Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Paul Allen vs. a legendary and very old Rooney
Seattle vs. historic Pitt
Who's gonna get the calls?
Seattle vs. historic Pitt
Who's gonna get the calls?
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*** Complain about the officials thread *** (1 Viewer)
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And working for ESPN automatically makes you an expert.
dynastyguru32
Footballguy
I will give you that. Pittsburgh did make the two big TD plays and that is what won the game for them. But don't take away from the Seahawks playing an overall better game than the Steelers. HAsselback I feel played a great game. Other than the interception he made some great passes many of which were dropped by the receivers. Alexander had 95 yards on only 20 carries. For the steelers being such a great run defense I think he did pretty dam good averaging over 4.5 yards per carry.Other than the two long td plays the defense played pretty damn good as well. I think they played better than any one gave them credit for. I think that the play of Ben and the rest of the steeler offense had just as much to do with the Seahawks good defense as to the steelers not playing their A game.
As far as the bad calls by the ref's, I think most of you steelers fans would be doing the same as the Seahawks fans are today if the tables were turned. Seahawks fans have all the right to complain about the bad reffing just like Joey Porter did when they played Indy. I can forget about the DJax intereference call because even though it was a tickytack call and would only be called one out of 20 times it was pass intereference. The Big Ben Td still bothers me though because the line judge was coming in with the 4th down sign but when ben rolled the ball over the line he switched it to a td. The ref needed to stick with his first assumption and let the instant replay overrule his call if it was a td. I feel that Cower would have elected to get the FG because it was the end of the half and to go into halftime with no points on the board and to have a possible big stop on 4th down would be devastating.
The other call that really got me was the holding call on the Stevens reception on the 2 yard line. There is not one person out there that can say that they saw a hold on the replay.(Unless you are drinking the Steelers koolaid too much) This to me was the momentum breaker in the game because they would have had the ball 1st and goal from the two and most likely would have scored a td and went ahead 17 - 14. The randle-el td to ward never would have happened. For that matter if they had not called the bogus illegal block by Hasselback on the interception they most likely would have not had the ward td catch.
This being said I am glad that Bus was able to retire with a superbowl ring.
ArcticEdge
Footballguy
I'm gonna have to give ya, a big yes on that. It is his job.....And working for ESPN automatically makes you an expert.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Okay, what part of his comments do you disagree with?And working for ESPN automatically makes you an expert.
ArcticEdge
Footballguy
LOL It's been a long lifetime for me, as I am a Vikings Homer. In Fairbanks tho, it warmed up to about 25 above and it is a beautiful sunny day, gonna go play some shinny hockey outside later.....It's gonna be a long winter in Fairbanks, eh?
Sheriff66
Footballguy
A penalty is a penalty people, doesn't matter if it is pre-season or SB XL. Funny thing is, people are not saying they were not penalties, it is they can't believe they were called. You didn't see the CHAMPS putting themselves in those positions to have the refs make these judgement penalty calls. Only stat that ever matters in the end is the one the CHAMPS clearly won....
SCOREBOARD !!!!
We made the big plays, your #1 point scoring O put up 10, your wonderful D couldn't for the life of them get off the field on 3rd down late in the game, the better team won, PERIOD.
SCOREBOARD !!!!
We made the big plays, your #1 point scoring O put up 10, your wonderful D couldn't for the life of them get off the field on 3rd down late in the game, the better team won, PERIOD.
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The Football Freak
Footballguy
No, Seattle's efforts were taken away. Big difference from folding in the big game.when it mattered, the Steelers ponied up, and Seattle wilted.Seattle had a better turnover margin, TOP, total yards, better QB play...
How exactly did Pittsburgh play better than Seattle?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
It's funny how different fans can watch the same exact game and come up with totally opposite conclusions on the outcome.
There were some bad calls but the reason Seattle lost is because they made too many mistakes. That's it. End of story. The bad calls did not cost them the game, the poor play did.
If Stevens doesn't drop two of those passes, it's a totally different game. I think his drops were by far the the most costly mistakes of the game. The missed FG's (which were results of Steven's drops) were next, followed by Hasselback's INT.
Regardless of the final yardage numbers, the Steelers outplayed Seattle which isn't saying much. They made fewer mistakes and they made more big plays. Neither team impressed me, but the Steelers deserved it more and they got it.
