Not a fan of either but you can't take away from the Steelers performance. They played the same blue collar game they always play. Just kept working and grinding. I also thought although Big Ben didn't look so sharp in the passing game he made some big runs and threw a nice block on the Randle-El play. Another great blue collar player.
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*** Complain about the officials thread *** (1 Viewer)
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3C's
Footballguy
It was pass interferance.It was holding.D Jax pass interferance call minus 4 pts (because they got a field goal)Hold call on Stevens play at the 1, minus possible 7pts (because they threw a int versus running with alexander from the 1)Yup. A couple of questionable calls. Show me the game that hasn't had any. There were some much much MUCH worse officiating efforts during this year's playoffs. The bad calls tonite were not game changing nor of greater numbers than the average game. Its done. Sorry if you can't live with it.You're not allowed to tackle a guy below the waist? Good to know...X infinity.
The refs didn't cost anyone anything. The officiating was just fine tonite.
Roth's touchdown that wasn't, minus 4 (because they would have gotten a FG)
That's a 15 pt swing, open a blind eye and you still won't see anything. Clear blind Homerism on your part. Give Seattle 15 pts and they win the game by 4. I'm not a fan of either team and thought Seattle got screwed.
It was a td. Even still, who's to say the Steelers don't go for it on 4th and make it.
Blind homerism? If you haven't noticed, the poster you replied to is a Bronco fan.
I agree. the only blatantly bad call was the block. And on the fumble, he had possession and two feet, but he DID NOT make a football move. Again, the right call. Three years ago, that's a catch. Now, you have to make a football move, and he didn't. Break for the 'Hawks though, because if it's a catch, they turn the ball over there, and the 'hawk fans would be screaming about him not making a football move.
Sideline Merc
Footballguy
I laugh when I see this crap. The only way the officials cost any team a game is when that team plays a perfect game. For every no call or bad call there are droped passes, holding penalties, offsides, all kinds of reasons why the team cost themselves the game. Stop crying about it.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Did the officiating cause Seattle to lose the game? Absolutely not.
Was the officiating atrocious and embarassing? Absolutely.
Was the officiating atrocious and embarassing? Absolutely.
Reaper
Footballguy
Well, you can also talk about calls without crying - I'm not a Seattle fan.The fact is, those calls COULD have gone the other way - If they do, the game COULD have been different....
I just think it stinks when a game has calls like that one did...
Sure a team could STILL win with calls going against them, and sure Seattle didn't play a perfect game - Just sucks that they had too - Pitt wasn't perfect either....
- STILL Not crying.
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Killerclown
Footballguy
only take one part of the quote that helps your argument
jetpack
Footballguy
I'm sorry, but this loss was self inflicted - not the result of the refs. The Seahawks didn't play to the level they needed to. Every team gets some bad calls and non calls. I don't hear anyone talking about the obvious Jeramy Stevens fumble this morning that could have changed the momentum of the game towards the steelers. The fact is - this team had a number of self-inflicted wounds that did more to hurt their chances to win than any ref could give them:
- Their defense had the benefit of a badly off Rothlisberger and yet still gave up huge plays. They never made any critical stops, especially in the last half of the 4th quarter after the steelers stung them with the Randel-el TD. Their vaunted sack attack got ONE and had one gimme INT. The other INT near the EZ stopped this game from being a total blow-out by the steelers. Had they played better and not given up 21 pts, I could imagine that this game would be much closer. Bottom line - their defense could not seal the deal.
- Their offense had their way with the steelers between the 20s, but that's not where any points are scored. There was little to no running game in the red zone, which is shocking to me. Why they didn't go for the juglar with that is beyond me since Alexander was running very effectively against the steelers. They should have fed him the ball 30 times this game. Did they? And while we're discussing play-calling, lets also throw in clock management. End of the half was a mess for the Hawks.
- their special teams were terrible. Punter couln't drop a punt inside the 10. Kicker missed two field goals. Holding on two returns. Has this not been the Seahawks problem all year? That's what I've read. They LOST this facet of the game outright.
Folks can grouse about the td called back but SO WHAT? It happens to every team. If PI hadn't been called, Steeler fans would be grousing now over a horrible non-call that cost them the game. Fact is, a vet receiver should know not to do that in front of a ref. Too many people are attributing the entire outcome of the game to this play and that's wrong. There was way too much time to get over that call in the game for either side.
