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Public Schools are getting worse (1 Viewer)

How do we as parents balance "stay involved" our children's education (and social / emotional lives) without being helicopter parents? How do we let our kids succeed and fail on their own merits without clearing the path for them to "set them up" for success?
 
Many of the ideas of y schooling are great if you have the right kid and right family to make it work but the ideas of no bed time and no screen time limits is worrisome to me. Does that really work?
 
but the ideas of no bed time and no screen time limits is worrisome to me.
This is a thing?
Yeah that’s a pretty core part of it from discussion I’ve seen online. The kids get to choose what they want to do.
Terrible idea. Not the getting to choose what to work on (my 5th and 7th graders are in a Montessori school -- so they kinda get to choose what to work on) but the unlimited screen time and no bed time is
 
but the ideas of no bed time and no screen time limits is worrisome to me.
This is a thing?
I bet under 50% of kids have screen limits. Actual, enforced, screen limits. Not even close to 50%, actually.
Sounds like we need a pole.

I sure hope it is way more than 50%
Would have to be by Age. My 17 yr old does not have any screen time or bed time, but he did until this year. His phone would lock from 10pm - 6. and bedtime was 10;30. He is a 3.85 GPA student in his junior year so we lifted them before school started because we felt he was responsible enough to know when he needed to go to bed and his screen time is limited during the school year just because he is involved in so many activities. However we did tell him that if his grades slipped, the locks would go back into place.
 
sophomore has no screen time limits. we took them away after he showed the maturity to not need it. he is in several ap courses and getting straight A's. Purposefully giving him more autonomy as he gets older so when he goes to college he doesn't eff up.

10 year old twins have screen time limits and always complain wanting more. not liking the way things are going with them on that front
 
Would have to be by Age
Definitely. Not sure what age is appropriate but our 11 and 13 year olds only have old phones of ours that have no service. So they can connect to internet and play games but they use their stand alone apple watches to text with friends. They get 45 minutes a day on weekends of screen time plus the occasional weekdays when they offer to do extra **** around the house. The uproar has been manageable so far. Many of their friends have, if not unlimited, a **** ton of screen time everyday.
 
but the ideas of no bed time and no screen time limits is worrisome to me.
This is a thing?
I bet under 50% of kids have screen limits. Actual, enforced, screen limits. Not even close to 50%, actually.
Sounds like we need a pole.

I sure hope it is way more than 50%
Would have to be by Age. My 17 yr old does not have any screen time or bed time, but he did until this year. His phone would lock from 10pm - 6. and bedtime was 10;30. He is a 3.85 GPA student in his junior year so we lifted them before school started because we felt he was responsible enough to know when he needed to go to bed and his screen time is limited during the school year just because he is involved in so many activities. However we did tell him that if his grades slipped, the locks would go back into place.
That makes total sense. Most of my HS I didn’t have a bed time or limit on TV or internet. I also like you said had good grades, a job, played sports and even though I was partying a lot on the weekends I was very responsible with the stuff my parents knew about. The unschooling thing is like hey you 9 year old shouldn’t have rules. Whenever they decide it’s time to turn the video games off and go to bed is ok.
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
Listen I'm not going to invalidate your experience but your story could be any school public or private. My BiL went private Catholic school and refused to send his kids there because of the stuff you described. There were a lot of "easy" girls there.

So while I know your experience is genuine I don't think it's private vs public, I think it's school as a community. I've witnessed the exact opposite even growing up the local Catholic girls were the fun ones. :shrug:

I just think this varies widely by area/state, economics imo
 
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but the ideas of no bed time and no screen time limits is worrisome to me.
This is a thing?
Yeah that’s a pretty core part of it from discussion I’ve seen online. The kids get to choose what they want to do.
We have devices programmed to turn off at X time for our youngest, but no way we can enforce screen limits. I'm a firm believer in not threatening something unless you're going to see through consequences. There are multiple nights per week my wife and I are home for < 10 mins before ~9 pm. we have to hold him accountable via alternative means.
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
Listen I'm not going to invalidate your experience but your story could be any school public or private. My BiL went private Catholic school and refused to send his kids there because of the stuff you described. There were a lot of "easy" girls there.