There were some bad calls but the reason Seattle lost is because they made too many mistakes. That's it. End of story. The bad calls did not cost them the game, the poor play did.
If Stevens doesn't drop two of those passes, it's a totally different game. I think his drops were by far the the most costly mistakes of the game. The missed FG's (which were results of Steven's drops) were next, followed by Hasselback's INT.
Regardless of the final yardage numbers, the Steelers outplayed Seattle which isn't saying much. They made fewer mistakes and they made more big plays. Neither team impressed me, but the Steelers deserved it more and they got it.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
I'm quite happy that two Colorado State guys (in Porter and Haggans), won the Superbowl. Actually, Haggans went to my high school. That's pretty cool. Also, I have always liked Cowher.
That being said, the better team did not win...as happens, sometimes. No way.
That being said, the better team did not win...as happens, sometimes. No way.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
I just got on here. It's new to me, and I'm curious what others are saying. There are plenty of threads out there, I'm sure.
Disclaimer: I bet no money on the game and I am a Rams fan.
I agree the refs were terrible. I'll add to the list.
No delay of game on Pittsburgh late in the 4th when it should have been and it would have made it much more difficult for them to get the 1st down. I TIVOed it back and the play clock clearly expired before time out was signaled. Michaels and Madden missed this one badly.
Big Ben's arm was the only thing that broke the plane not the football on his TD. The ball is behind his arm there is no way it could break the plane. Not to mention it appears that as soon as contact is made he fumbles the ball backwards and the linesman initially signaled for 4th down. When he comes up the line he signals touchdown after the loose ball rolls forward and then breaks the plane while Big Ben is clearly down. Then the Levy lacks the guts to make the right call on replay.
The thing about the contact on Jackson's non-TD is the inconsistency of the refs. The Steelers were riding Stevens all night long down the field but illegal contact is never called called. When is the last time you saw a game and illegal contact was not call? It has to be the NE/STL Super Bowl. Jackson does what I would call minor hand fight offense and the DB goads the ref into the call. How many times during the season do you see the same thing happen and the no offensive PI is call? Many, many times.
It was a bad night for the men in stripes.
I agree the refs were terrible. I'll add to the list.
No delay of game on Pittsburgh late in the 4th when it should have been and it would have made it much more difficult for them to get the 1st down. I TIVOed it back and the play clock clearly expired before time out was signaled. Michaels and Madden missed this one badly.
Big Ben's arm was the only thing that broke the plane not the football on his TD. The ball is behind his arm there is no way it could break the plane. Not to mention it appears that as soon as contact is made he fumbles the ball backwards and the linesman initially signaled for 4th down. When he comes up the line he signals touchdown after the loose ball rolls forward and then breaks the plane while Big Ben is clearly down. Then the Levy lacks the guts to make the right call on replay.
The thing about the contact on Jackson's non-TD is the inconsistency of the refs. The Steelers were riding Stevens all night long down the field but illegal contact is never called called. When is the last time you saw a game and illegal contact was not call? It has to be the NE/STL Super Bowl. Jackson does what I would call minor hand fight offense and the DB goads the ref into the call. How many times during the season do you see the same thing happen and the no offensive PI is call? Many, many times.
It was a bad night for the men in stripes.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Great point about the delay of game. I forgot about that one.
Portis 26
Madden Freak
As an impartial neutral, the Steelers' victory stuck in my craw. It seems somehow against the spirit of football that the team that played better should have lost in such an injust fashion.
The Seahawks outgained the Steelers.
They won the turnover battle.
They held the ball for longer.
They passed the ball way better.
They even rushed the ball far more consistently (although Pittsburgh outgained Seattle, their total rushing yards were greatly inflated by FWP's TD scamper when a former practice squad S missed the tackle).
In a normal football game, they would have won 9 times out of 10.
As Gregg Easterbrook might say, the football gods must be greatly angered by this injustice.
My question is: has this ever happened in a Super Bowl before? Did the team that obviously played worse, won? I can't think of a single instance, off the top of my head. I do remember the 49ers-Bengals game when the Bengals were in a position to win it despite having been outgained all game long and scored a lucky return TD - but the Montana-Taylor TD brought the justice the 49ers deserved.
