Could you not arrange smaller social interactions for her? I know I've said it before, but it seems like there are lots of steps that can be taken between isolating kids (not saying that is what you are doing, but I know many that are) and putting them in a classroom with 20+ other kids who are taking various levels of precautions thus exponentially increasing the risk to our children (and the family members they are in contact with) - something simple like having 3 of her friends over to play in the backyard (or, if you have a pool, to go swimming for a bit), or head down to a park to play. Obviously those activities are not 100% risk free, but they are still much less risky than sitting in an enclosed space with a bunch of people, and they still give the social interaction.
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Covid and School This Fall (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
Otis
Footballguy
Yes we do those things, and she sees only her few closest friends, on occasion. Obviously being in with the class in school is a different ballgame.
Definitely agree - we have been doing similar - each of the kids has a small group of friends that they see regularly. Though with the rates of infection here in California and the CDPH guidelines, we're not yet at a spot where we have to make the decision about returning in class, and I would guess we won't be in that spot anytime soon.
Well, yeah, It's their job. Plenty of others are doing their job while exposing themselves to risk. Heck, a lot of us are working and taking a risk.
That being said, they NEED to be provided a safe environment and PPE.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I agree with that unless we are talking the concern over the safety of the entire school and outside community. I really don’t want to see a bunch of my students get this disease that we still don’t know that much about or the long term effects of. I don’t want to see them take it home either. Schools aren’t like most jobs. Schools basically invite the entire community in to mix and mingle at very close quarters, share desks, calculators, pencils, etc. It’s not the same as going into a factory or office job. Yes I do want to go back to work but I’m also worried about both getting sick myself and also creating a potential major outbreak in my community.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This would be fine. Less teachers to pay in a year that we will need fewer teachers.
Announce everybody going back. Have teachers walk off. Then learning will go remote where obviously we dont need very many teachers.
It is all going remote anyway because as soon as two kids test positive, no matter how they caught it, schools will close.
matuski
Footballguy
From a business perspective, this probably couldn't workout better for the private school. Doing them a favor right now.
eta - weird time to quit imo.
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The Gator
Footballguy
How did that happen?
I assume you think teachers can handle more students if they are not in the classroom.
I'd love to hear from some of our teachers on that - how many more students should they expect to pick up this year?
I suspect a teacher's workload does not diminish, simply because a class is on-line. There are still assignments/tests to grade, and answering questions from students is probably more time consuming now - and I suspect teachers will hear more from parents than they do in a typical year.
I know you are just trolling here - but losing the experience of teachers is almost never a good thing.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Shut up with the trolling accusations. It is tiring.
Whether a teacher's "workload" doesnt diminish doesnt matter to me. That is common in all industries. You think warehouse employees admit that in times of slowdowns when they are still punching 40 hours that they slacked half the day at work?
matuski
Footballguy
This is becoming the default response when people on this board have differing opinions/perspectives.
Lazy as hell.
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shadyridr
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
Please.
You can't take anyone seriously when they say we need fewer teachers now.
Its not about a difference of opinion. Its simply trolling.
matuski
Footballguy
Why can't you take them seriously?
Because you disagree?
Like I said.. this is the new default. Lazy af. No effort to engage or understand why/how they have that opinion... just accuse TROLL and problem solved - no more effort required!
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The Gator
Footballguy
I asked the question - maybe you have the answer - in what world do we need fewer teachers this year?
matuski
Footballguy
These would be great questions to ask before accusing someone of trolling, right? And I didn't make the claim, but off the top of my head I could imagine:
Private schools that see enrollment drop.
Teachers are able to record their lessons/lectures for archiving/reuse.
eta - I know there are almost a dozen families in my neighborhood going the homeschool route this fall.