So while I know your experience is genuine I don't think it's private vs public, I think it's school as a community. I've witnessed the exact opposite even growing up the local Catholic girls were the fun ones. :shrug:

I just think this varies widely by area/state, economics imo
I get it. Like I said, this was not the route I wanted to go originally and had my own preconceptions of private school.

There are a number of other things that I did not touch on.... for example, the academic expectations and standards are much higher than public school. This was driven home to me a few years back when I took my daughter to the Barnes and Noble to buy a book she was needed to read. This was when she was in 4th grade. I looked and could not find it, finally I asked one of the girls that worked there. She said "Oh, yea, I remember reading that in 7th grade." I was shocked. I said "I am sorry, did you say 7th grade?" and she said yes, she remembered it clearly and blah blah blah. It struck me hard because it wasn't like just a grade difference but several. I think that is driven by the smaller class sizes and flat out higher expectations versus the teaching to the lowest common denominator that I think often happens in public school.

From my own experience of public school and what I have seen at my kids school, another big difference is the teachers. When I was a kid, growing up in a good school district, most of the teachers were obviously there to collect their pay check and wait out until they could retire. Of course there were exceptions but the number of absolutely horrible teachers that I had as a kid frightens the hell out of me now as a parent. I get a different feeling from the teachers at my kids school. They could make a lot more money working at a public school (some do make the jump) but it seems that most are there because they want to be there. If they just wanted to collect the paycheck like I experienced, they would go to public schools.

I mentioned several of my clients that were teachers that sent their kids to private school... the other thing I have noticed is that there are a number of parents of kids at our school that work in the public school systems. But they choose to send their kids to our school.

There are many other reasons as well. But the community that my kids have with their grade mates is absolutely unmatched by anything in public schools. There is just no way a public school could match it. Smaller school, the kids largely being accepting and friendly to all, a vibrant sports program, expectations of community service, connection to the church, etc.... the head start that this school has while public schools have challenges over challenges to overcome is significant. Another example of the community is how much the families spend time with one another. The parents hang out with one another often. Most of the kids best friends are at the school and the majority of their friends are at the school. If you go to a birthday party, you will see the kids from the grade, a sibling or two or cousin etc and then maybe another friend that isn't from the school. The parents will sit around and talk (and drink most often) as well.

Community is also a form of peer pressure and I think largely my kids have experienced positive peer pressure from that community. Where as I know that the public schools, there is a ton of negative peer pressure. From all the parents I have talked to.... either from around here or otherwise, they always describe a feeling of essentially swimming upstream while at public schools. I have never had that feeling with our school.

Thinking back to my experiences of what I saw in private/pubic school, I think the main difference was the family. As I mentioned before knowing most of the families of the girls of 8th grade and most of the families of the boys there are only three divorces. One of them, I didn't even know for a bit they were divorced because they are so cordial and sit together for sports etc.... the other two not so much.... lol but even that family, both parents are involved and both parents are at the kids games etc. The difference between what I saw from private school kids that were 'troubled' and here is the engagement and interest of the parents in the kids lives and absolutely having a father and mother that are married adds to that. The kids from the private schools that I knew, the parents were often divorced but always absent in the kids lives in a major way.

I don't think there is anything magical about private school versus public but I do absolutely believe that a private school is positioned to succeed in ways public schools can never. I also think they public schools have challenges that private schools may not have to deal with as much or at all.
 
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I get it and as I said it is going to vary greatly by areas and economic. But I live in a state that is ranked one of the tops in the nation. There have actually been a ton of Catholic school contractions

Fwiw my public school had 300 kids total. So the small community schools with civic responsibility, families all knowing each other, kids playing sports together etc is exactly as you described. Of course that was 20 years ago but the school is barely larger today with the same commitment.

We moved to this area for my kids education and even though there are 2000 kids it feels small. But academics is strong. I'm sure kids fall through the cracks but kids are going to great colleges and some graduate college in 3 years because of the dual credits they earn

I just feel as I stated this is going to be wildly different in different areas.
 
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I get it and as I said it is going to vary greatly by areas and economic. But I live in a state that is ranked one of the tops in the nation. There have actually been a ton of Catholic school contractions

Fwiw my public school had 300 kids total. So the small community schools with civic responsibility, families all knowing each other, kids playing sports together etc is exactly as you described. Of course that was 20 years ago but the school is barely larger today with the same commitment.

