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Coaching Youth Basketball (2 Viewers)

Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
I wasn't thrilled about the team mate doing the too small celebration vs getting back on defense. I know other coaches are more forgiving of stuff like that but for me it would be a coaching point to discuss with that player.
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
OK?
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
I wasn't thrilled about the team mate doing the too small celebration vs getting back on defense. I know other coaches are more forgiving of stuff like that but for me it would be a coaching point to discuss with that player.
I don't think anyone did the too small, but a few were tapping their head ie you just got dunked on. Our transition defense was fine, we try and defend 92 feet when we can.
 
Final round of our u19 Bundesliga qualification today. Top two of a for team group qualify. We carry a 19 point win into the group from the previous round, so theoretically need to win one of two. Close call yesterday, 6'9 kid started the game 5-5 behind the arc. Run and jump turned the ride and win with a 20 point swing.

Poster from one of our 16-year-olds
16 year old going strong to the rim. Love it.
The way kids train plyo these days is insane. The kid he dunked on probably has more bounce (and quicker), he just got caught a step too far behind. He had multiple run downs and pins in the tournament. We got a new transfer, 5'10 doughy/pastey kid who can shoot the lights out. I was joking with the other coaches during a waterbreak that we used always assume the unathletic kids that show up are always snipers. Just I finish saying it, the kid throws one down with two hands on the far basket.
his lazy reaction after the missed shot is the reason he got dunked on in the first place.
I wasn't thrilled about the team mate doing the too small celebration vs getting back on defense. I know other coaches are more forgiving of stuff like that but for me it would be a coaching point to discuss with that player.
I don't think anyone did the too small, but a few were tapping their head ie you just got dunked on. Our transition defense was fine, we try and defend 92 feet when we can.
Head top... yea.... like I said, some coaches are more about that... for me, it is a coaching point. Game clock ticking then play the game.
 
My daughter has been playing summer league JV team which is her first taste of HS ball. She has been very timid and just getting into it. She also is getting back into basketball as she missed her 8th grade year due to a broken arm suffered 15 seconds in the first game. I gave her a few pointers like telling her to be more aggressive and she has a marked improvement in play. She got a steal, took it down with a little cross over move and took it all the way with a nice finish. In the second game she hit a three. She hasn't been getting a ton of minutes which I get from her play but I think she will have an outside shot to make the JV team IF she continues to get more comfortable, loosens up and just plays. She has a nice outside shot and could be a decent off the bench 2 guard.

One question for anyone that has watched girls HS ball... which I have not pretty much ever.... I am trying to figure out if it is just the refs they have had, summer league or if it is the way it is but it really seems that the refs let these girls play. I mean, they give a lot of no calls on legit fouls. It seemed pretty consistent to me and balanced. It has been that way over the 5 games I have watched. It just seems more physical than boys basketball that I have seen.
my experience is that in the summer they let the girls beat the hell out of each other and then when high school season starts everything is a foul to the point of absurdity take that to the bank brohans
 
My daughter has been playing summer league JV team which is her first taste of HS ball. She has been very timid and just getting into it. She also is getting back into basketball as she missed her 8th grade year due to a broken arm suffered 15 seconds in the first game. I gave her a few pointers like telling her to be more aggressive and she has a marked improvement in play. She got a steal, took it down with a little cross over move and took it all the way with a nice finish. In the second game she hit a three. She hasn't been getting a ton of minutes which I get from her play but I think she will have an outside shot to make the JV team IF she continues to get more comfortable, loosens up and just plays. She has a nice outside shot and could be a decent off the bench 2 guard.

One question for anyone that has watched girls HS ball... which I have not pretty much ever.... I am trying to figure out if it is just the refs they have had, summer league or if it is the way it is but it really seems that the refs let these girls play. I mean, they give a lot of no calls on legit fouls. It seemed pretty consistent to me and balanced. It has been that way over the 5 games I have watched. It just seems more physical than boys basketball that I have seen.
my experience is that in the summer they let the girls beat the hell out of each other and then when high school season starts everything is a foul to the point of absurdity take that to the bank brohans
Interesting. It will be interesting to see. They certainly did let them beat each other up during summer.

She finished the summer league season hitting 2 of 3 three pointers and a couple more mid range for a pretty high overall fg% right around (if not at) 50%. She did seem to get more comfortable and stopped being timid. As it stands now, I think she has an outside shot of making the JV team and if not then should be the first team freshman (there are two freshman teams). It will probably be beneficial for her to not make the JV team and get more playing time and develop more, then earn more playing time next year for JV.
 
Agreed. The footwork, speed and offensive flow of soccer really helps with all sports, IMO. It certainly has helped my 12YO get the offensive flow of ice hockey.

Yep, dude is 5'1" going into the 4th grade. I fully expect him to be at eye level with me going into middle school.
How tall are you?

I was always the tallest growing up... very rarely meeting someone my age that was taller. I always thought I was 6'1'' as I was in 8th grade and stopped. Literally always thought this... I think I did grow more and maybe 6'2" or 6'2 1/2. I just found this out this morning. No joke.

So, Thursday I took my older son to the Notre Dame Jr High Football camp. Standing waiting for my son to get some autographs from the coaching staff, one camper was next to me and taller than me. He couldn't be more than 8th grade and would have been roughly an inch or two taller than me. I said something to him about being in 8th and he said he was 6'4 1/2" and I balked at it saying I was 6'1" and he had and inch or two on me. He replied that he had just been at the Dr's appointment and that was the measurement (which I figure with him being that tall that they would take extra care to get a good measurement on him). So, this morning, I tried to measure myself and I am taller than 6'1" for sure. :lmao: Hard to get a real good measurement doing it yourself but no doubt taller than 6'1".

Anyways, yes, I would get him exposed to a bunch of sports and have do multiple sports at least up to Jr High. I really am a proponent for multi sports even if one sport has been signaled out as their love. Others sports help develop and train them as well in ways that doing one can not (soccer being an example, you can not improve footwork as well focusing on basketball as you can taking some time to play soccer). It also helps keep them fresh and away from burnout. I mean, the number of kids who drop sports in HS is tremendous and not an insignificant number were one sport athletes who just tire of their sport. It also helps avoid injury from overuse and wearing down concentrated muscle groups.

I would consider these sports as the best compliments to development in basketball:
- Swim, unmatched for development of strength, conditioning, lung capacity, explosiveness, etc- all with almost no injury risk and no stressing of his joints etc. (at that size, that is a huge plus, at these ages maybe does not notice it but building him up with saving wear and tear on his body is huge). There is different thoughts on competitive swimming assisting in height growth as well so there may or may not be helpful to get the most out of his height- my view is it will certainly not hurt and the decompression of the spine while swimming certainly can't hold him back. Huge advocate for swimming for most athletes but would strongly push you to explore it for him.
- Soccer (as much as I am not a fan of the sport itself), as discussed footwork is unmatched. Develops agility and endurance. Using your body and positioning to protect the ball. Spacing and off ball movement as well.
- Volleyball, the obvious point here is jumping. Plus, it may end up being a good sport for him anyways with his height. Also, agility, explosiveness, hand speed and reflex development.
Totally missed this while we were in Europe.

I'm 5'11", the wife is 5'9". Both sides have height (my dad is 6'2" and father inlaw is 6'1"). We joke that the only reason I'm below 6' is because my mom is 5'1" on a good day!
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
 
Agreed. The footwork, speed and offensive flow of soccer really helps with all sports, IMO. It certainly has helped my 12YO get the offensive flow of ice hockey.

Yep, dude is 5'1" going into the 4th grade. I fully expect him to be at eye level with me going into middle school.
How tall are you?

I was always the tallest growing up... very rarely meeting someone my age that was taller. I always thought I was 6'1'' as I was in 8th grade and stopped. Literally always thought this... I think I did grow more and maybe 6'2" or 6'2 1/2. I just found this out this morning. No joke.

So, Thursday I took my older son to the Notre Dame Jr High Football camp. Standing waiting for my son to get some autographs from the coaching staff, one camper was next to me and taller than me. He couldn't be more than 8th grade and would have been roughly an inch or two taller than me. I said something to him about being in 8th and he said he was 6'4 1/2" and I balked at it saying I was 6'1" and he had and inch or two on me. He replied that he had just been at the Dr's appointment and that was the measurement (which I figure with him being that tall that they would take extra care to get a good measurement on him). So, this morning, I tried to measure myself and I am taller than 6'1" for sure. :lmao: Hard to get a real good measurement doing it yourself but no doubt taller than 6'1".

