Congress punches NE Patriots* in the mouth (1 Viewer)

[bradyfan]

"ESPN's Sal Paolantonio says he talked to U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter this morning, and that Specter wants to know whether NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell spoke to Patriots quarterback Tom Brady as part of the league's spygate investigation."

I knew it! Spector is trying to get Brady to visit him at his office.

Don't do it, Tom!

 

[Joe Bryant]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

 

[Bill]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

If the NFL has the same anti-trust exemption that MLB has, as Spector has said it does, and Maurile Tremblay said they do not in another thread, then Congress has authority via the the anti-trust exemption to ensure that an unfair monopoly does not exist.

Arlen Specter said that? Really? He's wrong.

I would state it slightly differently --> Congress has authority to investigate this matter via the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. Congress has an interest in this matter due to the [non-legislative] anti-trust exemption the NFL enjoys (one recent example being the Clarett decision, noted above) (and with all due respect to Maurile's opinion to the contrary).Whether this is something the congress should be doing is another matter. Personally, I would prefer not to see our elected federal legislators focusing on such things, but I would probably say the same about most of their activity.

 

[{Syrus}]

I'm not big on congress getting into sports be it baseball or football. But, I'm glad to see at least one person outside of TMQB that didn't just give Goodell a high five free pass for destroying the evidence. That was a joke.J

Joe-Ive gotta say man, that Im incredibly disappointed to find you taking this particular stance and on this particular day. Ive supported your site for as long as its been around. Tough to say this, but this may be my last. Absolutely incredible that you'd fly the way of speculation and support this poster simply fishing to annoy on the day of the Superbowl. I cant understand you here for the life of me. But its your site, so do with it what you will. But bad, bad move.

1. Joe is entitled to his opinion, as are you, and as I am. 2. If Roger Goodell had wanted, this could have been handled sooner, rather than around SuperBowl time. Senator Specter mailed Goodell a letter in both Novembr and December and Goodell failed to respond.3. twitch

 

[fatness]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

 

[BusterTBronco]

Ive supported your site for as long as its been around.

Hmmm. Profile saysJoined: 10-July 07

 

[Max Power]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

It says a lot about Pats fans. If there was going to be an investigation into possible cheating during a Superbowl, I would hope fans would want to have this happen in order to clear up the teams name/image. However it seems some people want to fight this tooth and nail because they are afraid of what might come out. A true Pats fan should be all for an Investigation.

 

[mdog1967]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

If the NFL has the same anti-trust exemption that MLB has, as Spector has said it does, and Maurile Tremblay said they do not in another thread, then Congress has authority via the the anti-trust exemption to ensure that an unfair monopoly does not exist.

Arlen Specter said that? Really? He's wrong.

I would state it slightly differently --> Congress has authority to investigate this matter via the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. Congress has an interest in this matter due to the [non-legislative] anti-trust exemption the NFL enjoys (one recent example being the Clarett decision, noted above) (and with all due respect to Maurile's opinion to the contrary).Whether this is something the congress should be doing is another matter. Personally, I would prefer not to see our elected federal legislators focusing on such things, but I would probably say the same about most of their activity.

Your point on law in congress being able to investigate anything due to interstate commerce is correct. The problem for the congress is the NFL is a single entity. If the league existed as 32 separate leagues competing then the statute to investigate would prove meritorious. All teams come under the umbrella of the singular, in the case as one complete corporation known as the NFL. That one team could sue another would be akin to one Wal-Mart suing another Wal-Mart. If the league were to compete against other leagues even if for one game, the legal recourse would still prove tenuous. Proof of harm would have to be established to one party or another. The NFL in a sense could completely rig every game to produce a desired outcome and it would still be entirely legal. The NFL is a sporting event, but at its best it is entertainment. Just like WWF and RAW it is plain and simple entertainment. All interstate commerce statutes and laws require a plaintiff and a defendant. The Federal government cannot be the plaintiff because there is no law on the books prohibiting the destruction of documents not related to a criminal matter, or required to be kept like financial records. The individual cities could sue the NFL in order to receive monetary award if they could prove that the NFL had some how violated a law, in that a city prove that the NFL knowingly or thru negligence cost the city money based on the outcome of an individual game were cheating influenced the result. I don’t think it would ever happen, I don’t think any city would ever be able to make a successful argument.P.S However the Senate can hold a hearing on "anything" without cause. No statue or law prohibits the Senate from wasting tax payer resources on any type of hearing.

