Coaching Youth Sports - Crazy ### Parents (5 Viewers)

[Bull Dozier]

That's about it. I let my assistant coach do the coaching with my own son. He hears me enough at home and when we work out together when our team is not practicing.

I learned this too late in my coaching career.  It wasn't until I had a really good co-coach, and we each had a good relationship with each others kids that we were able to do this.

 

[Todem]

Not sure if this would work for anyone here, but if you have your own kid on the team and need to make sure the rest of the team understands that you mean business about things, have a "pre-planned" chewing out of your own kid in front of everyone.  I told my son ahead of time that I was going to do this, and why I was doing it.  He understood.  When it happened, I didn't go off too much, but was firm about it.  He simply responded with "sorry.  won't happen again."  The look on the other kids face was exactly what I was looking for.  Wanted them to know I meant business (and the bonus of showing them that I don't favor my kid simply because he is my kid).

Now, this obviously might not work for everyone.  But, my kid was pretty good at self motivation, so I never had to push him.  It helped that he was one of the better kids on the team, so chewing him out when he was "slacking" also set a tone for everyone.

Have done this before! And it can be highly effective. Of course this is not for everyone. Every kid is different. My son understood as well. And like your kid he is one of the best players on the team and a hard worker.

 

[Gally]

I am surprised the league even allows curve balls at that age.  Too good of a chance of injuries.

Curve balls in themselves do not cause injuries.  You can find studies on both sides of this coin.  The real problem is throwing them improperly and over using them.  There is nothing wrong with teaching and mixing in a few curve balls starting around 12 yrs old.  The problem is most see how well they work then rely on them too much to the point they get overuse injuries and/or don't throw them properly.  That is when injuries start hitting. 

Learning how/when to throw multiple pitches is a big part of learning how to pitch.  Don't overuse and learn properly and you will fine.

 

[nirad3]

My son is 12 now, and has played soccer since he was 5. I played my whole life, but I have never coached my kids because I know how I am, and I didn't want my competitiveness to sour their experience.

Anyway, when he was about 8, he came to me and said: "Dad, you don't have to tell me what to do when you are cheering for me."

And he was right. I am the type of guy who cheers loudly for his kids, but I can't help myself in trying to "direct" things on a soccer field. But since then, it taught me a valuable lesson - that kids need to learn this stuff by themselves sometimes.

And with your daughter, maybe she appreciates that you are there to be a coach, but she may be at that age where dad doesn't need to be so boisterous and always doing the cheering. 

dude i'm right there with ya, i don't know how i'm gonna contain myself as kid(s) get older and keep playing soccer... or basketball for that matter... i'm gonna be a mess   

 

[Bull Dozier]

Curve balls in themselves do not cause injuries.  You can find studies on both sides of this coin.  The real problem is throwing them improperly and over using them.  There is nothing wrong with teaching and mixing in a few curve balls starting around 12 yrs old.  The problem is most see how well they work then rely on them too much to the point they get overuse injuries and/or don't throw them properly.  That is when injuries start hitting. 

Learning how/when to throw multiple pitches is a big part of learning how to pitch.  Don't overuse and learn properly and you will fine.

Just wanted to confirm I have read this as well re: curve balls.  One study I saw said a curve ball places less stress on the elbow than a fastball.  

 

[Keerock]

100% agree that tournaments youth sports can be ruined by the adults.  If nothing else, I think that is the main point of this thread; parents with the wrong impression of their kids, coaches with the wrong motivations, and board members/directors that are either lazy or biased, are 99% of what is wrong with youth sports.  It almost never the kids participating.

FYP

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Just wanted to confirm I have read this as well re: curve balls.  One study I saw said a curve ball places less stress on the elbow than a fastball.  

I'm not expert and can't link to any definitive studies anywhere, but from what I saw during my son's years of youth travel ball, I would advise just working on the 2-seam fastball, 4-seam fastball and the change-up during their youth career.  The only difference among those pitches is the way the ball is held, but that alone yields enough of a variety of movement for youth travel ball.

 

[Gally]

I'm not expert and can't link to any definitive studies anywhere, but from what I saw during my son's years of youth travel ball, I would advise just working on the 2-seam fastball, 4-seam fastball and the change-up during their youth career.  The only difference among those pitches is the way the ball is held, but that alone yields enough of a variety of movement for youth travel ball.

The bottom line with any of this is that moderation and rest are key to having the best chance of limiting injuries.  Some change-ups put a lot of stress on the arm/shoulder/elbow and can be worse than a properly thrown curve ball.  You can find studies that support every side of every pitch being better/worse than other pitches.  Overuse of anything is the big issue.  Overuse is more than just game day use.  It's not getting sufficient recovery time over the course of a year.  You should not be throwing 12 months a year.  Your muscles need a break for recovery. 

 

[Charlie Steiner]

The bottom line with any of this is that moderation and rest are key to having the best chance of limiting injuries.  Some change-ups put a lot of stress on the arm/shoulder/elbow and can be worse than a properly thrown curve ball.  You can find studies that support every side of every pitch being better/worse than other pitches.  Overuse of anything is the big issue.  Overuse is more than just game day use.  It's not getting sufficient recovery time over the course of a year.  You should not be throwing 12 months a year.  Your muscles need a break for recovery. 

I second your point about rest, but I was just referring the main point of the discussion, which I thought was more about curveballs specifically as opposed to general arm overuse. Again, I'm no expert, but what I was told about the three basic pitches is that the only thing that changes is how the ball is held, which to me would reduce added stress by eliminating the need to add extra movement of the wrist/elbow to create ball movement. I just think that keeping the motion simple in and of itself is a better approach than messing with curveballs at all if it requires different arm/elbow/wrist movement than what they do for the 2 seam, 4 seam and change up.