Bottom line - Better team won. Some can argue that the Hakws were a stronger team coming into the game, but end the end they weren't the better team.
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
Unfortunately, yes.
nerangers
Footballguy
Was thinking the same thing about Jeremy Stevens....and that had nothing to do with the officiating. Officiating was bad in the game, but Seattle had some opportunities and just did not get it done. You need to catch the ball in play, and I did not see any Officials causing the WRs to go out of bounds. I am sure fans will look back at the play prior to Hasselbecks interception and say he would not have turned the ball over if it was first and goal. Even with the bad call though, it was Hasselbeck that did in fact throw the bad pick. Bad calls seem to happen in games all the time (especially lately in the playoffs!) but it is how the team handles themselves that make Champions. The DJax TD was questionable, as was Big Ben's TD. I still think the better team on the field won the game. It is too bad that officiating always has to come into play on these big games!
3C's
Footballguy
I think there would have been just as much criticism on the PI call if the flag had not been thrown. Seattle lost because they couldn't catch the ball (Stevens), couldn't catch the ball inbounds (Jackson), poor clock management (Hass/Holmgren) and the Steelers converted a couple of big plays.
The evidence starts at the Polamalu interception, when the NFL didn't fine Porter for his comments because they knew he was right. Then the Super Bowl looks like its fixed in favor of the more liked and more marketable Pittsburgh Steelers.
1. The Darrell Jackson "pushoff" - yes, technically it was a pushoff and I want the NFL to start being more strict on this, but in every other game of the season receivers could easily get away with this, and now that its looking good for Seattle they start making this call? If it was Hines Ward on that pass, it would have been a no call
2. The "holding" call on the punt return - Are you kidding me?
3. The Roethlisberger touchdown - There was no conclusive evidence so it shouldn't have been overturned in replay, but did you see the ref when he called it? He ran almost the whole way looking like he's going to spot the ball, then all of a sudden he pauses a little bit, and decides to put his hands up
very very suspicious to me
4. Hasselbecks "block below the waist" - How do you block someone below the waist when you are trying to tackle someone?
4. The phantom holding call on Locklear - you've got to be freaking kidding me that's not a hold. On TV, it seemed like the flag was late, I'm guessing the flag didn't get thrown until it looked like a sure thing that Seattle would take the lead with first and goal on the one.
5. A huge no call on Jeff Hartings' blatant and obvious hold - If you have the game on TIVO, go back and look at Roethlisberger's quarterback draw on 3rd and 2. This was probably the biggest conversion of the game. When I was watching it, I was sure that it was coming back, and became shocked when there was no flag. The center for the Steelers, I think it was Jeff Hartings, swung his guy around with both hands by the jersey. If Locklear was holding, then there was no doubt that Hartings was holding.
The only other time I have blamed a football game on the refs was the Miami/Ohio State Nationial Championship game. I usually go by the fact that bad calls even out and that winners make plays, losers make excuses. However, this game is an exception. EVERY single questionable call went in favor of the much more marketable Steelers. This just flat out reeks of a fix. I haven't seen something this bad since Kobe and Shaq were both in LA.
1. The Darrell Jackson "pushoff" - yes, technically it was a pushoff and I want the NFL to start being more strict on this, but in every other game of the season receivers could easily get away with this, and now that its looking good for Seattle they start making this call? If it was Hines Ward on that pass, it would have been a no call
2. The "holding" call on the punt return - Are you kidding me?
3. The Roethlisberger touchdown - There was no conclusive evidence so it shouldn't have been overturned in replay, but did you see the ref when he called it? He ran almost the whole way looking like he's going to spot the ball, then all of a sudden he pauses a little bit, and decides to put his hands up
very very suspicious to me4. Hasselbecks "block below the waist" - How do you block someone below the waist when you are trying to tackle someone?
4. The phantom holding call on Locklear - you've got to be freaking kidding me that's not a hold. On TV, it seemed like the flag was late, I'm guessing the flag didn't get thrown until it looked like a sure thing that Seattle would take the lead with first and goal on the one.
