Congress punches NE Patriots* in the mouth (1 Viewer)

[{Syrus}]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of their championships.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Remember when Newt and that hack Senator from Louisiana went after Clinton? How'd that work out for them?The career is Senator Arlen Spector has become a characature.

 

[{Syrus}]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Remember when Newt and that hack Senator from Louisiana went after Clinton? How'd that work out for them?The career is Senator Arlen Spector has become a characature.

Senator Specter is the least of their worries, but he is the catalyst to get the Senate Judiciary Committee involved.

 

[Little Lord Humpleroy]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

 

[{Syrus}]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

 

[Road Warriors]

 

[Little Lord Humpleroy]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

 

[{Syrus}]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

 

[whoknew]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

If the NFL has the same anti-trust exemption that MLB has, as Spector has said it does, and Maurile Tremblay said they do not in another thread, then Congress has authority via the the anti-trust exemption to ensure that an unfair monopoly does not exist.

 

[Mystery Achiever]

Arlen Specter Thread

 

[{Syrus}]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football.

But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.

J

 

[{Syrus}]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Agreed, Joe. I'm still astonished people let Goodell slide so easily for that destruction of evidence.

 

[Road Warriors]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

I'm sure there are the legal guys here that can explain it way better than I but I think the difference here with sports is that the league is fairly beholden to Congress as they've been granted anti trust status. That's the big card they hold on capital hill over the NFL.J

 

[{Syrus}]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

I'm fairly certain Senator Specter has the grounds to call up the Senate Judiciary Committee, or else he wouldn't be pursuing this. Perhaps you should contact him?

 

[Bill]

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

I'm sure there are the legal guys here that can explain it way better than I but I think the difference here with sports is that the league is fairly beholden to Congress as they've been granted anti trust status. That's the big card they hold on capital hill over MLB and the NFL.J

Joe, did you happen to notice that Maurile states in the Spector thread that no such anti-trust exemption exists for the NFL?I'm confused by the conflicting information floating around about this exemption.Additionally, while I'm personally troubled by the concept of filming a walkthrough, Howie Long and Jimmy Johnson just talked about what a joke it us to think that this could have had a material impact on the game in question, and that all coaches assume such activity is subject to open (competitive) scrutiny.

 

[Road Warriors]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors. To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

I'm fairly certain Senator Specter has the grounds to call up the Senate Judiciary Committee, or else he wouldn't be pursuing this. Perhaps you should contact him?

Actually, I'm fairly certain Senator Spector has a Comcast agenda, and is using this pulpit to apply pressure to the NFL to give his biggest finacial contributor a sweetheart deal. The NFL may well end up in front of the senate judicial committee, regarding their NFL network dealings ( which I do think have some potential government involvement coming ) but I'd be rather surprised to see any investigation into allegations the Patriots taped opponents by our Congress. Apparently, in your residual hate of the Patriots, you seem to think that would be a good use of our tax dollars. I'll continue to stay on the side of somewhat more important issues being where we should be focusing our attention and tax dollars.

 

[twitch]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

 

[thejag]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

I have also been on this site since the beginning, and can tell you that for some reason Joe just doesn't like the Pats for whatever reason. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[mdog1967]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Surprise surprise Joe, anything to get back at those darn Patriots. Almost as funny as the change to the Benson post title. I would be very cautious, if indeed the Pats are conclusively found to have taped the Rams then they deserve what they got coming to them, and by proof there had better be a video still hanging around. The flood gates could get thrown wide open and expose many, many teams to unscrupulous characters trying to get their 15 minutes and make a few bucks. Your anti Pat feelings are well known Joe, just don’t get bent out of shape when other teams, including your favorite is exposed. The only problem I have with Senator Specter (not congressman) is the timing; he could have waited until after the Super bowl. The "evidence" as you put is not evidence, it is property of the NFL and as such is left to the discretion of the league to determine its status. Evidence is collected for criminal prosecution or for absolving entities from criminal charges; league rule violations are not criminal.Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

 

[North]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

I heard him on Mike and Mike and Mike G. asked why it was a big deal and why bother. They stole signals, players and coaches have been doing it for years. The Sen.'s response was to compare it to stealing cars, he said "stealing cars isn't legal but people do it, should people not go after them?". His rationale is joke.It's clear this guy has something to prove by his history with the NFL. I think that the comcast link is something that should be investigated on the NFL's part against Spector! How would he like that?