We moved to this area for my kids education and even though there are 2000 kids it feels small. But academics is strong. I'm sure kids fall through the cracks but kids are going to great colleges and some graduate college in 3 years because of the dual credits they earn

I just feel as I stated this is going to be wildly different in different areas.
I can't say much about rural areas but personally, I do not trust urban and suburban public schools. Of course that does not mean a child can no succeed in one nor does it mean that a child can not fail in a private school.

As I stated a couple of times, I was not always a true believer, in fact, I was opposed to private school but the experience I have had with my kids at one and then the further experience of my own in a 'good' public school system and talking to friends with their kids in public schools... I was a convert. On average, I do think a kid in a private school has an advantage over the kid in a public school. I do believe, without any doubt, that my kids are much better off for going to one than they would had they gone to public school.

Unfortunately, I do not think we can afford to send them to a private high school (though my older son has potential to be sought after as an athlete and thus may find more money given to him to go).
 
Daughter told us yesterday she has a kid in her class that routinely throws massive tantrums. Then goes wet noodle as they drag him out of class 2-3 times a day. All the kids go stand in one corner of the room while they deal with this brat.

Says he isnt violent towards any kids just basically fish out of waters it on the ground while fake crying.
 
On average, I do think a kid in a private school has an advantage over the kid in a public school. I do believe, without any doubt, that my kids are much better off for going to one than they would had they gone to public school.
They do, but it's not necessarily because of the school. It is about the income and parental education and a host of other factors out of control of the school itself (except for the fact that those school can handpick their students many times)
 
And I'm sure times have changed my cousin was sent to private school because he was a distraction and then thrown out of them also ......... RIP
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
Listen I'm not going to invalidate your experience but your story could be any school public or private. My BiL went private Catholic school and refused to send his kids there because of the stuff you described. There were a lot of "easy" girls there.

So while I know your experience is genuine I don't think it's private vs public, I think it's school as a community. I've witnessed the exact opposite even growing up the local Catholic girls were the fun ones. :shrug:

I just think this varies widely by area/state, economics imo
Private schools by default are not better than public schools. I know A LOT of people who went to Private schools who are not very bright. And a lot of them are socially lacking. (to say it mildly)
 
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Last year my youngest daughter was having a lot of problems with other girls in middle school. It escalated to problems with the teachers and eventually got to the point where my wife and I had issues with the principal. Mostly due to the principle going through my daughter's phone over a rumor that was reported to her. We were never informed of that until our daughter told us it happened.

My daughter isn't above the drama, but the school did a horrible job in so many areas managing the kids last year. We ultimately pulled her out of that middle school and she will attend a Christian private school this year. Thankfully we made the cut, in part because I agreed to help with their athletic program. Their applications were up substantially this year. Along with that, some scholarship money I tought we were going to get only cane back at 10% because according to that organization their applications were up 50% from last year.

Now what really has me annoyed is that I have two kids going to the local public high school and went back this week. So far the school has made an announcement that not all students will get a Chromebook, although it's required for their schoolwork. They also have a shortage of lockers, so not every kid is going to get a locker and some kids will have to share.

Talking to my son after his first day, his homeroom is in a trailer they placed behind the school. Apparently they have 3 of these set up this year. I haven't seen the setup yet, but it doesn't sound like there is much security.

He currently doesn't have a math teacher because the teacher quit right before school started and the school has no replacement. It's been 3 days with three different substitutes who have no idea what is going on.

To top all this off... 3 days in and there has already been a kid stabbed with a screwdriver. This is rural NC in a decent area. They have metal detectors at the entrances and even go through kids bags when they enter, but this still happens.

It just feels like the schools have lost control. Education scores are dropping and we aren't going in the right direction to fix it all. I see why parents are flocking to private schools.

I don't think these issues are isolated to my area. Only a couple weeks ago a neighboring county reported they still have 30 teacher openings unfilled.

Public schools are broken.
Im late to the party, but I feel the need to comment: Public schools are not broken, parents of kids in public schools are broken.

No offense here MP and I am not trying to single you out, however, the behaviour you are exhibiting in this post is the problem. This has the easiest solution for which few are willing to solve and the ones who solve it are solving it wrong.

Solution: You and your like minded friends run for School Committee (or the like for your local municipality) and hire a proper Superintendent of Schools.

