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Could the best college team beat a CFL team? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter John Mamula
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John Mamula
Moderator
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">I couldn't have said it better myself.
Jack Burton
Footballguy
you're a ### . In fact anyone who subscribes to the same logic is a ridiculous moron.CFL is not real football? Please define what real football is.Two different games, but a CFL team is build on defense and is a passing game more than NFL ball. It would not happen - so why discuss it?But that's not really football though is it?
And I still think even with the CFL rules it would be close. Nobody could guard Bush or Young in the CFL.
I disagree. I think there are 10-20 college programs that could compete in the CFL. The collegiate teams would definitely have the advantage at the skill positions, and the top college teams won't be undersized.I don't think that there is any question that those teams could compete.
Could every player on a BCS team make the NFL or CFL? No.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
Keep in mind that we are still in the afterglow of the draft when everyone taken in first three rounds is a star. The reality will set in soon that more than half those guys will never be more than special teamers and back ups at best. Every year people freak out about how talented some of these college players are. Truth be told well over half the guys drafted would have a hard starting in the CFL. But the euphoria of great college production is still in the air.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Sure they can. Not every time, and they wouldn't be favored, but there's no reason to think that a prepared college team is physically incapable of beating an NFL team. Bear in mind we're not talking about some kind of abstract game here. We're talking about a real football game, with college kids playing at their top level trying to beat the pros, while the pros are certainly less likely to get up for the game.
J-Rock
Footballguy
You are such an arrogant #####. I've had seasons tix to 2 CFL teams over the past 3 years while being an avid NFL and NCAA fan. I watch an average of 2 NCAA games each Saturday and I can tell you that you Yankees who think your game is so superior have a lot to learn.First of all, last season CFL teams averaged 22 fumbles per SEASON. Each team plays 18 games / season that's 1.2 fumbles/ game/ team. That means in a bad game you might see up to 3 fumbles total.
Your take about floating passes is way off base too. Last year CFL QB's averaged a completion % of 62.5%. The top 25 nfl QB’s who played in at lest 12 games averaged 59.2% Which means you are going to see a higher % of complete passes in a CFL game than in an NFL game, let alone college.
Third, I think everyone underestimates the importance of the run in the CFL. Consider this:
All time rushing leaders:
Emmitt Smith - 18,355
Walter Payton - 16,726
Mike Pringle - 16425
Jim Brown - 12,312
Here's the bottom line...
MARKETING!!!
The USA does a supreme job of marketing it's game which creates the opinion that even the NCAA is better than the CFL or NFLE.
The majority of NCAA div 1 athletes will not play pro football in any league.
The CFL wins hands down.
FreeBaGeL, do your homework before you start lipping off like you know what you are talking about. Your kind of arrogance is what gives Americans a bad image all over the world.
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
I think this is where you are to put up this sign.
Wadsworth
Footballguy
It happens every year and every year I am surprised at how many people fall for it all over again. The bottomline is that most of the guys you've been following in the draft and I've been following in the draft are crappy football players. The vast majority of them stink and will never be more than cup of coffee guys in the NFL. Some of them will eventually go to Canada and most of them will bust in Canada as well because they are not good football players. The CFL is no where near the NFL. But those are at least guys that can keep a job. Plenty of American college superstars bust in Canada.
John Mamula
Moderator
3 fumbles in a game is a lot.
John Mamula
Moderator
What does it prove that Mike Pringle rushed for 16k yards against inferior talent?
,S
,S
John Mamula
Moderator
Does the CFL rush as much as the NFL?
John Mamula
Moderator
That's sort of what I was thinking.That Bush, White, Portis, Gore and McGahee would rush for 36K?
Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
That's sort of what I was thinking.That Bush, White, Portis, Gore and McGahee would rush for 36K?
SSOG
Moderator
What about the college rule variations? Stopping the clock after every 1st down, only needing to get 1 foot inbounds on receptions, the play stopping the second your knee is down (whether there's contact or not). Are these derived to garner interest due to the inferior talent on the field?What if there were a high school program that adopted the official NFL rules. Would that program suddenly have better talent than a CFL team, because they use NFL rules? No, of course not, and suggesting that the differences are just to hide an inferior talent base is as ludicrous as suggesting that different accents all exist to hide inferior intelligence. What happens is that, if you take a concept and isolate it into two separate areas, that concept will evolve differently in each area. In America, this concept ("football") has evolved into NFL-rules football. In Canada, it has evolved into Canadian-rules football.
