Cleveland school shooting (1 Viewer)

[wadegarrett]

At least 4 students hurt in shooting at Chardon High School, shooter still at large

Published: Monday, February 27, 2012, 8:18 AM Updated: Monday, February 27, 2012, 8:36 AM

CHARDON, Ohio -- At least four students have been injured in a shooting this morning at Chardon High School. The shooter has not been found.

Geauga County Sheriff's spokesman John Hiscox confirmed there had been a shooting in the school, but would give no details shortly after 8 this morning.

A local official confirmed the number of students. A local official said three boys and a girl were injured. Four ambulances, from Chardon, Kirtland, Burton and Chesterland, are waiting at the door of the high school at 8:15 a.m.

Little information has been made available. Chardon police and sheriff's officials said the school was on lockdown. Parents are crowding just off school grounds.

The shooting happened in the cafeteria, according to a waiting parent, Jessica Bryant, whose daughter, Allison, a freshman who had seen it and texted her.

A city official said they don't know where the shooter is, and parents were being told at 8:21 that it might not be safe to remain near the school. Maple Elementary school across the street was being evacuated.

Police are blocking streets near the school.

Link

 

[beer 30]

Played football against in HS and then with some of them in college. Chardon is the last place I'd figure something like this which means it's the perfect place for something like this. Never see it coming I guess, my thoughts and prayers go out to those affected.

 

[RBM]

Ah ####. Hate seeing these

 

[Angry Beavers]

Wife's cousins have kids in this district. Thankfully they are still in middle school. This is a sleepy little town about 30 minutes south of where we live. :shocked:

T&P

 

[RBM]

Saying 3 in critical and 1 is stable.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Reporting now that there was just 1 shooter and he's now in custody. Hopefully all the injured kids make it.

Such senseless stuff.

 

[RBM]

Cant even imagine what its like being a parent with a kid in that school right now....ugh

 

[Tecumseh]

Played football against in HS and then with some of them in college. Chardon is the last place I'd figure something like this which means it's the perfect place for something like this. Never see it coming I guess, my thoughts and prayers go out to those affected.

Me too. Weird.

 

[wadegarrett]

Reports saying kid tweeted last night he would bring gun to school today. No word yet on any fatalities.

 

[Wrigley]

Dad just told me "it's all the damn video games"

 

[Sam Quentin]

Dad just told me "it's all the damn video games"

culturally, our appetite for violence keeps increasing.Art imitating life? Chicken and egg? I don't know?are younger brains able to adequately process the graphic violence? Again, I don't know...

 

[B-Deep]

[udpated 10:34 a.m.] Law enforcement officials say they received reports that a teacher chased the shooter at Chardon High School out of the building.

 

[wadegarrett]

Some #chardon tweets...

RT @lauraejjohnston: Dad says his son's ear was grazed by a bullet or slightly burned by gunpowder in #Chardon High School shooting.

#Chardon event most possibly drug related according to students who knew victims and shooter.

#Chardon student told me her teacher put on bulletproof vest/grabbed a hammer and dragged a shot student into classroom until medics arrived

 

[NCCommish]

Dad just told me "it's all the damn video games"

culturally, our appetite for violence keeps increasing.Art imitating life? Chicken and egg? I don't know?are younger brains able to adequately process the graphic violence? Again, I don't know...

Literally millions of children play video games. If it was about that then one would expect a lot more of this. These things are done by kids with way bigger problems than video games.

 

[Clifford]

And yet we never, ever actually look into tighter gun control in this country. These could happen every day for a year and the discussion would never even take place. Instead we talk about drugs and video games.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Some #chardon tweets...

RT @lauraejjohnston: Dad says his son's ear was grazed by a bullet or slightly burned by gunpowder in #Chardon High School shooting.

#Chardon event most possibly drug related according to students who knew victims and shooter.

#Chardon student told me her teacher put on bulletproof vest/grabbed a hammer and dragged a shot student into classroom until medics arrived

I guess if you want to be a teacher today, a bullet-proof vest is almost a necessity as one of the things you purchase before going out into the world of education.In my day, there were no shootings. A badass brought a tiny little pocket knife or nunchucks to school.