It is literally that easy. Be part of the solution (im speaking to all parents now, not just you MP) instead of complaining on social media and expecting someone else to solve it for you.

GB MP - my response is coming from a good place. I apologize for how attacking it may sound.
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
 
Quite frankly, and sadly imo, many areas of the country prioritize funding other ventures rather than public schools.

Our schools should be beautiful, safe buildings where teachers are paid a very good wage for doing really important work. We don’t prioritize that and so we get what we get. It sucks.
1000%

Over 2/3 of every tax dollar in our municipality goes to the schools.
 
Combining all levels of government, the U.S. spends somewhere between $780-830 billion on education. Is the amount of money available really the problem?
IMO we should exclude federal dollars here. Also, you might be bringing in higher education into this which I would remove.

IMO K-12 should be completely funded at the local level with the state helping to secure low low 30y bonds and matching funds for capital projects.
 
Combining all levels of government, the U.S. spends somewhere between $780-830 billion on education. Is the amount of money available really the problem?

I would assume great inefficiency like most programs but ignoring that it does seem to (naturally) correlate spending with results. The thing that jumps out at me about these stats is how much more some states are spending. North Carolina is pretty low on both lists.

https://educationdata.org/public-education-spending-statistics


More money doesn’t guarantee anything though.

ETA - I just googled and grabbed links. I’m taking the numbers at face value.
:bowtie:
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
 
I worry about a teacher shortage very soon. I know more than a few young teachers who left the profession coming out of the pandemic. People in their 20s and early 30s who just felt like the juice wasn't worth the squeeze and found other jobs before they got too old to find another career.
and first responders
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
 
Part of the problem ?

Increase spending and I’ll put money on which line it goes to.
Most of the problem.
I’d like to see schools run more efficiently, but I’m not sure if administration is the boogeyman.

Administrative Costs as a percentage of budget

Analysis of data published by the U.S. Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics shows 6.7 percent of school districts’ budgets related to administration in 2019-20, the most recent year available. Twenty years earlier, the percentage was 6.6 percent.
Insurance and operating expenses (inflation) are increasing at a higher rate than taxes. This is why it is so important to be able have levies which allow taxes to meet costs. Yes it sucks to citizens, but education is expensive.
 
Class sizes are bigger than they used to be. Parenting is worse. The kids grow up on screens and have much worse attention spans.
Class sizes are actually smaller on average now. In the 1950's it was between 35-40 kids on average. In the 90's it was 25 kids. Today the average is around 20 students.

And bad parenting has always been the issue with schools and learning. Not sure there are worse parents now then in previous generations.
That narrows it down. I think we've found the culprit.
this

Teachers are more baby-sitters than educators. This is a parent problem.
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
Okay. If a person is going to lead off with "it's a lack of funding," it seems like we would need to start with a surface-level understanding of what public school funding is actually like. For example, does the US spend more, less, or about the same on its public schools as Germany? Japan? Canada? Surely if we're going to say that our schools are under-funded, we should have a general idea of what their funding level actually is, right?

I'll speed this up and get to the point. "US schools are underfunded" is one of those things that everyone thinks is so, but just isn't so. It's an urban legend. The US spends more per-capita on its public school students than pretty much anybody. No doubt there are individual school and school districts in various parts of the US that funded worse than others, but lack of funding is definitely not a system-wide problem. Or, it's a problem that must be really bad in other countries if it's causing a problem here.
 
Not sure throwing more money at these school districts will solve the problem.

It starts with Administration. Our schools district is top heavy, with Admin giving themselves huge raises going into a budget deficit........only so they can then take a partial cut from the raise they just gave themselves. Then they can say " see, admin is feeling the cuts too.".....meanwhile, teachers and students, in the classrooms are told to do more with less.

This is something that gets brought up a lot, but what exactly is "administration"? Are these all non-instructional staff? Are we just talking people like the superintendent and HR managers?
This exact same argument comes up all the time in higher ed too. When people talk about the need to cut back on administration, it's always good to ask them specifically which positions they're talking about.