Talking about Canadian-rules football as if the rules were invented as a "gimmick" is just disrespectful. The rules in American football are constantly changing, too... does that mean that current American football is a "gimmick", or previous American football was a "gimmick"? Heck no. It just means that rules change and evolve and become what they become.
Well, in all fairness, a player doesn't have to play in the NFL to be better than a CFL player- since CFL players are all themselves players who couldn't make it in the NFL. Just being drafted indicates that a player is probably more talented than the majority of CFLers.Also, I'm not sure that you're aware of it, but there's a foreigner cap in the CFL (basically, if you're not Canadian, you count two roster spots instead of just one). As a result, there are a *lot* of NCAA standouts who never make it to the CFL. This just adds a whole extra layer of NCAA player who is better than the average CFLer. You've got the future-NFL success, the future-NFL bust, and the future-"Not quite good enough to be an NFLer and also doesn't wind up in the CFL because of the roster caps".
With that said, I think it's ludicrous to suggest that a college team could compete with a CFL team in a CFL-rules game. The college passing game just isn't ready for 3-down football against talented and experienced defenses. I would say that no NCAA team would ever stand a chance against a CFL team... except I'm not so certain.
*IF* the NCAA team was just brimming with NFL-caliber talent (I'm thinking of USC and their NFL-caliber OLine and Dline, specifically)... and *IF* the NCAA team had a true superstud RB (again, I'm thinking of USC with Reggie Bush, or maybe the Miami teams with Portis or McGahee)... and *IF* the NCAA team came up with a very specific gameplan designed to attack the weaknesses of a CFL team... and *IF* the game was played with NCAA rules... then and only then do I think an NCAA team would be able to stand a chance against the CFL team. Not that they'd win, just that it'd make for a very interesting game. On the one hand, the CFL team's passing offense would carve the college defense up. On the other hand, if the college team just got their massive hulking linemen and ridiculously talented RBs and ran 80+% of the time, then I think their offense would just as easily carve up the CFL defense. I think then it'd just be a matter of who could get the key turnovers.
Basically, I'm envisioning a team with Miami's talent (the team that won 30+ straight, not the current Miami squad) combined with Minnesota's offensive gameplan. I think they could at least stay competitive against a CFL squad. I'd still place my money on the CFLers, because 28 year olds are in a lot better physical shape than 21 year olds, but I think the game would be very interesting to see. Sort of a contrast in styles.
Again, you're speaking out of ignorance. The CFL has a rule that each non-Canadian counts two roster spaces instead of just 1. I forget how many roster spaces they have, exactly, but I think it's 40 or so. They also have 12 starters on offense or defense. It'd be possible to have a team where 90+% were foreigners (19 Americans and 2 Canadians)... but half the team would be starting on both offense and defense, and you wouldn't have any backups.
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
You have never watched a single game...how can you agree with him. ######.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Do you consider CFL players professional athletes? Its hard for me to consider a guy a true professional when he makes less money than I do which would be the case for 90% of the CFL.
When I played Semi-Pro football, we got paid $50 each for a win and $0 for a loss, were we professionals because we were being paid? Would a college team have stood no chance against us because our ages ranged from 22-38 and had been playing for 5-10 years together and they were all from 18-21?
If talent is somewhat equal then experience is a key component. If one team or player is SO much more talented then I dont care if the lesser talent has been playing for 10 years.
When I played Semi-Pro football, we got paid $50 each for a win and $0 for a loss, were we professionals because we were being paid? Would a college team have stood no chance against us because our ages ranged from 22-38 and had been playing for 5-10 years together and they were all from 18-21?
If talent is somewhat equal then experience is a key component. If one team or player is SO much more talented then I dont care if the lesser talent has been playing for 10 years.
John Mamula
Moderator
I'm 31. I don't think I could play against D 1 athletes.
John Mamula
Moderator
Let's not get crazy.
