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Climate Change thread: UN Report: we need to take action (1 Viewer)

https://www.axios.com/2022/07/20/europe-heat-wave-new-global-warming-era?stream=top

Catch up fast: In the past week, temperature records dating back centuries have been obliterated, particularly on Tuesday in the U.K. The heat is shifting east, into a swath of Europe extending from Germany to Sweden.

Why it matters: The heat wave upended life in several major industrialized nations and killed more than 1,000 people, a toll likely to increase. Many of the wildfires it breathed life into are still burning out of control.

By the numbers: A staggering 34 weather observing stations in the U.K. provisionally broke the country's all-time high temperature record on Tuesday.
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Here we have england. 😁

https://twitter.com/ZoDiAcZ34/status/1550185931587600384

JIslander said:
Dude -- how can anyone see whats going on around the globe and be in denial about climate change anymore?  I mean 104 in London  :hot:
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Oh it may be changing but thinking man can do anything about it is sadly comical. Going "green" will not stop it. Simply put, they are altering the look to cause fear. How else can you easily do that? Alter where you get the temp reading from. Who is gonna question it. You know what melted in the early 1980s?. The highway in Iowa. I drove thru it them. The right lane  truly melted. We all drove in the left lane. When you crossed over it sounded like driving in water. But its all about fear now. "Oh a 10 ' section of runway in england needs fixed, lets say its melted from climate change' 

 
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timschochet said:
I’ve read that before. I have no idea if it’s true. And if it is, who cares? It doesn’t make his predictions any less right, and it doesn’t make him a hypocrite since fixing climate change is a top down, not bottom up effort. 
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Come on, seriously...if you want more buy in by the great unwashed than don't be a hypocrite...practice what you preach...if you want Marie Antoniette's like Gore and Kerry leading the charge on climate change don't expect it to be taken as seriously as it should be...elitism is just an awful look.

 
JIslander said:
Dude -- how can anyone see whats going on around the globe and be in denial about climate change anymore?  I mean 104 in London  :hot:
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How can anyone be so shortsighted to think that humans are affecting the planet to this scale when the core temperatures show this pattern repeat throughout the planet's history. 

In either case, even if you believe that humans are destroying the planet, how can anyone be stupid enough to believe allowing governments to destroy our ability to produce food is the solution to this problem? Unless the conclusion is we need to kill as many humans as possible to solve it. Because that's all this is going to do. Kill hundreds of millions of people through mass starvation. 

 
Insein said:
How can anyone be so shortsighted to think that humans are affecting the planet to this scale when the core temperatures show this pattern repeat throughout the planet's history. 

In either case, even if you believe that humans are destroying the planet, how can anyone be stupid enough to believe allowing governments to destroy our ability to produce food is the solution to this problem? Unless the conclusion is we need to kill as many humans as possible to solve it. Because that's all this is going to do. Kill hundreds of millions of people through mass starvation. 
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For paragraph 1, start with carbon emission data going back 800,000 years. It's "off the charts " in the last few decades.

https://images.app.goo.gl/vfNfMzrVHfMv4Kze9

For paragraph 2, look at David Attenborough's netflix videos and the graphics of destruction of forests and species. We can produce enough food, but if we keep eating so much animal protein there will be more destruction of species and forests that absorb CO2. I don't think we'll run out of food, but we're robbing our children and their children of a better future. One solution us to eat less meat, and use less palm oil and mahogany wood, etc.  Hindus have been vegetarian for generations.

 
Insein said:
How can anyone be so shortsighted to think that humans are affecting the planet to this scale when the core temperatures show this pattern repeat throughout the planet's history. 

In either case, even if you believe that humans are destroying the planet, how can anyone be stupid enough to believe allowing governments to destroy our ability to produce food is the solution to this problem? Unless the conclusion is we need to kill as many humans as possible to solve it. Because that's all this is going to do. Kill hundreds of millions of people through mass starvation. 
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Here is an example of this line of thinking. Where is he going with this.

The best reply -> “We must end our reliance on food”

 
joffer said:
Imagine not being able to comprehend the concept that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is warming the planet.
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Yes but imagine believing humans are the primary cause of CO2 and thus have to give up their money and freedoms to a group of psychopathic elites that will control all of industry for the greater good. 

 
Insein said:
Yes but imagine believing humans are the primary cause of CO2 and thus have to give up their money and freedoms to a group of psychopathic elites that will control all of industry for the greater good. 
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Who are these so called "psychopathic elites" and what is their end game?  and a link would be good for this as back up 

 
Insein said:
A link to an article that you won't believe anyway? Why?

