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Crabtree (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Art Vandalay
- Start date
It appears they're doing everything okay, but years of incompetence from the Yorks have given me loads of skepticism.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
They're not signing their first round pick, something every other team in the NFL has done this year.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
if all the other first rounders had demanded money that players drafted 5-7 slots above them got, NONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE SIGNED
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
Suprised Chase gave such a nieve response.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
But none of the other first rounders did.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I'm not really understanding the point. Are you faulting them for not signing a guy who demands to be paid outside his slot, or faulting them for selecting the one guy who would demand that? I totally disagree with the first option. While I marginally agree with the 2nd option it is hard to fault a team for taking a talent that slid in the draft.As a person who could not care less about Crabtree or the 49ers, I welcome the outcome whereCrabtree goes back into the 2010 draft and getstaken after Benn, Bryant and LaFell. He should go even lower than most think after pulling this stunt over top 10 moneuy. God knows what he would do getting drafted at 25, or worse yet in the 2nd round.
lod01
Footballguy
That's a 'rick' statement if I have ever heard one. No, you have no idea what that means. Only one other on this board can understand the comedy of that one.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
If I was a fan of the 49ers, I'd be very unhappy that my team didn't have a first round pick this year. They'd have been much better off drafting someone like Orakpo, no?
Masked Vigilante
Footballguy
But then this thread would be about Crabtree and another team.
BigJim®
Footballguy
I don't disagree with that. But its just a failure of the process. As a Vike fan I'm painfully reminded of the year the Vikes drafted Bryant McKinney and he did not sign until the 8th week, if I recall right. Maybe there is some due diligence expected as to the signability of players, but Crabtree is far from the first draftee who has slid in the draft and I don't think an NFL team operating in the slotting system would be reasonably expected to smell out that a guy is unsignable before actual negotiations begin. If SF had not drafted him at 10, certainly some other team would have pounced on him shortly after that and would be equally exposed to ridicule. I don't think anyone would expect that Crabtree would go completely undrafted due to signability questions. It stinks for SF, but they took the chance drafting talent and are, as I understand, only insisting Crabtree fit into the slotting system. Hard to fault them for that. At some point Crabtree will cave like they all do, and the league and its 'negotiable slotting system' will be better off because they toed the line.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
it would be about another team who made a mistake by drafting CrabtreeThere's no question the 49ers made a mistake here. At a minimum, they took a risk and lost, at least for now.But then this thread would be about Crabtree and another team.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
I was referring to Crabtree's cousin and "adviser", David Wells. His influence could be debated.As for Eugene Parker, it's quite possible he could be using the Crabtree situation (slipping down in the draft) as an opportunity to shake up the traditional "salary follows draft pick" paradigm. If he successfully got #7 money for Crabtree, it would be just like proving a case in court - agents could point to that next year as substantiation for THEIR client to do the same thing.
Multiple Scores
Footballguy
Allison Dubois, did you dream this?it would be about another team who made a mistake by drafting CrabtreeThere's no question the 49ers made a mistake here. At a minimum, they took a risk and lost, at least for now.But then this thread would be about Crabtree and another team.
CalBear
Footballguy
Demanding lots of money is a negotiating ploy. The way negotiation works is, you ask for more than you'll accept, you offer less than you'll be willing to pay, and you work out something in the middle. I'm sure there are plenty of teams which would have signed Crabtree by now; the Yorks are cheapskates and terrible managers.But then this thread would be about Crabtree and another team.
CalBear
Footballguy
The deadline for trading rights to unsigned draft picks has passed.
The trade deadline for unsigned draft picks was in August.
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Trap Play
Footballguy
Well, I am a 49ers, and I am unhappy that my team may wind up without a first round pick this year; however just because they made a mistake drafting Michael Crabtree doesn't mean they need to compound it by meeting his ridiculous demands. And, yes, hindsight being 20-20 they'd have been better off drafting virtually anyone else, but I doubt anyone could have foreseen what a colossal dumb ### this kid turned out to be.
