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COVID UPDATE: What is the truth? (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko

Footballguy
Nobody is saying Covid itself was a fraud. That is a strawman insinuated by Terminalxylem. 


Here's a suggestion LawFitz

Count the number of times in this thread you've been just outright personally attacked, gas lit, sealioned, logical fallacy bombed, ad hominem bombed and on and on and on.

Let's say it's 12. Then for the next 12 days, every 24 hours, start a new top level thread about a topic you want to talk about. Can be anything. Gun control, abortion, campaign finance, voter ID, the list is endless. Invest in those threads.

The goal here by the radical leftists is to silence you and to silence all Conservative voices. So don't be silenced. If every Conservative did that, to uplift the entire PSF with practical political discussion, then the attacks on Conservatives would end.

Saagar Enjeti says something I like quite a bit, an approximation of it is - That the cure to any tyranny is simply the application of more democracy.

In the same way, the cure to those who wish to cease diversity of thought is simply adding more diversity of thought.

My take, you do as you think is best. You are a good poster, don't let the haters slow you down

 

tymarsas

Footballguy
Here's a suggestion LawFitz

Count the number of times in this thread you've been just outright personally attacked, gas lit, sealioned, logical fallacy bombed, ad hominem bombed and on and on and on.

Let's say it's 12. Then for the next 12 days, every 24 hours, start a new top level thread about a topic you want to talk about. Can be anything. Gun control, abortion, campaign finance, voter ID, the list is endless. Invest in those threads.

The goal here by the radical leftists is to silence you and to silence all Conservative voices. So don't be silenced. If every Conservative did that, to uplift the entire PSF with practical political discussion, then the attacks on Conservatives would end.

Saagar Enjeti says something I like quite a bit, an approximation of it is - That the cure to any tyranny is simply the application of more democracy.

In the same way, the cure to those who wish to cease diversity of thought is simply adding more diversity of thought.

My take, you do as you think is best. You are a good poster, don't let the haters slow you down
It's pretty fascinating that you think diversity of thought is to overwhelm this board with conservative voices.

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
I have a general rule about not engaging with anti-vaxxers in this forum. I have better things to do with my life (but God bless those who do, particularly those with a scientific background).

But I'll share with everyone what I've found to be a helpful heuristic: Anytime anyone uses the term "quietly" (eg, "quietly published", "quietly updated their website") they're most likely insinuating a conspiracy where none exists. I mean, what does that even mean? Does that NIH normally throw a parade down 5th Avenue every time their website has a new article? It's a way of subtly suggesting -- without bothering to make the case directly -- that this is information "they" don't want you to know.

 

LawFitz

Footballguy
I have a general rule about not engaging with anti-vaxxers in this forum. I have better things to do with my life (but God bless those who do, particularly those with a scientific background).

But I'll share with everyone what I've found to be a helpful heuristic: Anytime anyone uses the term "quietly" (eg, "quietly published", "quietly updated their website") they're most likely insinuating a conspiracy where none exists. I mean, what does that even mean? Does that NIH normally throw a parade down 5th Avenue every time their website has a new article? It's a way of subtly suggesting -- without bothering to make the case directly -- that this is information "they" don't want you to know.


LOL. So after I had to point out the difference between the NIH and the NIH website and literally define the word "publish" for you, now the attack is over the word "quietly." 😂😂😂

 

dkp993

Footballguy
It's pretty fascinating that you think diversity of thought is to overwhelm this board with conservative voices.
All while calling people (often incorrectly) radical leftist, tribalist and slaves to their Social Media.  When he gets proven wrong on these assertions does he apologize? Nope. Just more labeling, lecturing and claims of lifting the discourse.  

 

FairWarning

Footballguy
I have a general rule about not engaging with anti-vaxxers in this forum. I have better things to do with my life (but God bless those who do, particularly those with a scientific background).

But I'll share with everyone what I've found to be a helpful heuristic: Anytime anyone uses the term "quietly" (eg, "quietly published", "quietly updated their website") they're most likely insinuating a conspiracy where none exists. I mean, what does that even mean? Does that NIH normally throw a parade down 5th Avenue every time their website has a new article? It's a way of subtly suggesting -- without bothering to make the case directly -- that this is information "they" don't want you to know.
It’s a pretty common tactic - add-one in law bills., and in bills we pay..

 

pinkham13

Footballguy
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ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
It’s a pretty common tactic - add-one in law bills., and in bills we pay..
Well in those cases it's accurate. Corporations really do hope you won't go through all the charges on your bill. Special-interest groups adopt as a deliberate tactic having sympathetic lawmakers insert legislative language that would be harder to pass if it were debated openly. Besides, when it comes to our lawmaking process, it's hard to get too conspiratorial.