Anyways, yes, I would get him exposed to a bunch of sports and have do multiple sports at least up to Jr High. I really am a proponent for multi sports even if one sport has been signaled out as their love. Others sports help develop and train them as well in ways that doing one can not (soccer being an example, you can not improve footwork as well focusing on basketball as you can taking some time to play soccer). It also helps keep them fresh and away from burnout. I mean, the number of kids who drop sports in HS is tremendous and not an insignificant number were one sport athletes who just tire of their sport. It also helps avoid injury from overuse and wearing down concentrated muscle groups.

I would consider these sports as the best compliments to development in basketball:
- Swim, unmatched for development of strength, conditioning, lung capacity, explosiveness, etc- all with almost no injury risk and no stressing of his joints etc. (at that size, that is a huge plus, at these ages maybe does not notice it but building him up with saving wear and tear on his body is huge). There is different thoughts on competitive swimming assisting in height growth as well so there may or may not be helpful to get the most out of his height- my view is it will certainly not hurt and the decompression of the spine while swimming certainly can't hold him back. Huge advocate for swimming for most athletes but would strongly push you to explore it for him.
- Soccer (as much as I am not a fan of the sport itself), as discussed footwork is unmatched. Develops agility and endurance. Using your body and positioning to protect the ball. Spacing and off ball movement as well.
- Volleyball, the obvious point here is jumping. Plus, it may end up being a good sport for him anyways with his height. Also, agility, explosiveness, hand speed and reflex development.
Totally missed this while we were in Europe.

I'm 5'11", the wife is 5'9". Both sides have height (my dad is 6'2" and father inlaw is 6'1"). We joke that the only reason I'm below 6' is because my mom is 5'1" on a good day!
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Man... for a rec league, sounds like you are well set up to trounce.
 
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy.

My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.

Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
 
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy.

My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.

Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
Super hard. My biggest goal is try to get them to establish good habits... something I never did. I ate crap and a ton of it as a kid and burned it all off. Never thought about protein or vitamin/minerals, balance eating, etc. I got more focused on it when my daughter broke her arm and was diagnosed with vitamin D deficiency.... and I should have known as she doesn't like milk and not big on other foods that are good sources and being in Chicago area, large parts of the year not spending a ton outside getting sun. After the Dr had her on prescription Vitamin D, I have made sure that she is getting a good amount of that and calcium etc.

My sons have seemed to listened to me as I have tried to explain healthy choices, and why and what matters etc. My son for lunch today grabbed a couple of high protein yogurts, threw them in a bowl with granola and chia seeds and that was his lunch so I see wins like that at a decent frequency.... but they are also kids so they will burn through trash food. My wife gets them some of that high sugar basically no nutrition cereal and they will eat that but at least we get Fairlife milk so they are getting something from that.

Try to get them good nutrition, try to help them learn good habits but then also let them be kids too. Hard for sure.

For conditioning, my boys are in swim which does it. Can not stress how awesome swimming is for conditioning of all sports. My older sons conditioning is clearly superior to most kids his age and I attribute it to swim as the secret sauce there. And not just, we have a pool and swim during summer but competitive swim. Working all muscle groups, with constant movement and resistance. We ended up basically taking the winter season off when my wife's tumor was found but we kept basketball going.... I could see a little decline in my sons conditioning for basketball and a little less explosiveness in his movements.

For my daughter, I was getting her up in the morning and doing workouts for a little stretch but then it was basically a fight every morning and I finally to her that I wasn't going to do that every morning. If she wants to work out then she can work out. She is an incoming Freshman so she needs to learn it on her own... I can't push it. She wants to do volleyball and basketball but she puts zero into it outside of practices. Hopefully she learns.

My older son said he would go to the gym with me when he is able to which is about a month from now. With swim and all the other sports that they do, I don't really push hard for the kids to do much outside in terms of conditioning. My older son plays football, basketball, soccer, volleyball and track (all school) and then swim (club) and my younger one is football, basketball, soccer (likely volleyball this year as that is the first year available and track in 5th grade) plus BJJ and then swim. I do try to get them to do skill development but do not feel I need to push conditioning as they are pretty active anyways and swim is the ace in the sleeve on that anyways.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
 
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy.

My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.

Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
How much time/planning do you usually have for dinners? I'm our chef as well and it constantly feels like I'm a little short on time to prep (like chop stuff). I'm considering using a lot more frozen pre-cut veggies just to make sure they're getting into meals.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
Yup. Prob about a third of this thread has been discussion on that. I am a huge proponent of M2M. Just infinitely easier to go from a M2M to a junk or zone than vice versa. Harder to teach and 'win' at younger ages but much better for long term development and I have found in a league that does tend to play zone- a competitive advantage once the kids get it.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
 
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.got

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy.

My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.

Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
How much time/planning do you usually have for dinners? I'm our chef as well and it constantly feels like I'm a little short on time to prep (like chop stuff). I'm considering using a lot more frozen pre-cut veggies just to make sure they're getting into meals.
I am the NON-Chef of the family. I used to do a dish that my kids loved more than pretty much anything (though I haven't done it much anymore).... it came about when I had to make dinner... and went the tried and true Mac n Cheese but was like "they need more protein" so I added beanless chili to it. Then I was like... they really need some veggies.... so I tried to figure something out and then came up with adding peas to it. It wasn't bad at all. My wife refused to try it (which is why I haven't made it much as she is the primary Chef of the family) but my kids would eat seconds and thirds of hefty portions.

Ok... that is about as much as I can add to that.... I will let you adults discuss in further detail.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
For summer, we combined two teams from school so as to have enough boys for games when kids were doing other sports or vacation etc. My team was use to M2M as that is all we did. The other team, not so much. We have very little practice time as once school ended we lost our access to the school court. It 100% contributed to most of our early losses though we started to win games towards the end. One game, I was held back from work and the wife of the other coach coached the first half as he was held back from work too.... she did a zone and when I walked in almost near balf we were up 12-2..... I took over second half and the game ended 14-12 :oldunsure: lol, I told her I should be fired and we should have her coach from now on. :lmao:
 
Mom has some height and you have a little more in the background. I wonder if he will be like me.... sprout up and then stop and others catch up.

With my kids, I been making sure to supplement their diets with Orgain Kids Protein Shakes (as they were younger) and more Carnation High Protein Breakfast Essentials as they have got older and now a little bit of Premier Protein for my older kids. Of course, trying to get them to have good eating habits and full nutrition as well. My wife is Filipina so her 5'4" isn't helping.

Currently my older son went to the Dr Monday and is 97 percentile for his age. The younger one is above average.... I think in the 60-70 area.

Nutrition is hard. I cook most of our meals, so we end up with dinners that are pretty healthy. Usually a lean protein, a fresh veggie, and a small serving of starch. Breakfast, the kids like muscle milk, so good protein there. Lunch is where it usually falls apart...and honestly, I'm ok with that. I want both kids to eat well, but they will be introduced to junk at some point and I don't want them to become the kids who never had it and go nuts for it once they leave the house. I guess I'm trying to introduce a good balance and not make food the bad guy
My youngest has always been above the 99th percentile curve for height. It seems to be trending back toward the 99th percentile curve lately, though.

Do you do any cardio work with your kids? Both of mine have run off/on with me, but both have a hard time being consistent with it. I know it would help both of mine with their preferred sports (Basketball and Hockey), but I don't want to push them too much.
How much time/planning do you usually have for dinners? I'm our chef as well and it constantly feels like I'm a little short on time to prep (like chop stuff). I'm considering using a lot more frozen pre-cut veggies just to make sure they're getting into meals.
I generally allot 30-45min for dinner preparation. Having good quality knives that are sharp helps. The wife/kids got me a new Japanese chef's knife and a petty knife for father's day and they make a huge difference in veggie prep time. I also tend to use simpler recipes for protein prep that don't require tons of time. Proteins are most often cooked on the stovetop while veggies and starch are roasted in the oven. I also allocate 2 hours on Sunday to mealprep lunches for my wife and I. That tends to be a bit easier, but follows a similar profile of protein, veggie and starch. You'd be surprised at how delicious a roasted turkey tenderloin seasoned with some spice rub seasonings (I love meatchurch rub/seasoning) can be. That works for chicken breast, turkey tenderloin, pork tenderloin, and flank steak. Occasionally I'll get a wild hair and make homemade meatballs and simmer them in marinara sauce. The veggie tends to be whatever comes out of the garden (broccoli, cauliflower, squash, zucchini, etc) or frozen veggies outside of growing season. Those get a bit of seasoning and then straight into the oven for roasting. Starch usually is diced potatoes, again with some seasoning or good brown rice. Occasionally couscous. THere are TONS of helpful blogs out there that discuss meal prep and how to save time and money with it. Good luck!

