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Covid and School This Fall (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChiefD
- Start date
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
No, because I have direct knowledge that that's not true. Some kids do, some kids don't. Sounds like your kid is the kind that doesn't.
In my anecdotal experience it doesn't seem like it's a supermajority in either direction so I don't think you can generalize either way.
Shutout
Footballguy
I've been in the trenches on this with my wife and I can tell you both sides have valid points on this discussion covering the last page+.
Depending on where you live (was like this in our area), there are significant barriers for remote learning such as having access to laptops and decent Internet that hinder effective learning. My wife's school actually provided and assigned chrome books and hotspots to all the kids (but not the teachers) but I know that's not feasible everywhere. This activity, aside from obvious cost, required MORE people because there is a physical, paper-side of packets that still must go out, be retrieved, graded, submitted as proof, etc.
On the other hand, some of the things mentioned above citing the other side also absolutely happened. There was one person fired because it was revealed that she was not making contact with her assigned kids so, yes, those kids suffered, got passed, but received no education (the person pencil-whipped it).
But that happened on the other side to (and this point ties into the "how much time you needed). Despite my wife not having to drive 45 minutes each way, she spent every bit as much time each day "at work". The reason was because when they divide all the work up and, let's say she has to see 40 kids a week, she found out very quickly that it was challenging. In order to get the 8 she needed each day, she would have to schedule 12-14 because there were always no-shows, no-calls to tell you they were no-showing, legitimate "my Internet won't work well enough", etc. So many days, she would spend 30 minutes working in a 3 hour block, finding out they weren't participating (but unable to reschedule with anyone else on short notice). So, she ended up trying to do other work to fill the gaps.
And even that scenario had it's flip side that you may not be thinking. This example is true and I wouldn't think it if I hadn't seen it myself. Wife scheduled a child to meet. Got stood up. Scheduled them to make up later in the week. The parents and child log on later in the weekend...from a boat on a lake. Mom says "we were just going crazy in the house and we decided might as well go on vacation"...during the lockdown. Ok, wife says "ok, I'm stuck at my house but ok, let's do this. Tries to do it and can't communicate with the child because the motor on the boat is drowning out the conversation. After an hour into what is supposed to be 45 minutes, the boat apparently literally sails out of tower signal range and the meeting ends.
All in all, I think you guys that have been arguing this either way have valid points both ways but just keep in mind there are SO many little factors that eat into people's time, require more people, create dead time that you just can't make productive, etc.
Depending on where you live (was like this in our area), there are significant barriers for remote learning such as having access to laptops and decent Internet that hinder effective learning. My wife's school actually provided and assigned chrome books and hotspots to all the kids (but not the teachers) but I know that's not feasible everywhere. This activity, aside from obvious cost, required MORE people because there is a physical, paper-side of packets that still must go out, be retrieved, graded, submitted as proof, etc.
On the other hand, some of the things mentioned above citing the other side also absolutely happened. There was one person fired because it was revealed that she was not making contact with her assigned kids so, yes, those kids suffered, got passed, but received no education (the person pencil-whipped it).
But that happened on the other side to (and this point ties into the "how much time you needed). Despite my wife not having to drive 45 minutes each way, she spent every bit as much time each day "at work". The reason was because when they divide all the work up and, let's say she has to see 40 kids a week, she found out very quickly that it was challenging. In order to get the 8 she needed each day, she would have to schedule 12-14 because there were always no-shows, no-calls to tell you they were no-showing, legitimate "my Internet won't work well enough", etc. So many days, she would spend 30 minutes working in a 3 hour block, finding out they weren't participating (but unable to reschedule with anyone else on short notice). So, she ended up trying to do other work to fill the gaps.
And even that scenario had it's flip side that you may not be thinking. This example is true and I wouldn't think it if I hadn't seen it myself. Wife scheduled a child to meet. Got stood up. Scheduled them to make up later in the week. The parents and child log on later in the weekend...from a boat on a lake. Mom says "we were just going crazy in the house and we decided might as well go on vacation"...during the lockdown. Ok, wife says "ok, I'm stuck at my house but ok, let's do this. Tries to do it and can't communicate with the child because the motor on the boat is drowning out the conversation. After an hour into what is supposed to be 45 minutes, the boat apparently literally sails out of tower signal range and the meeting ends.