5. A huge no call on Jeff Hartings' blatant and obvious hold - If you have the game on TIVO, go back and look at Roethlisberger's quarterback draw on 3rd and 2. This was probably the biggest conversion of the game. When I was watching it, I was sure that it was coming back, and became shocked when there was no flag. The center for the Steelers, I think it was Jeff Hartings, swung his guy around with both hands by the jersey. If Locklear was holding, then there was no doubt that Hartings was holding.
The only other time I have blamed a football game on the refs was the Miami/Ohio State Nationial Championship game. I usually go by the fact that bad calls even out and that winners make plays, losers make excuses. However, this game is an exception. EVERY single questionable call went in favor of the much more marketable Steelers. This just flat out reeks of a fix. I haven't seen something this bad since Kobe and Shaq were both in LA.
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What calls could have gone the other way?
If you're playing tackle, and you get your arms outside your frame to hold back the defender, you will get called for holding. If they miss the call, complain. But, don't complain because the refs made the right call. It was borderline, but because it's on the edge, it looks worse.
If you're a receiver and stiff arm the defender to create seperation, you're guilty of illegal contact at a minimum, and PI if the balls in the air. The only way this call goes the other way is if they miss the contact, and they sometimes do. You can't fault them for making the right call.
On the Roethlisberger TD, I thought he got the nose of the ball to the goal line. Even after replay, I felt the same way. It was a TD. Was it close? Absolutely. But, people are acting like he came up short at the 1 or something. Say it's down at the 1" line. It's 4th and 1". Think they'll go for it w/ a QB sneak, or another bootleg? I think it's a mute point, because they would have gotten in on the next play. I find it hilarious that those complaining about this play are giving Seattle a TD from the 1+ when they want to overlook the holding.
I don't subscribe to the 'put the whistle away" theory. There are rules to the game. If the rules are broken, it's a penalty, and it should be called, no matter the situation. The only bad call I saw was the 15 yarder on Hass for making a tackle. Everything else looked pretty good to me.
If you're playing tackle, and you get your arms outside your frame to hold back the defender, you will get called for holding. If they miss the call, complain. But, don't complain because the refs made the right call. It was borderline, but because it's on the edge, it looks worse.
If you're a receiver and stiff arm the defender to create seperation, you're guilty of illegal contact at a minimum, and PI if the balls in the air. The only way this call goes the other way is if they miss the contact, and they sometimes do. You can't fault them for making the right call.
On the Roethlisberger TD, I thought he got the nose of the ball to the goal line. Even after replay, I felt the same way. It was a TD. Was it close? Absolutely. But, people are acting like he came up short at the 1 or something. Say it's down at the 1" line. It's 4th and 1". Think they'll go for it w/ a QB sneak, or another bootleg? I think it's a mute point, because they would have gotten in on the next play. I find it hilarious that those complaining about this play are giving Seattle a TD from the 1+ when they want to overlook the holding.
I don't subscribe to the 'put the whistle away" theory. There are rules to the game. If the rules are broken, it's a penalty, and it should be called, no matter the situation. The only bad call I saw was the 15 yarder on Hass for making a tackle. Everything else looked pretty good to me.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
the worst part about the holding call is that the defensive player was almost a yard offsides at the snap... and was offsides again on the next play...
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Spellcheck down?Well, that's not all that must be down...but let's start there.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
1. DJax PI, questionable/bad call2. the "phantom" holding callIf you're going to make an assinine comment like that, you better be able to back it up. I highly doubt you can.the Super Bowl shouldn't have more than 10 bad calls that ALL go against one team, though...Yup. A couple of questionable calls. Show me the game that hasn't had any. There were some much much MUCH worse officiating efforts during this year's playoffs. The bad calls tonite were not game changing nor of greater numbers than the average game. Its done. Sorry if you can't live with it.You're not allowed to tackle a guy below the waist? Good to know...
The refs didn't cost anyone anything. The officiating was just fine tonite.
3. the offsides defender on the phantom holding play
4. the SAME EXACT DEFENDER offsides on the next play (the sack)
5. Roeth's TD
6. the fumble/catch ruled incomplete
7. the Hass chop block (that was a tackle)
8. the non-calls on the Pitt line that were called on teh SEA line
9. the non-calls on Roeth for low tackles/blocks that were called on Hass (and Roeth was actually blocking one of the time, not tackling)
10.
ok, so I can't think of 10 off the top of my head, 9 is bad enough, though...