FYI, frozen veggies aren't perfect, but they are a heck of a lot better than canned or no veggies at all.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
Since you replied with some excuses...

Practice time is irrelevant. A zone before even varsity level HS play is about winning, and does not improve players. Even if only 15 minutes of your practice time was spent on the basic fundamental of defensive stance and slide and between man and basket (like the literal pre-101 level stuff), it would be better for the players. It would be better, in any league, even rec, to lose by 10 but get 2% better at staying with a guy from sheer reps and trying stuff, for every single player involved.

You don't need to properly teach everything. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. You have a compressed 8 weeks and have chosen to use that time not to make anyone better at defense.

That's fine. It's just silly to pretend like it's anything else.

If you don;t want to coach M2M because you have a practice time limitation, it would be better to just spend 100% of time on offensive stuff and let the defense be what it'll be and just hope kids get better with some pointers here and there, but still play man the entire time. The only reason to go zone is to try and win.

Winning is fine. It's fun. It's a rec league. But "protecting weaker defenders" is NOT a developmental mindset. It's a winning mindset, and it comes at the cost of the players' development.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
Since you replied with some excuses...

Practice time is irrelevant. A zone before even varsity level HS play is about winning, and does not improve players. Even if only 15 minutes of your practice time was spent on the basic fundamental of defensive stance and slide and between man and basket (like the literal pre-101 level stuff), it would be better for the players. It would be better, in any league, even rec, to lose by 10 but get 2% better at staying with a guy from sheer reps and trying stuff, for every single player involved.

You don't need to properly teach everything. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. You have a compressed 8 weeks and have chosen to use that time not to make anyone better at defense.

That's fine. It's just silly to pretend like it's anything else.

If you don;t want to coach M2M because you have a practice time limitation, it would be better to just spend 100% of time on offensive stuff and let the defense be what it'll be and just hope kids get better with some pointers here and there, but still play man the entire time. The only reason to go zone is to try and win.

Winning is fine. It's fun. It's a rec league. But "protecting weaker defenders" is NOT a developmental mindset. It's a winning mindset, and it comes at the cost of the players' development.
Respectfully (and I mean that sincerely) your post is 100% hyperbole. Upwards of 90% of this small town rec league won't play beyond rec ball and a good portion won't play organized ball again, ever. When I've committed to teaching M2M at this level, some players will always have trouble figuring out who their guarding leading to straight chaos on the defensive end. Teammates end up having to overhelp and end up learning bad M2M habits. Teaching a zone gives kids a smaller concept to grasp and master. Also, I'm just a dad who played a little basketball in high school and was asked to coach. I'm doing the best I can and right now, the best I can do is teach them some concept of defense that they can understand in the limited practice time I have.

The idea that I only do it to win is straight BS, but you knew that already.
 
First practice for summer rec league is tonight. The lottery went well and we've got a very tall team. My son is 5'1". Another kid who just happened to get placed on our team from our AAU team is 5'1" and we got a kid who's at least 5'3". All 9-10YOs, mind you. The 5'3" kid is super raw and unskilled, but I think he'll do a good job anchoring our 2-3 zone and rebounding. Our ball handlers are smaller, but skilled. My hope is that this will be a confidence booster for my son, who had a tough AAU season, and something to spark that love of the game again. We'll see.
Be careful, 9-10 YO playing zone is like the bat signal to anyone who coaches basketball to remind you (rightly) that they should be playing man. Especially in rec. It's been rehashed enough in the thread, but still find it amusing that youth coaches do it.
LOL. Yeah, we have 4 practices before games start and 9 players of widely varied skill levels that are required to play equal shifts. Teaching solid m2m fundamentals in that kind of compressed season inclusive of summer vacations and whatnot would require 3/4 of my 1 hour per week practice time. I can introduce an attacking 2-3 that protects some of my weaker defenders in much less time leaving more time for offensive fundamentals and skill drills. These compressed 8 weeks seasons are just too short to properly teach m2m fundamentals. Our rec league also does a random lottery/draft before each season, so you don't have continuity with players other than your child (and maybe 1 assistant's child).
Since you replied with some excuses...

Practice time is irrelevant. A zone before even varsity level HS play is about winning, and does not improve players. Even if only 15 minutes of your practice time was spent on the basic fundamental of defensive stance and slide and between man and basket (like the literal pre-101 level stuff), it would be better for the players. It would be better, in any league, even rec, to lose by 10 but get 2% better at staying with a guy from sheer reps and trying stuff, for every single player involved.

You don't need to properly teach everything. Perfect should not be the enemy of good. You have a compressed 8 weeks and have chosen to use that time not to make anyone better at defense.

That's fine. It's just silly to pretend like it's anything else.

If you don;t want to coach M2M because you have a practice time limitation, it would be better to just spend 100% of time on offensive stuff and let the defense be what it'll be and just hope kids get better with some pointers here and there, but still play man the entire time. The only reason to go zone is to try and win.

Winning is fine. It's fun. It's a rec league. But "protecting weaker defenders" is NOT a developmental mindset. It's a winning mindset, and it comes at the cost of the players' development.
Respectfully (and I mean that sincerely) your post is 100% hyperbole. Upwards of 90% of this small town rec league won't play beyond rec ball and a good portion won't play organized ball again, ever. When I've committed to teaching M2M at this level, some players will always have trouble figuring out who their guarding leading to straight chaos on the defensive end. Teammates end up having to overhelp and end up learning bad M2M habits. Teaching a zone gives kids a smaller concept to grasp and master. Also, I'm just a dad who played a little basketball in high school and was asked to coach. I'm doing the best I can and right now, the best I can do is teach them some concept of defense that they can understand in the limited practice time I have.

The idea that I only do it to win is straight BS, but you knew that already.
I disagree. I also mean it with sincere respect. And I've coached every level from 5 year olds to the NBA.

I didn't say you weren't doing the best you could. Just that's it's a truth. Didn't even say you should play M2M. Just that you should be aware of the tradeoffs.

I don't believe it's BS at all. And playing organized ball again has nothing to do with it. In fact, have you ever seen a pickup game in zone? That's even more in favor of why there's no reason to do it.

I'm sure you're doing a great job, and better than some other dad who didn't want to volunteer and whose wife made him do it so someone could.

But I do not think I am exaggerating. I am sharing a truth born of experience, and one that any person who has actually coached basketball as a job would agree with.
 
Us M2M only crowd are a bunch of zealots and can come across strongly at times for sure. I am probably one of the less zealoty of the lot.

I agree, for rec the great majority of the boys playing with not continue basketball for long but some may. At these young ages, you really have very little idea of who and who will not develop or have the passion to continue working towards basketball. When I was a kid, I had some very poor coaching though I didn't know it back then. Looking back, it did slow my development (though it ended up not mattering as I blew my knew out in 9th grade). I am not a professional coach by any means but I am motivated to help each kid I coach to develop as much as possible and learn life lessons through sport. Your experiences and background are different than mine but I have no doubt you are driven to do your best as well.

With my 3rd grade team this year and then the summer league combined team, there is always kids that for whatever reason struggle with the concept of guarding their man. It hurts us for winning as in both the regular season and summer season we lost most of our early games but then as I kept at it (because I believe in it so much and have committed to losing if it takes that to get the kids to learn M2M) we ended up progressing significantly. I could be wrong but I really do not think that the lack of some picking it up hurt the others who were more experienced or otherwise more apt at M2M to pick up any bad habits.