All in all, I think you guys that have been arguing this either way have valid points both ways but just keep in mind there are SO many little factors that eat into people's time, require more people, create dead time that you just can't make productive, etc.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
This is very true, and it's my contention that the parents who complain that the teachers "didn't do anything" in the spring are outing themselves as the types of parents who didn't take it very seriously at all. Lots of kids did very well in the spring and lots of kids just disappeared a few weeks in. There's only so much a teacher can do from afar in the latter cases.
Shutout
Footballguy
Also (and I'm sure this varies greatly from district to district), in many areas, because this is such a new, unknown wild frontier, many parents and kids just simply defer to the schools and teachers to be the ones to extend and make that engagement and, quite honestly, it was no better than the blond leading the blind sometimes.No, because I have direct knowledge that that's not true. Some kids do, some kids don't. Sounds like your kid is the kind that doesn't.
In my anecdotal experience it doesn't seem like it's a supermajority in either direction so I don't think you can generalize either way.
Shutout
Footballguy
see my post directly above. I can definitely say we saw our share of these scenarios. In parent's defense, some simply don't know HOW to help (for many reasons).
shadyridr
Footballguy
What a joke. Or maybe perhaps BOTH parents have full time jobs and their child has an IEP that their parents cant possibly support.
I can say much more but I am biting my tongue because I don't want to be suspended again.
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belljr
Footballguy
Guys there is not going to be a one size answer to any of this school stuff.
There is probably a little truth in all of it. There are kids that excelled, teachers that did great. Kids that tried but had trouble, teachers that slacked, kids and parents that just bailed. It's going to vary wildly by district, school, age and levels.
Luckily my daughter is in high school and in honors classes so the self sufficient online learning worked great for us.
:Lookatme:
Sorry for the reasonable response. I'll pidgeon hole my answer and outrage for next time
There is probably a little truth in all of it. There are kids that excelled, teachers that did great. Kids that tried but had trouble, teachers that slacked, kids and parents that just bailed. It's going to vary wildly by district, school, age and levels.
Luckily my daughter is in high school and in honors classes so the self sufficient online learning worked great for us.
:Lookatme:
Sorry for the reasonable response. I'll pidgeon hole my answer and outrage for next time
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
No one said it was easy. We all got stuck with a ####ty deal. It is what it is. I worked full time and homeschooled my two kids because my wife spent all day teaching other people's kids. Most parents work, we all had to figure it out. I stand by my statement.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Fwiw, two kids in public schools- one was in 3rd (33 kids in her class), the other in 7th (12 kids total in his grade).
3rd grade teacher inconveniently subbed in exactly when the learning went remote to cover normal teacher's maternity leave. The sub met them in the morning remotely to meet and go over some assignments-most of them linked to remote sources, not something she prepared- and that was it. Nothing else. My wife had to review all the work and guide our daughter through everything, correctly or incorrectly. And comparing to our sons 3rd grade with the same teacher, they still didn't cover the entire curriculum. It was an entirely lost and wasted period of education outside of what we did with her separately.
7ty graders teachers were great- very involved and responsive with a lot of live teaching and review of work.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Well, for me, it's not "This Fall" but today. My 3 younger kids (but not young) started back today. We are a combination of excited/optimistic and nervous/worried. We all have spent years trying to protect our kids but also doing what's best to set them up for life. I just hope I made the right call.
Nigel
Footballguy
I got the plan for my son's school (private grade 7 - 12 all boys), a 20 page pdf covering pretty much everything you can think of. Here are the highlights:
Masks - school will issue each kid two 3-play washable/reusable masks, students can only wear those unless otherwise approved by health office. Worn indoors at all times, outdoors when not possible to social-distance.
Screening - every morning each boy must complete complete and submit a health-screening via an app before arriving for the day.
Social distancing - 6 feet in classrooms/community spaces.
Visitors - none allowed on campus during school hours, exceptions only if deemed necessary and first screened by health office.
Schedule - Four days on campus, one at home. Wednesday will be remote learning to acclimate kids to it in case it has to become full time at some point, will also be a deep-clean day on campus.
Remote option - Any student or teacher can decide to learn/teach remotely full time, school has technology in place to synchronize with those in classrooms. In the case of teachers they will hire aides to be physically in classes on campus when teachers are remote.
Lunch - Boxed lunches will be delivered to classrooms, and students can opt out of meal plan and bring their own. It is typically not optional, definitely doing this and saving some $.
Athletics - No league schedule/championships but teams will practice/compete among each other, with hopes of scrimmaging other schools if restrictions ease.
They also shared contingency plans for 100% remote and a hybrid where grades rotate half and half, to be used if circumstances change and require them. Classes are small (10 kids on average) which make a lot of this possible. I'm very impressed with the level of detail that's gone into planning. No hesitation sending him, you get what you pay for.