 

[B-Deep]

They have drills, i forget what they are called, but lockdown drills in schools now. Practicing what to do if there's a dangerous person in the school

 

[Jules Winnfield]

They have drills, i forget what they are called, but lockdown drills in schools now. Practicing what to do if there's a dangerous person in the school

Do they still do tornado drills or is that a thing of the past and now they practice for shootings?

 

[B-Deep]

They have drills, i forget what they are called, but lockdown drills in schools now. Practicing what to do if there's a dangerous person in the school

Do they still do tornado drills or is that a thing of the past and now they practice for shootings?

Both!in the lockdown drill the teacher turns out all the lights and locks the door and the kids all hide behind a bookshelf or something so they cannot be seen from the hallway (if i recall correctly)they do it well, not in a way that seems to frighten them.

 

[I love my screen name]

Just saw on the local news that one of the victims has passed away.

T&P

 

[B-Deep]

They have drills, i forget what they are called, but lockdown drills in schools now. Practicing what to do if there's a dangerous person in the school

Do they still do tornado drills or is that a thing of the past and now they practice for shootings?

Both!in the lockdown drill the teacher turns out all the lights and locks the door and the kids all hide behind a bookshelf or something so they cannot be seen from the hallway (if i recall correctly)they do it well, not in a way that seems to frighten them.

hmmmseems some states require these lockdown drills by law

 

[DocHolliday]

They have drills, i forget what they are called, but lockdown drills in schools now. Practicing what to do if there's a dangerous person in the school

Do they still do tornado drills or is that a thing of the past and now they practice for shootings?

Both!in the lockdown drill the teacher turns out all the lights and locks the door and the kids all hide behind a bookshelf or something so they cannot be seen from the hallway (if i recall correctly)they do it well, not in a way that seems to frighten them.

Is there a way to lockdown the school in way that students are not frightened when shooters are taking out their friends?School shootings are horrific. The world gets crazier by the minute.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

If this was drug related, as a tweet suggested, how about we blame the war on drugs?

 

[Sam Quentin]

I say we blame every policy that I personally oppose and credit every policy I personally favor for limiting the damage...

 

[Clifford]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.

We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.

We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.

Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.

Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.

Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.

The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.

This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.

And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

 

[Marvin]

Some #chardon tweets...

RT @lauraejjohnston: Dad says his son's ear was grazed by a bullet or slightly burned by gunpowder in #Chardon High School shooting.

#Chardon event most possibly drug related according to students who knew victims and shooter.

#Chardon student told me her teacher put on bulletproof vest/grabbed a hammer and dragged a shot student into classroom until medics arrived

I guess if you want to be a teacher today, a bullet-proof vest is almost a necessity as one of the things you purchase before going out into the world of education.

No it isn't.

 

[timschochet]

Reports saying kid tweeted last night he would bring gun to school today

I don't want to blame anyone in this situation without knowing all of the facts, but if this report is true, it seems like there could have been an opportunity to prevent this. Specifically, did any of his friends or acquaintances read this tweet? If they did, why didn't they contact the authorities immediately?

 

[B-Deep]

Reports saying kid tweeted last night he would bring gun to school today

I don't want to blame anyone in this situation without knowing all of the facts, but if this report is true, it seems like there could have been an opportunity to prevent this. Specifically, did any of his friends or acquaintances read this tweet? If they did, why didn't they contact the authorities immediately?

my guess is people blew it off as a bad jokewho knows how often that happens

 

[timschochet]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that everything you wrote here is true. Do you have some sort of viable solution that you believe would prevent these sorts of incidents in the future?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Some #chardon tweets...

RT @lauraejjohnston: Dad says his son's ear was grazed by a bullet or slightly burned by gunpowder in #Chardon High School shooting.

#Chardon event most possibly drug related according to students who knew victims and shooter.

#Chardon student told me her teacher put on bulletproof vest/grabbed a hammer and dragged a shot student into classroom until medics arrived

I guess if you want to be a teacher today, a bullet-proof vest is almost a necessity as one of the things you purchase before going out into the world of education.