I am assuming it being a rec summer league it will be very short. So was our summer season and we had even less practice. I think it is doable and I personally am committed to doing it no matter what (even with my assistant coaches asking otherwise) so I did it. It might be worth considering.
 
Us M2M only crowd are a bunch of zealots and can come across strongly at times for sure. I am probably one of the less zealoty of the lot.

I agree, for rec the great majority of the boys playing with not continue basketball for long but some may. At these young ages, you really have very little idea of who and who will not develop or have the passion to continue working towards basketball. When I was a kid, I had some very poor coaching though I didn't know it back then. Looking back, it did slow my development (though it ended up not mattering as I blew my knew out in 9th grade). I am not a professional coach by any means but I am motivated to help each kid I coach to develop as much as possible and learn life lessons through sport. Your experiences and background are different than mine but I have no doubt you are driven to do your best as well.

With my 3rd grade team this year and then the summer league combined team, there is always kids that for whatever reason struggle with the concept of guarding their man. It hurts us for winning as in both the regular season and summer season we lost most of our early games but then as I kept at it (because I believe in it so much and have committed to losing if it takes that to get the kids to learn M2M) we ended up progressing significantly. I could be wrong but I really do not think that the lack of some picking it up hurt the others who were more experienced or otherwise more apt at M2M to pick up any bad habits.

I am assuming it being a rec summer league it will be very short. So was our summer season and we had even less practice. I think it is doable and I personally am committed to doing it no matter what (even with my assistant coaches asking otherwise) so I did it. It might be worth considering.
Fair point. My perspective is that the kids who will go on to play more organized ball will play with other coaches and learn other techniques. The kids who will not, should also be given an opportunity to play and try to contribute as much as possible. If I can teach those kids an offense and defense that mitigates their overwhelm, then I'll do so. If I can teach those kids so that they feel that they contribute on both ends of the court, then I have done my job as a rec coach (IMO).
 
FIBA u19 knockouts started today. You can catch the live on YT on the FIBA channel. Son's ex-teammate, Ivan Kharchenkov, left off the roster as he was playing in the DBL playoffs last week. I think he's commited to Arizona. His dad played on the Soviet WC team in 1974
 
Dragging this thread back up for an update:

Our rec team (9-10YO) went 5-1 in the regular season and lost by 4 in the playoff championship game. Incidentally, the team that beat us in the champ game had two rising 5th graders who started for an AAU team. Good coach and really good players. Both teams ended the season with cupcakes and gatorade at midcourt. This season ended up being one of the most fun I've had as a head coach. Good kids who were very coachable. We saw noticeable skill improvements from top to bottom with some big gains in some of the more unexpected players. I love it when that happens! More importantly for me, my son got a good bit of his confidence back and really enjoyed playing. Hopefully he's turned a corner and this will blossom into a love for the game. I'm not sure he'll play travel in the winter, but he'll have flag football to occupy him during the fall.

Not trying to drag out an argument at all, but all 6 teams played some version of a zone defense. None played M2M.
 
Dragging this thread back up for an update:

Our rec team (9-10YO) went 5-1 in the regular season and lost by 4 in the playoff championship game. Incidentally, the team that beat us in the champ game had two rising 5th graders who started for an AAU team. Good coach and really good players. Both teams ended the season with cupcakes and gatorade at midcourt. This season ended up being one of the most fun I've had as a head coach. Good kids who were very coachable. We saw noticeable skill improvements from top to bottom with some big gains in some of the more unexpected players. I love it when that happens! More importantly for me, my son got a good bit of his confidence back and really enjoyed playing. Hopefully he's turned a corner and this will blossom into a love for the game. I'm not sure he'll play travel in the winter, but he'll have flag football to occupy him during the fall.

Not trying to drag out an argument at all, but all 6 teams played some version of a zone defense. None played M2M.
Why would you say it then lol

1. Sounds like an awesome summer! Way to go. Cupcakes and gatorade should be the name of a music album lol.

2. Awesome for your son. I hope mine loves to play. Right now he takes the nerf ball and dunks it and shrieks with joy while i clap and cheer (he's 18 months old lol)

3. To the last line...ok? So none of the teams placed "developing their players" as the #1 priority. That's fine. Nobody said you're not allowed to put winning first. I just wouldn't, personally. I think part of the exact discussion, IIRC, was that too many youth coaches play zone. So this is evidence of...being right that too many youth coaches play zone if our nation's goal was to develop better basketball players? Silly.
 
Dragging this thread back up for an update:

Our rec team (9-10YO) went 5-1 in the regular season and lost by 4 in the playoff championship game. Incidentally, the team that beat us in the champ game had two rising 5th graders who started for an AAU team. Good coach and really good players. Both teams ended the season with cupcakes and gatorade at midcourt. This season ended up being one of the most fun I've had as a head coach. Good kids who were very coachable. We saw noticeable skill improvements from top to bottom with some big gains in some of the more unexpected players. I love it when that happens! More importantly for me, my son got a good bit of his confidence back and really enjoyed playing. Hopefully he's turned a corner and this will blossom into a love for the game. I'm not sure he'll play travel in the winter, but he'll have flag football to occupy him during the fall.

Not trying to drag out an argument at all, but all 6 teams played some version of a zone defense. None played M2M.
Why would you say it then lol

1. Sounds like an awesome summer! Way to go. Cupcakes and gatorade should be the name of a music album lol.

2. Awesome for your son. I hope mine loves to play. Right now he takes the nerf ball and dunks it and shrieks with joy while i clap and cheer (he's 18 months old lol)

3. To the last line...ok? So none of the teams placed "developing their players" as the #1 priority. That's fine. Nobody said you're not allowed to put winning first. I just wouldn't, personally. I think part of the exact discussion, IIRC, was that too many youth coaches play zone. So this is evidence of...being right that too many youth coaches play zone if our nation's goal was to develop better basketball players? Silly.
Touche'. Definitely not trying to bring an argument back. Just wanted to give a data point for a small, rural, rec league.
 
Dragging this thread back up for an update:

Our rec team (9-10YO) went 5-1 in the regular season and lost by 4 in the playoff championship game. Incidentally, the team that beat us in the champ game had two rising 5th graders who started for an AAU team. Good coach and really good players. Both teams ended the season with cupcakes and gatorade at midcourt. This season ended up being one of the most fun I've had as a head coach. Good kids who were very coachable. We saw noticeable skill improvements from top to bottom with some big gains in some of the more unexpected players. I love it when that happens! More importantly for me, my son got a good bit of his confidence back and really enjoyed playing. Hopefully he's turned a corner and this will blossom into a love for the game. I'm not sure he'll play travel in the winter, but he'll have flag football to occupy him during the fall.

Not trying to drag out an argument at all, but all 6 teams played some version of a zone defense. None played M2M.
Why would you say it then lol

1. Sounds like an awesome summer! Way to go. Cupcakes and gatorade should be the name of a music album lol.

2. Awesome for your son. I hope mine loves to play. Right now he takes the nerf ball and dunks it and shrieks with joy while i clap and cheer (he's 18 months old lol)

3. To the last line...ok? So none of the teams placed "developing their players" as the #1 priority. That's fine. Nobody said you're not allowed to put winning first. I just wouldn't, personally. I think part of the exact discussion, IIRC, was that too many youth coaches play zone. So this is evidence of...being right that too many youth coaches play zone if our nation's goal was to develop better basketball players? Silly.
Touche'. Definitely not trying to bring an argument back. Just wanted to give a data point for a small, rural, rec league.
Cool. Data point heard. Confirming that small, rural rec leagues are mostly coached by people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it).

It's the internet so that sounds judgmental, but I am saying it with literally no judgment. Like a robot voice with no emotion. It's just something that is true.
 
Dragging this thread back up for an update:

Our rec team (9-10YO) went 5-1 in the regular season and lost by 4 in the playoff championship game. Incidentally, the team that beat us in the champ game had two rising 5th graders who started for an AAU team. Good coach and really good players. Both teams ended the season with cupcakes and gatorade at midcourt. This season ended up being one of the most fun I've had as a head coach. Good kids who were very coachable. We saw noticeable skill improvements from top to bottom with some big gains in some of the more unexpected players. I love it when that happens! More importantly for me, my son got a good bit of his confidence back and really enjoyed playing. Hopefully he's turned a corner and this will blossom into a love for the game. I'm not sure he'll play travel in the winter, but he'll have flag football to occupy him during the fall.