 

[Road Warriors]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

It says a lot about Pats fans. If there was going to be an investigation into possible cheating during a Superbowl, I would hope fans would want to have this happen in order to clear up the teams name/image. However it seems some people want to fight this tooth and nail because they are afraid of what might come out. A true Pats fan should be all for an Investigation.

NFL investigation into allegations. Sure. Senate Judiciary committee invesitgation? Not so much.Contrary to Mr. fatness's opinion, some Pats fans really just do think Specter is using his position and this opportunity to put the screws to the NFL for his favorite corporate contributor, Comcast.

So please, NFL, do the due diligence on the allegations. But will you all be willing to accept the outcome? Or, if it doesn't end up with any incriminating evidence, will you continue to beat your drum that there is still more to the story, we have't gotten to the bottom yet.

There is no end to this that will statisfy the bloodlust of a particular crowd other than more proof of cheating. If you get it, you're right. If none is found, well, we just need to keep looking. Its kinda like the WMDs in Iraq. Just keep looking.

 

[Max Power]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

It says a lot about Pats fans. If there was going to be an investigation into possible cheating during a Superbowl, I would hope fans would want to have this happen in order to clear up the teams name/image. However it seems some people want to fight this tooth and nail because they are afraid of what might come out. A true Pats fan should be all for an Investigation.

NFL investigation into allegations. Sure. Senate Judiciary committee invesitgation? Not so much.Contrary to Mr. fatness's opinion, some Pats fans really just do think Specter is using his position and this opportunity to put the screws to the NFL for his favorite corporate contributor, Comcast.

So please, NFL, do the due diligence on the allegations. But will you all be willing to accept the outcome? Or, if it doesn't end up with any incriminating evidence, will you continue to beat your drum that there is still more to the story, we have't gotten to the bottom yet.

There is no end to this that will statisfy the bloodlust of a particular crowd other than more proof of cheating. If you get it, you're right. If none is found, well, we just need to keep looking. Its kinda like the WMDs in Iraq. Just keep looking.

The issue with the NFL conducting the investigation is that the NFL will have an agenda in mind during the investigation. Regardless of the outcome, people will not see this as legit until the NFL can bring an outside organization to conduct this investigation. Look at how the Original "Spygate" turned out. Obviously some people don't think the Investigation was up to par and the "solution" was weak.As long as this Video Tech gets to come forward and speak the truth without the NFL or the Pats taking him to court, I will be happy with the outcome. However I don't see that happening.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

I understand what he's trying to say. I asked him how my stating the videotapes were evidence could possibly be "making his point"? Very different things.I'm not clouded at all. I simply wondered why Goodell got a free pass on destroying evidence and said I was glad to see someone besides the TMQB guy ask the same question. Pretty simple.J

 

[mdog1967]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

It says a lot about Pats fans. If there was going to be an investigation into possible cheating during a Superbowl, I would hope fans would want to have this happen in order to clear up the teams name/image. However it seems some people want to fight this tooth and nail because they are afraid of what might come out. A true Pats fan should be all for an Investigation.

NFL investigation into allegations. Sure. Senate Judiciary committee invesitgation? Not so much.Contrary to Mr. fatness's opinion, some Pats fans really just do think Specter is using his position and this opportunity to put the screws to the NFL for his favorite corporate contributor, Comcast.

So please, NFL, do the due diligence on the allegations. But will you all be willing to accept the outcome? Or, if it doesn't end up with any incriminating evidence, will you continue to beat your drum that there is still more to the story, we have't gotten to the bottom yet.

There is no end to this that will statisfy the bloodlust of a particular crowd other than more proof of cheating. If you get it, you're right. If none is found, well, we just need to keep looking. Its kinda like the WMDs in Iraq. Just keep looking.

The issue with the NFL conducting the investigation is that the NFL will have an agenda in mind during the investigation. Regardless of the outcome, people will not see this as legit until the NFL can bring an outside organization to conduct this investigation. Look at how the Original "Spygate" turned out. Obviously some people don't think the Investigation was up to par and the "solution" was weak.As long as this Video Tech gets to come forward and speak the truth without the NFL or the Pats taking him to court, I will be happy with the outcome. However I don't see that happening.

Will he be telling the truth?, that in its self is another question.