Here's a recent article explaining how CO2 rise is not human caused but natural. I'm sure you'll disagree. 

https://iowaclimate.org/2022/07/07/by-the-numbers-co2-mostly-natural/

As for the elites wanting to kill us? Why do you think farmers are protesting around the world?
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Skeptical science is skeptical about global warming skepticism. The response to the Skrable paper referred to above  is beyond my expertise. The Skrable paper wasn't published in a climate journal, so the review process was not done by experts in the field. Until further notice, I'll trust hundreds of experts in the climate field over a retired professor of radiological sciences who was emeritus in 2010. I hope I'm wrong.

 
timschochet said:
I’ve read that before. I have no idea if it’s true. And if it is, who cares? It doesn’t make his predictions any less right, and it doesn’t make him a hypocrite since fixing climate change is a top down, not bottom up effort. 
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Isn’t he flying all over the world?  Can’t he use zoom?

 
joffer said:
Imagine not being able to comprehend the concept that increased CO2 in the atmosphere is warming the planet.
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Imagine buying into the lies of a guy who just made millions and/or billions off of your gullibility while he doesn't even bother to follow his own fear-mongering.  :lol:

No one is disagreeing that climate changes, btw.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Imagine buying into the lies of a guy who just made millions and/or billions off of your gullibility while he doesn't even bother to follow his own fear-mongering.  :lol:

No one is disagreeing that climate changes, btw.
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Why can’t the Chinese make us more Solar panels?  I wonder how many in Congress Are invested in this somehow.

 
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BladeRunner said:
Imagine buying into the lies of a guy who just made millions and/or billions off of your gullibility while he doesn't even bother to follow his own fear-mongering.  :lol:

No one is disagreeing that climate changes, btw.
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He is a shyster like all of them. I hope we see the day that all the corrupted government grifters that got rich at the taxpayers expense, get prosecuted for their crimes against humanity.

 
its a very hot summer - in fact, one of the hottest I remember 

but

The record for the most consecutive 100° days is 15, set back in the scorching summer of 1980

heat waves are not new - don't let people trick you into thinking that

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heat_waves

and those events are just recorded  in the last 120 years ..... this earth has seen incredible shifts in heat/cold events lasting decades, and even centuries

 
timschochet said:
Al Gore was on Meet The Press this morning. He was right all along. 
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Actually, Al Gore got many of his ideas from Carl Sagan, who testified before Gore and Congress almost 50 years ago in 1985, on what was then called the "greenhouse effect."

So we have a kind of handwriting on the wall. Certainly, there’s more research to be done, but as I say, there is a consensus. What can be done about it? The idea that we should immediately stop burning fossil fuel has such severe economic consequences that no one, of course, will take it seriously. But there are many other things that can be done. One has to do with subsidies for fossil fuels. More efficient use could be encouraged by fewer government subsidies.

Secondly, there are alternative energy sources, some of which are useful, at least locally. Solar power is certainly one that might be of more general use—safe fission power plants which are in principle possible. And then on a longer time scale, the prospect of fusion power, fission and fusion power plants in principle vent no infrared active gases, and therefore whatever other problems they may provide, they do not provide a greenhouse problem.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?125856-1/greenhouse-effect

 
Another prescient quote from Sagan's 1985 Congressional testimony...

Because the effects occupy more than a human generation, there is a tendency to say that they are not our problem. Of course, then they are nobody’s problem, not on my tour of duty, not on my term of office. It’s something for the next century. Let the next century worry about it. But the problem is that there are effects, and the greenhouse effect is one of them which have long time constants.

If you don’t worry about it now, it’s too late later on. And so in this issue, as in so many other issues, we are passing on extremely grave problems for our children when the time to solve the problems, if they can be solved at all, is now.

 
FairWarning said:
Why can’t the Chinese make us more Solar panels?  I wonder how many in Congress Are invested in this somehow.
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They are busy making them for themselves. They are kicking our ### in green energy production. If that doesn’t scare you (the metaphorical “you”) I’m not sure what will.  

 
Stoneworker said:
Actually, Al Gore got many of his ideas from Carl Sagan, who testified before Gore and Congress almost 50 years ago in 1985, on what was then called the "greenhouse effect."

So we have a kind of handwriting on the wall. Certainly, there’s more research to be done, but as I say, there is a consensus. What can be done about it? The idea that we should immediately stop burning fossil fuel has such severe economic consequences that no one, of course, will take it seriously. But there are many other things that can be done. One has to do with subsidies for fossil fuels. More efficient use could be encouraged by fewer government subsidies.

