I believe the bolded to be the case. In addition, each kid will have a slightly different arm slot/release point/stress point for every pitch so it does vary from kid to kid. Teaching a kid the proper way to throw the pitch and to work on mechanics will be beneficial no matter what age it gets taught. The key is to limit the use of it in competitive/stressful situations that could lead towards undue stress to the elbow. I don't see a problem with teaching an 11/12 year old the curveball but don't use it much in games. A couple of times a game is plenty to start to develop the pitch and as the player ages and continues development you can work in more quantity.
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Coaching Youth Sports - Crazy ### Parents (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ray Karpis
- Start date
Tau837
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
team loses 20 - 5. coach takes it well:
https://twitter.com/ICTFC_MFL/status/886654166218620928
Post-match reaction: John Robertson
Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager John Robertson reflects on his side's thumping defeat at the hands of Inverness Caledonian Thistle Kids, conceding twenty goals in the process.
https://twitter.com/ICTFC_MFL/status/886654166218620928
Post-match reaction: John Robertson
Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager John Robertson reflects on his side's thumping defeat at the hands of Inverness Caledonian Thistle Kids, conceding twenty goals in the process.
glvsav37
Footballguy
So I may have done a d!ck parent move this weekend. IDK, thoughts? (sorry if this is long)
We signed my 11 year old daughter up for a rec league basketball. I don't know anything about the sport, but she expressed interest in it and at 11 years old she's already 5'11" so why not.
The league was already 2-3 games into the season, but this one team had an open roster spot so they put her on it. Go to game one, 6-7 kids show up, our team is not all that good, they get thumped, but she enjoys it. Game 2 is father's day. Coach sends out an email saying he can't make it and could a parent step in? So we go and only 4 kids show up and no parent is interested in working the sideline, so of course i volunteer (again, I don't know the sport at all). We lose. 2 games later coach sends an email that he's going to be on vacation for 2 weeks and needs a parent to step up...guess who does...me. 5 kids show this time and we actually get a win (1st one of the season 5 or so games in). 2nd week, 6 kids and a loss but in it the whole game up to the last 5 mins. This last week, no communication from the coach, and he is supposed toy be back, but he's a no show and we only have 4 kids. Other coach is a #### and plays the whole game 5 on 4...all while he has a full bench of 5 kids. We lose, but again, we are within a basket all game and even leading at times despite being a man down.
These kids were dead after the game and I was so pissed. So I sent this email to the team.
The coach replied just to me after a few hours and apologized, but blamed the league, claiming he told them he count coach b/c of too many commitments but they sort of forced him into it.
And the other actually thought I was the coach...even writing his name as the opening to her email, even though my email address is my 1st name (keith@XXXXXXX.com) and not the same as the actual coach's name.
So was I being a d!ck parent? If there is one thing I can't stand is players who just don't show up for their team. It may be personal, but I also play sports and am the goalie for my hockey team. If I just blow a game off, then no one plays.
edit to add: this is a local arena, 1-hour long BB game 1x per week. Not a travel or super long game.
We signed my 11 year old daughter up for a rec league basketball. I don't know anything about the sport, but she expressed interest in it and at 11 years old she's already 5'11" so why not.
The league was already 2-3 games into the season, but this one team had an open roster spot so they put her on it. Go to game one, 6-7 kids show up, our team is not all that good, they get thumped, but she enjoys it. Game 2 is father's day. Coach sends out an email saying he can't make it and could a parent step in? So we go and only 4 kids show up and no parent is interested in working the sideline, so of course i volunteer (again, I don't know the sport at all). We lose. 2 games later coach sends an email that he's going to be on vacation for 2 weeks and needs a parent to step up...guess who does...me. 5 kids show this time and we actually get a win (1st one of the season 5 or so games in). 2nd week, 6 kids and a loss but in it the whole game up to the last 5 mins. This last week, no communication from the coach, and he is supposed toy be back, but he's a no show and we only have 4 kids. Other coach is a #### and plays the whole game 5 on 4...all while he has a full bench of 5 kids. We lose, but again, we are within a basket all game and even leading at times despite being a man down.
These kids were dead after the game and I was so pissed. So I sent this email to the team.
The coach replied just to me after a few hours and apologized, but blamed the league, claiming he told them he count coach b/c of too many commitments but they sort of forced him into it.
I got 2 angry parent replies so far. One I replied back to her b/c her kid was one of them that did show up and work hard, and then after that she became my BFF agreeing with every point i made.
And the other actually thought I was the coach...even writing his name as the opening to her email, even though my email address is my 1st name (keith@XXXXXXX.com) and not the same as the actual coach's name.