No it isn't.

Yeah, that was a tongue in cheek response.Sorry it was above you

 

[Jules Winnfield]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that everything you wrote here is true. Do you have some sort of viable solution that you believe would prevent these sorts of incidents in the future?

And what about all the kids that don't solve problems with guns?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that everything you wrote here is true. Do you have some sort of viable solution that you believe would prevent these sorts of incidents in the future?

0 shot clips?

 

[GoFishTN]

And yet we never, ever actually look into tighter gun control in this country. These could happen every day for a year and the discussion would never even take place. Instead we talk about drugs and video games.

It really doesn't seem to work.

If you look at the firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, District of Columbia comes out top - with 16 firearms murders per 100,000 man, woman and child in the state.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

 

[Clifford]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that everything you wrote here is true. Do you have some sort of viable solution that you believe would prevent these sorts of incidents in the future?

Changing what values we teach to our children by actually changing what values we project as society. IOW, no.Chris Rock has a solution though: charge $100 per bullet.Point of this post was to point out the hypocrisy of trying to isolate one small segment of our media culture (video games) when all aspects of our culture glamorize guns and those who use them (especially liberally) as problem solving methods.If you want #### like this to stop, then when Pamela Gorman or Dale Peterson or some other redneck talks about "taking out" their opponents while firing a gun, they have to be so universally panned by our society that they would literally be shamed out of their political aspirations forever. Characters like Rooster Cogburn would no longer be viewed as heroic but simple-minded and hopelessly barbaric. Military service would no longer be upheld as the most noble sacrifice one could make: charity work would be.In short, you would need a societal shift so massive that an movie idea like Terminator or this Navy Seal movie would be laughed out of every single producer's office because they would know that Americans simply would never pay for something so mindlessly violent. So yeah, at best 150-250 years in the making.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that everything you wrote here is true. Do you have some sort of viable solution that you believe would prevent these sorts of incidents in the future?

Changing what values we teach to our children by actually changing what values we project as society. IOW, no.Chris Rock has a solution though: charge $100 per bullet.Point of this post was to point out the hypocrisy of trying to isolate one small segment of our media culture (video games) when all aspects of our culture glamorize guns and those who use them (especially liberally) as problem solving methods.If you want #### like this to stop, then when Pamela Gorman or Dale Peterson or some other redneck talks about "taking out" their opponents while firing a gun, they have to be so universally panned by our society that they would literally be shamed out of their political aspirations forever. Characters like Rooster Cogburn would no longer be viewed as heroic but simple-minded and hopelessly barbaric. Military service would no longer be upheld as the most noble sacrifice one could make: charity work would be.In short, you would need a societal shift so massive that an movie idea like Terminator or this Navy Seal movie would be laughed out of every single producer's office because they would know that Americans simply would never pay for something so mindlessly violent. So yeah, at best 150-250 years in the making.

1) $100 per bullet and shotgun shells or simply bullets2) Your movie statement about Terminator or Navy Seals...would your statement include war, historical, or futuristic films either? Star Wars could never get made because lasers count like bullets?

 

[Clifford]

Yeah, umm, didn't really mean to talk specifically about movies. Was speaking in general terms about what our society values.

 

[Jobber]

Since gun bans just won't ever happen, the easier route to take is for absolutely CRUSHING penalties for parents or guardians of minors who commit these acts. Or more specifically, whomever allowed their firearm to be used by the perpetrator.

 

[Sam Quentin]

Yeah, umm, didn't really mean to talk specifically about movies. Was speaking in general terms about what our society values.

The problem is tat, sometimes, violence actually does solve problems. I'm not sure how you get around that.

 

[timschochet]

Clifford, it's not like I don't sympathize with what you're trying to say. But the reason that Rooster Cogburn is a hero is because he makes money being a hero. Films like that are made because that's what people want to see.

Do you remember about 20 years ago when the film "Boys In The Hood" came out? The release of that film coincided somewhat with the Rodney King Riots, and I remember at the time there were cast members speaking out and complaining that there were too many gun stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods, and asking why? The implication was that this was some sort of societal plot. Well, I'm a commercial real estate agent, and they never bothered to ask this question to anyone in my profession. The reason there are gun stores and liquor stores in many black neighborhoods is because they make good money there. Their sales are high in those areas. That's it; end of explanation.