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The Gator
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
From what I've gleaned teachers in poor performing low income districts had a lot of down time in spring and anticipate the same should they be remote in fall. More is/was demanded of all other demos. If anyone wants to argue about cutting teachers in those poor performing, low income districts then that'd probably be best for that other forum.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Because this would be a future time saver I expect bad/lazy teachers to do something like this. A good teacher would never consider it though. Sure, veterans already have established lessons at their disposal, but they adapt them for their current environment.
matuski
Footballguy
So we can agree, your (collectively our) posting is better off without going to the troll tactic.... makes your post and questions seem insincere.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
The same people complaining that remote instruction was a disaster in the spring now arguing that remote learning requires fewer teachers. Good to know we've got our best minds working on these issues. 
matuski
Footballguy
There are many examples in this world where you can achieve addition by subtraction.The same people complaining that remote instruction was a disaster in the spring now arguing that remote learning requires fewer teachers. Good to know we've got our best minds working on these issues.
Again - not my claim, but it isn't too far fetched to imagine a scenario where you could improve in this manner if a good portion of the teachers struggle with the remote format.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Except, if anything, more teachers are needed. Some may get sick. If we are talking hybrid, there may be a need for teachers to tech a class online and a teacher to teach the same course in person.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Certainly possible that over the next 10-20 years we transition to a model where technology enables us to provide students with a better education while employing fewer teachers.
It is not at all plausible to believe education would be better with fewer teachers four weeks from now.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
In fact I would argue that the "trolling" position would be to argue that in a remote learning environment with X dollars to spend that the best allocation of dollars involves spending the exact same amount on teachers.
Blick
Footballguy
I can only speak for myself, but I was mostly not impressed with my daughters' (7th and 10th grade) remote learning in the spring. My youngest had about 4 hours of work each week with no contact with her teachers. My oldest had two teachers that did a pretty good job. They met a couple times a week online to go over questions and review homework. The rest were non-existent and checked out. I know I have to give the benefit of any doubt to the teachers for being in a new situation, but many didn't even try. While I don't think I'd advocate for less teachers, I think some accountability is absolutely necessary.The same people complaining that remote instruction was a disaster in the spring now arguing that remote learning requires fewer teachers. Good to know we've got our best minds working on these issues.
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Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
I'm aware that everyone's had different experiences. Right off the bat, some people live in crummy towns with bad schools, and I expect their educational experience during quarantine was worse than in my town, just like it's worse in normal years. Surely some of the debate is colored by those different perspectives.
I think not enough credit is given to the fact that teachers (at least here) found out on a Friday night that they'd be transitioning to all-remote learning on Monday morning. It took weeks just to figure out the basics because this was not something anyone ever planned for. Given a few months to prep, I'd expect remote learning to be improved in the fall, although from what I've seen I'm afraid we've wasted most of this time figuring out how to deep-clean the doorknobs in the school building so kids can go back, rather than putting all resources into providing the best possible remote education. In our town, teachers will now have a few weeks to figure out how to teach a hybrid model where some students are in the classroom and some are online for half a day some days, and different kids are in the classroom other days, and it's all online in afternoons and on Wednesdays, etc. Not quite sure because all the details of the official plan haven't been announced yet despite school starting a month from now. If people thought full-remote education didn't work in the spring, I have a feeling half-remote education is unfortunately going to be even more of a mess.
Anyway, whenever I see comments that teachers "checked out" and didn't do anything during the spring, I have to be honest that I default back to what I said earlier:
I think not enough credit is given to the fact that teachers (at least here) found out on a Friday night that they'd be transitioning to all-remote learning on Monday morning. It took weeks just to figure out the basics because this was not something anyone ever planned for. Given a few months to prep, I'd expect remote learning to be improved in the fall, although from what I've seen I'm afraid we've wasted most of this time figuring out how to deep-clean the doorknobs in the school building so kids can go back, rather than putting all resources into providing the best possible remote education. In our town, teachers will now have a few weeks to figure out how to teach a hybrid model where some students are in the classroom and some are online for half a day some days, and different kids are in the classroom other days, and it's all online in afternoons and on Wednesdays, etc. Not quite sure because all the details of the official plan haven't been announced yet despite school starting a month from now. If people thought full-remote education didn't work in the spring, I have a feeling half-remote education is unfortunately going to be even more of a mess.