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NeverEnough
Footballguy
I'm starting to regret dropping him...
massraider
Footballguy
Agreed. The pick amde sense where they took him, and everyone applauded it.And really agree that the 49ers can't break the slotting system to sign him. That can of worms can never be opened.
two_dollars
Footballguy
Exactly. I don't understand why the player's union isn't involved here as well. Sure they want to see Crabtree get all he can, but at the same time, he needs to be paid in line with the rest of the draft or else future drafts will be filled with Crabtrees. I hope he sits out personally.
stevegamer
Footballguy
Basically the 49ers have done everything they can in offering a deal which fits the slot, unless they want to do something wacky and offer him a short contract, or one with voidable years. The only other thing they can do is pull the deal to see if that sparks movement.
Honestly, I'd think about going the voidable years route, and then trading him, but it would likely reduce what they could get in return. He's well past the point of deserving having the offer pulled off the table on him - I don't think they've budged.
Honestly, I'd think about going the voidable years route, and then trading him, but it would likely reduce what they could get in return. He's well past the point of deserving having the offer pulled off the table on him - I don't think they've budged.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
.
cheese
Footballguy
Obviously, this thing is Crabtree's fault, but I can't agree with this excuse. I actually think someone could and at least a few teams did. Him being a colossal dumb ### is the reason he was available at 10. Mangini, among others, has essentially stated that he would've been interested in Crabtree the player if not for Crabtree the person.
RUSF18
Footballguy
BS. There have been plenty of guys who have had character issues and ended up slipping, while the number who have threatened to sit out a year is miniscule. Crabtree isn't holding out because he got drafted at 10; he wants more money because DHB got drafted at 7. If Oakland goes in any other position direction, this isn't an issue.
FavreCo
Footballguy
That's correct. Neither WR is worth a crap. The only difference right now is that DHB is getting to showcase his lack of skills.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
For one point of reference:
I just traded him away in a Zealots dynasty league for Devery Henderson & a 2010 first rounder (that'll be somewhere in the bottom 1/3 of a 12 teamer I'm guessing).
I was more than glad that I would be getting a first for him.
I just traded him away in a Zealots dynasty league for Devery Henderson & a 2010 first rounder (that'll be somewhere in the bottom 1/3 of a 12 teamer I'm guessing).
I was more than glad that I would be getting a first for him.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I read today that John Riggins sat out a year.
JoeyJoeJoeJrShabadoo
Footballguy
Bo Jackson did, albeit under different circumstances. He went 1st overall in 86, but the Bucs didn't offer him enough money and didn't want him to play baseball. The Raiders drafted him in the 7th round in 87, worked out pretty good for them.
WR wise i know mike williams was forced to sit out a year because the NCAA ruled him to be ineligible ... so he sat a year, and re-entered the draft.... we know what happend with him...
Darker Knight
Footballguy
Crabtree is a total moron for holding out.......but to say he is not worth a crap as a WR shows how little you know about football.....FavreCo said:
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3 hour lunch
Footballguy
Crabtree just now on ESPNews, "asking" Lou Holtz a question: "What should a player do when dealing with an agent?".
Maybe, overrule his decision?
Maybe, overrule his decision?
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think that was an old comment (or put out of context) if I am not mistaken. Can anyone confirm that was recent?Crabtree just now on ESPNews, "asking" Lou Holtz a question: "What should a player do when dealing with an agent?".
Not to change the subject, but Bo's holdout in 86 had nothing to do with money. The Bucs ruined his last year of NCAA baseball eligibility. Bo told them that he would never play for them because of it and not to draft him.As to Crabtree... everything that could be said has already been. This kid is losing a ton of money.
goldfinger
Footballguy
Kelly Stouffer sat out the '87 season for the St. Louis Cardinals after they drafted him 6th overall. He never played with them and they traded his rights to Seattle the next year.
Twilight
Footballguy
From Maiocco:Is this a sign that Crabtree does not agree with agent Eugene Parker's handling of the contract situation with the 49ers?I think that was an old comment (or put out of context) if I am not mistaken. Can anyone confirm that was recent?Crabtree just now on ESPNews, "asking" Lou Holtz a question: "What should a player do when dealing with an agent?".