Not trying to drag out an argument at all, but all 6 teams played some version of a zone defense. None played M2M.
Awesome, glad it was a successful season. Enjoying (much better focus than fun IMO) the season is the prime goal with developing right behind it and sounds like you accomplished both.

In the leagues my sons play in (3rd grade is a developmental league, 4th is that same league plus a catholic school league and 5th on to 8th is the catholic league plus another league that is largely the catholic league plus a few public schools) most teams play zone. Most meaning, it is pretty uncommon to see M2M but as you get into Jr High you see it a little more.

I got push back from my 3rd grade team assistant coaches to go zone instead of M2M as we were getting beat pretty bad early in the season as it takes more effort and time to coach and get the kids to play good M2M. I stuck to it explaining that I was willing to lose games (even more so in a developmental league without standings or playoffs but even if that wasn't the case would still have stuck with it) because it would be for the long term best in development. The kids started picking it up and we started winning some games. Same with summer league as we combined two teams so half of my team was not use to playing M2M as much and it showed. The other HC who was acting as assistant on the summer team kept bringing it up but I would not move from it.

It is just infinitely better for understanding the game and development. Zone defense is not really developing them defensively and on top of that when these kids go to camps and clinics 95% if not higher is all focused on offense. The learning curve to for from zone to M2M is huge but it is super easy to got from M2M to zone or junk.

The funny thing is that in leagues that do have most or all teams playing zone, once your team picks up M2M, it becomes a competitive advantage as the other teams are not use to playing against M2M. The pressure that you can apply can be crushing when they are using to setting up their offense and running against a zone. My son going into 7th has had 5 possible league Championships and ended up with 4 and add in another three tournament championships. This is on three different rosters for the teams. The only commonality between the teams was my son, one other kid who easily is the least skilled kid in all the leagues and M2M.

Most youth coaches go the easy route and the win more games route but I think they are dropping the ball on their kids. I don't run zone. I will introduce a junk defense only when the team has a good understanding of M2M at Jr High level but we barely ever play that even so.
 
people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it)
I think this unintentionally gets at the point those staunchly against anything but M2M aren't willing to consider. I don't share this from a basketball coach perspective, but rather a youth coaches one. I'll let AI do its thing downstream, but the most important element for kids in youth sports is 'fun.' How a good coach does both this and help them develop is variable and depends on the kids he has to work with.


AI Overview

The most important element for kids in youth sports is fun; a study by the Milken Institute School of Public Health at GW found that being a good sport, trying hard, and positive coaching are key factors in making sports enjoyable for kids, while winning is less important. This is crucial because kids cite lack of fun as the top reason for dropping out of sports, according to the study.

Why is fun so important?
  • Intrinsic Motivation:
    When kids find sports enjoyable, they are more likely to be intrinsically motivated to participate, practice, and improve.

  • Reduced Dropout Rates:
    A positive and fun experience reduces the likelihood of kids quitting sports prematurely.

  • Long-Term Engagement:
    If children enjoy sports, they are more likely to continue playing into adulthood, reaping the physical and social benefits.
Beyond fun, other important elements include:
  • Learning and Skill Development:
    .

    Youth sports provide opportunities to learn new skills, develop physical abilities, and improve coordination.

  • Social Skills and Teamwork:
    .

    Team sports foster social interaction, teamwork, cooperation, and communication skills.

  • Life Skills:
    .

    Sports teach valuable life lessons such as discipline, sportsmanship, resilience, and problem-solving.

  • Positive Coaching:
    .

    Coaches who emphasize positive reinforcement, encouragement, and skill development can significantly enhance a child's experience.

  • Healthy Competition:
    .

    While winning isn't everything, healthy competition can be a motivating factor and teach valuable lessons about winning and losing.

  • Safety and Well-being:
    .

    Ensuring a safe environment for young athletes is paramount, including proper training, equipment, and injury prevention
 
people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it)
I think this unintentionally gets at the point those staunchly against anything but M2M aren't willing to consider. I don't share this from a basketball coach perspective, but rather a youth coaches one. I'll let AI do its thing downstream, but the most important element for kids in youth sports is 'fun.' How a good coach does both this and help them develop is variable and depends on the kids he has to work with.


AI Overview

The most important element for kids in youth sports is fun; a study by the Milken Institute School of Public Health at GW found that being a good sport, trying hard, and positive coaching are key factors in making sports enjoyable for kids, while winning is less important. This is crucial because kids cite lack of fun as the top reason for dropping out of sports, according to the study.

Why is fun so important?
  • Intrinsic Motivation:
    When kids find sports enjoyable, they are more likely to be intrinsically motivated to participate, practice, and improve.

  • Reduced Dropout Rates:
    A positive and fun experience reduces the likelihood of kids quitting sports prematurely.

  • Long-Term Engagement:
    If children enjoy sports, they are more likely to continue playing into adulthood, reaping the physical and social benefits.
Beyond fun, other important elements include:
  • Learning and Skill Development:
    .

    Youth sports provide opportunities to learn new skills, develop physical abilities, and improve coordination.

  • Social Skills and Teamwork:
    .

    Team sports foster social interaction, teamwork, cooperation, and communication skills.

  • Life Skills:
    .

    Sports teach valuable life lessons such as discipline, sportsmanship, resilience, and problem-solving.

  • Positive Coaching:
    .

    Coaches who emphasize positive reinforcement, encouragement, and skill development can significantly enhance a child's experience.

  • Healthy Competition:
    .

    While winning isn't everything, healthy competition can be a motivating factor and teach valuable lessons about winning and losing.

  • Safety and Well-being:
    .

    Ensuring a safe environment for young athletes is paramount, including proper training, equipment, and injury prevention
I do not mean any of this as a shot at you but rather a conversation. It is a major thing for me and since you brought it up, I would like to discuss further.

I have never liked the focus of fun in competitive youth sports. It makes my skin crawl to be honest. My focus is on enjoyment. What I try to teach the kids is how to enjoy the sport and how to enjoy all the things that come with it. I believe strongly in this... even more so than M2M defense in youth basketball being superior.

First, I say competitive meaning to exclude introductory levels and kids (or leagues set up for kids like that) that really have no interest in playing at higher/older levels. There is absolutely a place for just having fun. Also, having fun is not verboten and shouldn't be. My position is that it shouldn't be a goal or focus when working with youth that have a desire to be competitive.

Second, aren't having fun and enjoying a sport the same thing? I would say that though there is some similarities, they are very different in terms of approach and what someone can get out of being in sport. Having fun is the end achievement. It really does not assist anything else but the hope is to turn that into a passion for a sport. Enjoyment is something that translates to passion easily and can fuel not only long term competitive involvement to the extent of their ability but also a life long engagement in the sport. The reason why I believe this is that fun is fleeting. It is a very specific feeling that is an immediate and fleeting gratification. The higher and more competitive you go the less fun there is and the more that the things you have to do to be competitive are not fun. Enjoyment is more of an internal motivation and can apply to things that simply are not fun like training, practicing, working out, improving diet, etc.

Why is this important to me? 70% of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13. Only a third of kids that start a sport in HS continue into varsity. Those are significant numbers. Now, granted, there are a lot of reasons why this happens. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this and I certainly do not expect a shift in focus from fun to enjoyment to cure everything. But I do think that there are a number of athletes who stop playing simply because it no longer is fun. And they are right. If their focus has been on having fun then as they age up and play in increasingly higher levels of competition, it is less and less fun. Practices are not fun. Training is not fun. Working out is not fun. Studying the playbook or sport etc is not fun. Changing your diet is not fun. Being coached harder is not fun. Not going out with all your friends because of sport is not fun. Going to bed early and waking up earlier is not fun. However, you can find enjoyment in all of that as well as finding enjoyment in the sport. If you do, then you will persevere and grow and continue in the sport as long as you can- not everyone can go pro but short of the freak athletes, the ones that do have thrived on enjoying the sport (or have been forced by outside motivations that usually are not healthy).