I mean, obviously we're still going to have department chairs, academic deans, a provost, etc., just like you'll always have a principal and a superintendent. Those people aren't where the growth in spending is coming from. The reason why admin spending has blown up is because of two types of employees:

1) Staff members who do some technical, back-of-house job that faculty don't even know exists. E.g. the people who make sure that scholarships get routed to students who were awarded them, the guy who supervises our entire night janitorial staff (hundreds of people who are totally invisible to folks like me), the lady who writes contracts for study abroad programs, the person who handles visiting talent at the performing arts center, etc.

2) Staff members whose main job is making sure we're complying with some law or policy. That's the entire TIX office, several people in financial aid, about half of everyone in grants and contracts, an uncertain number of people in facilities and services, a person or two at UPD, etc. We absolutely must have those people, even if I don't like the regulation that we're hiring them to comply with.

If you want to cut back on administration, you need to greatly reduce the amount of regulation and oversight that we are subject to. That simply isn't going to happen, and regardless it's not our fault.
If anyone wants to read a horrible yet true example of this, Gordon Gee at WVU took a flourishing university (insert FBG jokes here) and flushed its financial freedom down the toilet through hiring of Administrator after Administrator who attempted to wishcast them out of financial distress.

Decent article here: https://www.insidehighered.com/news...aculty-overwhelmingly-votes-no-confidence-gee
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
Okay. If a person is going to lead off with "it's a lack of funding," it seems like we would need to start with a surface-level understanding of what public school funding is actually like. For example, does the US spend more, less, or about the same on its public schools as Germany? Japan? Canada? Surely if we're going to say that our schools are under-funded, we should have a general idea of what their funding level actually is, right?

I'll speed this up and get to the point. "US schools are underfunded" is one of those things that everyone thinks is so, but just isn't so. It's an urban legend. The US spends more per-capita on its public school students than pretty much anybody. No doubt there are individual school and school districts in various parts of the US that funded worse than others, but lack of funding is definitely not a system-wide problem. Or, it's a problem that must be really bad in other countries if it's causing a problem here.

I'm guessing that a large portion of the US spending more can mostly be broken into 3 categories:
1. Higher COL and wages than most of the world. The cost to staff a school or school district is going to be near the top in the world. So will maintenance costs and capital improvements.
2. Broad services - one of the things that makes me most proud to be an American is how we address children with handicaps or learning disabilities - I'm not sure there is another country that takes as good of care of these kids as we do. But that comes at a significant financial cost. If we just ignored these kids or stuck them all in one classroom, it would be much cheaper, but we all know that is wrong. I would be surprised to hear that we spend less on high-needs kids than any other country in the world.
3. Inefficiencies and bureaucracy - I think we've beat this to death in this thread, but I do imagine there is more "wasted" money in this area than many other countries.
 
Quite frankly, and sadly imo, many areas of the country prioritize funding other ventures rather than public schools.

Our schools should be beautiful, safe buildings where teachers are paid a very good wage for doing really important work. We don’t prioritize that and so we get what we get. It sucks.
1000%

Over 2/3 of every tax dollar in our municipality goes to the schools.
I've been paying thousands in property taxes for yearsssssss and I don't have kids. I want a educated populace, but it's being squandered potentially and I don't want to keep paying more. I went to Public schools. So it is sad to hear they have somehow gotten worse?
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
Okay. If a person is going to lead off with "it's a lack of funding," it seems like we would need to start with a surface-level understanding of what public school funding is actually like. For example, does the US spend more, less, or about the same on its public schools as Germany? Japan? Canada? Surely if we're going to say that our schools are under-funded, we should have a general idea of what their funding level actually is, right?

I'll speed this up and get to the point. "US schools are underfunded" is one of those things that everyone thinks is so, but just isn't so. It's an urban legend. The US spends more per-capita on its public school students than pretty much anybody. No doubt there are individual school and school districts in various parts of the US that funded worse than others, but lack of funding is definitely not a system-wide problem. Or, it's a problem that must be really bad in other countries if it's causing a problem here.