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
Michael Irvin made a CAREER of making the same exact play that D-Jax made... and there isn't all tha tmuch complaining going on about it...
Reaper
Footballguy
I shouldn't have said "Seattle would probably win"...BOTTOM LINE - It just sucks that these calls are an issue - They should not have been called... Like in old school playoff hockey, let the teams PLAY.
You can argue for and against the calls - But, IMO the calls could have gone TOTALLY the opposite way and it would have been LESS of an issue - If no one calls Offensive Holding then, no one even questions it and the play goes on - Same thing in my opinion on the push off - Tick tacky and if not called it's LESS of a deal...
With just those 2 calls, I think Seattle has a real good chance...
And again - BOTTOM LINE - it just sucks that THIS IS an issue and it sucks for Seattle and their fans.
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larry_boy_44
Footballguy
the biggest problem with them isn't necessarily that htey were called, its that they were only called when it went against Seattle...
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
Wow, GB LB in the SP.
Aaronstory
Footballguy
1. DJax PI, questionable/bad call2. the "phantom" holding callIf you're going to make an assinine comment like that, you better be able to back it up. I highly doubt you can.the Super Bowl shouldn't have more than 10 bad calls that ALL go against one team, though...Yup. A couple of questionable calls. Show me the game that hasn't had any. There were some much much MUCH worse officiating efforts during this year's playoffs. The bad calls tonite were not game changing nor of greater numbers than the average game. Its done. Sorry if you can't live with it.You're not allowed to tackle a guy below the waist? Good to know...
The refs didn't cost anyone anything. The officiating was just fine tonite.
3. the offsides defender on the phantom holding play
4. the SAME EXACT DEFENDER offsides on the next play (the sack)
5. Roeth's TD
6. the fumble/catch ruled incomplete
7. the Hass chop block (that was a tackle)
8. the non-calls on the Pitt line that were called on teh SEA line
9. the non-calls on Roeth for low tackles/blocks that were called on Hass (and Roeth was actually blocking one of the time, not tackling)
10.
ok, so I can't think of 10 off the top of my head, 9 is bad enough, though...
Yeah, and I know that I saw the side judge giving Stevens popcorn with extra butter at least half a dozen times.
The Hasslebeck tackle call was particularly egregious, but it wouldn't have changed the INT, it just would have resulted in the Randle-El/Ward TD being 15 yds longer. Everyone who has watched the Steelers play the past couple of years knew Randle-El was throwing that ball - except, of course, the Seahawks.
The holding call was close. The Stevens fumble was close. The Roethlisberger TD was close to the extreme. Hard to see fault in any of those calls going either way.
The O pass interference was blatant, in the open, in front of the ref, and completely unnecessary considering where the ball was thrown. That penalty can only be attributed to stupidity on Jackson's part.
I don't know how anyone can possibly question Jackon's feet at the pylon. The rules are very clear - 2 feet inbounds no matter unless there is a push by a defender that would have altered a receiver's feet that would have definitively come down inbounds otherwise. If anyone is arguing that call, they are rationalizing getting beat when Seattle could have taken charge of the game in the first half & dictated the outcome.
You give up a 70+ yd rushing TD where the D got their doors blown off, you give up a WR pass that everyone knew was coming, you have a TE who dropped any pass that hit him in the hands except 1, and your QB throws a miserable INT going in for a score and you deserve to lose. At least show some class & take the loss as it was - SEA gave the game away, not the refs.
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Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
No, I'm a smart one.wow you're a badassSpellcheck down?Well, that's not all that must be down...but let's start there.
Koya
Footballguy
While the refs didnt lose the game for the Hawks, they did their best to help the Steelers - and without the beenfit of call after call after call, it is quite likely we would have seen a different outcome.
One of the worst officiated big games I have ever seen. Bad enough that questioning intention is legitimate - it was THAT bad.
I for one don't believe any kind of fix was in, but the fact is the Steelers were spoted about 4 points in this game... and that might have been enough to ensure the Hawks, who were about as good as the Steeelers, could not overcome. (yes, i know the final score was 11, but I also think you get even 2 of those calls right, and the entire flow of the game changes in Seattle's direction).
Really an embarassment.
One of the worst officiated big games I have ever seen. Bad enough that questioning intention is legitimate - it was THAT bad.