Further than that is what I believe is the most important thing and powerful thing about youth sports which is teaching life lessons. Life isn't about fun. Everything that is worthwhile in life is not fun. It does not mean that you can not have fun along the way but those who focus on fun typically are trainwrecks of people. A focus on enjoyment can translate into all aspects of life to assist someone in having a fulfilled and successful life.
 
people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it)
I think this unintentionally gets at the point those staunchly against anything but M2M aren't willing to consider. I don't share this from a basketball coach perspective, but rather a youth coaches one. I'll let AI do its thing downstream, but the most important element for kids in youth sports is 'fun.' How a good coach does both this and help them develop is variable and depends on the kids he has to work with.
I do not mean any of this as a shot at you but rather a conversation. It is a major thing for me and since you brought it up, I would like to discuss further.

I have never liked the focus of fun in competitive youth sports. It makes my skin crawl to be honest. My focus is on enjoyment. What I try to teach the kids is how to enjoy the sport and how to enjoy all the things that come with it. I believe strongly in this... even more so than M2M defense in youth basketball being superior.

First, I say competitive meaning to exclude introductory levels and kids (or leagues set up for kids like that) that really have no interest in playing at higher/older levels. There is absolutely a place for just having fun. Also, having fun is not verboten and shouldn't be. My position is that it shouldn't be a goal or focus when working with youth that have a desire to be competitive.

Second, aren't having fun and enjoying a sport the same thing? I would say that though there is some similarities, they are very different in terms of approach and what someone can get out of being in sport. Having fun is the end achievement. It really does not assist anything else but the hope is to turn that into a passion for a sport. Enjoyment is something that translates to passion easily and can fuel not only long term competitive involvement to the extent of their ability but also a life long engagement in the sport. The reason why I believe this is that fun is fleeting. It is a very specific feeling that is an immediate and fleeting gratification. The higher and more competitive you go the less fun there is and the more that the things you have to do to be competitive are not fun. Enjoyment is more of an internal motivation and can apply to things that simply are not fun like training, practicing, working out, improving diet, etc.

Why is this important to me? 70% of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13. Only a third of kids that start a sport in HS continue into varsity. Those are significant numbers. Now, granted, there are a lot of reasons why this happens. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this and I certainly do not expect a shift in focus from fun to enjoyment to cure everything. But I do think that there are a number of athletes who stop playing simply because it no longer is fun. And they are right. If their focus has been on having fun then as they age up and play in increasingly higher levels of competition, it is less and less fun. Practices are not fun. Training is not fun. Working out is not fun. Studying the playbook or sport etc is not fun. Changing your diet is not fun. Being coached harder is not fun. Not going out with all your friends because of sport is not fun. Going to bed early and waking up earlier is not fun. However, you can find enjoyment in all of that as well as finding enjoyment in the sport. If you do, then you will persevere and grow and continue in the sport as long as you can- not everyone can go pro but short of the freak athletes, the ones that do have thrived on enjoying the sport (or have been forced by outside motivations that usually are not healthy).

Further than that is what I believe is the most important thing and powerful thing about youth sports which is teaching life lessons. Life isn't about fun. Everything that is worthwhile in life is not fun. It does not mean that you can not have fun along the way but those who focus on fun typically are trainwrecks of people. A focus on enjoyment can translate into all aspects of life to assist someone in having a fulfilled and successful life.
I like your disclaimer and want to echo it. This is just furthering the discussion. I also want to thank Instinctive for saying what he did a few posts up. I realized that the phrase "prioritizing winning" has been triggering me all along.

One thing I hear from a lot of very passionate (and I'm sure very talented) coaches in youth sports talk about player development. Yes, the focus on youth sports, even small town 9-10YO rec leagues, should be development of the athlete. When I hear that said, inevitably it is in reference to developing the talented kids who will play at a higher level. What I don't hear is discussion about developing the kids who most certainly will not play at any higher level than rec. For those kids, fun (not necessarily enjoyment as you define it) is absolutely something that needs to be part of the process. My goal for those kids is to work on their sport skillset and also their life skillset. We focus on listening, sportsmanship, having a good attitude, the concept of being on a team, and so forth. That is my target audience and that is who I coach to. I work with the talented kids that end up on my team as well, but there are relatively few in our league (maybe 6 out of 60 this season). As it pertains to defenses, I honestly think that teaching a zone gives kids (again, look at my target audience) more buy in and ownership of what they are doing without having to have the physical tools necessary to keep a player in front of them in M2M. For me, it's not about winning games. It's about helping the lesser talented kids get accustomed to the game while not being exposed in essentially a 1v1 setting all game. In essence, making the season more 'fun'.
 
people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it)
I think this unintentionally gets at the point those staunchly against anything but M2M aren't willing to consider. I don't share this from a basketball coach perspective, but rather a youth coaches one. I'll let AI do its thing downstream, but the most important element for kids in youth sports is 'fun.' How a good coach does both this and help them develop is variable and depends on the kids he has to work with.
I do not mean any of this as a shot at you but rather a conversation. It is a major thing for me and since you brought it up, I would like to discuss further.

I have never liked the focus of fun in competitive youth sports. It makes my skin crawl to be honest. My focus is on enjoyment. What I try to teach the kids is how to enjoy the sport and how to enjoy all the things that come with it. I believe strongly in this... even more so than M2M defense in youth basketball being superior.

First, I say competitive meaning to exclude introductory levels and kids (or leagues set up for kids like that) that really have no interest in playing at higher/older levels. There is absolutely a place for just having fun. Also, having fun is not verboten and shouldn't be. My position is that it shouldn't be a goal or focus when working with youth that have a desire to be competitive.

Second, aren't having fun and enjoying a sport the same thing? I would say that though there is some similarities, they are very different in terms of approach and what someone can get out of being in sport. Having fun is the end achievement. It really does not assist anything else but the hope is to turn that into a passion for a sport. Enjoyment is something that translates to passion easily and can fuel not only long term competitive involvement to the extent of their ability but also a life long engagement in the sport. The reason why I believe this is that fun is fleeting. It is a very specific feeling that is an immediate and fleeting gratification. The higher and more competitive you go the less fun there is and the more that the things you have to do to be competitive are not fun. Enjoyment is more of an internal motivation and can apply to things that simply are not fun like training, practicing, working out, improving diet, etc.

Why is this important to me? 70% of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13. Only a third of kids that start a sport in HS continue into varsity. Those are significant numbers. Now, granted, there are a lot of reasons why this happens. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this and I certainly do not expect a shift in focus from fun to enjoyment to cure everything. But I do think that there are a number of athletes who stop playing simply because it no longer is fun. And they are right. If their focus has been on having fun then as they age up and play in increasingly higher levels of competition, it is less and less fun. Practices are not fun. Training is not fun. Working out is not fun. Studying the playbook or sport etc is not fun. Changing your diet is not fun. Being coached harder is not fun. Not going out with all your friends because of sport is not fun. Going to bed early and waking up earlier is not fun. However, you can find enjoyment in all of that as well as finding enjoyment in the sport. If you do, then you will persevere and grow and continue in the sport as long as you can- not everyone can go pro but short of the freak athletes, the ones that do have thrived on enjoying the sport (or have been forced by outside motivations that usually are not healthy).

Further than that is what I believe is the most important thing and powerful thing about youth sports which is teaching life lessons. Life isn't about fun. Everything that is worthwhile in life is not fun. It does not mean that you can not have fun along the way but those who focus on fun typically are trainwrecks of people. A focus on enjoyment can translate into all aspects of life to assist someone in having a fulfilled and successful life.
I like your disclaimer and want to echo it. This is just furthering the discussion. I also want to thank Instinctive for saying what he did a few posts up. I realized that the phrase "prioritizing winning" has been triggering me all along.

