 1980s station that sprung up 5 years ago (they actually go 1976-1990, but who's counting?).

 
Anarchy99 said:
The two of them doing Born to Run.

LINK
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How did I not know about this rendition? Got my listening material for my drive home.

Apparently, going by some of the suggested videos that popped up, the two appreciate each other's work even if they haven't collaborated very much.

 
Billboard started their mainstream rock top 60 chart in March 1981.

They're available on Billboard's website.  I know I'm kind of an elitist music :nerd: but there's some real crap on the first few months of the chart.  The songs are stylistically all over the map (albeit almost entirely Caucasian).  I doubt there were many radio playlists in 1981 based on this chart.

 
Eephus said:
Billboard started their mainstream rock top 60 chart in March 1981.

They're available on Billboard's website.  I know I'm kind of an elitist music :nerd: but there's some real crap on the first few months of the chart.  The songs are stylistically all over the map (albeit almost entirely Caucasian).  I doubt there were many radio playlists in 1981 based on this chart.
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That is a loaded top 10 IMO. 

I Can't Stand It by Clapton- solid song, not quite the level of his Cream days but it jams

While You See a Chance by Stevie Winwood- are you not a fan of Winwood? The guy is a musical savant. Great song.

Hold on Loosely by 38 Special-  yeah this song is kind of crap but in a very good way...also I would have bet my life that this was a 70s song

You Better... by the Who- not their best work but it's fine

Turn Me Loose by Loverboy: I never knew the name or artist behind this song, it is great in the way Eye of the Tiger is great. 

 
Ilov80s said:
That is a loaded top 10 IMO. 

I Can't Stand It by Clapton- solid song, not quite the level of his Cream days but it jams

While You See a Chance by Stevie Winwood- are you not a fan of Winwood? The guy is a musical savant. Great song.

Hold on Loosely by 38 Special-  yeah this song is kind of crap but in a very good way...also I would have bet my life that this was a 70s song

You Better... by the Who- not their best work but it's fine

Turn Me Loose by Loverboy: I never knew the name or artist behind this song, it is great in the way Eye of the Tiger is great. 
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 i was talking in more general terms.

You could definitely cherry pick an album's worth of good/great songs from any random week's chart if you wanted to make a "NOW That's What I Call Music 1981" compilation.  There's probably a higher percentage of dreck though.

 
Eephus said:
 i was talking in more general terms.

You could definitely cherry pick an album's worth of good/great songs from any random week's chart if you wanted to make a "NOW That's What I Call Music 1981" compilation.  There's probably a higher percentage of dreck though.
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Agreed, it was better than I thought given how awful charts usually are. A Winwood song at 2 is enough to cancel out 2 Rush songs and then some imo. 

 
Eephus said:
Billboard started their mainstream rock top 60 chart in March 1981.

They're available on Billboard's website.  I know I'm kind of an elitist music :nerd: but there's some real crap on the first few months of the chart.  The songs are stylistically all over the map (albeit almost entirely Caucasian).  I doubt there were many radio playlists in 1981 based on this chart.
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That list is essentially an advertisement for much of Day 1 of MTV in August later that year (exactly 37 years today, as it turns out). A few lesser known goodies in there like Donnie Iris’s “Ah! Leah!” and Manfred Mann’s “For You”

 
Ilov80s said:
Agreed, it was better than I thought given how awful charts usually are. A Winwood song at 2 is enough to cancel out 2 Rush songs and then some imo. 
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The Billboard charts on the web site run up to the end of 2017.  I guess I'm more out of touch with "mainstream rock" than I thought I was. :bag:

 
Eephus said:
The Billboard charts on the web site run up to the end of 2017.  I guess I'm more out of touch with "mainstream rock" than I thought I was. :bag:
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Oh god are those bad. What year is it? Godsmack? Breaking Benjamin? Foo Fighters and Three Days Grace?  That is not great. 

 
zamboni said:
That list is essentially an advertisement for much of Day 1 of MTV in August later that year (exactly 37 years today, as it turns out). A few lesser known goodies in there like Donnie Iris’s “Ah! Leah!” and Manfred Mann’s “For You”
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The latter isn't as good of a Springsteen cover as "Blinded by the Light"

 
zamboni said:
That list is essentially an advertisement for much of Day 1 of MTV in August later that year (exactly 37 years today, as it turns out). A few lesser known goodies in there like Donnie Iris’s “Ah! Leah!” and Manfred Mann’s “For You”
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Ohh so is that the official divide between classic rock and ______?  Before MTV and after MTV? 