We cannot change the way people think. Our television and movie culture reflects what the public wants; it's not set. When it' is set, it's on accident. Nobody has ever found a way to shape public opinion.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Military service would no longer be upheld as the most noble sacrifice one could make: charity work would be.

You lose me here. When the righteous stand aside, evil WILL rise up and enslave others. I don't want to necessarily claim that we're always the righteous, but SOMEBODY needs to stand up against those that would do evil. And those that do so, should be praised for doing it.

 

[Clifford]

It's simple: you treat violent solutions to problems as a universal failing of the societal construct and in no way do you glorify them or set them up as somehow indicative of having courage or being more manly than those who seek non-violent means to solve their problems.

Surely this did not elude you as a possibility? I assume I'm not really telling anyone anything new about our society.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

It's simple: you treat violent solutions to problems as a universal failing of the societal construct and in no way do you glorify them or set them up as somehow indicative of having courage or being more manly than those who seek non-violent means to solve their problems.Surely this did not elude you as a possibility? I assume I'm not really telling anyone anything new about our society.

Seek out non-violent means to stop Hitler. Go ahead.Show me the non-violent means to stop those that seek to eradicate anyone else they deem inferior. Turning the other cheek will only gets you another smacked jawAnd hell yes I hold those who came before me who served in our military and those that now served their country as courageous.Please feel free to go and preach the word of non-violence to radicals in other countries who seek out to kill those who do not share their beliefs.

 

[Joseph]

You know, screw even opening the gun control can of worms. I have my opinion and I'll keep it to myself.We're talking about video game influence? What about reality's influence.We have an entire culture of the gun in this country. We have made the most extreme form of violence part of our national character.Look at our movie heroes. From John Rambo to John Wayne they all shot first and asked questions later. We synonimize violence with heroism. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our politicians. Sassy Sarah putting crosshairs on the districts of her political enemies. Look at political ads: so many not only tout gun ownership but use violent, gun-centered language when talking about their opponents. Pamela Gorman, Dale Peterson, Jim Folsom Jr. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.Look at our history and mythology: we are taught from childhood to honor the tough, grizzled frontiersman who settled America and staked their claims. In almost all cases we are taught to admire people who settled disputes with guns and took by force land from others. We are taught to honor the cowboy who kills his enemies in the street, who takes the law into his own hands to solve problems. What does this do to kids? Well, it makes them think that guns are an appropriate way to solve problems with others.The use of violence, especially with guns, is engrained in us from 360 degrees as a problem-solving method. It is echoed from our entertainment, history, and the supposed leaders of our country.This is why we have supposedly normal senior citizens gleefully cheering bombing another nation and many of our leaders automatically default to violence and war as the cure-all solution to any international conflict.And when a kid at the end of his rope one day wakes up and decides to solve his problems with guns and violence and we sit here and wonder why? Seriously?

Do you really think that this kid decided to "solve his problems with guns and violence" because he believes this is an acceptable problem solving method in our society? This argument is always made, and IMO its borderline delusional. This kid didn't go to school with a gun thinking that "I'm sure it'll be ok that I'm shooting up my classmates/school", he went there probably knowing that he was going to be caught and spend a long time in jail (or be killed in the process). I find it highly unlikely that anyone can think that gun violence is an acceptable option. They do it anyway though because they have other mental issues/think they won't get caught or just plain don't care.

 

[Sam Quentin]

It's simple: you treat violent solutions to problems as a universal failing of the societal construct and in no way do you glorify them or set them up as somehow indicative of having courage or being more manly than those who seek non-violent means to solve their problems.Surely this did not elude you as a possibility? I assume I'm not really telling anyone anything new about our society.

OKyou are walking doen the street and you are confronted by a person who is the victim of a universal failing of the societal construct. Just as they are about to inflict grave and possibly fatal bodily harm upon you, a bystander jumps in and stops them. Unfortunately due to the short time window in which they have to act, they have to resort to a violent act. They do this at great risk to themselves, but they succeed in preventing harm to you. Would you consider that act heroic?