So was I being a d!ck parent? If there is one thing I can't stand is players who just don't show up for their team. It may be personal, but I also play sports and am the goalie for my hockey team. If I just blow a game off, then no one plays.
edit to add: this is a local arena, 1-hour long BB game 1x per week. Not a travel or super long game.
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Galileo
Footballguy
Kids not showing up/being committed has always been one of my pet peeves as well. Can't hold it against the kids though as parents are calling the shots. It is a shame. We've got some similar issues with our travel baseball program. The travel league is going to ask parents to sign a "commitment" letter next season. Hopefully that will send a strong message and make parents re-think their decisions on attendance. On a travel team with limited roster spots it is a big issue. Those spots could be filled with kids you know will be there. I am not sure what you can do about a rec league as the approach to those is much more casual. I understand your frustration though. And for the record, I do not think what you did was a d!ck move. I see it as a needed wake up call to other parents, but you probably could have done it without the cussing though.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Agree with scooter that your intention was good, but the execution was poor. As you were reading the story, I knew exactly where it was going with the original coach being forced into it. I have seen that many times in rec ball.
The message to the team (where's the committment!) was a little over the top for rec ball. This is pretty much what you get there. Not all the time, but rec is a lottery. Sometimes you win and get a good group of kids, a good group of parents, and a good coach. But, most of the time you are missing 1, 2 or all three of those things.
If your daughter loves the game and gets good at it (heck, you can't teach height), get her into traveling. Granted, that environment has its own issues and frustrations, but kids and coaches not showing up usually won't be the issue.
Galileo
Footballguy
My 14u travel baseball team lost in the league semi-finals last week. We had 4 players not come to the game. Sadly, in the group of 4 were all 3 of the kids who saw time a catcher this year and 2 of our top 3 bats. One went to Cooperstown with his family for his younger brother's tournament. One left for a two week summer camp. One went on a family vacation. The fourth was volunteering at a local Safety Town program. But I get your point, and agree, that this is more prevalent in a rec program.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Ya, agree that baseball is the worst of the sports with attendance issues. Summer vacations get in the way more than vacations with any other sport. Fall and winter travel sports don't have near the same amount of issues from what I've seen.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
We went to Beach Blast in Wildwood NJ this past weekend, 70+ beach soccer fields and a couple hundred teams ranging from U8 through adult. Maybe it is the beach atmosphere but was really impressed with the behavior all weekend I witnessed. At least in our games and a few others I watched before or after ours no real grumbling from parents or coaches. The refs were definitely no non-sense as well, we had a call go against us and the opposing coach was still complaining and jawing at the ref even though he got the call. As the kid was about to take the PK (all penalties in this format result in a direct kick PK from the spot of the foul) the ref blew the whistle and walked over to him and from what our coach told us later said to calm down or he was tossed that was his one warning for the weekend.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Yeah, maybe not the tone I would have taken, but I still enjoyed reading it. 
Youth sports can be so awesome or so frustrating. Not a lot of middle ground, IMO.
Youth sports can be so awesome or so frustrating. Not a lot of middle ground, IMO.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
At least those are somewhat legitimate excuses (other then maybe the Safety Town Program, no idea what that is), sounds like glvsav37's players just don't show up and there is no communication. That said I am a big believer that when you make a commitment to a team you try to be there. I understand the catcher delimma, on our in-house team I coach I had 3 kids that caught. We have attendance alerts that go out several days before games that you click and let the coach know if you are going to be there. One game all three are to be there so my main catcher had been asking to pitch and we had back to back games that week so I figured I would let him pitch that night and have the other two catch. 45 minutes before the game as I am leaving my house I get a text from catcher B's mom, a friend had asked him to go to a AAA game that night so he wasn't coming. Ok as we loosen up I tell my main catcher he can still pitch but might be limited to a couple innings because he may need to catch some. Sure enough Catcher C never shows up, he is always late but just flat doesn't show. So now I need to either ruin this kids night who did everything we asked or experiment at catcher. Asked if anyone else had caught and one kid had the year before in 8U coach pitch. Put him back there and warned the ump it was an experiment. Ended up only letting the kid pitch one inning the kid was that bad behind the plate. I did get to make it up to the other kid and he got in some other games pitching so it worked out.
glvsav37
Footballguy
appreciate the feedback...I try not to get worked up over kids sports, but seeing these kids so in these game but lose in the last few mins b/c they are just dead killed me....we are talking 10/11U
I'll admit the tone was prob off but i wrote in out of frustration and i know thats not the best time to send something like that. lol
I'll admit the tone was prob off but i wrote in out of frustration and i know thats not the best time to send something like that. lol
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Thanks, I was never a soccer fan growing up but have become one watching them play. Best part is we are a very small school district (my sons class is like 110 kids) and all our sports programs are community based but he was lucky to be in a class that has a core group of very athletic kids and they all play baseball, soccer and basketball together so for their age their communication and trust of each other is really cool. He's adopted so his athletic ability has nothing to do with me either...lol.