I'm guessing that a large portion of the US spending more can mostly be broken into 3 categories:
1. Higher COL and wages than most of the world. The cost to staff a school or school district is going to be near the top in the world. So will maintenance costs and capital improvements.
2. Broad services - one of the things that makes me most proud to be an American is how we address children with handicaps or learning disabilities - I'm not sure there is another country that takes as good of care of these kids as we do. But that comes at a significant financial cost. If we just ignored these kids or stuck them all in one classroom, it would be much cheaper, but we all know that is wrong. I would be surprised to hear that we spend less on high-needs kids than any other country in the world.
3. Inefficiencies and bureaucracy - I think we've beat this to death in this thread, but I do imagine there is more "wasted" money in this area than many other countries.
Agreed on all counts. And to be clear, I'm not saying that we spend too much on education or anything like that. It's just good understand that the US actually does spend quite a lot on its schools, and that seems appropriate.
 
Related to the OP, just saw this come across a local group: Warhill High is in desparate need of a Computer Science teacher! Please spread the word!

The school year started yesterday. Sad that they still have an open position. Very good school system though so hopefully they find someone soon.
Curious - what is the salary range for the position?

I ask as I hire Computer Scientists and Im wondering how far off the comp ranges are.
 
How do we as parents balance "stay involved" our children's education (and social / emotional lives) without being helicopter parents? How do we let our kids succeed and fail on their own merits without clearing the path for them to "set them up" for success?
Ask your kids questions. Help them with their homework. Play games with them.

Let teachers teach
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
This is a great story, thank you. That said, I would wager its not a private vs public school thing, it's a good vs bad school thing. May even be large vs small school thing.
 
On average, I do think a kid in a private school has an advantage over the kid in a public school. I do believe, without any doubt, that my kids are much better off for going to one than they would had they gone to public school.
They do, but it's not necessarily because of the school. It is about the income and parental education and a host of other factors out of control of the school itself (except for the fact that those school can handpick their students many times)
Agreed (I think I have said similar things multiple times)... though I would add in things like smaller classrooms (my kid's are in classs that are less than half the size of that of the public school) but when it comes down to it.... I don't care WHY it is better, if it is better, then that is where my kids are going.
 
And I'm sure times have changed my cousin was sent to private school because he was a distraction and then thrown out of them also ......... RIP
Yes, in reflection that was another thing that I think accounted for my view growing up that private schools had the screwed up kids. More than a few of them were at public schools.... then either were expelled or the parents figured private school would fix them. Thus, they ended up at private schools.
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
Listen I'm not going to invalidate your experience but your story could be any school public or private. My BiL went private Catholic school and refused to send his kids there because of the stuff you described. There were a lot of "easy" girls there.

So while I know your experience is genuine I don't think it's private vs public, I think it's school as a community. I've witnessed the exact opposite even growing up the local Catholic girls were the fun ones. :shrug:

I just think this varies widely by area/state, economics imo
Private schools by default are not better than public schools. I know A LOT of people who went to Private schools who are not very bright. And a lot of them are socially lacking. (to say it mildly)
I know A LOT of barely functional morons and extremely socially awkward people from public school. :shrug:
 
Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
Okay. If a person is going to lead off with "it's a lack of funding," it seems like we would need to start with a surface-level understanding of what public school funding is actually like. For example, does the US spend more, less, or about the same on its public schools as Germany? Japan? Canada? Surely if we're going to say that our schools are under-funded, we should have a general idea of what their funding level actually is, right?

I'll speed this up and get to the point. "US schools are underfunded" is one of those things that everyone thinks is so, but just isn't so. It's an urban legend. The US spends more per-capita on its public school students than pretty much anybody. No doubt there are individual school and school districts in various parts of the US that funded worse than others, but lack of funding is definitely not a system-wide problem. Or, it's a problem that must be really bad in other countries if it's causing a problem here.
As someone who is intimate with our municipal budgets, I can guarantee you that not I, nor anyone in our municipality, nor do I know anyone in any state-wide municipality, which compares our budgets to ones of other countries. So I cannot answer anything to do with how our budgets compare to those of any other country.
 
Class sizes are bigger than they used to be. Parenting is worse. The kids grow up on screens and have much worse attention spans.
Class sizes are actually smaller on average now. In the 1950's it was between 35-40 kids on average. In the 90's it was 25 kids. Today the average is around 20 students.

And bad parenting has always been the issue with schools and learning. Not sure there are worse parents now then in previous generations.
That narrows it down. I think we've found the culprit.
this

Teachers are more baby-sitters than educators. This is a parent problem.
And you don't have that at private schools (at least the one that my kids go to) while I know this happens at the public schools around us.
 