Anyway, whenever I see comments that teachers "checked out" and didn't do anything during the spring, I have to be honest that I default back to what I said earlier:
100% I am sure that there are some teachers in this country who completely ghosted their kids once the pandemic hit. That's a shame and they should absolutely be held accountable. I'm also certain that they are a very small minority of teachers. My opinion (founded on first-hand experience on both sides of the "screen") is that most people complaining that teachers didn't do enough actually have no idea what teachers have been doing. If your kid's teacher was positing bikini pics in instagram all spring, I agree you should be pissed and wondering what your town is doing wrong. I just don't personally know anyone here who had that experience.
culdeus
Footballguy
A huge amount of the inertia with online school in our area was brought about because teachers literally had no way to reach students. The poor students have no internet at all, no laptops at home, and hardly any food either. Whether it was the right decision to simply freeze all students while those issues were addressed I'm not sure.
Personally, I had to drop more than a grand to support the infrastructure at home to support all this. My youngest's laptop was not suited at all to do video conferencing and my oldest had a busted webcam and the wifi wasn't stable. Also the home wifi wasn't really getting all over the house as it was so I had to get a mesh system so we weren't hearing 3 different classes at the same time (not to mention the bandwidth drain that this pushes)
To think that teachers are lazy because they have students that simply can't overcome these issues, and are/were given guidance to stand down is insulting, but I understand the frustration.
I also feel like we were pushed by an overly optimistic mindset that kids would be back in school in the fall. Now there have been lots and lots of balls dropped on ensuring the virtual side of things can be managed.
Personally, I had to drop more than a grand to support the infrastructure at home to support all this. My youngest's laptop was not suited at all to do video conferencing and my oldest had a busted webcam and the wifi wasn't stable. Also the home wifi wasn't really getting all over the house as it was so I had to get a mesh system so we weren't hearing 3 different classes at the same time (not to mention the bandwidth drain that this pushes)
To think that teachers are lazy because they have students that simply can't overcome these issues, and are/were given guidance to stand down is insulting, but I understand the frustration.
I also feel like we were pushed by an overly optimistic mindset that kids would be back in school in the fall. Now there have been lots and lots of balls dropped on ensuring the virtual side of things can be managed.
The Commish
Footballguy
I guess I live in bizarro world. Not only has my kids' school hired MORE teachers (to deal with both in person and remote learning) the school did a pretty damn good job with two weeks notice (spring break was extended a week) shifting to 100% remote learning and completing their lesson plans they laid out at the beginning of school.
If I am being honest, I have no idea how the same number of teachers is going to suffice in the areas where both online and in school are options.
If I am being honest, I have no idea how the same number of teachers is going to suffice in the areas where both online and in school are options.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I will say this as someone who did spring learning at a HS. Our district is pretty well to do but every family was personally contacted and offered a Chromebook and assistance getting Wi-Fi if needed. Once we realized that we were not coming back to school, we set up a clear schedule. M and W, 9-10 1st hour 10-11 2nd hour 11-12 3rd hour and then the same schedule T and TH but for hours 4-6. Work was posted via Google Classroom and teachers were in their virtual Google Video Class for kids to come for help. Over the 7 weeks we had this system in place, out of the about 115 kids on my class list, I had only 7 kids ever come in for help. I went out of my way contacting kids and parents non-stop trying to get some of them to do any work. After about 3 weeks of just getting terrible work back and kids turning in assignments 2 weeks late or not at all, not responding my emails, etc. I will admit I mailed it in a bit. I made sure to provide the basics, be available when I was scheduled, contact kids/families when grades were low or assignments were missing to offer more time and help. However, I also wasn't going to spend a whole weekend making some elaborate new lesson perfect for online learning. We had open office hours on Fridays and had planned for tutoring groups (closed them due to lack of interest) but we even ended the office hours on Fridays because nobody was coming and it was a waste of time.
I am hopeful that online to start the year gets better results though.
1. Teachers have had more time to prepare (though it would have been easier to prepare if we had more clarity on the situation).
2.It will be the Fall and the start of the year. Kids always have more interest and energy in September and October than they do in April and May.