TLEF316
Footballguy
Top college teams in a heartbeat. CFL is a professional league, but that doesnt mean they are better. Texas or USC has too many athletes and would have a massive size advantage in the trenches.
CFL supporters argue that the CFL is a passing league and that as a result, CFL DB's would be able to shut down college passing games. This is ridiculus. First of all, the CFL lines would get blown off the ball by a team like Texas or USC, so they probably wouldnt even need to pass. Yes, its only 2 downs and then punt, but guys like Bush, White or young would abuse the CFL linebackers, making 2 downs instead of 3 a moot point.
IF the college team ever had to pass, they would still dominate. Yeah, CFL DB's have alot of experience covering WR's on a bigger field, but who are they covering.... guys that dont have the skills to even sniff the NFL. Please dont give me the "they have the skills, just not the size" argument because that is bologne. Smaller recievers can suceed in the NFL, so if the CFL guys were good enough, they would have had their shot. Leinert or young would pick apart the CFL defenses, and young would shred them on the ground as well. I cant even imagine some slow small canadian LB trying to play contain on young. He'd be humiliated on every play.
Canadian Football is a professional league with pro players. They have had some solid imports to the NFL. But to say that they are better just because the field is larger and they have more experience is ludicris. The talent and size gaps are far too large. Add in superior coaching and you have an easy win for a top collegiete program.
edit: this is assuming they even played by CFL rues
CFL supporters argue that the CFL is a passing league and that as a result, CFL DB's would be able to shut down college passing games. This is ridiculus. First of all, the CFL lines would get blown off the ball by a team like Texas or USC, so they probably wouldnt even need to pass. Yes, its only 2 downs and then punt, but guys like Bush, White or young would abuse the CFL linebackers, making 2 downs instead of 3 a moot point.
IF the college team ever had to pass, they would still dominate. Yeah, CFL DB's have alot of experience covering WR's on a bigger field, but who are they covering.... guys that dont have the skills to even sniff the NFL. Please dont give me the "they have the skills, just not the size" argument because that is bologne. Smaller recievers can suceed in the NFL, so if the CFL guys were good enough, they would have had their shot. Leinert or young would pick apart the CFL defenses, and young would shred them on the ground as well. I cant even imagine some slow small canadian LB trying to play contain on young. He'd be humiliated on every play.
Canadian Football is a professional league with pro players. They have had some solid imports to the NFL. But to say that they are better just because the field is larger and they have more experience is ludicris. The talent and size gaps are far too large. Add in superior coaching and you have an easy win for a top collegiete program.
edit: this is assuming they even played by CFL rues
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J-Rock
Footballguy
Just a side note on this topic. NCAA supporters kepp mentioning names like Bush and Young. These are 2 very special players who don't come along very often. You can't just pick the top college athletes of the past decade and say that NCAA wins because of the superior talent of 1-2 guys. There have been phenominal talents in the CFL too at given points in time.
There are now 8 CFL teams.
Here is a list of the top 8 BCS teams of last year:
1 Southern California
2 Texas
3 Penn State
4 Ohio State
5 Oregon
6 Notre Dame
7 Georgia
8 Miami (Fla.)
How many dominant players are there here who are capable of taking over a game?
There are now 8 CFL teams.
Here is a list of the top 8 BCS teams of last year:
1 Southern California
2 Texas
3 Penn State
4 Ohio State
5 Oregon
6 Notre Dame
7 Georgia
8 Miami (Fla.)
How many dominant players are there here who are capable of taking over a game?
J-Rock
Footballguy
The amount of $ a pro athlete makes has so little to do with talent. It has to do with MARKETING. the CFL does not make nearly the money the NFL or even NCAA makes. Therefore it can't afford to pay its players as much. Pro athletes dont make the money they do because they are so talented. I would argue that surgens, architects, Ninjas
, and Fire eaters 
are more talented than pro athletes. But they don't make their employers nearly as much money as athletes do. If I as a business owner could make $30 million/ year off a no talent clerk, I'd happily pay them $7 Million/ year.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Statements like "you yankees" clearly indicate to me that you're watching games with national bias. Despite your arrogant insinuations as to the opposite, I have no motives to look at this "as an American" and put down another nation's sport just because they're another nation. I can tell you simply put after watching many CFL games that it's just not very good football. I don't say this as an American, I say it as a football fan. I'm sorry, but a top college football program would run circles around several of those CFL teams.
larry_boy_44
Footballguy
it depends...I said "yes" because they can... not because I don't htink the CFL team is better...You're right, but it doesn't seem like much of a debate:
Yes [ 71 ] ** [65.14%]No [ 38 ] ** [34.86%]
fridayfrenzy
Footballguy
I think its what country of residence you are, not where you were born.