 

[Bull Dozier]

I'm not expert and can't link to any definitive studies anywhere, but from what I saw during my son's years of youth travel ball, I would advise just working on the 2-seam fastball, 4-seam fastball and the change-up during their youth career.  The only difference among those pitches is the way the ball is held, but that alone yields enough of a variety of movement for youth travel ball.

Its been a long time since I cought pitchers of that age, so I'm not saying it as a definitive fact.  But, at the 12ish age, I didn't see a lot of kids throw hard enough to actually get much movement on their fastball with just different grips.  I think that is a rare thing, since there are numerous pro pitchers that don't get much movement on their fastballs.  Change-up yes, I would agree with.  Kids at the early ages should be learning control, and changing speeds before they get concerns with curveballs.  But, I don't think curveballs are the axis of evil they have been painted as for a while.

 

[Gally]

I second your point about rest, but I was just referring the main point of the discussion, which I thought was more about curveballs specifically as opposed to general arm overuse. Again, I'm no expert, but what I was told about the three basic pitches is that the only thing that changes is how the ball is held, which to me would reduce added stress by eliminating the need to add extra movement of the wrist/elbow to create ball movement. I just think that keeping the motion simple in and of itself is a better approach than messing with curveballs at all if it requires different arm/elbow/wrist movement than what they do for the 2 seam, 4 seam and change up.

The point I was making on topic was that curveballs by themselves are not the problem and to learn how to pitch you must learn how to mix pitches and curveballs are part of that growth.  The problem with curveballs is overuse (just like all pitching) so the two situations are linked together.

I agree that younger pitchers need to be able to hit their spots and change speeds (while continuing to hit their spots) but learning a curve ball and using it sparingly is part of that process.  The idea is you need to learn how to throw all your pitches with the same arm slot/movement because that will benefit you most as you get older and face more sophisticated hitters.  As kids reach 12 yrs old and up, there seems to be an increase in skill that warrants mixing in other looks to batters so they start learning how to "pitch".  Moderate everything and you have a better chance of staying injury free (I just think the topics are too intertwined to separate out pitch choice without addressing use).

 

[Charlie Steiner]

Its been a long time since I cought pitchers of that age, so I'm not saying it as a definitive fact.  But, at the 12ish age, I didn't see a lot of kids throw hard enough to actually get much movement on their fastball with just different grips.  I think that is a rare thing, since there are numerous pro pitchers that don't get much movement on their fastballs.  Change-up yes, I would agree with.  Kids at the early ages should be learning control, and changing speeds before they get concerns with curveballs.  But, I don't think curveballs are the axis of evil they have been painted as for a while.

The 'ace' of my son's travel team was a lefty, which wasn't what made him most effective; it was his arm slot.  His motion looked more like slinging the ball than throwing it, but it was done at an angle that make it look different to batters than what they were used to.  His velocity peaked when he was about 13, yet he remained effective through HS and is now pitching for a traditionally strong DIII team and coming off a season which saw him pitch to a ~1.00 ERA. 

The curve ball is an interesting thing at the younger ages; it's like the holy grail of pitches but it's more myth than reality.  The parents (mom) of my son's best friend at that age were obsessed with turning him into a pitcher.  They took him to an instructor starting around age 8 or 9, going 2-3 times a week, yet he would freeze up against live batters.  Around age 11 or 12, they learned about some type of curveball that was supposed to be easy on the arm and would be an effective pitch.  When I heard from coaches/dads who knew the game, they told me that kind of pitch was pretty much a waste of time and they wouldn't use it once they got older. Ultimately, I think it just comes down to winning the genetic lottery and short of that just being smart and cautious.

 

[Gally]

Its been a long time since I cought pitchers of that age, so I'm not saying it as a definitive fact.  But, at the 12ish age, I didn't see a lot of kids throw hard enough to actually get much movement on their fastball with just different grips.  I think that is a rare thing, since there are numerous pro pitchers that don't get much movement on their fastballs.  Change-up yes, I would agree with.  Kids at the early ages should be learning control, and changing speeds before they get concerns with curveballs.  But, I don't think curveballs are the axis of evil they have been painted as for a while.

Its a weird thing but speed isn't necessarily required to get movement from different grips.  A lot of times its arm slot and just pressure points of the fingers when they release the ball.  It isn't anything the kid has learned to do and is just their natural motion/release that makes a ball move.  My hardest throwing kid has no movement on his pitches where a different pitcher that throws slower has quite a bit of movement on the two seamer.  As Charlie Steiner mentioned, winning the genetic lottery helps because when it is just the natural throwing motion/release that gets the movement you are ahead of the game. 

 

[Mookie]

So Many Cargo Shorts

 

[Jayrod]

So Many Cargo Shorts

And a pair of jorts and a guy with a ZZ Top beard!

 

[Kraft...]

Basketball season starting soon, in my experience I find basketball coaches to be the most obnoxious. I've never coached tackle football though so those could be worse. 

 

[Bull Dozier]

Basketball season starting soon, in my experience I find basketball coaches to be the most obnoxious. I've never coached tackle football though so those could be worse. 

Take it to the Crazy ### Coaches thread, this one is for complaining about the parents. 

Basketball parents are horrible though. I attribute a lot of it to being stuck in a gym vs being able to be outside. 

 

[Kraft...]

Take it to the Crazy ### Coaches thread, this one is for complaining about the parents. 

Basketball parents are horrible though. I attribute a lot of it to being stuck in a gym vs being able to be outside. 

Yeah meant to say Parents, awful