Anyway, my point was not that no one should ever use the word "quietly" and we should burn all existing copies of the "Quiet Place" movies. It was more just a general warning to be aware of the subtle language choices that are often employed for the purpose of manipulating our thinking. It happens all the time, sometimes for good, sometimes for evil, and sometimes just because.

 

sho nuff

Footballguy
Covid was an arrow in the totalitarian quiver. One of four scenarios planned on by PTB to retain and expand totalitarian control. As Trump was set to drain the swamp and bring the unaccountable three letter agency’s back under executive control the Covid card was played. https://issuu.com/dueprocesstv/docs/scenario-for_the-future

https://themillenniumreport.com/2020/07/rockefeller-lockstep-2010-was-blueprint-for-2020-covid-19-pandemic/
Bring agencies under executive control?  That isn’t draining the swamp…that is authoritarian behavior.

 

pinkham13

Footballguy
Bring agencies under executive control?  That isn’t draining the swamp…that is authoritarian behavior.
It could be used for nefarious purposes yes. The intent in this case was to hold these behemoths accountable. I don’t trust Drumpf though. They’re certainly running wild and have been for a long time. As Chuckie Schumer said they have six ways to Sunday to get you. Reap the whirlwind etc.

 
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sho nuff

Footballguy
It could be used for nefarious purposes yes. The intent in this case was to hold these behemoths accountable. I don’t trust Drumpf though. They’re certainly running wild and have been for a long time. As Chuckie Schumer said they have six ways to Sunday to get you. Reap the whirlwind etc.
It wasnt about accountability…it was about control…so that he would be free to do what he wished (like he tried on January 6th). Its to avoid accountability for his actions.  It was exactly the type of stuff some of you are claiming the left is doing in that other thread. Only it was actually happening.

 

pinkham13

Footballguy
It wasnt about accountability…it was about control…so that he would be free to do what he wished (like he tried on January 6th). Its to avoid accountability for his actions.  It was exactly the type of stuff some of you are claiming the left is doing in that other thread. Only it was actually happening.
Well considering Drumpf’s record on red flag laws and warp speed. I can’t really argue that you’d be wrong, That guy married to his daughter is a real doozy. I feel Trump played his villain role to the t. Teflon Don. 

 
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ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
Bring agencies under executive control?  That isn’t draining the swamp…that is authoritarian behavior.
Silly sho. It’s not authoritarian if the good guys are doing it!

Also a reminder that the person whining incessantly about “totalitarianism” is the same guy who casually tosses around homophobic slurs without consequence. You’d think if we had some proper Commie moderators he would have been sent to a reeducation camp by now

 

pinkham13

Footballguy
Silly sho. It’s not authoritarian if the good guys are doing it!

Also a reminder that the person whining incessantly about “totalitarianism” is the same guy who casually tosses around homophobic slurs without consequence. You’d think if we had some proper Commie moderators he would have been sent to a reeducation camp by now
I haven’t seen anyone in here who has ever posted anything you could consider irrationally afraid of homosexuals including myself. Joe Biden wants to teach your kids to be trans or else no lunches. I’m not supporting grooming but that’s what far left extremists do. When they can’t win a debate sling the racist card or deplorable label or any number of childish nanny boo boo nonsense. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/may/biden-admin-threatens-to-take-away-lunch-money-for-kids-if-schools-dont-allow-boys-in-girls-restrooms

 

JIslander

Footballguy
Looks like we got a case of Polio --if only there was something that could have prevented that ...

We're going backwards

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
how many remember the long arguments on covid just 18-24 months ago ?

remember "breakthrough" cases ? remember this was a pandemic of the un-vaccinated? remember everyone talking how asymptomatic wasn't spreading the virus? that everyone should mask up to stop the virus? trust the science?  wouldn't get covid if you were vaccinated?

looking back and reading that thread .. https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/783982-government-response-to-the-coronavirus/

unbelievable isn't it ? the "misinformation" 

 

shadrap

Footballguy
how many remember the long arguments on covid just 18-24 months ago ?

remember "breakthrough" cases ? remember this was a pandemic of the un-vaccinated? remember everyone talking how asymptomatic wasn't spreading the virus? that everyone should mask up to stop the virus? trust the science?  wouldn't get covid if you were vaccinated?

looking back and reading that thread .. https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/783982-government-response-to-the-coronavirus/

unbelievable isn't it ? the "misinformation" 
like the 2500 page Russia collusion thread.

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
like the 2500 page Russia collusion thread.


somewhat yes - but "trust the science" was what we were told on wearing masks, taking vaccine, transmitting the virus, breakthrough cases etc etc and they were wrong about all of it - people have such short memories :(  

I think covid came along and it was exploited and weaponized, Russia was built from the ground up lies

 

Max Power

Footballguy
somewhat yes - but "trust the science" was what we were told on wearing masks, taking vaccine, transmitting the virus, breakthrough cases etc etc and they were wrong about all of it - people have such short memories :(  

I think covid came along and it was exploited and weaponized, Russia was built from the ground up lies
Trust the science was a horrible slogan. Policy makers abused it, and the MSM distorted it to suit their needs. 