Mahoney
Footballguy
People that argue that elite college teams could beat any CFL teams are likely the type of group that would argue the Moon is bigger than Saturn.
"What are you talking about? Even a half moon is huge compared to Saturn! Look how tiny it is...looks like a small star!"
Just clueless.
"What are you talking about? Even a half moon is huge compared to Saturn! Look how tiny it is...looks like a small star!"
Just clueless.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'm 23. That doesn't mean I can tackle 15 year old Noel Divine.Guys like Winston Justice, Lendale White, Dwayne Jarrett, Matt Leinart are all just as large (if not larger) as guys at the same positions in the CFL.
The difference? They're also infinitely more talented, and infinitely better coached.
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On average a division one, D1, program has 1-2 players that grade out with NFL talent. That includes all teams listed in D1. NFL talent defined as a player that is good enough to get an invite to the combine; get drafted and play on Sundays. The playing ability of those 1-2 players against their immediate peers (team mates) and peers (other D1 players) is evident. There is a W-I-D-E gap between the two groups and that is not just reserved for the suggested difference makers or game breakers. If you ever get a chance, go watch a college team practice. Within a few plays it is very easy to spot the better players, if you know what you are looking for with each snap. It is fairly clear in a game also. It goes without saying that the teams you listed, which are football factories, have many more players than 1-2 with NFL talent. Including underclassmen and red-shirts a Miami, FSU, Texas, Ohio State or USC probably has 1-3 kids per class with that type of talent. Let's just say there are 2 per class and give each program 10 kids with NFL caliber ability. We nearly have a starting line-up of talent in numbers but obviously I am not suggesting this mirror positions. We already have 10 kids, though, that could in theory play for an NFL team.
Trust that that out of that group 1-3 will exhibit above average to superior skill at their position. Now, we have 10 players that can play on Sundays and anywhere from 1-3 that will be very good to great. What about the majority of all the other players in D1?
Well, those guys are playing in the NFLE; CFL; AFL or in semi-pro leagues scattered around North America. They did not grade nor did the rate an invite to the Combine. They did not get a camp invite or FA contract. They did not have the talent to go from Saturday to Sunday.
The only edge the CFL team is going to have is their physical maturity and an advantage if a Candian field and rules are used. Even the physical maturity might not be that large of a factor, given that the Texas and Notre Dame's of the world won't even look at an offensive lineman unless he is on the other side of 300 pounds and a freakish all around athlete. I am not sure the speed the CLF defensive or offensive lineman possess would necessarily be enough to negate that size difference over the course of an entire game. Eventually, the size or lack thereof would make a difference.
That physical maturity difference will not be a factor once you cross into skill position players. You can either play WR or RB or you cannot. Being a couple years older is not going to make that much of a difference in how the player responds in the game. For an example, look at Fitzgerald's age and performance in college and the NFL. He was very young by NFL standards and, well, he seems to be doing ok.
QB could be debated but how much better are the CB and S in the CLF versus the same players a Young saw in practice every day? Dig up the players Texas has had on the side of the ball the last few years. How much better are the CFL defensive lineman than the same positional players that Leinart practiced against? Check out what USC put into the draft on defense recently. What is the difference between the defensive backfield S. Holmes ran against at OSU versus what he might see in this match-up? OSU pumping out some decent defenders too.
The majority of the players these guys faced in practice are better than the competition the CFL team would provide, opinion. Who they faced on any given Saturday, though, is up for debate, as the Kansas States and Armies of the world are not stocked with top prospects.