Boston
Footballguy
There are two issues here...one is attendance and unfortunately when it comes to rec there is not much you can do about it which sucks...unfortunately this stuff comes with the turf with rec programs in 2017...the other is communication...if people are not showing up without telling you that is absolutely inexcusable...it takes literally two seconds to text/email/call a Coach to say you can't make it...to not do so it totally disrespectful to the Coach and unacceptable...in those cases you should reach out to those parents (not in a group manner) and get a reason as to what happened...they need to be put on the spot with this because they need to understand their time is not more valuable then yours...
glvsav37
Footballguy
actually the funny part is that i'm not the coach. I'm a parent who was thrust into coaching 1/2 the season b/c our coach has been AWOL and no other parent would help out—I know nothing about the game, so i can't even help these kids other then keep them motivated and cal time outs. They do make it easier on me though w/o any subs to worry about lol.
Galileo
Footballguy
Legitimate or not, they are problematic. I am not debating legitimacy. In the past we only had 11 on our roster. This year we expanded and carried 13. Fortunately, we still had 9 to play, but it was a sub par lineup we had to field at a critical time. For one of the 9, it was his first game back from a concussion. We weren't certain we would have him. It really sucks to be missing your top catchers.
Side note...Safety Town is a community safety program for 5-6 yr olds. They are required to participate before enrolling in the city schools. Police coordinate with school officials and middle/high school kids volunteer to assist with small groups. It is a worthy program, but the program runs over several weeks with morning, afternoon and evening time slots. My own son is volunteering this week.
I coach a travel 11U baseball team and we put out a schedule at the beginning of the year and ask parents to commit to the tournaments they are available and let us know what weekends they are not available. Then we book tournaments based on summer vacations and schedules as the parents advised they could make. We also don't schedule a tournament every weekend so we give time off for vacations etc. We haven't had too much of an issue with people missing expectantly. If there is good communication ahead of time usually travel ball goes good with participants. Rec ball is a completely different story.
Galileo
Footballguy
Everything was communicated as soon as the league scheduling was completed prior to the season (March). In this case we were dealing with the league playoffs, not a tournament (tourney dates were also communicated prior to season). The range of dates for the playoffs were known before the season, but specific dates are not known that early as it depends on who makes the playoffs and and who has home field advantage. In year's past we would finish up prior to the 4th of July. This year, things ended up later which wasn't expected, but still known in March. In fact, I cancelled my family's planned getaway for a long weekend following the 4th when I found out the playoff dates.
We aren't in a league. We just play tournaments so it is a bit easier to adjust as things get going. I do agree in your situation that if you commit to playing with that structure you need to make sure you are there regardless of what happens. I have done the same (cancelling plans) if things outside your control change to make sure we met our commitments.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
There's obviously a difference between a no-cut rec league team (which glvsal37's daughter joined 2-3 games into the season and there's a reluctant volunteer coach) and a try-out travel club parents pay $2k+ to join. If the former, you expect to have kids with multiple interests and a lower level of commitment. With the latter, you can rightfully be pissed off if the scheduling is disorganized, the coach misses games and the kids are unreliable. Rec leagues serve a purpose and are great for what they are, but you can expect some frustration with the level of commitment.
General Malaise
Footballguy
The $$$ spent differ drastically for both. I'm aghast at what my sister pays for competitive soccer, uniform costs and the travel involved. Other parents get pissed if her son misses a game. It's nuts but they are paying a lot for this.CletiusMaximus said:
Rec soccer has been perfect for our family; from cost to return on cost. I had 3 kids play for me that hated their competitive soccer experience. We were a good rec team and had a ton of fun. I'm going to miss this team and cherish my time as their coach.
glvsav37
Footballguy
right..and I get that its rec league and there is not NBA scouts hanging out in the stands. Plus people have lives and in the summer here in the north east where we don't get good weather al year, people want to be out. So either don't sign your kid up for the summer or show up.
My men's hockey team is in a competitive enough adult league, and we know in the summer, guys are up front that they are not playing. Normally we partner up with another team in the league and pull together a full roster for that season.