I for one don't believe any kind of fix was in, but the fact is the Steelers were spoted about 4 points in this game... and that might have been enough to ensure the Hawks, who were about as good as the Steeelers, could not overcome. (yes, i know the final score was 11, but I also think you get even 2 of those calls right, and the entire flow of the game changes in Seattle's direction).
Really an embarassment.
Elway Lives
Footballguy
D Jax pass interferance call minus 4 pts (because they got a field goal)Hold call on Stevens play at the 1, minus possible 7pts (because they threw a int versus running with alexander from the 1)Yup. A couple of questionable calls. Show me the game that hasn't had any. There were some much much MUCH worse officiating efforts during this year's playoffs. The bad calls tonite were not game changing nor of greater numbers than the average game. Its done. Sorry if you can't live with it.You're not allowed to tackle a guy below the waist? Good to know...
The refs didn't cost anyone anything. The officiating was just fine tonite.
Roth's touchdown that wasn't, minus 4 (because they would have gotten a FG)
That's a 15 pt swing, open a blind eye and you still won't see anything. Clear blind Homerism on your part. Give Seattle 15 pts and they win the game by 4. I'm not a fan of either team and thought Seattle got screwed.
Dude my team got their butts stomped on by Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. I've got no allegiance to either team (in fact, Porter getting a ring actually stings worse than any Seattle player getting one). The matter-of-fact, points-would-have-been-so-and-so arguments here are comical. I disagree with 2 of your 3 assessments above anyway, so we cancel each other out. Better team last nite still wins.
3C's
Footballguy
1. It was PI. Plain and simple.2. It was holding.
3. Looked like a well timed jump to me, but could have been called.
4. See 3.
5. It was a td. With the glory of tivo I went frame by frame. Ben was wearing a white elbow pad. The entire pad, which would include part of his forearm, went over the goalline. The ball was tucked in his elbow. Hard not to imagine that the ball didn't cross the goalline.
6. Whistle shouldn't have been blown. Should have been allowed to go to replay.
7. Bad call.
8. Any specifics? I know someone said there was a hold on Randle El's td pass to Ward. That's incorrect. There were no holds on that play. I just watched it again.
9. That's ridiculous. Ben's block was totally legal.
jetpack
Footballguy
The Steelers had some terrible and very obvious poor calls go against them in the Indy game. Polamalu's INT comes to mind. Despite being in the den of the lion against a team that was a foregone conclusion to crush them - they were able to overcome some bad bounces and WON.
The Seahawks had some marginal calls go against them. Certainly nothing as obvious as the Polamalu INT or as mismanaged as the entire Indy-Pitt or NE-DEN games were. Despite being in the den of the lion against a team that was a foregone conclusion to crush them - they were NOT able to overcome some bad bounces and therefore LOST.
The Seahawks had some marginal calls go against them. Certainly nothing as obvious as the Polamalu INT or as mismanaged as the entire Indy-Pitt or NE-DEN games were. Despite being in the den of the lion against a team that was a foregone conclusion to crush them - they were NOT able to overcome some bad bounces and therefore LOST.
Joe T
Footballguy
I was pretty unbiased going in as I was only rooting for my Super Bowl squares. But as a sports fan, you like to see championships that are decided by the players. It didn't seem like that was the case here. The refs had too much of an impact on the outcome of the game. That is dissapointing. This will go down in my book as the worst Super Bowl game that I've ever seen. I guess Skip Bayless was right when he wrote: 'Wake me when its over.'
Pretty sad game all the way around.
Pretty sad game all the way around.
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larry_boy_44
Footballguy
so Seattle deserved to get jobbed by the refs because they made a couple bad plays???
Yeah, and I know that I saw the side judge giving Stevens popcorn with extra butter at least half a dozen times.
The Hasslebeck tackle call was particularly egregious, but it wouldn't have changed the INT, it just would have resulted in the Randle-El/Ward TD being 15 yds longer. Everyone who has watched the Steelers play the past couple of years knew Randle-El was throwing that ball - except, of course, the Seahawks.
The holding call was close. The Stevens fumble was close. The Roethlisberger TD was close to the extreme. Hard to see fault in any of those calls going either way.
The O pass interference was blatant, in the open, in front of the ref, and completely unnecessary considering where the ball was thrown. That penalty can only be attributed to stupidity on Jackson's part.