 

[mdog1967]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

I understand what he's trying to say. I asked him how my stating the videotapes were evidence could possibly be "making his point"? Very different things.I'm not clouded at all. I simply wondered why Goodell got a free pass on destroying evidence and said I was glad to see someone besides the TMQB guy ask the same question. Pretty simple.J

Because you keep referring to the tapes as evidence, which implies a violation of law, I believe that is the impression your trying to create. If it’s not J, then why should the congress be involved? My specific question about an apology relates to the credibility and statements now circulating by Mr. Walsh. If he cannot prove that he was involved in or taped the Rams prior to the super bowl, then are you implying that the Pats did it anyway? If they did not, and this is what this whole thread is about then are you going to apologize to the Pats nation that you were wrong, or are you going to stick with the Pats always cheat theme?Either way J, it doesn’t matter. But you’re the one who owns this site and the tenor and tone of your comments are a going be reflected in this board. I believe it is fine for you to have your bias, but acrimony develops when others perceive a double standard.

 

[Bill]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

I understand what he's trying to say. I asked him how my stating the videotapes were evidence could possibly be "making his point"? Very different things.I'm not clouded at all. I simply wondered why Goodell got a free pass on destroying evidence and said I was glad to see someone besides the TMQB guy ask the same question. Pretty simple.J

i cannot understand where you are coming from. you make it sound like he had a gun that was used in a robbery and he got rid of it. there was no law broken here-only a league rule. after one of the tapes was copied and released from the "nfl office" did goodell destroy the tapes. what was the point of keeping them?? was he planning on selling them on ebay??this is your site and you have the right to do whatever you want-but it doesn't make you right! this is a buisness blunder.

 

[Max Power]

I find it laughable at people who attack Senator Specter with the argument of "does he not have anything better to do?"

Many of them are not attacking Specter for that reason. That may be their stated reason, but in many cases it's not the real one. The real reason is that they do not want any further investigation of allegations of cheating by the Patriots, period. They'll attack anyone who wants to do that.

It says a lot about Pats fans. If there was going to be an investigation into possible cheating during a Superbowl, I would hope fans would want to have this happen in order to clear up the teams name/image. However it seems some people want to fight this tooth and nail because they are afraid of what might come out. A true Pats fan should be all for an Investigation.

NFL investigation into allegations. Sure. Senate Judiciary committee invesitgation? Not so much.Contrary to Mr. fatness's opinion, some Pats fans really just do think Specter is using his position and this opportunity to put the screws to the NFL for his favorite corporate contributor, Comcast.

So please, NFL, do the due diligence on the allegations. But will you all be willing to accept the outcome? Or, if it doesn't end up with any incriminating evidence, will you continue to beat your drum that there is still more to the story, we have't gotten to the bottom yet.

There is no end to this that will statisfy the bloodlust of a particular crowd other than more proof of cheating. If you get it, you're right. If none is found, well, we just need to keep looking. Its kinda like the WMDs in Iraq. Just keep looking.

The issue with the NFL conducting the investigation is that the NFL will have an agenda in mind during the investigation. Regardless of the outcome, people will not see this as legit until the NFL can bring an outside organization to conduct this investigation. Look at how the Original "Spygate" turned out. Obviously some people don't think the Investigation was up to par and the "solution" was weak.As long as this Video Tech gets to come forward and speak the truth without the NFL or the Pats taking him to court, I will be happy with the outcome. However I don't see that happening.

Will he be telling the truth?, that in its self is another question.

Which is another reason why Congress should get involved

 

[scoobygang]

I would state it slightly differently --> Congress has authority to investigate this matter via the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. Congress has an interest in this matter due to the [non-legislative] anti-trust exemption the NFL enjoys (one recent example being the Clarett decision, noted above) (and with all due respect to Maurile's opinion to the contrary).

Whether this is something the congress should be doing is another matter. Personally, I would prefer not to see our elected federal legislators focusing on such things, but I would probably say the same about most of their activity.

I think when we start talking about the "NFL's antitrust immunity" we're going to confuse a lot of people. As I understand it, there are a few things to keep in mind.1. Football certainly doesn't share baseball's traditional antitrust immunity established in Federal Baseball and affirmed in Toolson and Flood. Radovich is directly on point and the SCOTUS refused to extend it to football.

2. Whatever limited exemption the NFL (and other sports leagues) do have seems to be based on a labor exemption theory. Essentially where terms subject to collective bargaining between the player's unions and the league can't be challenged by antitrust law. Could Congress fashion some type of law to do mischief to that? I suppose, but the only way I can imagine it striking to the heart of the NFL would be by somehow undoing the draft. Seems pretty unlikely to me.