3. We have gotten used to our new lives. The shock of it all in the Spring was likely a major distraction for everyone.
4. Lots of school systems (mine included) basically said that if kids were already passing before the shutdown, they wouldn't be failed if they did poorly during the shutdown. This gave lots of kids motivation to mail it in. Starting new, the grades will actually matter more.
I am hopeful that online to start the year gets better results though.
1. Teachers have had more time to prepare (though it would have been easier to prepare if we had more clarity on the situation).
2.It will be the Fall and the start of the year. Kids always have more interest and energy in September and October than they do in April and May.
3. We have gotten used to our new lives. The shock of it all in the Spring was likely a major distraction for everyone.
4. Lots of school systems (mine included) basically said that if kids were already passing before the shutdown, they wouldn't be failed if they did poorly during the shutdown. This gave lots of kids motivation to mail it in. Starting new, the grades will actually matter more.
Are you teaching any AP classes? Getting a good score on AP tests was a big motivating factor when my daughters were in HS from 2005 to 2010.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
No I am not but I know the AP classes worked differently because they had the tight schedule for AP testing. I didn't pay attention to that because it didn't impact me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am not sure if this is sort of a response to me but I am talking about high schoolers. Not little kids.
Galileo
Footballguy
Good teaching requires relationship building and crafting experiences that promote learning. That is much more difficult to achieve through a remote environment. At least last year we had 3/4 of year to do that before moving to a remote environment. Teaching is not simply about information delivery. If it was, we could just plop every kid down in front of Kahn Academy and call it a day. In that scenario, sure, I could see fewer teachers being needed, but I wouldn't call that teaching.
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shadyridr
Footballguy
Oh ok. Yeah my sons teachers did the same thing (made themselves available for amy questions). He was in 5th grade.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That is why I still think schools should be focusing only on getting the younger kids in-person school and just accepting online middle school and high school for the start of the year.
Building an online community of learners is supposed to be facilitated by things like meet and greet, especially with video introduction. Also, having breakout sessions, where a class of say 20 people is broken into perhaps 5 smaller groups of 4 people, who meet for ~10 minutes to discuss or solve a problem, and then report back to the full group. These are a few of the techniques I'm learning in a class I'm taking as an adjunct professor student, taught online by the Dana Center at UT Austin. Miami Dade College (formerly community college) is paying us $800 for taking the class. There's a fair amount of HW. So far, it's been great. The concepts can be applied to younger ages.
Pretty broad brush you're using there and obviously not true for every kid.
I think it is likely true for many kids, but those are also probably in general the same kids that wouldn't come in to ask a question during lunch/break/before or after school. The kids that are more motivated to learn (either because of internal drive or parental pressure) are more likely to take advantage of the opportunity to interact with the teacher. The kids that are at school just to cruise by (lack of internal motivation or parents that simply don't care or view school as their daycare) aren't going to take advantage of the opportunity to interact with their teacher, whether live or online.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Because if you didn’t mean 100% it’s not clear what your point is. Some kids do reach out to their teachers. Plenty of 3rd graders did in the spring so 5th graders shouldn’t have an issue with it. As the other poster noted it’s not hard to guess which ones did and which ones didn’t.
I’m really not sure how parents think this is going to work without their involvement, especially if their kid isn’t the type to take initiative on their own.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Because your generalizing is pointing out problems which may be valid but there are no perfect solutions in this climate. So we have to figure out the best option and deal with the limitations and problems that come with it as best as we can.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Meh its a problem on these boards. Nobody recognizes there is a grey area in between. Its either all or nothing or maybe people just like arguing.
EDIT: I don't LITERALLY mean NOBODY
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shadyridr
Footballguy
Kids, IN GENERAL, aren't going to reach out on their own to the teachers to ask for help.
You happy?
El Floppo
Footballguy
I think it's hard sometimes with a written medium to convey or ensure that grey area is made clear. Very easy to just read the words...literally.
The Gator
Footballguy
I do think that effective remote learning is more a function of how seriously the parents take it, than how seriously the teachers take it.
But, that is probably also true with in-school learning also.