Maybe the famously dismal Colts-Cowboys game?
The Seahawks outgained the Steelers.
They won the turnover battle.
They held the ball for longer.
They passed the ball way better.
They even rushed the ball far more consistently (although Pittsburgh outgained Seattle, their total rushing yards were greatly inflated by FWP's TD scamper when a former practice squad S missed the tackle).
In a normal football game, they would have won 9 times out of 10.
As Gregg Easterbrook might say, the football gods must be greatly angered by this injustice.
My question is: has this ever happened in a Super Bowl before? Did the team that obviously played worse, won? I can't think of a single instance, off the top of my head. I do remember the 49ers-Bengals game when the Bengals were in a position to win it despite having been outgained all game long and scored a lucky return TD - but the Montana-Taylor TD brought the justice the 49ers deserved.
Maybe the famously dismal Colts-Cowboys game?
ArcticEdge
Footballguy
Your reasoning in your posts are fantastic.......
Wheelhouse
Footballguy
I agree completely
Elway Lives
Footballguy
Yes.No.
I guess since the answer to your question is yes, the rest of your question isn't relevent. That's actually quite a hypothetical you are proposing there.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
I'm curious if this can stay on topic. It's actually a good question.
Portis, will you list all the Superbowl scores? It's difficult to go from the top of our heads.
How bout' the Bills and Mr. Norwood? I seem to remember them playing quite well, but I'd have to see the box score first.
Portis, will you list all the Superbowl scores? It's difficult to go from the top of our heads.
How bout' the Bills and Mr. Norwood? I seem to remember them playing quite well, but I'd have to see the box score first.
Elway Lives
Footballguy
*I* heard that from the beginning "the NFL" was set on getting the COLTS to the superbowl. Man they sure tried to screw the Steelers in Indy didn't they? I mean it was OBVIOUS that the refs were blatantly cheating to get Indy to the big game. And somehow Pittsburgh overcame that tremendous bias, that NFL edict that said "Indy shall win the superbowl this year". If you look hard, you can actually see the line judge in that goal line pile knocking the ball out of Bettis' hands. Seriously. I tivo'd it, it is there. Yet Indy did not win. And "the NFL" was sure not happy.
So the following week, with Indy out of the picture, "the NFL" again met in their secret lair and made another mandate...."this year, the Steelers shall win the superbowl". Someone please call Levy and tell him that it is on his shoulders, that Pittsburgh will win or it will mean his job. On top of that, "the NFL" also bought all the tickets and sold them to Pittsburgh supporters, so the so called "neutral site" was not neutral at all. This would be a GREAT cover for when Pittsburgh actually wins...."the NFL" could say that the fans motivated the Steelers, and no one would notice the COMPLETELY INCORRECT calls that would be the tool the zebras would use to hand the game to Pittsburgh.
Mission accomplished. I will be lobbying "the NFL" very hard next year to be sure that Denver is the team selected to win Superbowl XLI. If you can't beat em, join em.
So the following week, with Indy out of the picture, "the NFL" again met in their secret lair and made another mandate...."this year, the Steelers shall win the superbowl". Someone please call Levy and tell him that it is on his shoulders, that Pittsburgh will win or it will mean his job. On top of that, "the NFL" also bought all the tickets and sold them to Pittsburgh supporters, so the so called "neutral site" was not neutral at all. This would be a GREAT cover for when Pittsburgh actually wins...."the NFL" could say that the fans motivated the Steelers, and no one would notice the COMPLETELY INCORRECT calls that would be the tool the zebras would use to hand the game to Pittsburgh.
Mission accomplished. I will be lobbying "the NFL" very hard next year to be sure that Denver is the team selected to win Superbowl XLI. If you can't beat em, join em.
Family Matters
Footballguy
No but at least this time they are right.And working for ESPN automatically makes you an expert.
Portis 26
Madden Freak
I guess you could make a case for:
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
Given that St Louis outgained the Patriots 427-267 yards and Brady only passed for 145 yards. But I remember the Patriots playing a great, determined game and much of those yards coming in garbage time in the 4th quarter. The result didn't seem to be an injustice.
Similarly, the Bengals outgained the 49ers 356-276 in:
San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
But I don't think many people would have complaints over who won.