Still waiting on the plan for my daughter, a rising freshman at our public high school. I fully expect it to be a ####-show, and we'll likely be looking to move her elsewhere the following year. Does not help that they broke ground on a rebuild/rehab of the high school last month that will have some classrooms in temporary structures (i.e. trailers), a project that won't be complete before she graduates.
Masks - school will issue each kid two 3-play washable/reusable masks, students can only wear those unless otherwise approved by health office. Worn indoors at all times, outdoors when not possible to social-distance.
Screening - every morning each boy must complete complete and submit a health-screening via an app before arriving for the day.
Social distancing - 6 feet in classrooms/community spaces.
Visitors - none allowed on campus during school hours, exceptions only if deemed necessary and first screened by health office.
Schedule - Four days on campus, one at home. Wednesday will be remote learning to acclimate kids to it in case it has to become full time at some point, will also be a deep-clean day on campus.
Remote option - Any student or teacher can decide to learn/teach remotely full time, school has technology in place to synchronize with those in classrooms. In the case of teachers they will hire aides to be physically in classes on campus when teachers are remote.
Lunch - Boxed lunches will be delivered to classrooms, and students can opt out of meal plan and bring their own. It is typically not optional, definitely doing this and saving some $.
Athletics - No league schedule/championships but teams will practice/compete among each other, with hopes of scrimmaging other schools if restrictions ease.
They also shared contingency plans for 100% remote and a hybrid where grades rotate half and half, to be used if circumstances change and require them. Classes are small (10 kids on average) which make a lot of this possible. I'm very impressed with the level of detail that's gone into planning. No hesitation sending him, you get what you pay for.
Still waiting on the plan for my daughter, a rising freshman at our public high school. I fully expect it to be a ####-show, and we'll likely be looking to move her elsewhere the following year. Does not help that they broke ground on a rebuild/rehab of the high school last month that will have some classrooms in temporary structures (i.e. trailers), a project that won't be complete before she graduates.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
belljr
Footballguy
Daughters school is doing
Half in school Monday
The other Half Tuesday
When home it is remote.
So it will just keep rotating like this throughout the year.
My kids school schedule actually rotates everyday normally so now they will repeat 2 days in a row.
For example, this was their normal day
D1 -. 1,2,3 lunch 5,6,7
D2 - 2,3,4 lunch 6,7,8
D3 - 3,4,1 lunch 7,8,5
D4 - 4,1,2 lunch 8,5,6
Now it will be D1 twice. They are also working on half day schedule so their is no lunch and the classes are compressed
Half in school Monday
The other Half Tuesday
When home it is remote.
So it will just keep rotating like this throughout the year.
My kids school schedule actually rotates everyday normally so now they will repeat 2 days in a row.
For example, this was their normal day
D1 -. 1,2,3 lunch 5,6,7
D2 - 2,3,4 lunch 6,7,8
D3 - 3,4,1 lunch 7,8,5
D4 - 4,1,2 lunch 8,5,6
Now it will be D1 twice. They are also working on half day schedule so their is no lunch and the classes are compressed
Ilov80s
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
Nigel
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
If I had to make a bet one way or the other, right now I’d bet that NJ changes course and requires all online schooling for school starting this fall.
As is, my daughter’s school schedule is really dumb IMO. Her grade will be online only M-W, and then TH and F they go in for 4 hours in the morning and the rest of the day is online. Every grade is doing 3 days online and 2 days half days morning only.
I think they realized they had no way to adequately space everyone to do lunch with masks off so their solution was to have half days only. But 2 half days a week at school seems almost pointless to me. Might as well just do all online at that point.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Thanks.
To follow CDC guidelines, NYCs metric has been ~65sf/kid...so about 8-9 per classroom instead of 32. This has been the reasoning behind the cohorts and 1-2 days of in-school live attendance.
Nice that you guys have the room to make this work. I really like how your school has set it up.
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think we all need to realize that all of this is brand new to everyone and the truth is that every solution possible right now pretty much sucks for one reason or another. Everyone is going to suffer a least a little. Kids with parents who aren’t as involved with their kid’s education will suffer more, kids with teachers that can’t/won’t make the needed adjustments to teach online in a decent manner will suffer, teachers who actually care will definitely suffer, and parents who care will definitely suffer as well.