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Any idea what caused the overcrowding? It seems to me (outside observer) that our local school board has done a pretty good job looking at our demographics a few years down the road and staying ahead of predictable changes to incoming classes. Was this a case of something happening by surprise, or just folks being asleep at the switch?
I'm going to go out on a limb and say a lack of funding. This is what happens when people continuously vote against levies. What do you want them to do, build another building with no money?
It seems like you're here for an argument. Please leave me out of this.
IK - its a pretty solid response. Voting against increasing the amount of money a town can tax will inhibit its ability to grow at the appropriate rate.
How much does the US spend on its public schools relative to other first-world countries?
I have no idea. I only have my personal, real world, in-depth, first-hand experience.
Okay. If a person is going to lead off with "it's a lack of funding," it seems like we would need to start with a surface-level understanding of what public school funding is actually like. For example, does the US spend more, less, or about the same on its public schools as Germany? Japan? Canada? Surely if we're going to say that our schools are under-funded, we should have a general idea of what their funding level actually is, right?

I'll speed this up and get to the point. "US schools are underfunded" is one of those things that everyone thinks is so, but just isn't so. It's an urban legend. The US spends more per-capita on its public school students than pretty much anybody. No doubt there are individual school and school districts in various parts of the US that funded worse than others, but lack of funding is definitely not a system-wide problem. Or, it's a problem that must be really bad in other countries if it's causing a problem here.
It isn't a spending problem. I think the spending arguments are more of a political argument than anything else.
It is a family core problem.

Private schools will have more committed, engaged and interactive families on average than public and thus private schools will have an advantage over public schools on average.
 
Quite frankly, and sadly imo, many areas of the country prioritize funding other ventures rather than public schools.

Our schools should be beautiful, safe buildings where teachers are paid a very good wage for doing really important work. We don’t prioritize that and so we get what we get. It sucks.
1000%

Over 2/3 of every tax dollar in our municipality goes to the schools.
I've been paying thousands in property taxes for yearsssssss and I don't have kids. I want a educated populace, but it's being squandered potentially and I don't want to keep paying more. I went to Public schools. So it is sad to hear they have somehow gotten worse?
Fair point, and this is the EXACT conversation I have with residents, let me know if your situation is different:

Resident: My taxes are so high and I pay them but I dont have any kids in school
Me: Actually, your tax rate is just about the lowest it has been in a decade.
Resident: Sure, but my house has gone up in value hence my higher tax bill
Me: Your house going up in value is a good thing right?
Resident: YES! But I only realize that value when I sell it
Me: OK, so you have an asset which has gone up in value a bunch and you get to keep those profits when you choose to sell it. Is this a problem?
Resident: But my taxes are too high!
Me: What is the alternative? Your tax rate is at a long time low, what would you like to happen instead?
Resident: But my taxes!
Me: <crickets>

If you live in a desirable school district, you probably have a home which is worth a lot of money because it is desirable and most likely you are paying a bunch of taxes. If you don't pay a bunch of taxes, chances are you don't live in a desirable school district and thus your home is not that desirable.

How did I do? :bowtie:

In all seriousness, if you don't want to pay the taxes you will have to sell your desirable home.
 
About 9 years ago, my oldest was about ready for to leave her pre-school to go to kindergarten and we needed to decide where she would go. My wife grew up in the suburb we live in and she wanted her to go to the same school she and all her family did, a small Catholic school. I grew up going to public schools all my life. I was prejudiced against private schools because it seemed to me that the kids I knew that were 'really screwed up' were at the private schools. Now, that may not be a cause and effect there but it was my impression. Further, we live in a very good school district and why should I already pay for that in taxes and then pay more to send my kid to another school?

I was still not thrilled about sending her there but I softened after I happened to end up talking to several clients of mine who were teachers in public schools and they all sent their own children to Catholic schools. The main point they all had was classroom size but they have several others points as well.

My daughter went to the Catholic school and my two boys followed. Now, I think it was the best decision we have made for our kids to date.