It would be close and, if this game is played 10 times, I think the college team ends up winning 6/7 times. The difference in talent between the 10 players with NFL talent and 1-3 players with good to great skills would eventually win out. Essentially, they would be playing against the same skill level they already face on Saturdays and excel against. A few years of physical growth or playing experience would not be enough to negate the difference in talent each time out.
The games would most likely be close but I think the college program wins at or around 65% of the time.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Sure. But the question isn't WOULD they win, or would you bet on them to win. It's COULD they win. And the answer is an unqualified yes. A college team that was well prepared could beat an NFL team, and it wouldn't even be that shocking when they did.
bostonfred
Footballguy
It doesn't matter which school is playing which CFL team, what the weather conditions are, what time of year they play, or if there are any injuries on either team. If a college team played a CFL team, the score would always be 56-38.I looked at the roster of the Montreal Alouettes, the loser of the last Grey Cup. About 90% of the players are from NCAA schools, some of them are from traditional college powerhouse schools. Look at the roster of any CFL team and you will see many players were originally drafted by the NFL or started their career in the NFL. It would seem to me that, since the vast majority of CFL players came from NCAA teams, that they were likely among the more talented players on their respective college teams (but not talented enough to play in NFL).
Examples on the Alouettes are:
Sultan McCullough RB- 2,800 career yards at USC - 8th alltime USC career rusher (33rd alltime for Pac-10). He's not good enough to be in the NFL, but he was a star (not superstar or elite) college player. He was not drafted by the NFL, but did make the roster for the Redskins and Browns.
Robert Edwards - RB - yeah, the ex-Patriot that blew out his knee at the beach -- from Georgia is also on the roster for the Alouettes. He was clearly talented enough to be in the NFL until his injury -- and didn't he make a comeback
Kerry Watkins - WR - Georgia Tech's second leading all-time receiver. Played one game for the Patriots.
If the CFL is populated with guys like this, then I'd say they could beat ANY college team, even USC, Texas, Miami (of 2001), etc. While those teams may have some NFL superstars, I don't believe they have the same quality of players, top to bottom, as a CFL team.
Examples on the Alouettes are:
Sultan McCullough RB- 2,800 career yards at USC - 8th alltime USC career rusher (33rd alltime for Pac-10). He's not good enough to be in the NFL, but he was a star (not superstar or elite) college player. He was not drafted by the NFL, but did make the roster for the Redskins and Browns.
Robert Edwards - RB - yeah, the ex-Patriot that blew out his knee at the beach -- from Georgia is also on the roster for the Alouettes. He was clearly talented enough to be in the NFL until his injury -- and didn't he make a comeback
Kerry Watkins - WR - Georgia Tech's second leading all-time receiver. Played one game for the Patriots.
If the CFL is populated with guys like this, then I'd say they could beat ANY college team, even USC, Texas, Miami (of 2001), etc. While those teams may have some NFL superstars, I don't believe they have the same quality of players, top to bottom, as a CFL team.
ChampBailey24
Footballguy
Right...because so far bagger hasn't been biased. The guy has never watched a CFL game.
John Mamula
Moderator
But I know the players who play in the CFL. I watched many of McCullough's games at USC live. He can't hit a hole to save his life.
He was a NFL washout that even the pourous USC defense could contain.
He was a NFL washout that even the pourous USC defense could contain.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
It doesn't matter what Vince Young could do to a CFL defense, EVERY CFL quarterback could do the same to any college defense.
The people who haven't watched both a CFL and an NCAA game have no business being in this thread but what can be expected from arrogant blowhards like bagger and Capella.
The people who haven't watched both a CFL and an NCAA game have no business being in this thread but what can be expected from arrogant blowhards like bagger and Capella.
please....one could have said warren moon was unstopable in the c.f.l and no defender in college could have defended that, how about a college linebacker trying to get a hold on charles roberts. or a d-back defending milt stegall....these c.f.l players are prfossional men where as college teams are made up of students in which 80% of every team wouldnt even make the c.f.l
John Mamula
Moderator
Wadsworth
Footballguy
That's not that crazy a statement. For example I completely believe that Tracy Ham in 1997 could have destroyed NCAA teams if he was allowed to play for any major college program. A lot of the CFL guys are very good football players and a lot of the NCAA players that get hyped to no end are not good football players.