Secondly, there are alternative energy sources, some of which are useful, at least locally. Solar power is certainly one that might be of more general use—safe fission power plants which are in principle possible. And then on a longer time scale, the prospect of fusion power, fission and fusion power plants in principle vent no infrared active gases, and therefore whatever other problems they may provide, they do not provide a greenhouse problem.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?125856-1/greenhouse-effect
Click to expand...


Stoneworker said:
Another prescient quote from Sagan's 1985 Congressional testimony...

Because the effects occupy more than a human generation, there is a tendency to say that they are not our problem. Of course, then they are nobody’s problem, not on my tour of duty, not on my term of office. It’s something for the next century. Let the next century worry about it. But the problem is that there are effects, and the greenhouse effect is one of them which have long time constants.

If you don’t worry about it now, it’s too late later on. And so in this issue, as in so many other issues, we are passing on extremely grave problems for our children when the time to solve the problems, if they can be solved at all, is now.
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The GOAT imo.  No one communicated science better, yet still far to few listened.  Our bill is coming due.  

 
dkp993 said:
They are busy making them for themselves. They are kicking our ### in green energy production. If that doesn’t scare you (the metaphorical “you”) I’m not sure what will.  
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 China’s growing manufacturing dominance has been one of my biggest concerns for 30 years. We make little outside of food now.

 
dkp993 said:
They are busy making them for themselves. They are kicking our ### in green energy production. If that doesn’t scare you (the metaphorical “you”) I’m not sure what will.  
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What concerns me more is they have 60 active nuclear reactors with plans for dozens more over the next 10 years. While we in the US are still leading but do not have nearly as many new reactors planned while old ones are set to have their licenses expire. Meaning by 2030, we could be 3rd in nuclear power production in the world. 

 
FairWarning said:
 China’s growing manufacturing dominance has been one of my biggest concerns for 30 years. We make little outside of food now.
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Sure. But that’s not what I’m pointing out.  They’ve even had the foresight to move toward green at an accelerated rate yet here we are squabbling over bs and using every excuse possible not to lead.  This type of inaction will ultimately be our downfall as a world leader.  

 
Insein said:
What concerns me more is they have 60 active nuclear reactors with plans for dozens more over the next 10 years. While we in the US are still leading but do not have nearly as many new reactors planned while old ones are set to have their licenses expire. Meaning by 2030, we could be 3rd in nuclear power production in the world. 
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For the short term yes I agree. It’s a stop gap we should be leveraging. But long term there are options we need to go full on after yet we are dragging our feet bickering.  

 
dkp993 said:
For the short term yes I agree. It’s a stop gap we should be leveraging. But long term there are options we need to go full on after yet we are dragging our feet bickering.  
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It doesn't help that we want these new technologies but want other countries to invest the infrastructure and accept the pollution created to make them. 

 
Insein said:
It doesn't help that we want these new technologies but want other countries to invest the infrastructure and accept the pollution created to make them. 
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As the technology progresses we can’t bypass good waiting for perfect. We’ve got to move the ball down field, implement then perfect. 

 
dkp993 said:
As the technology progresses we can’t bypass good waiting for perfect. We’ve got to move the ball down field, implement then perfect. 
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I agree. But I wonder how viable solar and wind really are. If they had a sustainable future, you'd think someone would have spent the money to corner the market here to make them. 

 
Insein said:
I agree. But I wonder how viable solar and wind really are. If they had a sustainable future, you'd think someone would have spent the money to corner the market here to make them. 
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Utility companies weld lots of power. They’re flexing some of that here in California as a solar is really starting to eat in to their profits. Not only would that person need to invest the appropriate billions they would need to be able to fight against utility companies and the regulations they’ve in acted. I’m a small government guy, but this is one of the areas in my opinion where the Fed needs to flex.  

 
dkp993 said:
Utility companies weld lots of power. They’re flexing some of that here in California as a solar is really starting to eat in to their profits. Not only would that person need to invest the appropriate billions they would need to be able to fight against utility companies and the regulations they’ve in acted. I’m a small government guy, but this is one of the areas in my opinion where the Fed needs to flex.  
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See I think small government can still win it just will take a bit more work. You need people elected that will repeal the grandfathered stranglehold the utility companies have so the market can decide what's better to have for each person. If it's more cost effective, the newer technology will eventually win. 

 
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