The answer: No.
Through video evidence, it appears the segment for the "Ask Dr. Lou" segment was taped before the draft during his visit to the ESPN studios in Bristol, Conn. Notice in this pre-draft segment that Crabtree - a man you won't see wearing the same threads twice - is wearing the same Ralph Lauren Polo shirt and the same watch.
Here's the link to the
.And here's the link to "Ask Dr. Lou," which aired Thursday night at halftime of the Miami-Georgia Tech.
In other words, that segment with Crabtree appears to be taped five months ago.
FavreCo
Footballguy
See me in 3 years when Crabtree has busted out of the NFL. You won't be anywhere to be found either.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
From today's Chicago Tribune on this very subject:Kelly Stouffer knows what that's like. Twenty-two years ago, he was the sixth pick by the then- St. Louis Cardinals, who made the Colorado State standout the second quarterback selected -- sandwiched between No. 1 Vinny Testaverde and No. 13 Chris Miller.
It was 1987, the year before the Cardinals relocated to Arizona, and Stouffer said the organization had a reputation for fighting for every penny in its negotiations.
"My agent called me and said it's kind of good news, bad news," Stouffer recalled this week in a phone interview from his home in Rushville, Neb. " 'You're in an elite class, being chosen in the first round where you were. But the bad news is, with St. Louis, it's going to be a bumpy ride.' "
Far bumpier than Stouffer ever dreamed. He said the Cardinals never made him a fair offer, never even matching the deal the Falcons gave Miller, taken seven spots later.
"I quickly got indoctrinated into the business of the NFL," said Stouffer, now a college football analyst for Versus. "At times it seemed like the negotiating arm of the Cardinals felt like I was a kid sitting in a cornfield in Nebraska that didn't know any better."
In a written statement to the Los Angeles Times, the Cardinals said: "Needless to say, the team has a much different recollection of the events of 22 years ago. From our side, it was clear that Stouffer was not getting the best advice. In fact he was represented by an agent ( Mike Blatt) who a short time later was arrested and tried for the murder of a rival business associate.
"There were a lot of bizarre elements to it, but suffice to say that if we could do it over, we certainly would have selected someone other than Kelly Stouffer with that pick."
(Blatt, who spent 33 months in jail, was freed after judges declared consecutive mistrials.)
After the season -- and before the next draft -- Stouffer's rights were traded to the Seahawks, who signed him. So Stouffer didn't join the rare club of NFL players drafted twice, which includes running back Bo Jackson and quarterback Craig Erickson.
Stouffer might not know the specific details of Crabtree's negotiations, but he knows precisely how it feels to watch a rookie season slipping away. He also knows the public stigma of holding out.
"It's hard to know what's true in the end because there are only a couple of parties involved," he said. "I know from the Cardinals' standpoint, they were putting a lot of things out there that were out-and-out lies. Other than refuting them as best we could by talking to reporters, you can't really do anything about the misconceptions."
About the Crabtree situation, this much we know: The 49ers hold his rights until the day of the 2010 draft, meaning he cannot work out for other teams -- or even talk to them -- beforehand or participate in the scouting combine. Also, if he doesn't sign a deal by the Nov. 17 deadline, his 2009 season is done.
Full article here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,2705734.story
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JimBob2232
Footballguy
Disagree. If all other first rounders demaned to get money 5-7 slots above them...they all would have signed, because thats where they would have been sloted!
salmonstud
Footballguy
Maybe Oakland should have used the Crabtree argument when dealing with Heyward. Hey....Crabtree is better than you are and he was drafted at #10 so we want to pay you like the 10th slot generally is paid. (sarcasm).
Trig2U
Footballguy
You really have to wonder. Is it the brain trust advising this kid that's leading him over the cliff? Or is it Crabtree himself?
Could be both. Mangini was apparently turned off by his "world-revolves-around-me" attitude. The Rams reportedly nixed him for being a Diva, and even the Raiders figured he was too much hassle to be bothered.