 

[Mr. Chumley]

Since gun bans just won't ever happen, the easier route to take is for absolutely CRUSHING penalties for parents or guardians of minors who commit these acts. Or more specifically, whomever allowed their firearm to be used by the perpetrator.

This story is heart breaking and as a parent this is just one of the many things I fear for my kids. I'm afraid there are no easy answers here. I don't believe a disturbed kid like this that is willing to kill countless others and possibly himself really cares what happens to parents or gaurdians. Is a kid or anyone else willing to walk int a school and kill other childern - classmates - and himself going to respect a law that says you can't own a gun? What if the shooter stole the gun from someone else? Are you still going to lock away his parents who had no idea what he was planning or that he had stolen a gun?

 

[B-Deep]

Since gun bans just won't ever happen, the easier route to take is for absolutely CRUSHING penalties for parents or guardians of minors who commit these acts. Or more specifically, whomever allowed their firearm to be used by the perpetrator.

This story is heart breaking and as a parent this is just one of the many things I fear for my kids. I'm afraid there are no easy answers here. I don't believe a disturbed kid like this that is willing to kill countless others and possibly himself really cares what happens to parents or gaurdians. Is a kid or anyone else willing to walk int a school and kill other childern - classmates - and himself going to respect a law that says you can't own a gun? What if the shooter stole the gun from someone else? Are you still going to lock away his parents who had no idea what he was planning or that he had stolen a gun?

I think the idea here is if the gun was where he could steal it they failedyou may agree or not

 

[Clifford]

Clifford, it's not like I don't sympathize with what you're trying to say. But the reason that Rooster Cogburn is a hero is because he makes money being a hero. Films like that are made because that's what people want to see. Do you remember about 20 years ago when the film "Boys In The Hood" came out? The release of that film coincided somewhat with the Rodney King Riots, and I remember at the time there were cast members speaking out and complaining that there were too many gun stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods, and asking why? The implication was that this was some sort of societal plot. Well, I'm a commercial real estate agent, and they never bothered to ask this question to anyone in my profession. The reason there are gun stores and liquor stores in many black neighborhoods is because they make good money there. Their sales are high in those areas. That's it; end of explanation.We cannot change the way people think. Our television and movie culture reflects what the public wants; it's not set. When it' is set, it's on accident. Nobody has ever found a way to shape public opinion.

I know this. My point is that talking about video games without examining the other 10,000 ways our society actively promotes guns and violence to kids is ridiculous. I do not think we can wave a magic wand and make this happen. However, we do know that our ultra-violent culture is unique in the first world, and we do know that other countries with similar socio-economic conditions and similar demographics have managed to achieve far lower violent crime rates. And we do know that most of the countries that do have far greater gun restrictions than we do.Yet we sit here, with kids killing kids with guns, and wonder what the hell we can do about this. On the military service thing, I almost didn't put that as I knew it would prove a non-sequiter, so I withdraw it now. But let's face it: you can't really support the troops without supporting what they do and what they sign up for. So by having a society where you are automatically a pariah if you don't support the troops, you also have a society where support of violent military conflict is basically a given.American society promotes violence as a means to solve conflict. And it occurs on all levels. So when a child attempts to solve their personal problems with violent means, it doesn't surprise me at all. The fact that easy access to guns provides much easier means to do violence to many more people doesn't surprise me either.I'm saying this because I have lived outside this country and seen how easy it is for a society to not promote violence. But I was living in a small central European country, not the big, bad, buttkicking United States.

 

[Sam Quentin]

[American society promotes violence as a means to solve conflict.

And sometimes it doesCan you solve naziism and tyranny without violence?Do criminals typically go to jail voluntarily?