 

[Joe Bryant]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

If you're going to leave the site because I don't agree with Goodell getting a free pass on destroying evidence then I don't know what to tell you. Thanks for being around the time you were here and good luck wherever you go.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

 

[mdog1967]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

The business is the NFL, so I disagree with you there is no unfair business practice in this instance, there was a league rule violation and the Pats were punished for doing so. I would rather see congress ask why fans have to pay such incredibly high prices for tickets, the NFL has many resources for revenue, tickets could be a little cheaper. Your mention of the broadcasting practices are much more warranted IMHO.It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

 

[Road Warriors]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

I heard him on Mike and Mike and Mike G. asked why it was a big deal and why bother. They stole signals, players and coaches have been doing it for years. The Sen.'s response was to compare it to stealing cars, he said "stealing cars isn't legal but people do it, should people not go after them?". His rationale is joke.It's clear this guy has something to prove by his history with the NFL. I think that the comcast link is something that should be investigated on the NFL's part against Spector! How would he like that?

A member of the Senate and the judiciary committee can't distinguish between breaking laws and violating corporate policy?

Wow! just WOW!

 

[Joe Bryant]

It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

So you're in favor Spector or whomever "getting all the facts" on this with an investigation?And who is "convicting" Goodell? It looks to me like it's just someone asking why evidence was destroyed.J

 

[Das Boot]

It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

I would accuse anyone of a potential cover-up who quickly and completely destroys evidence.At worst it was a criminal act.At best it was a horribly poor decision.And Goodell and the NFL's lawyers are much too smart for the latter.

 

[mdog1967]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

 

[mdog1967]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

I heard him on Mike and Mike and Mike G. asked why it was a big deal and why bother. They stole signals, players and coaches have been doing it for years. The Sen.'s response was to compare it to stealing cars, he said "stealing cars isn't legal but people do it, should people not go after them?". His rationale is joke.It's clear this guy has something to prove by his history with the NFL. I think that the comcast link is something that should be investigated on the NFL's part against Spector! How would he like that?

A member of the Senate and the judiciary committee can't distinguish between breaking laws and violating corporate policy?

Wow! just WOW!

Exactly, best post on this topic.

 

[Road Warriors]

It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

I would accuse anyone of a potential cover-up who quickly and completely destroys evidence.At worst it was a criminal act.At best it was a horribly poor decision.And Goodell and the NFL's lawyers are much too smart for the latter.

My company has a policy to delete all emails after 6 months. What if there was supeona worthy information in one of those emails. Does that make the deletion illegal? There is an entire industry devoted to retention policy. The tapes were not part of any criminal activity. They were in violation of league policy. They are the sole property of the league, and the league has the right to do what they want with them. It's not really all that complicated. Just because you speculate there is more to the story and feel you have the right to know ( you don't, BTW ) doesn't mean that what the league did is illegal or even improper.It just doesn't play well in the press, and leads to uninformed opinions to continue to speculate and dream up conspiracy theories.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

 

[Redwes25]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

You have to be kidding. This can't possibly be serious.

 

[BusterTBronco]

It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

I would accuse anyone of a potential cover-up who quickly and completely destroys evidence.At worst it was a criminal act.At best it was a horribly poor decision.And Goodell and the NFL's lawyers are much too smart for the latter.

My company has a policy to delete all emails after 6 months. What if there was supeona worthy information in one of those emails. Does that make the deletion illegal? There is an entire industry devoted to retention policy. The tapes were not part of any criminal activity. They were in violation of league policy. They are the sole property of the league, and the league has the right to do what they want with them. It's not really all that complicated. Just because you speculate there is more to the story and feel you have the right to know ( you don't, BTW ) doesn't mean that what the league did is illegal or even improper.It just doesn't play well in the press, and leads to uninformed opinions to continue to speculate and dream up conspiracy theories.

The NFL is within their rights to destroy the tapes (and congress is within their rights to revoke their antitrust exemption)

 

[Joe Bryant]

It is extremely unfair and an obvious bias that you accuse Roger Goodell of a potential cover-up. Lets get all the facts in this open can of worms before we convict the man in the court of public opinion.

I would accuse anyone of a potential cover-up who quickly and completely destroys evidence.At worst it was a criminal act.At best it was a horribly poor decision.And Goodell and the NFL's lawyers are much too smart for the latter.