In any case, he's the last unsigned draft pick remaining, and the idea that the 49ers are going to cave in at this point is laughable... a total pipe dream. Fuggetaboudit.
If Crabtree doesn't wake up and smell the coffee, and/or fire all of these clueless leeches who he's paying to destroy his career, not only does he lose out on the $16 million guaranteed money he was offered weeks ago by the 49ers, he delays going into free agency (where the "real" money is) by a full season. That would likely be a *very* expensive mistake.
And obviously if he opts to go back into the draft in 2010 he'll be a total wild-card, a holdout with a proven bad attitude who hasn't played competitive football for a full year. Maybe he moves up a slot or two and gets that Darrius Heyward-Bey money he thinks he deserves, but it's every bit as likely he falls a few slots. Maybe more than a few.
He's basically useless in terms of the 2009 season, and he's almost certainly flushed millions of dollars down the toilet.
Tsk, tsk...
Just goes to show ya, it doesn't always pay to be a primadonna #######.
Could be both. Mangini was apparently turned off by his "world-revolves-around-me" attitude. The Rams reportedly nixed him for being a Diva, and even the Raiders figured he was too much hassle to be bothered.
In any case, he's the last unsigned draft pick remaining, and the idea that the 49ers are going to cave in at this point is laughable... a total pipe dream. Fuggetaboudit.
If Crabtree doesn't wake up and smell the coffee, and/or fire all of these clueless leeches who he's paying to destroy his career, not only does he lose out on the $16 million guaranteed money he was offered weeks ago by the 49ers, he delays going into free agency (where the "real" money is) by a full season. That would likely be a *very* expensive mistake.
And obviously if he opts to go back into the draft in 2010 he'll be a total wild-card, a holdout with a proven bad attitude who hasn't played competitive football for a full year. Maybe he moves up a slot or two and gets that Darrius Heyward-Bey money he thinks he deserves, but it's every bit as likely he falls a few slots. Maybe more than a few.
He's basically useless in terms of the 2009 season, and he's almost certainly flushed millions of dollars down the toilet.
Tsk, tsk...
Just goes to show ya, it doesn't always pay to be a primadonna #######.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
A few slots? Try a few ROUNDS. Todd McShay was saying he wouldn't be surprised if Crabtree went in the 3rd round next year. For those of us who get up and go to work every morning... those of us who would KILL to have the talent this kid has, I hope he rots in his recliner and never steps foot on an NFL field.
Why is is that athletes who bargain aggressively are viewed as miscreants? I don't disagree that he's making a boneheaded move, but why all the vitriol?
The whole NFL system is stacked in the owners' favor--athletes have to work without pay for three-four years to earn the right to work(college diploma... yeah right, lol. That criminology/socialogy/communications/underwater basketweaving degree is totally worth it compared to what minor league baseball players sign for) and then they are restricted from offering their services on the open market(where, believe it or not, competition would drive up their pay). Pardon me if I can't find any anger for some guy trying to earn an extra buck.
The whole NFL system is stacked in the owners' favor--athletes have to work without pay for three-four years to earn the right to work(college diploma... yeah right, lol. That criminology/socialogy/communications/underwater basketweaving degree is totally worth it compared to what minor league baseball players sign for) and then they are restricted from offering their services on the open market(where, believe it or not, competition would drive up their pay). Pardon me if I can't find any anger for some guy trying to earn an extra buck.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
because at this point it reflects him as a person and as a teammate. it no longer is about bargaining and haggling - its about who he is to the core and people are finding out they don't like who Crabtree is and THAT seperates it from simple dealings and trying to get a bit morehe's a rookie - he's proved nothing and has done nothing yet
The first couple of weeks can't be helping the negotiations. On one hand, the Niners are seeing that they don't need him to make a playoff push this year. On the other, Crabtree probably can't help but notice that the team has some receiving talent that they are failing to utilize because of the offensive scheme, which would affect his ability to hit some of his incentives when he does sign. Would Crabtree get more than 2-3 targets a game at this point? Unlikely, although the Niners will inevitably have to open the offense up at some point this season.