Kids in school is a huge health issue IMO and I think that sending them back is risky, but we need to be honest that kids not being in school has a lot of significant negative outcomes as well. This is going to be even more the case in lower resource households and for kids with special needs. These kids are going to suffer and be left behind at a disproportionate level.
culdeus
Footballguy
There are so many micro issues that will come along with this. Lunch is a massive problem. I mean if there is one thing I think is absolutely the most risky, being inside and maskless is that. So the cafeteria isn't safe to have everyone maskless, so the plan is to have kids eat lunch in classrooms in small groups, without masks (obv.).
This is causing a lot of hand wringing as there is a huge contingent of kids and teachers that haven't eaten in a restaurant since March.
This is causing a lot of hand wringing as there is a huge contingent of kids and teachers that haven't eaten in a restaurant since March.
trader jake
Footballguy
We'd all be better off if school districts used their time and money making long distance learning as good as possible.
Instead we have a ton of ideas (good, bad, and ugly). If some big-money organizations can't pull off in-person activities what chance do school districts have? I hope I'm wrong and both of my kids are attending in-person for the 2nd semester (after holiday break here), but there's no way in hell we're sending our kids to school in person now.
I feel for those of you that have little to no real alternatives.
Instead we have a ton of ideas (good, bad, and ugly). If some big-money organizations can't pull off in-person activities what chance do school districts have? I hope I'm wrong and both of my kids are attending in-person for the 2nd semester (after holiday break here), but there's no way in hell we're sending our kids to school in person now.
I feel for those of you that have little to no real alternatives.
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Otis
Footballguy
I don’t really get the deep clean days. This thing doesn’t sit on desks, does it? It’s in the air. Is the deep cleaning making much difference?
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
It’s hygiene theater. We’re gonna Lysol all the light switches in the school with a 100 year old ventilation system.
Galileo
Footballguy
I believe it can, but I do not think transfer to others has been as prevalent from surface contamination. Here is WebMD's info on surfaces
Nigel
Footballguy
I agree, primarily optics - will put some folks at ease though I’d guess it saves nobody from getting Covid in practice. I think the main driver is to have kids in somewhat of a remote -schooling rhythm should they be forced to pivot 100% that way.
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Insoxicated
Had our meet and greet with our kindergarten teacher. It’s gonna be interesting to say the least. They’re planning on 3.5 live hours per day. Just this 15 minute meeting was struggle. We start for real on Wednesday and I’ll be able to help but most of the time it will be my wife on her own while also taking care of a 2 year old and trying to WFH.
They’re doing the first month online for everyone and then we had a choice of online or in-person with a quarterly option to switch. They did a very smart thing and assigned one teacher to be the distance learning teacher. We’ll stay online for at least the first quarter with the hope that things start looking better or at least there’s better data on the health risk and the role kids could play in the spread. But I have a hard time believing that 5 year olds will be engaged for 3.5 hours.
Edit to add: had to laugh at the suggestion that the distance learning was going to make it easier for teachers or require fewer teachers. Teachers are going to be doing their best to deal with the crappy hand they’ve been dealt. Sure there be some lazy ones but a vast majority of teachers will struggle physically and mentally to handle this year, not to mention the health risks some will be taking if it’s in person.
They’re doing the first month online for everyone and then we had a choice of online or in-person with a quarterly option to switch. They did a very smart thing and assigned one teacher to be the distance learning teacher. We’ll stay online for at least the first quarter with the hope that things start looking better or at least there’s better data on the health risk and the role kids could play in the spread. But I have a hard time believing that 5 year olds will be engaged for 3.5 hours.
Edit to add: had to laugh at the suggestion that the distance learning was going to make it easier for teachers or require fewer teachers. Teachers are going to be doing their best to deal with the crappy hand they’ve been dealt. Sure there be some lazy ones but a vast majority of teachers will struggle physically and mentally to handle this year, not to mention the health risks some will be taking if it’s in person.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
My 6th grader is pretty happy. She found out one of her 5th grade teachers is going to be her online academy teacher and a whole bunch of her friends and classmates from last year will be in her class this year. For a while she thought it sounded like they were doing the brick and mortar in a couple weeks option. I think that will help alot for the school year.
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OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
for a bit Im sure.
lumpy19
Footballguy
We don’t start for another few weeks but wife and I have made the decision to keep kids home. 5th grade, 3rd grade and Kindergarten. We both work, I’ve informed my work I’ll be taking vacation and WFH when possible, wife is a high school teacher and no idea what her schedule is going to be, right now her district is planning to open.