I don't doubt Specter's ability to hold hearings. I do doubt that Congress has any bite to go with the bark.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that. The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

I understand what he's trying to say. I asked him how my stating the videotapes were evidence could possibly be "making his point"? Very different things.I'm not clouded at all. I simply wondered why Goodell got a free pass on destroying evidence and said I was glad to see someone besides the TMQB guy ask the same question. Pretty simple.J

Because you keep referring to the tapes as evidence, which implies a violation of law, I believe that is the impression your trying to create.

The tapes were evidence of a violation of the rules. Not law. The evidence resulted in the harshest penalty in league history. Is that hard to understand?J

 

[BusterTBronco]

Punched in da mouf!

Can't help but wonder if the spygate controversy finally caught up with the Pats psyche.

 

[{Syrus}]

Now that the Giants have destroyed the Patriots, the U.S. Senate will get sloppy seconds.

 

[{Syrus}]

Patriots will be 18-2 after the Senate lines up and applies the heat.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

The Patriots may go 19-0, but they will not be undefeated. Congressional hearings will put that asterisk on all of heir championships.

Congressional hearings? For supposedly (not even allegedly) violating a league rule?

The Patriots did violate league rules, that's a fact. Hence, that largest fine issued by the league in NFL history. Why Goodell took it upon himself to quickly destroy all evidence is the matter at hand. And with a witness coming forward we're only at the tip of this iceberg.

Coming forward? I thought he was cowering in Hawaii.

If Congress subpoenas him and offers immunity, all will be told. Until then, why incriminate himself, though he obviously has something to share and thats why he has been talking.

IMMUNITY FROM WHAT?!?!I would LOVE to hear Senator Specter's justification for how he has the power to investigate this.

If the NFL has the same anti-trust exemption that MLB has, as Spector has said it does, and Maurile Tremblay said they do not in another thread, then Congress has authority via the the anti-trust exemption to ensure that an unfair monopoly does not exist.

Arlen Specter said that? Really? He's wrong.

I would state it slightly differently --> Congress has authority to investigate this matter via the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. Congress has an interest in this matter due to the [non-legislative] anti-trust exemption the NFL enjoys (one recent example being the Clarett decision, noted above) (and with all due respect to Maurile's opinion to the contrary).Whether this is something the congress should be doing is another matter. Personally, I would prefer not to see our elected federal legislators focusing on such things, but I would probably say the same about most of their activity.

Your point on law in congress being able to investigate anything due to interstate commerce is correct. The problem for the congress is the NFL is a single entity. If the league existed as 32 separate leagues competing then the statute to investigate would prove meritorious. All teams come under the umbrella of the singular, in the case as one complete corporation known as the NFL. That one team could sue another would be akin to one Wal-Mart suing another Wal-Mart. If the league were to compete against other leagues even if for one game, the legal recourse would still prove tenuous. Proof of harm would have to be established to one party or another. The NFL in a sense could completely rig every game to produce a desired outcome and it would still be entirely legal. The NFL is a sporting event, but at its best it is entertainment. Just like WWF and RAW it is plain and simple entertainment. All interstate commerce statutes and laws require a plaintiff and a defendant. The Federal government cannot be the plaintiff because there is no law on the books prohibiting the destruction of documents not related to a criminal matter, or required to be kept like financial records. The individual cities could sue the NFL in order to receive monetary award if they could prove that the NFL had some how violated a law, in that a city prove that the NFL knowingly or thru negligence cost the city money based on the outcome of an individual game were cheating influenced the result. I don’t think it would ever happen, I don’t think any city would ever be able to make a successful argument.P.S However the Senate can hold a hearing on "anything" without cause. No statue or law prohibits the Senate from wasting tax payer resources on any type of hearing.

is this a Woz alias? Even on this board, it rare to see a post so confused and yet still completely wrong on the few points it tries to make.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

I would state it slightly differently --> Congress has authority to investigate this matter via the interstate commerce clause of the constitution. Congress has an interest in this matter due to the [non-legislative] anti-trust exemption the NFL enjoys (one recent example being the Clarett decision, noted above) (and with all due respect to Maurile's opinion to the contrary).

Whether this is something the congress should be doing is another matter. Personally, I would prefer not to see our elected federal legislators focusing on such things, but I would probably say the same about most of their activity.

I think when we start talking about the "NFL's antitrust immunity" we're going to confuse a lot of people. As I understand it, there are a few things to keep in mind.1. Football certainly doesn't share baseball's traditional antitrust immunity established in Federal Baseball and affirmed in Toolson and Flood. Radovich is directly on point and the SCOTUS refused to extend it to football.