My problem stems that it was the same 4-5 kids and they were literally dying out there. I'm not a basketball fan, but now that I watch them i see how much running is involved (I mean i kinda knew but i don't watch it). There is one kid who is really overweight and I was worried about him collapsing on me. As it is, my daughter has juvenile arthritis in her knees and ankles, so i'm constantly keeping an eye on her level of discomfort or not. Again, I get it, its rec league, we will move on after this season with 1 more game left. Just thought i'd share given the topic. Appreciate the conversation
My men's hockey team is in a competitive enough adult league, and we know in the summer, guys are up front that they are not playing. Normally we partner up with another team in the league and pull together a full roster for that season.
My problem stems that it was the same 4-5 kids and they were literally dying out there. I'm not a basketball fan, but now that I watch them i see how much running is involved (I mean i kinda knew but i don't watch it). There is one kid who is really overweight and I was worried about him collapsing on me. As it is, my daughter has juvenile arthritis in her knees and ankles, so i'm constantly keeping an eye on her level of discomfort or not. Again, I get it, its rec league, we will move on after this season with 1 more game left. Just thought i'd share given the topic. Appreciate the conversation
dino259
Footballguy
I never played soccer, was never exposed to soccer, was the typical soccer is boring person until I started putting some peanuts on games and getting into some of the world cup games. Similar to hockey once you figure out that yeah there isn't much scoring but there is constant action and setting up plays to score is pretty interesting and you need to take advantage of every opportunities. My youngest played rec U7/8 soccer last year. They begged for coaches. Even though I have coached basketball, baseball, and flag football, I didn't want to do soccer because I wanted him to have someone who knew what they were doing. They played 4 v 4 with no goalie (I didn't even know that as kept asking if he wanted to play goalie). I was going to help manage substitutions and anything else needed but didn't want to be in charge. He ended up on a great team with a bunch of kids from his basketball team. He loved it and took to it really well. He has the advantage of being a bigger kid and used to keeping up with his older competitive brother. I think he did learn stuff.
This year for U9 his option was either to stay in Rec which was about $200 plus jerseys or academy which was $500 plus jerseys. Academy has one of the foreign coaches helping out. It is just ridiculous it needs to be that much for either program. Crazy. He went with Rec so he could also do flag football. They sent 2 emails so far begging for coaches. They threaten they can't play without coaches.
Again I don't want to be in charge. I learned some from his previous season but I want to be able to have the freedom to help coach both his flag football team and his brother's flag football team.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Let me ask you this. You're 80 years old and looking back at your life. You stumble upon this moment in your son's life with soccer and can picture two scenarios: one where you didn't step up to coach and he never played again or one where you did step up to coach and got a front row seat to the action which not only strengthened your bond, not only enhanced your enjoyment of the sport but exposed you to regular access of the kids who will be his friends as well as their parents. Which would you regret more at 80 looking back?
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General Malaise
Footballguy
You're not wrong at all. I'd merely advise you to avoid some of the language and tenor of your email to parents. That puts people on the defensive and makes them judge you without really knowing you. Email can be horribly impersonal and taken way out of context, especially if you resort to swear words. But you are absolutely right to harbor those thoughts. That wasn't fair to you or those 4 kids at all.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
So a story for crazy parents. Daughter's softball travel team just ended their season and is getting ready to move up to 14u. Have a parent's meeting, parent's of all seven of the girls that have to move up are in, set time for tryouts for the 4 or 5 other girls we need to have a team. Ok. Get call today 2 of the parents move their kids to other teams over this weekend. Coach decided to just disband the team. Partly because the two that left have been with him for 6 years. I get you want to move but be an adult and tell us all your leaving? Don't lie to our faces and make the rest of us mess the try outs for all the good teams and instead now we all have to scramble for teams . Pretty crazy as the 6 other girls have been together for at least 4 years and the head coach and all the other parents have gotten along great and at least acted like friends. Rough way to go out.
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Ned
Footballguy
Start searching Youtube for U9-U10 soccer coaching/training. You'll find a ton of resources that you'll be able to learn from and be able to pass on at practice.