Kids are in private school but they are not offering a full remote option so we enrolled in public school which is offering full remote. Just a giant mess all around but both of us are fully on board with keeping them home no matter what and making it work. We’ve leaned on family to help out when needed and we’ll see how it goes.
Kids are in private school but they are not offering a full remote option so we enrolled in public school which is offering full remote. Just a giant mess all around but both of us are fully on board with keeping them home no matter what and making it work. We’ve leaned on family to help out when needed and we’ll see how it goes.
RUSF18
Footballguy
This is why people also shouldn't be citing that Georgia camp situation as a reason schools around the country shouldn't open. They didn't require masks for the kids either.Craig_MiamiFL said:
There is zero chance of this working without masks. There is a good chance of things working fairly well if kids are required to wear masks.
My daughter is in her fifth week of camp being held at her school. Masks are required for everyone. There have been no positive cases (fingers crossed). They take the masks off when they eat, and they follow the rules because the teachers wear masks and follow the rules and instruct them to follow the rules. And all the parents wear masks and help the kids understand the importance of following the rules. These are kids ranging in age from 3-6 at this camp. If they can do it, older kids can too.
Everybody needs to buy into the mask thing for it to work. It's unbelievable and incredibly sad that this is still an argument.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Nothing official but it sounds like my district plan is the first month will be virtual and then reassess once they see the impact in person school has on the districts that choose that route. I like that plan. I hate to use other kids as guinea pigs but nobody has to send their kid to school so I suppose it’s voluntary.
culdeus
Footballguy
I mean the wait two weeks crew in Texas are doing just that, expecting Georgia to melt down. Nothing in the plans are expected to change in the interim. If Georgia, Indiana, and ??? do ok, I expect in person plans to push forward.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
It is a toss up which one will last longer--kids going back to school, the NFL season or the baseball season.
Out health department deems something an outbreak if there are two or more cases in the same place and then that kicks in a whole slew of responses. Try and tell me there are not going to be two positive cases after day one of school. This is going to be a roller coaster ride of opening and shutting buildings.
My wife went back today--she is a special education coach after being a special ed teacher for twenty years. She hasn't been in her office in the admin building since March 17th. it is obviously no one else has either because the community fridge had her leftover Olive Garden lasagna still in there..... :X .
Out health department deems something an outbreak if there are two or more cases in the same place and then that kicks in a whole slew of responses. Try and tell me there are not going to be two positive cases after day one of school. This is going to be a roller coaster ride of opening and shutting buildings.
My wife went back today--she is a special education coach after being a special ed teacher for twenty years. She hasn't been in her office in the admin building since March 17th. it is obviously no one else has either because the community fridge had her leftover Olive Garden lasagna still in there..... :X .
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
It actually sounds like you guys got a pretty great deal. Both got to work from home. Didn't get laid off, furloughed, or have your small business get closed down.Ignoratio Elenchi said:
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I was going to type out the letter my SIL just got but here's the tl;dr. Kid tested positive at local elementary school. This kid lives next door to my SIL - the whole class plus my 2 youngest nieces are quarantined for 2 weeks. I give it a < 1% chance they will ever go back because if they are going to close the classes for one positive then all the classes will be shutdown within 1-2 weeks.
The Gator
Footballguy
I think what most teachers have shared - the chance of kids wearing masks all day is pretty close to zero.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Sure, others have had it much worse. I wouldn’t say anyone has gotten a great deal these last few months. We’ve all had a lot of challenges to deal with. I didn’t even get one of those stimulus checks everyone was talking about a few months ago.
gianmarco
Footballguy
My son's HS is going full virtual. It will be this for grades 5-12 in the district.
My daughter's elementary school is going 5 days/week with either AM or PM (we'll find out which we are soon, I supposed). This is for K-4. You can opt for full virtual as well.
We will be sending her. I might send my son to her school too.
My daughter's elementary school is going 5 days/week with either AM or PM (we'll find out which we are soon, I supposed). This is for K-4. You can opt for full virtual as well.
We will be sending her. I might send my son to her school too.
Doug B
Footballguy
A kid taking off their mask now and again isn't going to move the needle much. I'll go so far as to say that as long as each individual kid keeps their own mask on an average of 90-95% of the day, the masks will still be a solid mitigation measure. Whipping off another kid's mask as a prank is not going to get that unmasked kid instant COVID.
Is there a concern that a whole lot of kids are just going to willfully go unmasked all day long, and then fight teachers on it? What exactly is the "they won't wear masks" concern? Again, the occasional doffing of masks doesn't raise the "threat level" very much.