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Clifford, it's not like I don't sympathize with what you're trying to say. But the reason that Rooster Cogburn is a hero is because he makes money being a hero. Films like that are made because that's what people want to see. Do you remember about 20 years ago when the film "Boys In The Hood" came out? The release of that film coincided somewhat with the Rodney King Riots, and I remember at the time there were cast members speaking out and complaining that there were too many gun stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods, and asking why? The implication was that this was some sort of societal plot. Well, I'm a commercial real estate agent, and they never bothered to ask this question to anyone in my profession. The reason there are gun stores and liquor stores in many black neighborhoods is because they make good money there. Their sales are high in those areas. That's it; end of explanation.We cannot change the way people think. Our television and movie culture reflects what the public wants; it's not set. When it' is set, it's on accident. Nobody has ever found a way to shape public opinion.

I know this. My point is that talking about video games without examining the other 10,000 ways our society actively promotes guns and violence to kids is ridiculous. I do not think we can wave a magic wand and make this happen. However, we do know that our ultra-violent culture is unique in the first world, and we do know that other countries with similar socio-economic conditions and similar demographics have managed to achieve far lower violent crime rates. And we do know that most of the countries that do have far greater gun restrictions than we do.Yet we sit here, with kids killing kids with guns, and wonder what the hell we can do about this. On the military service thing, I almost didn't put that as I knew it would prove a non-sequiter, so I withdraw it now. But let's face it: you can't really support the troops without supporting what they do and what they sign up for. So by having a society where you are automatically a pariah if you don't support the troops, you also have a society where support of violent military conflict is basically a given.American society promotes violence as a means to solve conflict. And it occurs on all levels. So when a child attempts to solve their personal problems with violent means, it doesn't surprise me at all. The fact that easy access to guns provides much easier means to do violence to many more people doesn't surprise me either.I'm saying this because I have lived outside this country and seen how easy it is for a society to not promote violence. But I was living in a small central European country, not the big, bad, buttkicking United States.

I don't agree with your troops statement.You can support the troops and still not like the fact that they were in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, etc...You don't have to justify the cause but can still support the men and women in the military

 

[Sam Quentin]

Clifford, it's not like I don't sympathize with what you're trying to say. But the reason that Rooster Cogburn is a hero is because he makes money being a hero. Films like that are made because that's what people want to see. Do you remember about 20 years ago when the film "Boys In The Hood" came out? The release of that film coincided somewhat with the Rodney King Riots, and I remember at the time there were cast members speaking out and complaining that there were too many gun stores and liquor stores in black neighborhoods, and asking why? The implication was that this was some sort of societal plot. Well, I'm a commercial real estate agent, and they never bothered to ask this question to anyone in my profession. The reason there are gun stores and liquor stores in many black neighborhoods is because they make good money there. Their sales are high in those areas. That's it; end of explanation.We cannot change the way people think. Our television and movie culture reflects what the public wants; it's not set. When it' is set, it's on accident. Nobody has ever found a way to shape public opinion.

I know this. My point is that talking about video games without examining the other 10,000 ways our society actively promotes guns and violence to kids is ridiculous. I do not think we can wave a magic wand and make this happen. However, we do know that our ultra-violent culture is unique in the first world, and we do know that other countries with similar socio-economic conditions and similar demographics have managed to achieve far lower violent crime rates. And we do know that most of the countries that do have far greater gun restrictions than we do.Yet we sit here, with kids killing kids with guns, and wonder what the hell we can do about this. On the military service thing, I almost didn't put that as I knew it would prove a non-sequiter, so I withdraw it now. But let's face it: you can't really support the troops without supporting what they do and what they sign up for. So by having a society where you are automatically a pariah if you don't support the troops, you also have a society where support of violent military conflict is basically a given.American society promotes violence as a means to solve conflict. And it occurs on all levels. So when a child attempts to solve their personal problems with violent means, it doesn't surprise me at all. The fact that easy access to guns provides much easier means to do violence to many more people doesn't surprise me either.I'm saying this because I have lived outside this country and seen how easy it is for a society to not promote violence. But I was living in a small central European country, not the big, bad, buttkicking United States.

I don't agree with your troops statement.You can support the troops and still not like the fact that they were in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, etc...You don't have to justify the cause but can still support the men and women in the military

I think what Clifford is saying is that the people in the service signed up to do a job. That job is to kill people and break things. This is soemthing he can't support regardless of the cause...