 

ICON211

Footballguy
Trusting the science is fine.  Trusting the people that are manipulating and distorting the data.....not so much.

Oh and if we're talking about anatomy - don't trust that science.

 

Terminalxylem

Footballguy
ICON211 said:
Trusting the science is fine.  Trusting the people that are manipulating and distorting the data.....not so much.

Oh and if we're talking about anatomy - don't trust that science.
What does the bolded mean?

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
I have a general rule about not engaging with anti-vaxxers in this forum.


that's a fascinating term to still be using

we now know vaccinations didn't stop people from getting covid, we now know asymptomatic people were the spreaders of covid too, we now know there were no "breakthough" cases, there was simply people getting covid, the virus didn't care if you had a shot or not

we know the masks didn't really stop anything

and you're STILL using the hateful, mean, intolerant, discriminating word "anti-vaxxers"

wow

 

Alex P Keaton

Footballguy
somewhat yes - but "trust the science" was what we were told on wearing masks, taking vaccine, transmitting the virus, breakthrough cases etc etc and they were wrong about all of it - people have such short memories :(  

I think covid came along and it was exploited and weaponized, Russia was built from the ground up lies
It’s actually almost all worked out exactly as mapped out.  The vaccines have been phenomenal at preventing deaths.  It’s math - simple math - overwhelming math.  If you can’t follow the math……I’m not sure what to say.

 

Max Power

Footballguy
It’s actually almost all worked out exactly as mapped out.  The vaccines have been phenomenal at preventing deaths.  It’s math - simple math - overwhelming math.  If you can’t follow the math……I’m not sure what to say.
Let's also not forget that math includes natural immunity and the fact that viruses tend to become less deadly over time which appears to be the case with Omicron. 

 

Alex P Keaton

Footballguy
Let's also not forget that math includes natural immunity and the fact that viruses tend to become less deadly over time which appears to be the case with Omicron. 
Glad to review the math you are suggesting.  Feel free to share a link.  Links demonstrating efficacy of vaccines at preventing death have been shared on this board over and over and over.  There really is zero medical or scientific controversy about their efficacy at this point.  Vaccines have saved, globally, a significantly large number of lives. Tens of millions?   Single-digit millions?

 

ignatiusjreilly

Footballguy
that's a fascinating term to still be using

we now know vaccinations didn't stop people from getting covid, we now know asymptomatic people were the spreaders of covid too, we now know there were no "breakthough" cases, there was simply people getting covid, the virus didn't care if you had a shot or not

we know the masks didn't really stop anything

and you're STILL using the hateful, mean, intolerant, discriminating word "anti-vaxxers"

wow
So you cite a bunch of reasons you're against vaccines, and then you object to the term "anti-vax"? 

I view the term as descriptive, as your post amply demonstrates. If you want to play the victim and insist it is hateful and "discriminating" [sic], you are free to report me to the moderators

 

Max Power

Footballguy
Glad to review the math you are suggesting.  Feel free to share a link.  Links demonstrating efficacy of vaccines at preventing death have been shared on this board over and over and over.  There really is zero medical or scientific controversy about their efficacy at this point.  Vaccines have saved, globally, a significantly large number of lives. Tens of millions?   Single-digit millions?
I'm suggesting the simple math claim isnt really a simple black and white answer, there are countless variables.

The vaccines absolutely saved countless lives, but I'm not sure what metric you're using for overwhelming proof of vaccine efficacy. 

 

Max Power

Footballguy
So you cite a bunch of reasons you're against vaccines, and then you object to the term "anti-vax"? 

I view the term as descriptive, as your post amply demonstrates. If you want to play the victim and insist it is hateful and "discriminating" [sic], you are free to report me to the moderators
Just a PSA:  I've learned over the last few years that if someone takes something I've said as derogatory speech, that's what it is, even if it wasn't intended as such. 

 

dkp993

Footballguy
True, but they also have a risk associated with them that people want to ignore and when they get mandated on people it's going to cause the backlash we see today.
Every single thing ever has risks, including water.  But the risks with this have so far proven to be extremely low.  The mandatory angle is much tougher for sure. I wasn’t, and still am not, for government mandate with COVID but am fine with business making that decision for themselves.

The really tragedy imo is if in our lifetime another pandemic hits but turns out to not have as restricted or low kill rates as COVID.  This becoming politicized and politicked will ultimately be our downfall with the next, people won’t listen and will site COVID.  And lots of people will die. 

 

Max Power

Footballguy
Every single thing ever has risks, including water.  But the risks with this have so far proven to be extremely low.  The mandatory angle is much tougher for sure. I wasn’t, and still am not, for government mandate with COVID but am fine with business making that decision for themselves.