There are a number of reasons for this but one that I can tell a story about that helps explain why is in a family we became very good friends with which started with our daughters being friends at that pre-school. Their daughter went to public school while ours went to Catholic school. Every July 4th, our two families spend the day together. A couple of years ago, my friends daughter invited one of her friends over. It struck me that both her and her friend did not look their age. They just seemed to carry themselves and dress and act with an older 'maturity' if I did not know how old they were, I would have guess they were a couple years older than my daughter even though they were the same age. Afterwards, my daughter told me that they were talking and the other two girls were doing what girls do and basically gossiping about who liked who and who was dating who, etc. At one point they obviously realized that they were leaving my daughter out so they asked "So, who is dating who at Catholic school?" and my daughter replied "Uh, we don't really do that at Catholic school." One of the best things I have ever heard in my life. Further, in talking to my friend, I found out that their daughter had been going through basically HELL at school. The whole drama of girls hating on girls and then even a boy breaking up with her and telling her that she should kill herself. Meanwhile, my daughter is friendly or friends with all the girls in her grade and I know most of them- and of course nothing is perfect and there has been drama with friends but no where near the level our friends daughter had endured.

I think a huge difference from the schools is that at our school, most of the families are intact. Through my daughter and older sons grades (I don't know my younger sons class well yet) I can think of two families that are divorced. All the parents are engaged and involved in their kids lives. They are not absent or neglectful. I think that this makes a huge difference.

I can also see it in the times I have interacted with kids in the neighborhood- where they swear like sailors, try to act tough (mumbling 'f you' type stuff) and no respect for others versus the consistent "Hello Mr. Chadstroma" with respect for all these boys in my daughters grade.... all last year, where I would say "Hey bud, how are you?" and then think.... who the heck was that kid? :lmao: As I only knew a couple of the boys (mostly those that had younger siblings) since you kind of only end up knowing the family and kids of our kids sex.... I know most of the girls and their families in my daughters grade and then I know most of the boys and their families for my sons grade.... but not the girls in my sons grade. I later found out, from our friends daughter who knows a few of the kids from the Catholic school that "all the boys are scared of you." which may account for them all being so respectful. lol

My daughter graduates Jr High this year. I very much do not want her to go to the public high school even though it is supposed to be like a top 50 high school in Illinois. I much rather her go to one of the Catholic schools but I don't think we can afford it. We are in that box of making too much money to get a meaningful 'need based' tuition assistance and not enough that it doesn't make a huge dent into our family finances. I am not looking forward to it. I have no interest in public schools.
This is a great story, thank you. That said, I would wager its not a private vs public school thing, it's a good vs bad school thing. May even be large vs small school thing.
:shrug:Being in a 'very good' public school system there is no comparison between the public schools and our private school. I recognize that this isn't a scientific study conclusion but there is no comparison in my mind and I can only imagine the difference if we did not live in a 'very good' school system.
 
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Quite frankly, and sadly imo, many areas of the country prioritize funding other ventures rather than public schools.

Our schools should be beautiful, safe buildings where teachers are paid a very good wage for doing really important work. We don’t prioritize that and so we get what we get. It sucks.
1000%

Over 2/3 of every tax dollar in our municipality goes to the schools.
I've been paying thousands in property taxes for yearsssssss and I don't have kids. I want a educated populace, but it's being squandered potentially and I don't want to keep paying more. I went to Public schools. So it is sad to hear they have somehow gotten worse?
Fair point, and this is the EXACT conversation I have with residents, let me know if your situation is different:

Resident: My taxes are so high and I pay them but I dont have any kids in school
Me: Actually, your tax rate is just about the lowest it has been in a decade.
Resident: Sure, but my house has gone up in value hence my higher tax bill
Me: Your house going up in value is a good thing right?
Resident: YES! But I only realize that value when I sell it
Me: OK, so you have an asset which has gone up in value a bunch and you get to keep those profits when you choose to sell it. Is this a problem?
Resident: But my taxes are too high!
Me: What is the alternative? Your tax rate is at a long time low, what would you like to happen instead?
Resident: But my taxes!
Me: <crickets>

If you live in a desirable school district, you probably have a home which is worth a lot of money because it is desirable and most likely you are paying a bunch of taxes. If you don't pay a bunch of taxes, chances are you don't live in a desirable school district and thus your home is not that desirable.

How did I do? :bowtie:

In all seriousness, if you don't want to pay the taxes you will have to sell your desirable home.
Like our entire tax system that is archaic, inefficient and regressive- property taxes are just dumb and a horrible way to fund schools.
 

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