There's also a really good thread on here where @Righetti jumped into coaching soccer. https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/746910-coaching-youth-travel-soccer-i-dont-know-anything-about-soccer/#comment-19370558
glvsav37
Footballguy
its funny, we are moving my daughter to an all girls league that the arena is stating after this season is over. While I know absolutely zero about the sport of basketball, I've really enjoyed coaching her team when the coach as AWOL. And I can see she enjoyed having me there. I'm seriously considering asking if this new league needs coaches. kinda exactly for the reason you listed, looking back at their youth and being a bigger part of it (even though I'm still a very big part of it already)
I already assist coach my son's hockey team, but thats my sport. I'd have a lot of learning to do in a very short time if I decide to do this.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Never surprised by uninformed parents making irrational decisions, best is when they blow up about it on Facebook or Twitter. Here is one that just happened this past week, so for soccer last year we played as a 2006 team under the new rules although we only had four fall 2006 kids, the rest were spring 2007 but they are in the same grade and have played together since moving up to the travel team. So this year because the 2005 team moves up to 11 v 11 and some of the 2005 kids are now playing Middle School soccer and don't want to play the club level as well they were short kids. So the club decides they need 6 more kids for the 2005 team, they move up the four kids with fall 2006 birthdays, this happens to include the starting Center Mid, Sweeper and Goalie from last years team that won the league championship plus a backup goalie/defender. Then they had evals and selected two additional kids (the Striker from the previous years team and one utility type player). Well of course one mom who likely has no idea four of the kids moved up had no choice because they were 2006 birthdays goes ballistic on Facebook and starts with the "my son deserves to have made it and it is all about being part of the in crowd and on and on and on". Her son is actually a good player and if picking off their play last year I would say of the two 2007's picked I would have taken him over the second, that said maybe he didn't have a great eval and the other kid did. And here is the kicker the team these boys are moving up to stunk last year, they were like 2-7 on the year while the team the kids that aren't moving up is going to be stacked with a good number of returning kids from last years team plus some really good kids moving up and going to get to play at the 2007 age group (basically U11 for a second year), they'll likely contend for a league title again while the other team will be better with the core group that moved up they will still likely be a .500 team at best because these kids are going to be two grades lower then some of the kids they are playing now.
If you respond you look like a heel if you say nothing they look correct. We've had this many times in baseball and as an officer/board member I've found it is best to say nothing, if someone asks explain the decision making process one on one. But as just a parent in this case I feel like I should comment and set the record straight.
If you respond you look like a heel if you say nothing they look correct. We've had this many times in baseball and as an officer/board member I've found it is best to say nothing, if someone asks explain the decision making process one on one. But as just a parent in this case I feel like I should comment and set the record straight.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Had a grand old time last night officiating 6th grade basketball rec leagues. 5 out of the 6 games were easy and smooth. But, the 6th game....
At one point in the first half, I stopped the game to tell the entire group of people in the stands that they were there to cheer for the kids not help us officiate and that we had it under control. Things settled down a bit, but one coach was particularly obnoxious the whole game and finally earned a technical in the 4th quarter. After I called the T, he yelled across the gym to the guy who runs the league and said he needed to talk to him after the game (not sure if that actually happened, but whatever..guy is a retired ref and would have my back 99.9999% of the time).
My favorite part was after the game. We sit across from the stands at the scorer's table between games and we had 2 visitors cross the floor to talk to us after this particular game. The first was a guy who just wanted to tell us he thought we did a great job and he doesn't know how we handle all of those people yelling at us like that. I thank him and said, "I don't actually handle it all that well". I get mad and can't hide it and I was pretty fed up by the end of this particular game. Apparently I looked pissed off enough that the other parent who came to talk to us felt he needed to tell me that it looked like my emotions affected the way I called the game. He was super polite (almost annoyingly so), but it was a total passive aggressive move where he tried to look like he was just giving some friendly advice when he was really just saying he thought I made bad calls against his team and did so on purpose because I was mad.
And I've reffed for about 8 years now. I've called bad games and done a poor job and I've had really bad partners that called bad games. This was none of that. We did a good job and were actually very consistent. Both teams got upset on occasion, but the other coach handled himself very well, even when he didn't agree. Both sets of fans were bad, though. Lots of very loud dads felt the need to chime in on almost every play. It was ridiculous and the entire focus of the gym became less about the kids playing the game and more about the calls we did or didn't make. My only regrets are that I didn't shut the coach down sooner and that I didn't tell that 2nd parent that the only person that needed a lecture was his son's coach. I honestly would never let my son play for that guy, that's how bad he was.
At one point in the first half, I stopped the game to tell the entire group of people in the stands that they were there to cheer for the kids not help us officiate and that we had it under control. Things settled down a bit, but one coach was particularly obnoxious the whole game and finally earned a technical in the 4th quarter. After I called the T, he yelled across the gym to the guy who runs the league and said he needed to talk to him after the game (not sure if that actually happened, but whatever..guy is a retired ref and would have my back 99.9999% of the time).