 
Ilov80s said:
Ohh so is that the official divide between classic rock and ______?  Before MTV and after MTV? 
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I don’t think the demarcation line is that clear with the start of MTV, although the channel did take music in many directions - and largely away from the AOR scene that was omnipresent until then.

 
zamboni said:
I don’t think the demarcation line is that clear with the start of MTV, although the channel did take music in many directions - and largely away from the AOR scene that was omnipresent until then.
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Makes sense, it is a fuzzy line but that does seem to mark a new era of rock music. The AOR to the MTV

 
timschochet said:
So this might be the distinction that I was asked about earlier. I didn't understand that then, but you just made things more clear for me.

I agree. if I turned on a "classic rock" station in 1994 or so, I would hear not only Billy Joel's old hits, but songs from The Clash, The Police, Blondie, Sting, The Cars, The Pretenders, etc. etc. None of these artists would have been played on the more traditional AOR. So their albums won't be reviewed here, at least for now. Perhaps later on.
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Eh.. it's your thread. 

 
Getting back to Tim's latest classic rock album.....

Even though Paranoid does not feel like classic rock, I will happily play along with this one.  My mom bought this for me on 8 track when I was just a youngster.  This album and Kiss Destroyer were the albums that set me on the metal head path.  While one of the posters pointed out that side 1 is much better than side 2, every metal head should own this album no matter if they are 55 or 15.  War Pigs is my favorite track and I actually prefer Fairies Wear Boots over Iron Man.  While the whole band contributed to this iconic metal sound, I love Tony Iommi's riffs.  He is always in my list of top 10 guitar players and has written my favorite guitar riffs easily.  It is hard to believe this is from 1970 and still being copied. 

 
I remember buying Black Sabbaths 1st album.  I was 14 and I remember thinking wow what is this.Changed my whole outlook on rock for a little while.  Turned into a real metal head.  Three buddies and I went to the Lakeland Civic center to see a show we were on the floor right in front,  There was a bunch of people walking around in dark robes with inverted crosses.  In my drug altered mind I thought the Lord was going to send a lighting bolt down and get us all.  So I ended up going up into the seats I don't think that would have saved me though.

 
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DocHolliday said:
 While the whole band contributed to this iconic metal sound, I love Tony Iommi's riffs.  He is always in my list of top 10 guitar players and has written my favorite guitar riffs easily.  It is hard to believe this is from 1970 and still being copied. 
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His lesson to humanity has been cut parts of your fingers off and you, too, can become a legend.

 
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I am actually partial to the first Sabbath album over any other one they did, but Paranoid is the obvious classic.  It has three songs still played to death on classic rock radio (War Pigs, title track and Iron Man), two of their best songs (Hand of Doom and Fairies Wear Boots), and one of their coolest laid back songs ever (Planet Caravan).  Terrific record. 

 
I may hipple Springsteen a little later, but one of the reasons I left this site (there were several) for a few months was the old poll that Billy Joel leading Bruce Springsteen. I just couldn't be around you people.

 
timschochet said:
Bruce Springsteen- Born to Run (1975)
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Not a huge Springsteen fan but this album is pretty damn good.

He seems to have a very hardcore following, but I don't know many people who belong to it.  Still flummoxed that he has his own Sirius channel.

 
Ghost Rider said:
shuke said:
I love a lot of Petty tunes, but this is actually one thing that keeps me from listening to him too much.  At some point it all sounds the same. 
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I know what you mean. Gimme the best 25-30 Petty tunes and I am good. 
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Petty's consistency was one of his biggest virtues.  He and the Heartbreakers came out to LA as a fully formed monster and Petty never stopped recording and performing until his death.  Even when the Heartbreakers were on hiatus, he stayed active with solo projects, Mudcrutch and the Wilburys, 

The records had a consistent quality about them, they may not have reached the heights of his classics but they were never worse than very good.  A lot of his contemporaries gave up recording new material long ago or tried and failed to update their sound to keep up with the times but Petty was like a ballplayer who puts up a .300 average every year.

 
Ilov80s said:
Paging @rockaction  thoughts on the last couple albums? I am especially curious on your Bruce take and Sabbath take. 
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I'll have a write-up in the next few days. I'm sort of up #### right now.  

 
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I've never gotten the Boss as a superstar entity, but Born To Run is a great track and a good album, IMO. Teenage love juxtaposed against authority and societal and societal conditions was done much better by Romeo and Juliet and others. I don't get how great his lyrics are, I guess. But that's upon hearing his lyrics for the millionth time. I'm still pissed he tells the woman in Thunder Road she's not beautiful, but hey, she's all right. 

It's a Hold Steady trick, and it served them well, so why not its progenitor?  

But it's a good album. It tries to document America in all its ugliness and its longing. It's actually pretty damn good, the more I think about it.  

 
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