One thing I hear from a lot of very passionate (and I'm sure very talented) coaches in youth sports talk about player development. Yes, the focus on youth sports, even small town 9-10YO rec leagues, should be development of the athlete. When I hear that said, inevitably it is in reference to developing the talented kids who will play at a higher level. What I don't hear is discussion about developing the kids who most certainly will not play at any higher level than rec. For those kids, fun (not necessarily enjoyment as you define it) is absolutely something that needs to be part of the process. My goal for those kids is to work on their sport skillset and also their life skillset. We focus on listening, sportsmanship, having a good attitude, the concept of being on a team, and so forth. That is my target audience and that is who I coach to. I work with the talented kids that end up on my team as well, but there are relatively few in our league (maybe 6 out of 60 this season). As it pertains to defenses, I honestly think that teaching a zone gives kids (again, look at my target audience) more buy in and ownership of what they are doing without having to have the physical tools necessary to keep a player in front of them in M2M. For me, it's not about winning games. It's about helping the lesser talented kids get accustomed to the game while not being exposed in essentially a 1v1 setting all game. In essence, making the season more 'fun'.
When I talk about development, it is about all the kids in my care for me to try to get them to whatever level they wish to go. I let them decide how far they go (and of course genetics has a say) but in as much as I have any say- I am developing all the kids. There are a lot of years to go from 3rd grade (when I start with the kids mostly outside of some earlier like Church leagues which was less coaching basketball and more controlling chaos) to HS. A lot of growing and changing can and will happen. Uncoordinated kids figure out how to use their bodies. Gifted kids lean on their athleticism and don't learn how a work ethic. A lot can change. A kid in my neighborhood use to run around.... skinny as heck kid that a light breeze could blow over, with glasses, was clearly not very coordinated.... now turned into a built big guy football player. I further take enjoyment out of watching kids improve- no matter where they starting point is and how much they improve. For the most part, my players see huge strides during their seasons (really with one exception where it was consistently the kid putting in the absolute minimum he can... I am convinced that if he could be a team manager he would be happier than actually playing and just likes being a part of the team). I have not yet had a single player not come back the next year after being on my team. Kids have stopped playing that were on other teams but it has not yet happened on my teams. And we play M2M... from 3rd on through Junior High.
 
people who prioritize winning (and possibly fun) over player development (or don't know how to develop if they wanted to prioritize it)
I think this unintentionally gets at the point those staunchly against anything but M2M aren't willing to consider. I don't share this from a basketball coach perspective, but rather a youth coaches one. I'll let AI do its thing downstream, but the most important element for kids in youth sports is 'fun.' How a good coach does both this and help them develop is variable and depends on the kids he has to work with.


AI Overview

The most important element for kids in youth sports is fun; a study by the Milken Institute School of Public Health at GW found that being a good sport, trying hard, and positive coaching are key factors in making sports enjoyable for kids, while winning is less important. This is crucial because kids cite lack of fun as the top reason for dropping out of sports, according to the study.

Why is fun so important?
  • Intrinsic Motivation:
    When kids find sports enjoyable, they are more likely to be intrinsically motivated to participate, practice, and improve.

  • Reduced Dropout Rates:
    A positive and fun experience reduces the likelihood of kids quitting sports prematurely.

  • Long-Term Engagement:
    If children enjoy sports, they are more likely to continue playing into adulthood, reaping the physical and social benefits.
Beyond fun, other important elements include:
  • Learning and Skill Development:
    .

    Youth sports provide opportunities to learn new skills, develop physical abilities, and improve coordination.

  • Social Skills and Teamwork:
    .

    Team sports foster social interaction, teamwork, cooperation, and communication skills.

  • Life Skills:
    .

    Sports teach valuable life lessons such as discipline, sportsmanship, resilience, and problem-solving.

  • Positive Coaching:
    .

    Coaches who emphasize positive reinforcement, encouragement, and skill development can significantly enhance a child's experience.

  • Healthy Competition:
    .

    While winning isn't everything, healthy competition can be a motivating factor and teach valuable lessons about winning and losing.

  • Safety and Well-being:
    .

    Ensuring a safe environment for young athletes is paramount, including proper training, equipment, and injury prevention
I do not mean any of this as a shot at you but rather a conversation. It is a major thing for me and since you brought it up, I would like to discuss further.

I have never liked the focus of fun in competitive youth sports. It makes my skin crawl to be honest. My focus is on enjoyment. What I try to teach the kids is how to enjoy the sport and how to enjoy all the things that come with it. I believe strongly in this... even more so than M2M defense in youth basketball being superior.

First, I say competitive meaning to exclude introductory levels and kids (or leagues set up for kids like that) that really have no interest in playing at higher/older levels. There is absolutely a place for just having fun. Also, having fun is not verboten and shouldn't be. My position is that it shouldn't be a goal or focus when working with youth that have a desire to be competitive.

Second, aren't having fun and enjoying a sport the same thing? I would say that though there is some similarities, they are very different in terms of approach and what someone can get out of being in sport. Having fun is the end achievement. It really does not assist anything else but the hope is to turn that into a passion for a sport. Enjoyment is something that translates to passion easily and can fuel not only long term competitive involvement to the extent of their ability but also a life long engagement in the sport. The reason why I believe this is that fun is fleeting. It is a very specific feeling that is an immediate and fleeting gratification. The higher and more competitive you go the less fun there is and the more that the things you have to do to be competitive are not fun. Enjoyment is more of an internal motivation and can apply to things that simply are not fun like training, practicing, working out, improving diet, etc.

Why is this important to me? 70% of kids drop out of organized sports by age 13. Only a third of kids that start a sport in HS continue into varsity. Those are significant numbers. Now, granted, there are a lot of reasons why this happens. Now, there are a lot of reasons for this and I certainly do not expect a shift in focus from fun to enjoyment to cure everything. But I do think that there are a number of athletes who stop playing simply because it no longer is fun. And they are right. If their focus has been on having fun then as they age up and play in increasingly higher levels of competition, it is less and less fun. Practices are not fun. Training is not fun. Working out is not fun. Studying the playbook or sport etc is not fun. Changing your diet is not fun. Being coached harder is not fun. Not going out with all your friends because of sport is not fun. Going to bed early and waking up earlier is not fun. However, you can find enjoyment in all of that as well as finding enjoyment in the sport. If you do, then you will persevere and grow and continue in the sport as long as you can- not everyone can go pro but short of the freak athletes, the ones that do have thrived on enjoying the sport (or have been forced by outside motivations that usually are not healthy).

Further than that is what I believe is the most important thing and powerful thing about youth sports which is teaching life lessons. Life isn't about fun. Everything that is worthwhile in life is not fun. It does not mean that you can not have fun along the way but those who focus on fun typically are trainwrecks of people. A focus on enjoyment can translate into all aspects of life to assist someone in having a fulfilled and successful life.
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
 
One thing I hear from a lot of very passionate (and I'm sure very talented) coaches in youth sports talk about player development. Yes, the focus on youth sports, even small town 9-10YO rec leagues, should be development of the athlete. When I hear that said, inevitably it is in reference to developing the talented kids who will play at a higher level. What I don't hear is discussion about developing the kids who most certainly will not play at any higher level than rec. For those kids, fun (not necessarily enjoyment as you define it) is absolutely something that needs to be part of the process. My goal for those kids is to work on their sport skillset and also their life skillset. We focus on listening, sportsmanship, having a good attitude, the concept of being on a team, and so forth. That is my target audience and that is who I coach to. I work with the talented kids that end up on my team as well, but there are relatively few in our league (maybe 6 out of 60 this season). As it pertains to defenses, I honestly think that teaching a zone gives kids (again, look at my target audience) more buy in and ownership of what they are doing without having to have the physical tools necessary to keep a player in front of them in M2M. For me, it's not about winning games. It's about helping the lesser talented kids get accustomed to the game while not being exposed in essentially a 1v1 setting all game. In essence, making the season more 'fun'.
:goodposting:

Keep up the good work. 'Fun' has many different applications in youth sports. I think the best coaches adapt to where their kids are and that's how I've modeled my approach.

I was really taken aback amidst various interactions throughout the summer with the now 7th graders on our hoops team last year - 2nd year working with these guys. They were apparently pretty bad as 3rd and 4th graders, but made leaps & bounds progress as 5th graders, then won our division as 6th graders (the other team finished 2nd) and qualified for the city gold division playoff. We thought that was it as these teams usually break up when they get to middle school as the better athletes shift towards their school teams. We knew we'd have enough to field a team, just figured we'd be consolidating our 2 teams down to 1. We've learned through the summer that every kid is coming back. This is unprecedented at our school. It's a group with a wide range of talent - 2 of them are future varsity starters, probably 1 other, another 2 will with better work ethic, and 2 more will at least be role players. The other 8 may only have 2 more seasons in them, but as long as they stick around there is a chance the light bulb turns on.