My favorite part was after the game. We sit across from the stands at the scorer's table between games and we had 2 visitors cross the floor to talk to us after this particular game. The first was a guy who just wanted to tell us he thought we did a great job and he doesn't know how we handle all of those people yelling at us like that. I thank him and said, "I don't actually handle it all that well". I get mad and can't hide it and I was pretty fed up by the end of this particular game. Apparently I looked pissed off enough that the other parent who came to talk to us felt he needed to tell me that it looked like my emotions affected the way I called the game. He was super polite (almost annoyingly so), but it was a total passive aggressive move where he tried to look like he was just giving some friendly advice when he was really just saying he thought I made bad calls against his team and did so on purpose because I was mad.
And I've reffed for about 8 years now. I've called bad games and done a poor job and I've had really bad partners that called bad games. This was none of that. We did a good job and were actually very consistent. Both teams got upset on occasion, but the other coach handled himself very well, even when he didn't agree. Both sets of fans were bad, though. Lots of very loud dads felt the need to chime in on almost every play. It was ridiculous and the entire focus of the gym became less about the kids playing the game and more about the calls we did or didn't make. My only regrets are that I didn't shut the coach down sooner and that I didn't tell that 2nd parent that the only person that needed a lecture was his son's coach. I honestly would never let my son play for that guy, that's how bad he was.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
I think you guys are jumping the gun a bit. Dino didn't say the only reason he didn't want to step up is because he didn't know enough about soccer. He also wants the ability to help coach flag football and his other child's team. Normally, I would say yes step up and do it, but he also is concerned that it is done the right way.
Start searching Youtube for U9-U10 soccer coaching/training. You'll find a ton of resources that you'll be able to learn from and be able to pass on at practice.
There's also a really good thread on here where @Righetti jumped into coaching soccer. https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/746910-coaching-youth-travel-soccer-i-dont-know-anything-about-soccer/#comment-19370558
I've been in those shoes and hesitated before about that as well. I finally had enough of rotten coaches and learned on the job. I played all of about three weeks of basketball in high school (long story), but I taught myself some and learned from other coaches a lot. I've turned myself into a decent coach, but it was at the expense of not being the greatest coach at all times for the kids I was coaching. If dino has a concern there, I think that is valid to cause hesitation, especially if he is also concerned with wanting to coach his other kids as well (I've done that in the past and it is difficult).
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
We have had exactly 2 league games (double header Friday) and 5 tournament games this weekend. So we are 3 days into games this year and our first parent complaint email about playing time. We only have 11 girls and didn’t cut anyone. Naturally, the girl in question is not only the worst player on the team, but also a miserable person. The kind of girl that instantly instills a negative attitude no matter the situation. FWIW, we are talking about 14u traveling girls softball. As an added bonus, the parents have not been to any of the games. I also stated at the parent meeting that the first contact should be from the player if they have any issues. These girls are 4 months from high school and need to advocate for themselves. If after that conversation they are not satisfied, I’ll talk with the parents.
Of course, I’d like to tell him to F-off and suggest he volunteer his time coaching, but that’s generally frowned upon. Sooooo, what’s the play here?
I should add, we bat the entire lineup and she has played about 60% of the time in the field. We do have many girls that never sit.
Of course, I’d like to tell him to F-off and suggest he volunteer his time coaching, but that’s generally frowned upon. Sooooo, what’s the play here?
I should add, we bat the entire lineup and she has played about 60% of the time in the field. We do have many girls that never sit.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Agreed. No winning this most likely.
Not sure if I shared my story from this past basketball season. I'll try to be brief. I had a kid on my team who had a single dad. Normally I am sympathetic to these situations, but he walks around acting like his kids are gods gift to basketball. While they are very athletic and have potential, they haven't played much organized basketball. Dad doesn't care much about getting the kids to practice so they are rarely there. They'll miss weeks at a time without communication to the coach. I had a conversation with dad early in the seaon that he needed to be at practice or he wouldn't play. Changed for a while, but then he stopped coming again. Missed two straight weeks (two practices a week) and the first day of a two day tournament. No communication. Kid shows up day 2 for one game. I told him he hadn't been at practice so he wouldn't be playing much. Played him a few minutes each half (more than I would for other kids, but the kid is a great kid despite his dad). Dad then sends me an irate email that week saying it was unfair to bench the kid just because dad wasn't able to get him to practice.
some parents just don't get it. Don't let them suck your energy. Have one conversation then tell them if they don't like the answer they can talk to the director. 
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
My wife said a lot of the moms in the stands were already complaining about her when the final out was made with her jogging ...and of course not sliding, into second after another girl singled to CF. Many of the parents know her from hockey and last year's softball.
Given your reffing background, I have a question for you. In your opinion, what's the appropriate way for a coach to address the ref on a call he doesn't agree with. I ask out of all sincerity b/c I'm a very passionate coach, and I tell the kids not to ever complain to a ref, let us know if you're seeing something and the coaches will talk to the ref.