That's pretty much how I saw it. They HAD to know they would get killed in the press for immediately destroying the evidence. I was amazed it took this long to come up like this. But I would expect it was a simple decision where they weighed out the negatives of destroying evidence against the negatives of those tapes getting out and chose the former. Which would tell me the stuff on the tapes was pretty bad. If it wasn't, that was a very stupid decision to destroy the tapes. And I would be shocked if the league made a stupid decision there. J

 

[kingmalaki]

I know the govt has the right to look at whatever the hell they want...but seriously...wasting my tax dollars to investigate a NFL team breaking a league policy...i.e. not any kid of real, actual legitimate law. That is BS. With all the sh** going on in this country you really have time to investigate whether or not the NLF handled their internal issues properly...about someone taping a game (not illegal drugs or anything like that).

This is so damn stupid. Player X can beat his wife and get a slap on the wrist but Lord forbid the NFL handle gamr rule-breaking on their own...here comes Congress!!!!

 

[analog_hiss]

I'm confused by the conflicting information floating around about this exemption.

Additionally, while I'm personally troubled by the concept of filming a walkthrough, Howie Long and Jimmy Johnson just talked about what a joke it us to think that this could have had a material impact on the game in question, and that all coaches assume such activity is subject to open (competitive) scrutiny.

Look up the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961. This is where the antitrust/NFL comes in and I believe it hinges on broadcast negotiations. Essentially, the NFL (a "monopoly") can negotiate collectively for broadcast contracts, and at the same time, represent the individual franchises in local broadcast renegotiations.I believe the supreme court played a role on the formation of the NFLPA, and the decision hinges on the antitrust laws.

I'm prepping for a SB party, otherwise I would link more info.

 

[greenroom]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )

Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )

Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors.

To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.

For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

Well I know this is probably not what Senator Specter will come out and say. But IF the Patriots did what they were said to have done. That would be an advantage for them. ANd no one can dispute that.Where it goes beyond a league rule to me would be the gambling part of the game. To me it would you could almost say that a "FIX" was in for one team. And that is where you are taking advantage of the "public investors"

I know everyone wants to cover this up because if we found out that the Pats "cheated" on a Super Bowl. To me it would be on par with the gambling issue of the "Black Soxs"in baseball.

That said I hope that the Patriots did not "cheat" to win the Super Bowl.

And I love how Pats fans say its ok to Cheat or that it is a different level of cheating, yet in baseball using steroids which is cheating is totally different?

 

[bradyfan]

That's pretty much how I saw it. They HAD to know they would get killed in the press for immediately destroying the evidence. I was amazed it took this long to come up like this. But I would expect it was a simple decision where they weighed out the negatives of destroying evidence against the negatives of those tapes getting out and chose the former. Which would tell me the stuff on the tapes was pretty bad. If it wasn't, that was a very stupid decision to destroy the tapes. And I would be shocked if the league made a stupid decision there.

J

C'mon we are talking about the JETS here. If I have to review their tapes then I would destroy them after I'm done too.

 

[scott72]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

How dare him go against the your beloved Patriots.. He's allowed to have his opinion just like you are right? You don't seem to have any problem sharing yours? Why should he?

 

[scott72]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

I have also been on this site since the beginning, and can tell you that for some reason Joe just doesn't like the Pats for whatever reason. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

News flash. Lots of people don't care for the New England Patriots..

 

[mdog1967]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

 

[Road Warriors]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )

Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )

Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors.

To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.

For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

Well I know this is probably not what Senator Specter will come out and say. But IF the Patriots did what they were said to have done. That would be an advantage for them. ANd no one can dispute that.Where it goes beyond a league rule to me would be the gambling part of the game. To me it would you could almost say that a "FIX" was in for one team. And that is where you are taking advantage of the "public investors"

I know everyone wants to cover this up because if we found out that the Pats "cheated" on a Super Bowl. To me it would be on par with the gambling issue of the "Black Soxs"in baseball.

That said I hope that the Patriots did not "cheat" to win the Super Bowl.

And I love how Pats fans say its ok to Cheat or that it is a different level of cheating, yet in baseball using steroids which is cheating is totally different?

Can you please indicate where any of the above says anything about the taping being OK? But there is a difference in the 2 scenarios being played out in MLB and the NFL.Steriods is not just cheating, it is illegal. Do you understand the difference? How about this...

If legal supplements were outlawed by baseball policy, and someone took legal supplements, MLB would be within its rights to go after the players who violated the policy set by baseball regarding taking these banned supplements. However, there would be no reason for the US government to get involved, because there was no law being broken.

Cheating is an internal league matter. Breaking the law is an external legal matter.

 

[Road Warriors]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

I have also been on this site since the beginning, and can tell you that for some reason Joe just doesn't like the Pats for whatever reason. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

News flash. Lots of people don't care for the New England Patriots..