2. Whatever limited exemption the NFL (and other sports leagues) do have seems to be based on a labor exemption theory. Essentially where terms subject to collective bargaining between the player's unions and the league can't be challenged by antitrust law. Could Congress fashion some type of law to do mischief to that? I suppose, but the only way I can imagine it striking to the heart of the NFL would be by somehow undoing the draft. Seems pretty unlikely to me.

I don't doubt Specter's ability to hold hearings. I do doubt that Congress has any bite to go with the bark.

I agree Scooby, but this has to be what Specter is referring to when he says he will go after the NFL anti-trust exemption. He must be speaking of new federal legislation to eliminate the court-made exemption relating to collective bargaining.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Will you apologize to the Pats Joe if it turns out Matt Walsh is not being truthfull?

Will I apologize for what? The tapes were absolutely evidence. Goodell destroyed them. Not sure any of that is in question.J

Again Joe, what evidence are you talking about? It was league property and as such left for the NFL to determine its disposition. Your hubris is entirely out of character, I’m starting to doubt that your actually the one posting these comments.

The video tapes of course that showed the proof Goodell needed to levy one of the heaviest fines and penalties in league history. What evidence do you think they're talking about?J

Your making my point Joe, the league took care of an internal matter due to a violation of League policy. Congress is going to do what? Put the League on double secret probation? What law exactly is it under US code that Mr. Goodell potentially violated in destroying what was his to destroy? There was no criminal violation, the NFL could have interpreted what the Pats did this year as fair game. The Pats were doing it out in the open and were caught. The NFL then ruled that the taping was a violation of League rules. Pats were punished. It is the end of that chapter and all the pontificating grand standing by the congress is just that.

The facts of the Matt Walsh allegations are just that, allegations. They are for the NFL to investigate and would still not constitute an investigation by the congress. If in the course of the NFL's investigation the league determined that a law was broken it could then refer the matter to the justice department. It is a great stretch to move violation of a businesses own internal rules to that of a criminal conspiracy, at most it would be for the NFL to take the Pats to civil court for damages. But even then why? The league can take as much money from the Pats as they want.

If the integrity of the game is an issue then it is the fans who need to stop buying the product until the NFL cleans up its act. I don’t think the NFL has done anything to warrant such fan outrage, but others would obviously disagree.

How can stating the videotapes were evidence possibly be "making your point"? J

i think you should reread it joe-he made his point very clearly. you seem to be the one with clouded thoughts.

I understand what he's trying to say. I asked him how my stating the videotapes were evidence could possibly be "making his point"? Very different things.

I'm not clouded at all. I simply wondered why Goodell got a free pass on destroying evidence and said I was glad to see someone besides the TMQB guy ask the same question. Pretty simple.

J

Because you keep referring to the tapes as evidence, which implies a violation of law, I believe that is the impression your trying to create.

The tapes were evidence of a violation of the rules. Not law. The evidence resulted in the harshest penalty in league history. Is that hard to understand?J

From the latest Easterbrook article:Think Congress has no business investigating sports? Most NFL teams play in publicly subsidized stadiums, and NFL games are aired over public airwaves controlled by federal licenses. The licenses, among other things, prohibit any pre-arrangement or artifice in what is presented as live competition. If a Super Bowl were affected by cheating, that would be a legitimate matter of concern to Congress. Plus, the recent lesson learned via baseball and steroids was that Major League Baseball did not clean up its own house until Congress put some pressure on.

Anti-Trust Laws. So it could very well be a violation of the laws.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story...mp;sportCat=nfl

 

[fatness]

From the latest Easterbrook article:

That is a very informative article, thanks for posting the link. It presents a timeline of what was said and done, and explains why there have been serious questions all along about the tapes, the destruction of the tapes, and the lack of any further investigation by the NFL. Link again to Easterbrook article

 

[mdog1967]

is this a Woz alias? Even on this board, it rare to see a post so confused and yet still completely wrong on the few points it tries to make.

I'll make it easy for you.

1. You can play it any way you want to, there is no violation of the law. It’s not debatable.

2. The Senate can have a hearing on anything

3. And most important:

It is worth noting that Senator Specter's second biggest campaign contributor is Comcast, who just happens to be in a bitter dispute with the NFL. And that is documented fact.

So you and Joe can play word games all day and try like heck to concoct a plausible legal scenario. In the end that dog wont hunt.