I don't know how anyone can possibly question Jackon's feet at the pylon. The rules are very clear - 2 feet inbounds no matter unless there is a push by a defender that would have altered a receiver's feet that would have definitively come down inbounds otherwise. If anyone is arguing that call, they are rationalizing getting beat when Seattle could have taken charge of the game in the first half & dictated the outcome.
You give up a 70+ yd rushing TD where the D got their doors blown off, you give up a WR pass that everyone knew was coming, you have a TE who dropped any pass that hit him in the hands except 1, and your QB throws a miserable INT going in for a score and you deserve to lose. At least show some class & take the loss as it was - SEA gave the game away, not the refs.
Sideline Merc
Footballguy
Officiating has nothing to do with it. IF the Seahawks had caught those passes, not held during key drives, then they would of had a shot. The Seahawks were clearly not the better team. Mind you, this is coming from a Raven fan. I have no Steeler love. I do however know a great team will overcome bad official calls with great football play. The Seahawks did not so the were not the better team.
Tau837
Footballguy
Yeah, and I know that I saw the side judge giving Stevens popcorn with extra butter at least half a dozen times.
The Hasslebeck tackle call was particularly egregious, but it wouldn't have changed the INT, it just would have resulted in the Randle-El/Ward TD being 15 yds longer. Everyone who has watched the Steelers play the past couple of years knew Randle-El was throwing that ball - except, of course, the Seahawks.
The holding call was close. The Stevens fumble was close. The Roethlisberger TD was close to the extreme. Hard to see fault in any of those calls going either way.
The O pass interference was blatant, in the open, in front of the ref, and completely unnecessary considering where the ball was thrown. That penalty can only be attributed to stupidity on Jackson's part.
I don't know how anyone can possibly question Jackon's feet at the pylon. The rules are very clear - 2 feet inbounds no matter unless there is a push by a defender that would have altered a receiver's feet that would have definitively come down inbounds otherwise. If anyone is arguing that call, they are rationalizing getting beat when Seattle could have taken charge of the game in the first half & dictated the outcome.
You give up a 70+ yd rushing TD where the D got their doors blown off, you give up a WR pass that everyone knew was coming, you have a TE who dropped any pass that hit him in the hands except 1, and your QB throws a miserable INT going in for a score and you deserve to lose. At least show some class & take the loss as it was - SEA gave the game away, not the refs.
You can't stiff arm to create seperation. It's a penalty, and was called. Blame DJax, not the refs.
It's holding if you get your arms outside your frame to hold back the defender. It was unmistakeble holding. Do people get away w/ it sometimes? Sure do. But that doesn't mean you should want them to make the wrong call.
I appeared to me that Hass was in a pattern w/ his snap counts, and they were getting jumped. If the defender is off on the count, he will appear offsides, because he's on the tackle when Hass gets the ball and can start moving. He wasn't off sides on either. Blame Hass for getting into a pattern, allowing the jump.
It was a TD. Nose of the ball broke the plane. I will say that it was inconclusive on replay. Whatever the call on the field was, it would stay. People are acting like he wasn't even close. On replay, it looks like the nose breaks the plane. That's a TD.
He did catch the ball, and get two feet down, but he did NOT make a 'football move'. That's the rule. If it had been ruled a catch, and Pitt recovered, you'd be saying, "But, he didn't make a football move. It was no catch". They made the right call. Just because you don't like the outcome, doesn't make it a bad call.
Bad call. Horrendous call, and I don't know how they made it.
There are non-calls in every game. There were more holding calls on Seattle that I saw that went uncalled. I saw the same on Pitts side. There is not a game, heck, there's not a series in a game, where you can't look in slo-mo and see holding. That's just the way the game is. Keep in mind though that Seattle only had 7 penalties for 70 yards. Take away the holding discussed here, the Hass 15 yarder, and the DJax 15 yarder, and we have 4 for 30. These are just the ones being discussed, but you're alluding to an avalanche of anti-Seattle calls. So, we have 4 for 30 yards. Pitt had 3 for 20. WEre the 'Hawks really getting a lot of line calls against them that Pitt wasn't? It's an empty argument.
I'll even give you this one. Are you talking about the Herndon return? What difference would it have made if he gets called for it? Didn't they get the Stevens TD on that drive?
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