And it's no more complicated than because the kids have fun playing together. I hope we're able to cultivate a similar environment with our now 4th grade team.
 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
You can blame Joe's board or input what I suggested, AI has the response. Its feedback won't align with what you're sharing though.
 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
You can blame Joe's board or input what I suggested, AI has the response. Its feedback won't align with what you're sharing though.
AI can't explain your reaction to my post.
 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
You can blame Joe's board or input what I suggested, AI has the response. Its feedback won't align with what you're sharing though.
AI can't explain your reaction to my post.
It's not MY reaction. It's objective feedback. Joe's board just won't allow for a clean copy and paste. If clicking the below won't work you could try inputting...the exact same words I wrote in the last 2 posts, but your response gives the impression you're not interested in objective feedback that doesn't align with your bias.

 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
I think the fundamental difference is target audience. From my perspective as a dad-coach in a small town rec league (coed 9-10), my target audience is athletically a good bit different than the (amazing sounding) Catholic league you and your boys are active in. I expect that the level of competition even at the 3rd grade level is quite a bit higher. I can also tell you that over 1/2 of my team from this summer will likely not play in the winter league. It's just a different target audience. I think Mac's perspective (and don't let me put words in your mouth, @MAC_32 ) is that a blanket statement of "coaches who teach zones at this level prioritize winning" is somewhat tone deaf to a myriad of leagues and competition levels out there. I'll follow that fairly pointed statement up with Instinctive's disclaimer that my tone was not in any way intended to be harsh or pointed.
 
AI is not behaving well this time (10000 character limit :shrug:) so I'll just say input 'why is youth sports involvement important.' There's a laundry list of reasons why that translate into developing better humans. I think you should consider opening your mind beyond your biases.
What about what I wrote has you even stating that?

The most important part of sport is how you can teach and instill life lessons. You really think my focus on enjoyment over fun limits that? I don't understand your position here.
I think the fundamental difference is target audience. From my perspective as a dad-coach in a small town rec league (coed 9-10), my target audience is athletically a good bit different than the (amazing sounding) Catholic league you and your boys are active in. I expect that the level of competition even at the 3rd grade level is quite a bit higher. I can also tell you that over 1/2 of my team from this summer will likely not play in the winter league. It's just a different target audience. I think Mac's perspective (and don't let me put words in your mouth, @MAC_32 ) is that a blanket statement of "coaches who teach zones at this level prioritize winning" is somewhat tone deaf to a myriad of leagues and competition levels out there. I'll follow that fairly pointed statement up with Instinctive's disclaimer that my tone was not in any way intended to be harsh or pointed.
:)

There's more nuance in everything I've said than it feels like Mac gives it credit for. This hilarious "I asked AI and want to copy paste it in full because that just be right" is also somewhere between disingenuous and not understanding what AI tools are good at (but thats a whole other tangent). I don't think he's genuinely trying to have a useful discussion (you clearly have been!) so I'm not engaging. The target audience point is super important. People are just talking past each other now.

The two most simple things that are true:

1. Man is absolutely better than zone for development of every player at every age (at least through college), regardless of entering skill level
2. Development may not be, and does not have to be, the ultimate or highest or only priority

A coach at any level should simply decide what their goal is, and then act accordingly. The thing that bothers me is the "well I do prioritize development!" that some people seem to say. It's like...ok, I'm sure you do. But you clearly don't prioritize it most. And that's ok. But have some self awareness. (The general "you" here not a specific person. Like the royal "we.")
 
There's more nuance in everything I've said than it feels like Mac gives it credit for. This hilarious "I asked AI and want to copy paste it in full because that just be right" is also somewhere between disingenuous and not understanding what AI tools are good at (but thats a whole other tangent)
It's actually exactly what it should be used for. It's not a be-all end-all, it's a reference that saves one time researching and typing out ~90some% of the same thing. The issue here is it's a message some don't want to read.
 
I think Mac's perspective (and don't let me put words in your mouth, @MAC_32 ) is that a blanket statement of "coaches who teach zones at this level prioritize winning" is somewhat tone deaf to a myriad of leagues and competition levels out there.
That's certainly part of it, but I think (hope?) my point becomes clearer by clarifying my approach is from a human development perspective; not necessarily sport specific. There's a time to implement the 'not fun' part of sport competition preparation, and that time is variable; it depends on the audience.

I think about our recently graduated 8th grade class. Their experience grades 3-6 is common - coaching was geared toward player development. Those that came in with a baseline skill level and the drive (err, parents) to get better progressed. Those that didn't were left behind while they were just trying to figure out how to maintain a dribble (some hyperbole) and frequently played the minimum required in games as a result. When they got to 7th grade those that had been developed split to their school specific team, leaving 8 behind to form 1 team. They were brow beaten all season long, didn't win a single game, every game likely ended in a running clock...but they had fun. Sure, the games weren't as they got slaughtered weekly, but practices were in large part because of their coaching. There was ~15 mins or so of skill development then they adapted, they've worked with these kids in other sports and know how to get the most out of them. Before last summer I never saw them out at the local courts in the neighborhood, but that year? Several times. Then despite not winning a game their experience was so they convinced 2 of their other friends to return as 8th graders - they left due to the former coaching. And due to that experience as 7th graders, they started getting better. I couldn't tell you details, I was coaching 2 teams myself, but they won a few games early on then got on a streak heading into the tournament. They qualified for the silver bracket and eventually worked their way towards winning the whole damn thing - hell of a final too. These guys were scoring single digits and couldn't beat a basic press a year ago and now they're putting up 40+ per in large part because of their own press. Now, none of these kids are going to keep playing ball in high school, but the one-offs in which I saw them on the courts last summer became a frequent occurrence this summer.

I've had beers with those coaches in various audiences during track season and of course the 'what if their experience as 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th graders had been different' was a routine subject. When I talk about human development and it depends on the audience, this case demonstrates exactly what I'm talking about.
 
Ok... I guess we need to ask AI for objective facts. Below is objective fact. I guess I win.... right? I mean, this is how it works I guess.

That’s a really thoughtful question—you’re hitting on one of the biggest reasons kids either stick with or quit sports.


Here’s the key distinction:


  • “Fun” is often short-term, surface-level enjoyment. It might mean laughing with teammates, silly moments in practice, or enjoying the game when it’s easy. If a sport stops feeling “fun” in this sense—because of hard practices, competitiveness, or pressure—some kids walk away.
  • “Enjoyment of the sport” is deeper. It comes from appreciating growth, challenge, teamwork, and mastering skills. Athletes who learn to find enjoyment in working hard, improving, and being part of something bigger than themselves are more likely to stick with it, even when it isn’t always “fun.”

Research supports this:​


  • Studies in youth sport psychology show that intrinsic motivation (enjoyment of learning, improving, and competing) is the strongest predictor of long-term participation.
  • Kids who only associate sports with “fun” in the playful sense often quit when the demands rise.
  • But kids who connect with the deeper enjoyment of sport—challenge, relationships, purpose—are more resilient when the “fun” moments are fewer.

The balance matters:​


  • If coaches/parents make sports all work and no joy, kids burn out.
  • If it’s all about fun with no challenge, kids don’t develop pride or long-term motivation.

👉 The sweet spot is helping athletes see that while not every drill, game, or season will be “fun,” there’s still joy in the journey—from mastering a skill, competing with teammates, and building character.
 
It's not MY reaction. It's objective feedback. Joe's board just won't allow for a clean copy and paste. If clicking the below won't work you could try inputting...the exact same words I wrote in the last 2 posts, but your response gives the impression you're not interested in objective feedback that doesn't align with your bias.

I am interested in a conversation. I can do AI all day long.

You responded to me talking about developing better humans as if I am not focused on that and then talked about and continue to talk about my bias. Then when I ask about it you throw your hands up in the air and say "AI said... sorry, I can't post it" That does not make for much of a conversation... or at least a good one.
 
You responded to me talking about developing better humans as if I am not focused on that and then talked about and continue to talk about my bias. Then when I ask about it you throw your hands up in the air and say "AI said... sorry, I can't post it" That does not make for much of a conversation... or at least a good one.
That's not at all what I said, but I can't read for others.

Youth sports involvement is important to human development because it provides numerous benefits for children's physical, mental, and social development, while also fostering important life skills contributing to a child's overall well-being and future success - and what's the #1 way to ensure sustained involvement? The kids are having 'fun.'
 

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