The really tragedy imo is if in our lifetime another pandemic hits but turns out to not have as restricted or low kill rates as COVID.  This becoming politicized and politicked will ultimately be our downfall with the next, people won’t listen and will site COVID.  And lots of people will die. 
I agree. Public trust in our health officials has to be at an all time low and they earned it.

Many people have voiced their concern over the politicalization of the vaccine. It's probably going to cause slower uptake in already established vaccines.

While the risk is low, the risk is not zero. I personally think we're going to see those numbers increase with more vaccination, but that's just me.

The vaccine comes with uncertainty that some people arent comfortable with. When the vaccine is packaged as only upside, again of course people are going to point out every time it doesn't perform well. 

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
It’s actually almost all worked out exactly as mapped out.  The vaccines have been phenomenal at preventing deaths.  It’s math - simple math - overwhelming math.  If you can’t follow the math……I’m not sure what to say.


so breakthrough cases was all just a joke? Biden saying vaccines = safe from covid was a gaffe? calling this a pandemic of unvaccinated people was playing around? masks stops covid was April Fools?

c'mon man .. why can't you admit that? 

 

Alex P Keaton

Footballguy
so breakthrough cases was all just a joke? Biden saying vaccines = safe from covid was a gaffe? calling this a pandemic of unvaccinated people was playing around? masks stops covid was April Fools?

c'mon man .. why can't you admit that? 
Because I understand science and math?  Not sure what else to say.  The vaccines have been extremely effective at preventing death and/or serious illness.   I don’t really care if people get cold symptoms for a few days.  Or if they have some fatigue.

Unvaccinated people have died at a much higher rate than vaccinated people.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/?amp=true

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
Because I understand science and math?  Not sure what else to say.  The vaccines have been extremely effective at preventing death and/or serious illness.   I don’t really care if people get cold symptoms for a few days.  Or if they have some fatigue.

Unvaccinated people have died at a much higher rate than vaccinated people.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/?amp=true


but all the other things that were told - you admit they were lies and were wrong about "breakthrough" cases and vax=immune and masks working, shutdowns etc right ?

 

the moops

Footballguy
but all the other things that were told - you admit they were lies and were wrong about "breakthrough" cases and vax=immune and masks working, shutdowns etc right ?
No, they weren't lies. They were wrong about how our bodies and the vaccine would react with subsequent variants. Nobody has stated that the science got everything right. They got plenty of wrong. But instead of listening to some random youtube dude or an anonymous internet poster, the majority of people followed what their doctors and the science told them was the best course of action at the time. And millions of lives have been saved because of those doctors and scientists

 

The Commish

Footballguy
It’s actually almost all worked out exactly as mapped out.  The vaccines have been phenomenal at preventing deaths.  It’s math - simple math - overwhelming math.  If you can’t follow the math……I’m not sure what to say.
And it performed way better than expected through Delta. Also continues to keep people out of the hospital for strands that didnt even exist when the vaccines were created. 

 

Stealthycat

Footballguy
Do you admit that the vaccines have been incredibly effective at preventing death and serious illness?


no

we don't know that the people who were vaxxed would have survived covid anyway - just because they were vaxxed don't mean anything IMO

and, for the record, throw out everyone 40 and younger who were vaxxed, cannot count them, they were almost assured of not dying of covid anyway

 

Zegras11

Footballguy
no

we don't know that the people who were vaxxed would have survived covid anyway - just because they were vaxxed don't mean anything IMO

and, for the record, throw out everyone 40 and younger who were vaxxed, cannot count them, they were almost assured of not dying of covid anyway
the ignorance is just stunning. 

 

foxco

Footballguy
no

we don't know that the people who were vaxxed would have survived covid anyway - just because they were vaxxed don't mean anything IMO

and, for the record, throw out everyone 40 and younger who were vaxxed, cannot count them, they were almost assured of not dying of covid anyway
Anecdotally, I know 8 people who died of Covid prior to the vaccine being available. 1 since the vaccine was available, and they refused to be vaccinated. All over 50 (except a nurse in her 30's).  Just anecdotal, so no real evidence, but it seems to have helped a lot in my area. 

 

dkp993

Footballguy
Anecdotally, I know 8 people who died of Covid prior to the vaccine being available. 1 since the vaccine was available, and they refused to be vaccinated. All over 50 (except a nurse in her 30's).  Just anecdotal, so no real evidence, but it seems to have helped a lot in my area. 
Yep.  My sister in law and her daughter (early 40’s and early 20’s) are both long haulers and we’re touch and go for a while. Very healthy, not over weight, non smokers.  Still have major problems to this day, over 2 yrs later.   Obviously not vaxed as it wasn’t developed then.  

 

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