Which is why so many don't really care about proof of allegations. Lets just hang 'em high on speculation.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I'm confused by the conflicting information floating around about this exemption.

Additionally, while I'm personally troubled by the concept of filming a walkthrough, Howie Long and Jimmy Johnson just talked about what a joke it us to think that this could have had a material impact on the game in question, and that all coaches assume such activity is subject to open (competitive) scrutiny.

Look up the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961. This is where the antitrust/NFL comes in and I believe it hinges on broadcast negotiations. Essentially, the NFL (a "monopoly") can negotiate collectively for broadcast contracts, and at the same time, represent the individual franchises in local broadcast renegotiations.I believe the supreme court played a role on the formation of the NFLPA, and the decision hinges on the antitrust laws.

I'm prepping for a SB party, otherwise I would link more info.

for a more recent illustration of the NFL anti-trust exemption in action, see Clarett v NFL in which a federal district court upheld the NFL's ability to restrain trade with respect to non-members of the NFLPA.

 

[Road Warriors]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?" He is an elected Congressman and is a representative of the people. The duties of a Congressman include a broad scope, and investigating businesses perhaps engaged in unfair business practices is among them. It happened earlier this year as Congress was getting set to investigate the NFL Network and broadcasting practices. Whether it's Microsoft, Enron, or the NFL an integrity of fair business practice must be upheld. It so happens that the NFL's business are football games....but New England's cheating and the potential coverup by Roger Goodell is no game. I'll be very happy if Congress looks into this matter further and upholds the integrity of the game. We don't want this turning into baseball. Patriots should be punished further, accordingly.

Government has the duty to get involved in many areas of business. Public corporations that defraud investors. ( Enron )

Any corporation that uses unfair business practices to depress competition. ( Microsoft )

Now, there is an incredibly large hole in your comparison of these businesses and the NFL. The NFL franchises, that make up the business entity of the NFL are effectively under the control of that entity. The government does not have any place in trying to police how the NFL corporation runs its own business, unless it is interfering with other businesses ( ie. other football leagues ) or taking advantage of the public investors.

To put this into a business sense, it would be like one McDonalds franchise violated Coroprate's policy on pricing, allowing that franchise to make greater profit than franchises nearby. It would be reasonable for McDonalds corporate to find them in violation of policy and fine them or levy other punishment. It would be incredibly unreasonable for the US Congress to investigate the allegations of pricing policy violations of this franchise, assuming they were not breaking any laws.

For every poster that wants to bring Baseball and Steroids into this conversation, the one overriding difference in baseball and steroids is that steroids are illegal, and baseball was effectivly complicit in allowing illegal activity to occur under their watch. Breaking laws involves the governement, be it law enforcement or Congressional hearings. Taping the opponents signals is against league policy, but is not against any known laws. If I'm mistaken, please point me to the relevant legislation.

Well I know this is probably not what Senator Specter will come out and say. But IF the Patriots did what they were said to have done. That would be an advantage for them. ANd no one can dispute that.Where it goes beyond a league rule to me would be the gambling part of the game. To me it would you could almost say that a "FIX" was in for one team. And that is where you are taking advantage of the "public investors"

I know everyone wants to cover this up because if we found out that the Pats "cheated" on a Super Bowl. To me it would be on par with the gambling issue of the "Black Soxs"in baseball.

That said I hope that the Patriots did not "cheat" to win the Super Bowl.

And I love how Pats fans say its ok to Cheat or that it is a different level of cheating, yet in baseball using steroids which is cheating is totally different?

I'm fairly certain, as gambling as the "victim" in this case, that the Senate is not going to take up the gauntlet and defend Vegas' right to 'fair competition" You clearly get my point, and to stretch as far as gambling is akin to "public investors" is really a reach... like taking a K in the 4th reach.

 

[scott72]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

I have also been on this site since the beginning, and can tell you that for some reason Joe just doesn't like the Pats for whatever reason. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

News flash. Lots of people don't care for the New England Patriots..

Which is why so many don't really care about proof of allegations. Lets just hang 'em high on speculation.

No I don't think that's what people are saying. Nobody (as least I'm not) is ready to hang anybody. I'm just saying let's look into this a bit further. Pat fans want all this to go away without any subsequent investigation and I can see why.

 

[whoknew]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

If the NFL has the same anti-trust exemption that MLB has, as Spector has said it does, and Maurile Tremblay said they do not in another thread, then Congress has authority via the the anti-trust exemption to ensure that an unfair monopoly does not exist.

Arlen Specter said that? Really? He's wrong.