XXXVI Feb. 3, 2002 New England 20, St. Louis 17
Given that St Louis outgained the Patriots 427-267 yards and Brady only passed for 145 yards. But I remember the Patriots playing a great, determined game and much of those yards coming in garbage time in the 4th quarter. The result didn't seem to be an injustice.
Similarly, the Bengals outgained the 49ers 356-276 in:
San Francisco 26, Cincinnati 21
But I don't think many people would have complaints over who won.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Spell check down?
Portis 26
Madden Freak
And looking at the famously dismal:
Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
The Colts comfortably outgained the Cowboys, so I don't see how the result could be regarded as much of an injustice.
In the Giants-Bills game that was mentioned earlier the Giants played great and actually outgained the Bills, so I don't think anyone could really dispute that victory.
In every other game the team that played better clearly won.
My conclusion: SUPER BOWL XL is the biggest INJUSTICE in Super Bowl history!
Baltimore 16, Dallas 13
The Colts comfortably outgained the Cowboys, so I don't see how the result could be regarded as much of an injustice.
In the Giants-Bills game that was mentioned earlier the Giants played great and actually outgained the Bills, so I don't think anyone could really dispute that victory.
In every other game the team that played better clearly won.
My conclusion: SUPER BOWL XL is the biggest INJUSTICE in Super Bowl history!
Ted the Caver
Footballguy
I disagree. Watching it in slow motion there was a moment there where it looked like the ball could have crossed the plane, while Ben was still coming down. I don't know if it did for sure, but I didn't see the visual evidence required to overturn it.
Ted the Caver
Footballguy
This thread is the poster child for 
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
I tend to agree, actually. While I don't think it crossed, there was a question mark there -- there was a split second that it might have touched. Additionally, I do think Pitt would have gone for it, and scored anyway. Nonetheless, the fact that the ref clearly changed his mind, was disconcerting, to say the least. It almost made me think that that was just further evidence of the blatant bias in this game.
Ted the Caver
Footballguy
The same can be said if he called it short of the plane. He was uncertain one way or the other, so he had to make the choice. If he would have called it short, the Steelers could have reviewed it and there wouldn't have been enough visual evidence to overturn it. I just don't think it was that bad of a call.
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Not really an injustice (although this has been beaten dead in so many other threads already). Steelers won because they converted when the opportunities (which were fewer than Seattle's) were there. The Seahawks showed that they could move the ball but for one reason or another (most people will say officiating), they weren't able to put points on the board when it mattered. I don't remember off hand the last time this happened in the superbowl but I know it's happened many times during the playoffs and regular season.
ArcticEdge
Footballguy
I agree that there was not enough evidence to overturn Ben's TD, however, the refs did lose the game for Seattle with the bad calls stated in my original post.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Actually, it isn't. Clearly, their are plenty of people that saw it this way, and there is also evidence of it. Furthermore, the question is good one for other years, as well.This thread is the poster child for
fred_1_15301
Footballguy
Yes it's an intricate disguise for the millionth "Seattle got screwed by the refs" thread.This thread is the poster child for
Ted the Caver
Footballguy
"I should have won because I gained more yards.""Point to the shirt!"Actually, it isn't. Clearly, their are plenty of people that saw it this way, and there is also evidence of it. Furthermore, the question is good one for other years, as well.This thread is the poster child for
Portis 26
Madden Freak
I hear you, but I set out the criteria right at the beginning. Any time a team:a) outgains anotherb) wins the turnover battlec) holds the ball for longerd) passes the ball much bettere) rushes more consistentlythey almost always win, and it takes exceptional circumstances to change that.
Loomba
Footballguy
The pass to Stevens was caught and fumbled (not incomplete). He turned and took at least one, possibly two, complete steps forward before the ball came out. The played should not have been whistled dead. As the ball rolled out of bounds, I believe Seattle would have kept possession.
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Don't be bitter about that ugly victory that will always be remembered with BIG black and white stripes. It's okay."I should have won because I gained more yards.""Point to the shirt!"Actually, it isn't. Clearly, their are plenty of people that saw it this way, and there is also evidence of it. Furthermore, the question is good one for other years, as well.This thread is the poster child for
We will call it, the ZebraBowl!- Status