I know that like in any sport, the refs probably get 99% of the calls right, but it's the 1% that gets called wrong that people hone in on. And I know that a lot of times refs are reffing different leagues with different rules, so there's a challenge in keeping that stuff straight.....but the kids know the rules too and while I'm teaching them that like it or not, the refs are the final answer, sometimes there is the need to approach the ref to either hear his side of the call or at least bring something to his attention.
Thanks....I know it's a thankless job.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
Interested in Jayrod's answer. I have my own perspective as a coach of what I've seen as effective and what I haven't, but I'll wait for his response first.
Jayrod
Footballguy
It depends on the sport, the level of play and the way the game has gone to that point. My best advice is pick your spots. If a coach is arguing about everything from the beginning, I tune them out real quick. If I know a coach is arguing out of hope rather than knowledge (as in a play there is no way they could have seen), they have no credibility. If you are very certain you are right and especially if there are repeated offenses, then by all means, bring it to their attention.
As a general rule, the best way is to ask a question. Every ref is (or should be) taught to answer questions from coaches as part of their job. Also, you can explain what you are seeing that is different from what is being called. Dead ball is usually the best time, but that isn't always easy to pull off.
Something like, "What did you see on that play?" or "What did my player do wrong there?" can simply be conversation starters. Then you could point out, "it looked to me like he is moving under my shooter" or "I saw him take 3 steps from here." As long as you approach them respectfully and are willing to at least listen, you have a chance to get their attention to something.
If you argue and whine and are disrespectful, it will usually get you nowhere and sometimes backfire if you get the wrong ref (some guys are vengeful).
All in all, it is really a feel and an art form. Some coaches are great at it and some coaches are universally tuned out from the tip. For the most part, refs are there to do a job the best they know how.
Bull Dozier
Footballguy
This is what I was going to post as what I find most effective as well. Sometimes I'm playing dumb, and sometimes I am just dumb and not sure of a rule or interpretation. But, asking questions I've found to be far more effective. Refs far more often will respond when a question is asked, rather than told they made a wrong call in my experience. I coached for several years with a very loud voice who everyone in the gym could hear. He always thought he was good at dancing that line between making his point, and turning the refs off. I thought he often went over the line, so when I coach myself, I try to steer clear of that line.
While I have less direct evidene, I also believe it is effective when you support the calls of the refs. I've asked questions (ie, it looked like my player was straight up, where was the foul?) Whe explained, I said "OK, I missed that" acknowleding their call. Also, I have coached kids that overreact to refs calls. Instead of letting it slide and have the refs think I agree or support that response, I will tell the kid "yes, that was a travel. Stop moving both feet before you dribble!" trying to let the refs know I'm not there to argue every call blindly for my teams sake.
Thanks. I really appreciate it. I try to do this as well, but I know I don't do it 100% of the time
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UncleZen
Footballguy
On my teams, that would get a player benched immediately for the next game. I don't care if it's simple ground ball to the infield, players should always play hard. As far as playtime goes, I make it clear at the beginning that it's my decision and my decision alone. If you are unhappy, I generally don't care but I will discuss with the parent any time other than right before or after games. The discussion is focused on what a player needs to improve on to get more play time. With our younger teams, we carried less kids so that was rarely an issue. The older they get, the more we had to carry to ensure we always had enough since the kids always had a lot going on. Never fails though that certain games we would have everyone there with no spots to get them all in.
My wife said a lot of the moms in the stands were already complaining about her when the final out was made with her jogging ...and of course not sliding, into second after another girl singled to CF. Many of the parents know her from hockey and last year's softball.
UncleZen
Footballguy
100% agree. I rarely ever argued calls and if it's strictly a judgement call, don't bother. If I think I saw something that the ump may have missed because of an angle, I will politely ask what he saw and ask if he can get some help from another ump who may have had a different angle. It always gets hard when you a particularly bad umpire but as long as he's bad both ways, you deal with it.
I refereed soccer all the way from the u littles when i started out to some of the highest levels here in the US. Plenty of stories to share but I would say that after my first year or so I could not even hear the noise form the sidelines anymore. I was focused on managing the 22 players in front of me on the field.
glvsav37
Footballguy
agreed.
I always keep the mindset that the view from my vantage point—in hockey, dodging players, sticks and pucks and looking around bodies at full speed—is a lot different then the view from up high in the stands overlooking the whole ice. So you may be right, i may have missed something, but come down to my level and see what I see and guarantee you will change your view.
Todem
Footballguy
We got back into coaching baseball after 1.5 years off. After my son came back from Cooperstown we decided we wanted to find a travel team closer to home. We had been commuting an extra 500-600 miles a month (4 days a week) for the team he was on. The team was very solid. Good coaching. It was simply a matter of logistics. The extra time was needed for school work...not driving back and forth.
Low and behold a local team in my town was going through some post Copperstown turmoil. I was asked if I could take 5-6 kids and merge them with another team and be the head coach. I knew most of the kids and families. All good people, all good kids. I said ok.
It has been a blast. Our fall 2017 season ended with a AA title. This team was not ready for AAA/Majors as a unit and I felt I had to really get these boys to buy into my culture. They did. But more importantly their parents did too. When everyone buys in, you have something good going.
Spring 2018 we stepped up our competition and went 18-11-2. We lost in the quarter finals of our playoffs, but we had a great season. Now we are preparing for our grand finale as a 13U team and heading to Orlando to play in the AAU Grand Nationals at Disney's Wide World Of Sports. My son played in that tournament as a 10U player. It is a great, but grueling tournament. 7 game guarantee. And it will be Africa hot June 23-30th.
We are losing 5 kids to high school ball once we are done. We already are having workouts with potential new players. And are moving up to 14U for the fall. I also was asked to coach my sons Middle School team this past spring. Now in Dade and Broward county there is no baseball teams in public schools. Only in private and religious schools. This is a parent driven "club" team with the city's blessing.
The roster was 23 kids. Made up of three 6th graders eleven 7th graders and nine 8th graders. So you can imagine the parent chatter on playing time. But here is the rub. I do not answer nor field any parent questions about playing time. It is clearly explained at the very beginning of the season that this is a high school preparatory team. High School teams have large rosters. Your boys need to start understanding that it is all about the team, your role and also in some cases...waiting your turn. If they have a question they can ask their kid.
The season went amazing. The team has been around for 4 years and we were the first one to have an undefeated season. I was able to get playing time for each and every player over the course of the season. They bought into our culture. And winning was the by product.
So it's been really good so far since I got back into coaching. I have one more year left with my son before he embarks on his high school career. So I am trying to enjoy this as much as I can.
There are good stories out there in youth baseball among all the horror stories.
Low and behold a local team in my town was going through some post Copperstown turmoil. I was asked if I could take 5-6 kids and merge them with another team and be the head coach. I knew most of the kids and families. All good people, all good kids. I said ok.
It has been a blast. Our fall 2017 season ended with a AA title. This team was not ready for AAA/Majors as a unit and I felt I had to really get these boys to buy into my culture. They did. But more importantly their parents did too. When everyone buys in, you have something good going.
Spring 2018 we stepped up our competition and went 18-11-2. We lost in the quarter finals of our playoffs, but we had a great season. Now we are preparing for our grand finale as a 13U team and heading to Orlando to play in the AAU Grand Nationals at Disney's Wide World Of Sports. My son played in that tournament as a 10U player. It is a great, but grueling tournament. 7 game guarantee. And it will be Africa hot June 23-30th.
We are losing 5 kids to high school ball once we are done. We already are having workouts with potential new players. And are moving up to 14U for the fall. I also was asked to coach my sons Middle School team this past spring. Now in Dade and Broward county there is no baseball teams in public schools. Only in private and religious schools. This is a parent driven "club" team with the city's blessing.
The roster was 23 kids. Made up of three 6th graders eleven 7th graders and nine 8th graders. So you can imagine the parent chatter on playing time. But here is the rub. I do not answer nor field any parent questions about playing time. It is clearly explained at the very beginning of the season that this is a high school preparatory team. High School teams have large rosters. Your boys need to start understanding that it is all about the team, your role and also in some cases...waiting your turn. If they have a question they can ask their kid.
The season went amazing. The team has been around for 4 years and we were the first one to have an undefeated season. I was able to get playing time for each and every player over the course of the season. They bought into our culture. And winning was the by product.
So it's been really good so far since I got back into coaching. I have one more year left with my son before he embarks on his high school career. So I am trying to enjoy this as much as I can.
There are good stories out there in youth baseball among all the horror stories.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
I call both football (American) and basketball. There are a lot of differences between those two sports and in football, it also depends on the position you are officiating. In a basketball game, you have to deal with the coaches as they are often times standing right next to you or literally talking into your ear from 2 feet away. Fans aren't much further and sometimes are almost impossible to ignore.
In football, on the sidelines you hear even more from the coach than a basketball game and you can't get away from them as often. However, the positions in the middle of the field are much like described in soccer above and unless a coach is calling out to you specifically, you typically don't respond. However, football has a lot of "dead ball" time where it is easier to have conversations between every play if needed.
